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I'm libertarian, but you may not believe it.

Otis Mayfield

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I've always liked books.
 
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Seymour Flops

Seymour Flops

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I'm not a Libertarian, but I do think the two parties are ridiculous.

What I do like is Proportional Representation. The Libertarians should push PR. It'd allow for Libertarians to vote Libertarians without fear that it would lead to a party they don't like winning.
Yes, I agree about proportional representation. Not only to allow smaller parties some influence, but I have to think our politics would be less divisive if we weren't expected ever four years to put all of our political loyalty to the nom of one party or another.
 

Death Angel

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Yes, I agree about proportional representation. Not only to allow smaller parties some influence, but I have to think our politics would be less divisive if we weren't expected ever four years to put all of our political loyalty to the nom of one party or another.
You have MANY "3rd parties from which to choose. Whose fault is it libertarians traditionally get 1% of the vote?

Donald Trump was a true independent candidate and look how the enemies of freedom turned on him.
 
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Seymour Flops

Seymour Flops

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You have MANY "3rd parties from which to choose. Whose fault is it libertarians traditionally get 1% of the vote?
Libertarians. Freedom should be an easy sale in the United States, but somehow we can't sell ice water on the equator.
Donald Trump was a true independent candidate and look how the enemies of freedom turned on him.
I wonder how he would have done as a non-twoparties candidate, as Ross Perot and Teddy Roosevelt tried. His campaign seemed to consist of exciting as many populist voters to vote instead of staying home, while appealing to the Republican base. He got an incredible number of popular votes both elections via that method, only losing when Biden got an even more incredible number of votes.

More votes than Obama got.

Really, really incredible . . .
 

DudleySmith

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As with ALL political blanket labeling, a libertarian is far from being any type of one-size-fits-all. I don’t understand why so many posters keep posting falsehoods about that.

Yes, it's a meaningless term, deliberately so really, so why use it?
 

miketex

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Hello.
 

ClaireH

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Yes, it's a meaningless term, deliberately so really, so why use it?
Well in my opinion Dudley, all political labels fail equally. It matters not about the numbers behind each political label when the label itself does not define the particulars from one person to another. Surely you know many individuals, and let’s go with Republicans….surely you know several registered Republicans who hold differing viewpoints regarding right versus left political issues compared to another. I know many people who are self labeled Republicans yet they hold opposing viewpoints. For instance, you can have a Republican who is 100 percent against abortion while another registered Republican supports it for certain instances. You have another Republican in favor of gay marriage and another Republican who is absolutely against it. You can see my point.

So don’t be too quick to put us libertarians under the bus due to having different mindsets, we (almost all I’d even wager) don’t like that kind of stuff in the first place! lol

On a serious aside, I look for a variety of self-labeled libertarians and independent unaffiliated types to unite on a united platform. I hope to live it or at least see having a third-party candidate break the ice by winning. That will likely happen first imo.

I do not agree with your interpretation that the libertarian term is “meaningless”. It takes getting to know an individual, one by one, to get to the real truth and that holds for all political labels.
 

Death Angel

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Libertarians. Freedom should be an easy sale in the United States, but somehow we can't sell ice water on the equator.

I wonder how he would have done as a non-twoparties candidate, as Ross Perot and Teddy Roosevelt tried. His campaign seemed to consist of exciting as many populist voters to vote instead of staying home, while appealing to the Republican base. He got an incredible number of popular votes both elections via that method, only losing when Biden got an even more incredible number of votes.

More votes than Obama got.

Really, really incredible . . .
Democrat Party needs to be disbanded. Well do that starting in 2022
 

San Souci

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I love to ridicule the flawed thinking of both of the twoparties. So, if you are a Democrat, you will probably think me a Trumper. If you are a Trumper, you will probably accuse me of being a Trump-bashing liberal. If you are a never-Trumper Republican/conservative, you will probably think I'm a pro-Trump liberal. Or something.

Libertarianism is on life support at the moment, due to COVID being used as an excuse for authoritarianism. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I am fully vaxxed and I'll get the booster when I can. But I'm an anti-vaxx mandate guy, so that may get some of you torqued up.

Anyway, it's all in good fun for me. I don't expect to change the world on a message board, so I don't get in a twist about it. Look forward to friendly (hopefully) debates with you all.
I am a Randite. I hate BOTH parties. The Democrats are Rapacious and Venal. The Repubs are lazy and cowardly.
 

flacaltenn

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I love to ridicule the flawed thinking of both of the twoparties. So, if you are a Democrat, you will probably think me a Trumper. If you are a Trumper, you will probably accuse me of being a Trump-bashing liberal. If you are a never-Trumper Republican/conservative, you will probably think I'm a pro-Trump liberal. Or something.

Libertarianism is on life support at the moment, due to COVID being used as an excuse for authoritarianism. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I am fully vaxxed and I'll get the booster when I can. But I'm an anti-vaxx mandate guy, so that may get some of you torqued up.

Anyway, it's all in good fun for me. I don't expect to change the world on a message board, so I don't get in a twist about it. Look forward to friendly (hopefully) debates with you all.

Nice to have a fellow Libertarian joining up.. It's the only place in the political spectrum for old fashioned "Liberals" to exist anymore. Not that "old fashioned' liberals can get elected -- lol.. But we've been RIGHT on darn near every issue for the past 30 or 40 years.. Just had to wait for the country to catch up with us..

:biggrin:
 

flacaltenn

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My guess is he'll be a leftist "libertarian " of the golfing gator variety. Just another Democrat pawn. Hope he proves me wrong

We're a "big tent" party.. Nothing wrong with that. When all those "anarchists" who THINK they're Libertarian try to hijack conventions -- we just knock them to the back of the room. :hyper:

We're NOT afraid of debate and discussion like some other parties we know. :dev3:

And that's what we're GOOD at. We SUCK at actually winning elections. But its our institutions like Institute for Justice and Cato and Reason that MAKE REAL differences in winning on policy and law/justice issues.

Which is why I've dedicated my time now to training Independents for public office. Because it's much easier for "true liberals" to run as Independents than drag an entire party and platform around with them. Also the LAWS for running are easy peasy compared to party qualifications.
 
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Dogmaphobe

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Nice to have a fellow Libertarian joining up.. It's the only place in the political spectrum for old fashioned "Liberals" to exist anymore. Not that "old fashioned' liberals can get elected -- lol.. But we've been RIGHT on darn near every issue for the past 30 or 40 years.. Just had to wait for the country to catch up with us..

:biggrin:

What has happened over the years is this:

Identity politics has gradually replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left. As it has become more entrenched, it has become more authoritarian. The left no longer evaluates the world by the quality of one's character, but by the color of their skin, and no longer says "do your own thing", but "Do OUR thing, OR ELSE".

Since Liberalism as a political philosophy is all about egalitarianism, the rigid system of privilege created by identity politics (that privilege being based upon imaginary victimhood) is in diametric opposition. Also, since liberalism is about maximizing personal choice short of harming others and the left is now all about establishing extreme limitations on personal choice on one hand while allowing blatant harm as long as it serves their political purpose on another, it is again diametrically opposed to liberalism.
 

Donald H

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I love to ridicule the flawed thinking of both of the twoparties. So, if you are a Democrat, you will probably think me a Trumper. If you are a Trumper, you will probably accuse me of being a Trump-bashing liberal. If you are a never-Trumper Republican/conservative, you will probably think I'm a pro-Trump liberal. Or something.

Libertarianism is on life support at the moment, due to COVID being used as an excuse for authoritarianism. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I am fully vaxxed and I'll get the booster when I can. But I'm an anti-vaxx mandate guy, so that may get some of you torqued up.

Anyway, it's all in good fun for me. I don't expect to change the world on a message board, so I don't get in a twist about it. Look forward to friendly (hopefully) debates with you all.
I would call you a smart American who understands that the two parties are incapable of helping you and the system must be broken and reformed.
 

dblack

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Donald H

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We're a "big tent" party.. Nothing wrong with that. When all those "anarchists" who THINK they're Libertarian try to hijack conventions -- we just knock them to the back of the room. :hyper:

We're NOT afraid of debate and discussion like some other parties we know. :dev3:

And that's what we're GOOD at. We SUCK at actually winning elections. But its our institutions like Institute for Justice and Cato and Reason that MAKE REAL differences in winning on policy and law/justice issues.

Which is why I've dedicated my time now to training Independents for public office. Because it's much easier for "true liberals" to run as Independents than drag an entire party and platform around with them. Also the LAWS for running are easy peasy compared to party qualifications.
most important is that you're grasping at a solution that lies outside of the two major parties!

Libertarianism means many different things to so many different people and so the mention of it leaves others bewildered as to what you mean to promote.

I've heard lots of different versions but I can't ever remember hearing anything that could work in a large civilized country for very long. In general, the libertarian seems to be wanting to live in isolation with rights that are impossible to be granted because of the greater demands of the many.

I'm always interested in hearing something about the libertarian agenda that could be workable and possible? Where would the population start with ideas to solve the problems in America?
 

dblack

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Whose fault is it libertarians traditionally get 1% of the vote?
The morons who claim to support libertarian ideals but keep voting for the two-party shitshow anyway.
 

Donald H

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The morons who claim to support libertarian ideals but keep voting for the two-party shitshow anyway.
They're at least searching for 'another' solultion. If they can make their agenda suitable and rational enough to draw a crowd then they'll be on their way to finding real freedom.
 

dblack

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They're at least searching for 'another' solultion. If they can make their agenda suitable and rational enough to draw a crowd then they'll be on their way to finding real freedom.
We won't get anywhere until the voting system is changed, or people finally give up their lesser-of-two-evils delusion. As long as people are voting out of fear, instead of for the candidate the think is the best, it doesn't really matter what agenda a third party has.
 

BackAgain

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In a world where our Republic has had a two major Party hold on power for a long time, it is an inconvenient truth that 3rd Parties have very little to no chance of obtaining power. Theoretically, this can be changed. But if we’re talking about Presidential candidates, the Libertarian Party is at an even bigger disadvantage. They have awful candidates who “run” nearly invisible campaigns. The Libertarian Party is also suffering from in-fighting which further dilutes their electability.

They need to become internally cohesive and not view their internal differences as roadblocks. They need to start running more local campaigns. Work it up. But start locally and inform the electorate.
 

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