Ignorant Homophobes fined $13,000 for refusing to host wedding

[bodecea]

Stupid point until bigots are declared a protected class.

Who gets to decide who is a protected class? The whole concept of a protected class is a shit on the principles of equality.

Everyone should be protected from the government, but people shouldn't have the government protect their feewings.

Then push to have all PA (public accommodation) laws repealed.

PA's have their place in things like the hotel industry, travel services, actual public spaces, and other things relevant to necessities and interstate commerce. what has to be repealed is calling everything a public accommodation.

Ok....so, state PA (public accommodation) laws are written with those express differences spelled out?

they are interpreted by busy body judges to allow their pet social classes to force others to bend to their will. Nothing more, nothing less.

Translation: a judge upheld something I don't like and didn't uphold something I liked. Such is the way of justice......not everyone is pleased 100% of the time.

 

[mudwhistle]

NY Farm That Refused To Host Lesbian Wedding Fined $13,000

Liberty Ridge Farm's owners, citing constitutional rights to free speech and religious freedom, have appealed the August ruling by the Division of Human Rights that they violated state anti-discrimination law.

Their attorney said Robert and Cynthia Gifford paid the $10,000 state civil penalty and $1,500 each to Melisa and Jennie McCarthy, whose 2013 wedding they declined to host. The Giffords testified last year that in their Christian beliefs, marriage is between a man and a woman, and the ceremonies are held at their home, a private space where their own rights should be determinate.

Good!

We hurt them in the pocketbook and we shame them in the media.

There is a dark and twisted version of Christianity being practiced in the U.S. They throw love and tolerance over for fear and ignorance, clinging to one archaic hebrew tribal law.

Evil like gay will one day say"oops, we goofed." Then they will cry like the babies they are acting like.

So anyone who wants to be treated equally under the law is "crying like a baby"? How would you react if you went to a business and they informed you that you were not going to be served because you were a Christian even tho they serve everyone else? Would you go to the state business bureau, crying like a baby?

1. for Christians and Constitutionalists who believe the ACA violates beliefs in Constitutional limits on govt
and mandates a political belief in health care as a right forced through govt at the expense of due process and liberty,
YES there has been a national outcry over that violation and exclusion/penalty that discriminates on the basis of creed

2. for Christians who are banned from sharing prayer or scripture as an expression of free speech
YES there is protest that public schools USE public funds so should accommodate the public equally

For businesses,
the Christians I know are happy to take their business to places that deserve it.

the people I see suing over this
are trying to make a social or political statement.

same as atheists suing over crosses or pledges
as opposed to those who just live and let live and don't sue over this.

Frankly I believe the ACA mandates are the worst infringement on religious freedom
by the federal govt establishing a national belief in the right to health care forced on taxpayers under fear of penalty.

that is more frightening that local battles over
school prayers and crosses on public property.

The gay marriage issue is somewhere in between,
where it could be resolved locally but instead it is affecting whole states.

The ACA violations are more serious because that is the equivalent of establishing
a political belief for the entire nation through Congress, and enforcing fines if this belief is not practiced as mandated!

I wouldn't mind ACA going away if EVERYONE who refused to get health care signed a contract stating that they would be paying their own health bills out of pocket and it would never ever fall upon the American taxpayer. That included ER visits, etc. Can't pay? Too bad for you.

The point of Obamacare is to cut down on people getting what the framers called unnecessary treatment through extremely high deductibles. As J. Gruber stated, if our out of pocket expenses go up that will curb treatment costs. So the price of healthcare goes up instead of down, exposing another lie by the Obama Administration. But you don't care if he's giving you the shaft cuz he loves the geys.

 

[mudwhistle]

Segregationists, you mean liberals?

Most of them we're Democrats.

Segregationists, Mr Non Seqitur.

Yup. Democrats. George Wallace and the like.

Now blacks are talking about it more than anyone. Bet you could include protesters in Ferguson in that group.

I always get a tickle when someone can't, or won't grasp the difference between Yellow Dog Democrats, Dixiecrats, and post Reagan era Democrats.

They always wind up looking silly, unless they're just trolling after too many adult beverages, or too much Fox News/Rush, in the morning

You want to segregate them but the point is they were Democrats. The only reason we passed a civil rights bill was because of Republicans. Same goes for the Emancipation Proclamation.

Them's the facts.

Read it and weep.

Aaaaand I am wasting my time. Have a nice day, and feel free to think you won the argument.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

 

[bodecea]

NY Farm That Refused To Host Lesbian Wedding Fined $13,000




Good!

We hurt them in the pocketbook and we shame them in the media.

There is a dark and twisted version of Christianity being practiced in the U.S. They throw love and tolerance over for fear and ignorance, clinging to one archaic hebrew tribal law.

Evil like gay will one day say"oops, we goofed." Then they will cry like the babies they are acting like.

So anyone who wants to be treated equally under the law is "crying like a baby"? How would you react if you went to a business and they informed you that you were not going to be served because you were a Christian even tho they serve everyone else? Would you go to the state business bureau, crying like a baby?

1. for Christians and Constitutionalists who believe the ACA violates beliefs in Constitutional limits on govt
and mandates a political belief in health care as a right forced through govt at the expense of due process and liberty,
YES there has been a national outcry over that violation and exclusion/penalty that discriminates on the basis of creed

2. for Christians who are banned from sharing prayer or scripture as an expression of free speech
YES there is protest that public schools USE public funds so should accommodate the public equally

For businesses,
the Christians I know are happy to take their business to places that deserve it.

the people I see suing over this
are trying to make a social or political statement.

same as atheists suing over crosses or pledges
as opposed to those who just live and let live and don't sue over this.

Frankly I believe the ACA mandates are the worst infringement on religious freedom
by the federal govt establishing a national belief in the right to health care forced on taxpayers under fear of penalty.

that is more frightening that local battles over
school prayers and crosses on public property.

The gay marriage issue is somewhere in between,
where it could be resolved locally but instead it is affecting whole states.

The ACA violations are more serious because that is the equivalent of establishing
a political belief for the entire nation through Congress, and enforcing fines if this belief is not practiced as mandated!

I wouldn't mind ACA going away if EVERYONE who refused to get health care signed a contract stating that they would be paying their own health bills out of pocket and it would never ever fall upon the American taxpayer. That included ER visits, etc. Can't pay? Too bad for you.

The point of Obamacare is to cut down on people getting what the framers called unnecessary treatment through extremely high deductibles. As J. Gruber stated, if our out of pocket expenses go up that will curb treatment costs. So the price of healthcare goes up instead of down, exposing another lie by the Obama Administration. But you don't care if he's giving you the shaft cuz he loves the geys.

I'm not getting the shaft at all. Sad to hear that you are. My health care hasn't changed in the least. Sad to hear that yours has.

 

[mudwhistle]

Evil like gay will one day say"oops, we goofed." Then they will cry like the babies they are acting like.

So anyone who wants to be treated equally under the law is "crying like a baby"? How would you react if you went to a business and they informed you that you were not going to be served because you were a Christian even tho they serve everyone else? Would you go to the state business bureau, crying like a baby?

1. for Christians and Constitutionalists who believe the ACA violates beliefs in Constitutional limits on govt
and mandates a political belief in health care as a right forced through govt at the expense of due process and liberty,
YES there has been a national outcry over that violation and exclusion/penalty that discriminates on the basis of creed

2. for Christians who are banned from sharing prayer or scripture as an expression of free speech
YES there is protest that public schools USE public funds so should accommodate the public equally

For businesses,
the Christians I know are happy to take their business to places that deserve it.

the people I see suing over this
are trying to make a social or political statement.

same as atheists suing over crosses or pledges
as opposed to those who just live and let live and don't sue over this.

Frankly I believe the ACA mandates are the worst infringement on religious freedom
by the federal govt establishing a national belief in the right to health care forced on taxpayers under fear of penalty.

that is more frightening that local battles over
school prayers and crosses on public property.

The gay marriage issue is somewhere in between,
where it could be resolved locally but instead it is affecting whole states.

The ACA violations are more serious because that is the equivalent of establishing
a political belief for the entire nation through Congress, and enforcing fines if this belief is not practiced as mandated!

I wouldn't mind ACA going away if EVERYONE who refused to get health care signed a contract stating that they would be paying their own health bills out of pocket and it would never ever fall upon the American taxpayer. That included ER visits, etc. Can't pay? Too bad for you.

The point of Obamacare is to cut down on people getting what the framers called unnecessary treatment through extremely high deductibles. As J. Gruber stated, if our out of pocket expenses go up that will curb treatment costs. So the price of healthcare goes up instead of down, exposing another lie by the Obama Administration. But you don't care if he's giving you the shaft cuz he loves the geys.

I'm not getting the shaft at all. Sad to hear that you are. My health care hasn't changed in the least. Sad to hear that yours has.

My premiums have doubled and my deductibles have gone up. Tricare hasn't changed, they cover practically nothing.

 

[Gracie]

[QUOTE="bodecea]

That doesn't make it right....not really sure what you think that proves.
[/quote]

Ding ding ding. Which also applies for businesses being FORCED to serve an action against their own beliefs.

 

[Gracie]

"We have the right to refuse service to anyone". I used it in my shop. Maybe things have changed. If so...I feel sorry for business owners.

If you had used that sign to refuse service to people based on race or religion, you'd have been breaking the law. Any business doing that would have been and still would be breaking the law.

I didn't use it against race or religion. I used it against belligerent, obnoxious assholes regardless of their faith or skin color. I own the business. I pay the taxes. I pay the rent. I have a right on who I choose to sell to or buy from. Come in drunk, loaded, screaming brats, nastiness, shoving people, and overall being an asshole, OUT you go.

 

[mudwhistle]

Evil like gay will one day say"oops, we goofed." Then they will cry like the babies they are acting like.

So anyone who wants to be treated equally under the law is "crying like a baby"? How would you react if you went to a business and they informed you that you were not going to be served because you were a Christian even tho they serve everyone else? Would you go to the state business bureau, crying like a baby?

1. for Christians and Constitutionalists who believe the ACA violates beliefs in Constitutional limits on govt
and mandates a political belief in health care as a right forced through govt at the expense of due process and liberty,
YES there has been a national outcry over that violation and exclusion/penalty that discriminates on the basis of creed

2. for Christians who are banned from sharing prayer or scripture as an expression of free speech
YES there is protest that public schools USE public funds so should accommodate the public equally

For businesses,
the Christians I know are happy to take their business to places that deserve it.

the people I see suing over this
are trying to make a social or political statement.

same as atheists suing over crosses or pledges
as opposed to those who just live and let live and don't sue over this.

Frankly I believe the ACA mandates are the worst infringement on religious freedom
by the federal govt establishing a national belief in the right to health care forced on taxpayers under fear of penalty.

that is more frightening that local battles over
school prayers and crosses on public property.

The gay marriage issue is somewhere in between,
where it could be resolved locally but instead it is affecting whole states.

The ACA violations are more serious because that is the equivalent of establishing
a political belief for the entire nation through Congress, and enforcing fines if this belief is not practiced as mandated!

I wouldn't mind ACA going away if EVERYONE who refused to get health care signed a contract stating that they would be paying their own health bills out of pocket and it would never ever fall upon the American taxpayer. That included ER visits, etc. Can't pay? Too bad for you.

The point of Obamacare is to cut down on people getting what the framers called unnecessary treatment through extremely high deductibles. As J. Gruber stated, if our out of pocket expenses go up that will curb treatment costs. So the price of healthcare goes up instead of down, exposing another lie by the Obama Administration. But you don't care if he's giving you the shaft cuz he loves the geys.

I'm not getting the shaft at all. Sad to hear that you are. My health care hasn't changed in the least. Sad to hear that yours has.

Personally I think you're lying, because every policy had to change to adhere to new ACA guidelines.

 

[Nosmo King]

Good Lord but the Right Wing has butt hurt! And the weird, but strangely usual thing about it is, they don't know the reason why. They wrap themselves in obfuscations like "religious freedom" and "private property rights". What a load of crap!

Your religion, if it's warped enough to condone hate over love, intolerance over community, fear over knowledge, provides NO COVER to continue to treat fellow Americas as second class citizens. Your private property, if it's a public business, is not cover for discrimination, as proved in the 1950s and 60s during the Civil Rights movement.

Own your hatred, Conservatives! We know you love to hate and hate those who you see as lesser than your deluded selves. Just stop throwing faux patriotic smokescreens and claiming rights to discriminate that just are not there.

 

[AmericanFirst]

What happened to religious freedom? It's as if the Nazi party has taken over. Spying on American citizens, using bureaucratic tricks to punish enemies of the state and now fining innocent people for refusing to cater to the homosexual agenda.

Can you please clearly state what is it that you are not religiously allowed to do now?

Pray in schools, Ten Commandments posted in public, in God we trust on money. But it is alright to force a business to cater to gays because they have this delusion they need to announce ther sexuall deviancy and think they need special treatment. I would not pay the fine!

 

[AmericanFirst]

Good Lord but the Right Wing has butt hurt! And the weird, but strangely usual thing about it is, they don't know the reason why. They wrap themselves in obfuscations like "religious freedom" and "private property rights". What a load of crap!

Your religion, if it's warped enough to condone hate over love, intolerance over community, fear over knowledge, provides NO COVER to continue to treat fellow Americas as second class citizens. Your private property, if it's a public business, is not cover for discrimination, as proved in the 1950s and 60s during the Civil Rights movement.

Own your hatred, Conservatives! We know you love to hate and hate those who you see as lesser than your deluded selves. Just stop throwing faux patriotic smokescreens and claiming rights to discriminate that just are not there.

You are full of..,.,and have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[bodecea]

So anyone who wants to be treated equally under the law is "crying like a baby"? How would you react if you went to a business and they informed you that you were not going to be served because you were a Christian even tho they serve everyone else? Would you go to the state business bureau, crying like a baby?

1. for Christians and Constitutionalists who believe the ACA violates beliefs in Constitutional limits on govt
and mandates a political belief in health care as a right forced through govt at the expense of due process and liberty,
YES there has been a national outcry over that violation and exclusion/penalty that discriminates on the basis of creed

2. for Christians who are banned from sharing prayer or scripture as an expression of free speech
YES there is protest that public schools USE public funds so should accommodate the public equally

For businesses,
the Christians I know are happy to take their business to places that deserve it.

the people I see suing over this
are trying to make a social or political statement.

same as atheists suing over crosses or pledges
as opposed to those who just live and let live and don't sue over this.

Frankly I believe the ACA mandates are the worst infringement on religious freedom
by the federal govt establishing a national belief in the right to health care forced on taxpayers under fear of penalty.

that is more frightening that local battles over
school prayers and crosses on public property.

The gay marriage issue is somewhere in between,
where it could be resolved locally but instead it is affecting whole states.

The ACA violations are more serious because that is the equivalent of establishing
a political belief for the entire nation through Congress, and enforcing fines if this belief is not practiced as mandated!

I wouldn't mind ACA going away if EVERYONE who refused to get health care signed a contract stating that they would be paying their own health bills out of pocket and it would never ever fall upon the American taxpayer. That included ER visits, etc. Can't pay? Too bad for you.

The point of Obamacare is to cut down on people getting what the framers called unnecessary treatment through extremely high deductibles. As J. Gruber stated, if our out of pocket expenses go up that will curb treatment costs. So the price of healthcare goes up instead of down, exposing another lie by the Obama Administration. But you don't care if he's giving you the shaft cuz he loves the geys.

I'm not getting the shaft at all. Sad to hear that you are. My health care hasn't changed in the least. Sad to hear that yours has.

My premiums have doubled and my deductibles have gone up. Tricare hasn't changed, they cover practically nothing.

Neither I or my family seems to be having any issues with Tricare Prime.

 

[bodecea]

[QUOTE="bodecea]

That doesn't make it right....not really sure what you think that proves.

Ding ding ding. Which also applies for businesses being FORCED to serve an action against their own beliefs.

I would say that businesses that are in a position to go against their religious belief should be picking another line of work....like taxi drivers who, for religious reasons, want to pick and choose who they serve.

 

[bodecea]

"We have the right to refuse service to anyone". I used it in my shop. Maybe things have changed. If so...I feel sorry for business owners.

If you had used that sign to refuse service to people based on race or religion, you'd have been breaking the law. Any business doing that would have been and still would be breaking the law.

I didn't use it against race or religion. I used it against belligerent, obnoxious assholes regardless of their faith or skin color. I own the business. I pay the taxes. I pay the rent. I have a right on who I choose to sell to or buy from. Come in drunk, loaded, screaming brats, nastiness, shoving people, and overall being an asshole, OUT you go.

But....you are not discriminating against a group of law-abiding, tax-paying citizens because of WHO THEY ARE....you are discriminating against disruptive customers....some black, some white, some male, some female, some gay, some straight, etc......right? Was the gay couple disruptive in the OP case?

 

[bodecea]

So anyone who wants to be treated equally under the law is "crying like a baby"? How would you react if you went to a business and they informed you that you were not going to be served because you were a Christian even tho they serve everyone else? Would you go to the state business bureau, crying like a baby?

1. for Christians and Constitutionalists who believe the ACA violates beliefs in Constitutional limits on govt
and mandates a political belief in health care as a right forced through govt at the expense of due process and liberty,
YES there has been a national outcry over that violation and exclusion/penalty that discriminates on the basis of creed

2. for Christians who are banned from sharing prayer or scripture as an expression of free speech
YES there is protest that public schools USE public funds so should accommodate the public equally

For businesses,
the Christians I know are happy to take their business to places that deserve it.

the people I see suing over this
are trying to make a social or political statement.

same as atheists suing over crosses or pledges
as opposed to those who just live and let live and don't sue over this.

Frankly I believe the ACA mandates are the worst infringement on religious freedom
by the federal govt establishing a national belief in the right to health care forced on taxpayers under fear of penalty.

that is more frightening that local battles over
school prayers and crosses on public property.

The gay marriage issue is somewhere in between,
where it could be resolved locally but instead it is affecting whole states.

The ACA violations are more serious because that is the equivalent of establishing
a political belief for the entire nation through Congress, and enforcing fines if this belief is not practiced as mandated!

I wouldn't mind ACA going away if EVERYONE who refused to get health care signed a contract stating that they would be paying their own health bills out of pocket and it would never ever fall upon the American taxpayer. That included ER visits, etc. Can't pay? Too bad for you.

The point of Obamacare is to cut down on people getting what the framers called unnecessary treatment through extremely high deductibles. As J. Gruber stated, if our out of pocket expenses go up that will curb treatment costs. So the price of healthcare goes up instead of down, exposing another lie by the Obama Administration. But you don't care if he's giving you the shaft cuz he loves the geys.

I'm not getting the shaft at all. Sad to hear that you are. My health care hasn't changed in the least. Sad to hear that yours has.

Personally I think you're lying, because every policy had to change to adhere to new ACA guidelines.

Well, I'm not having any problems with our TriCare Prime. I'm sorry to hear that you are having issues, tho.

 

[bodecea]

What happened to religious freedom? It's as if the Nazi party has taken over. Spying on American citizens, using bureaucratic tricks to punish enemies of the state and now fining innocent people for refusing to cater to the homosexual agenda.

Can you please clearly state what is it that you are not religiously allowed to do now?

Pray in schools,

You are still allowed to pray in school....what you are NOT allowed to do is FORCE others to pray like you.

Ten Commandments posted in public,

You are allowed to put the 10 Commandments anywhere you want to put them that belongs to you...what you are NOT allowed to do is FORCE others to pay for your 10 Commandments on public property.

in God we trust on money.

I just looked.....it's still there. But it doesn't seem to make my money any more or less valuble.

But it is alright to force a business to cater to gays

They are no more FORCED to cater to gays than they are FORCED to cater to blacks or are FORCED to cater to Muslims or FORCED to cater to handicapped people.

because they have this delusion they need to announce ther sexuall deviancy and think they need special treatment. I would not pay the fine!

I get it now....you are upset because you don't have the religious "freedom" to FORCE others to adhere to your religion.

 

[Nosmo King]

Good Lord but the Right Wing has butt hurt! And the weird, but strangely usual thing about it is, they don't know the reason why. They wrap themselves in obfuscations like "religious freedom" and "private property rights". What a load of crap!

Your religion, if it's warped enough to condone hate over love, intolerance over community, fear over knowledge, provides NO COVER to continue to treat fellow Americas as second class citizens. Your private property, if it's a public business, is not cover for discrimination, as proved in the 1950s and 60s during the Civil Rights movement.

Own your hatred, Conservatives! We know you love to hate and hate those who you see as lesser than your deluded selves. Just stop throwing faux patriotic smokescreens and claiming rights to discriminate that just are not there.

You are full of..,.,and have no clue what you are talking about.

Well argued! You made absolutely no valid points, nor any sense.

Is this the best ya got?

 

[BlackSand]

So...where is your example of any homosexuals being in a position to sue a black man's bar-b-que shack for refusal of service? How will we know if they would sue or not if we don't have examples to compare?

I didn't say they were going to sue the business ... I said they wouldn't sue the business. My point was that regardless of whether it is a business or a church ... It is the same people and same reason to deny a wedding as when they are in church.

I made the further point that they wouldn't sue the bar-b-que because it is owned by a black man. If they attempted to compare their homosexuality to the discrimination against blacks ... Well, I know the business owner and the district judge ... They would be laughed out of court.

Here ... There is no special state law for fining establishments that may deny hosting a same sex marriage. You can also post a sign here that reads ... "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone without providing any reason".

.

 

[bodecea]

So...where is your example of any homosexuals being in a position to sue a black man's bar-b-que shack for refusal of service? How will we know if they would sue or not if we don't have examples to compare?

I didn't say they were going to sue the business ... I said they wouldn't sue the business. My point was that regardless of whether it is a business or a church ... It is the same people and same reason to deny a wedding as when they are in church.

I made the further point that they wouldn't sue the bar-b-que because it is owned by a black man. If they attempted to compare their homosexuality to the discrimination against blacks ... Well, I know the business owner and the district judge ... They would be laughed out of court.

Here ... There is no special state law for fining establishments that may deny hosting a same sex marriage. You can also post a sign here that reads ... "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone without providing any reason".

.

If the business denied them service for being gay, why not?

And as for NOT suing a bar-b-que place because it's owned by a black man....what does that have to do with anything. If I walk into a business owned by ANYONE and they denied me service because I'm gay....you bet I would report it to the state business bureau.

 

[Seawytch]

B

Au contrare. Any Muslim pulling the same crap should be fined just as much.

Suuuuuuure they would.

How many gays go to a mosque to ask for a wedding and expect to leave unscathed?

Zero. They would become a statistic.

Churches and mosques aren't subject to PA laws. Stop conflating.

Bullshit.

Link.

You need a link to the 1st Amendment?

Seems like you do ... Or at least need to reexamine the part about not infringing on the ability to practice your religion.

.

Nobody is doing that. PA laws don't prevent the practice of religion.