Ignorant Homophobes fined $13,000 for refusing to host wedding

[80zephyr]

Does the will of the people include being able to pass unConstitutional laws?

Are you suggesting that laws discriminating against individuals due to their religion are Constitutional?

.

Segregationists claimed religious beliefs as did slave owners.

So what? A mistake does not mean you can now exclude every religious belief by law. That is, if the Constitution really does mean something anymore.

Mark

 

[Seawytch]

Should a business be able to provide a business service to some, but not all, law-abiding citizens due to their declared religious grounds? Under the law that has to be a clear yes or no answer.

If this was involving Muslims you guys wouldn't be hassling these folks. The only religion the left wants to mess with is Christianity.

I guess screwing over Christians is cool cuz they wouldn't become violent and blow your asses up.

Au contrare. Any Muslim pulling the same crap should be fined just as much.

Suuuuuuure they would.

How many gays go to a mosque to ask for a wedding and expect to leave unscathed?

Zero. They would become a statistic.

Sigh.....again you are referring to the equivalent to a church....a religious institution. Just like no church is required to marry anyone against that church's doctrine, same with any mosque.

HOWEVER, if a wedding catering service, or wedding location business is being owned/run by a Muslim...they too are required to follow state PA (public accommodation) laws as per their business license.


So.....how long are you going to keep throwing out religious institutions as "examples" in a case that involved a business, not a religious institution? Do you not think we can see the difference?

I keep missing the part where the 1st amendment only protects churches and clergy from government interference.

It protects freedom of religion, not freedom to be a priest, or be a church.

And yet it is churches that are not subject to PA laws. No church has ever had to marry an interracial couple, but businesses do have to serve them.

 

[mudwhistle]

1. for Christians and Constitutionalists who believe the ACA violates beliefs in Constitutional limits on govt
and mandates a political belief in health care as a right forced through govt at the expense of due process and liberty,
YES there has been a national outcry over that violation and exclusion/penalty that discriminates on the basis of creed

2. for Christians who are banned from sharing prayer or scripture as an expression of free speech
YES there is protest that public schools USE public funds so should accommodate the public equally

For businesses,
the Christians I know are happy to take their business to places that deserve it.

the people I see suing over this
are trying to make a social or political statement.

same as atheists suing over crosses or pledges
as opposed to those who just live and let live and don't sue over this.

Frankly I believe the ACA mandates are the worst infringement on religious freedom
by the federal govt establishing a national belief in the right to health care forced on taxpayers under fear of penalty.

that is more frightening that local battles over
school prayers and crosses on public property.

The gay marriage issue is somewhere in between,
where it could be resolved locally but instead it is affecting whole states.

The ACA violations are more serious because that is the equivalent of establishing
a political belief for the entire nation through Congress, and enforcing fines if this belief is not practiced as mandated!

I wouldn't mind ACA going away if EVERYONE who refused to get health care signed a contract stating that they would be paying their own health bills out of pocket and it would never ever fall upon the American taxpayer. That included ER visits, etc. Can't pay? Too bad for you.

The point of Obamacare is to cut down on people getting what the framers called unnecessary treatment through extremely high deductibles. As J. Gruber stated, if our out of pocket expenses go up that will curb treatment costs. So the price of healthcare goes up instead of down, exposing another lie by the Obama Administration. But you don't care if he's giving you the shaft cuz he loves the geys.

I'm not getting the shaft at all. Sad to hear that you are. My health care hasn't changed in the least. Sad to hear that yours has.

Personally I think you're lying, because every policy had to change to adhere to new ACA guidelines.

Well, I'm not having any problems with our TriCare Prime. I'm sorry to hear that you are having issues, tho.

1. for Christians and Constitutionalists who believe the ACA violates beliefs in Constitutional limits on govt
and mandates a political belief in health care as a right forced through govt at the expense of due process and liberty,
YES there has been a national outcry over that violation and exclusion/penalty that discriminates on the basis of creed

2. for Christians who are banned from sharing prayer or scripture as an expression of free speech
YES there is protest that public schools USE public funds so should accommodate the public equally

For businesses,
the Christians I know are happy to take their business to places that deserve it.

the people I see suing over this
are trying to make a social or political statement.

same as atheists suing over crosses or pledges
as opposed to those who just live and let live and don't sue over this.

Frankly I believe the ACA mandates are the worst infringement on religious freedom
by the federal govt establishing a national belief in the right to health care forced on taxpayers under fear of penalty.

that is more frightening that local battles over
school prayers and crosses on public property.

The gay marriage issue is somewhere in between,
where it could be resolved locally but instead it is affecting whole states.

The ACA violations are more serious because that is the equivalent of establishing
a political belief for the entire nation through Congress, and enforcing fines if this belief is not practiced as mandated!

I wouldn't mind ACA going away if EVERYONE who refused to get health care signed a contract stating that they would be paying their own health bills out of pocket and it would never ever fall upon the American taxpayer. That included ER visits, etc. Can't pay? Too bad for you.

The point of Obamacare is to cut down on people getting what the framers called unnecessary treatment through extremely high deductibles. As J. Gruber stated, if our out of pocket expenses go up that will curb treatment costs. So the price of healthcare goes up instead of down, exposing another lie by the Obama Administration. But you don't care if he's giving you the shaft cuz he loves the geys.

I'm not getting the shaft at all. Sad to hear that you are. My health care hasn't changed in the least. Sad to hear that yours has.

Personally I think you're lying, because every policy had to change to adhere to new ACA guidelines.

Well, I'm not having any problems with our TriCare Prime. I'm sorry to hear that you are having issues, tho.

1. for Christians and Constitutionalists who believe the ACA violates beliefs in Constitutional limits on govt
and mandates a political belief in health care as a right forced through govt at the expense of due process and liberty,
YES there has been a national outcry over that violation and exclusion/penalty that discriminates on the basis of creed

2. for Christians who are banned from sharing prayer or scripture as an expression of free speech
YES there is protest that public schools USE public funds so should accommodate the public equally

For businesses,
the Christians I know are happy to take their business to places that deserve it.

the people I see suing over this
are trying to make a social or political statement.

same as atheists suing over crosses or pledges
as opposed to those who just live and let live and don't sue over this.

Frankly I believe the ACA mandates are the worst infringement on religious freedom
by the federal govt establishing a national belief in the right to health care forced on taxpayers under fear of penalty.

that is more frightening that local battles over
school prayers and crosses on public property.

The gay marriage issue is somewhere in between,
where it could be resolved locally but instead it is affecting whole states.

The ACA violations are more serious because that is the equivalent of establishing
a political belief for the entire nation through Congress, and enforcing fines if this belief is not practiced as mandated!

I wouldn't mind ACA going away if EVERYONE who refused to get health care signed a contract stating that they would be paying their own health bills out of pocket and it would never ever fall upon the American taxpayer. That included ER visits, etc. Can't pay? Too bad for you.

The point of Obamacare is to cut down on people getting what the framers called unnecessary treatment through extremely high deductibles. As J. Gruber stated, if our out of pocket expenses go up that will curb treatment costs. So the price of healthcare goes up instead of down, exposing another lie by the Obama Administration. But you don't care if he's giving you the shaft cuz he loves the geys.

I'm not getting the shaft at all. Sad to hear that you are. My health care hasn't changed in the least. Sad to hear that yours has.

Personally I think you're lying, because every policy had to change to adhere to new ACA guidelines.

Well, I'm not having any problems with our TriCare Prime. I'm sorry to hear that you are having issues, tho.

1. for Christians and Constitutionalists who believe the ACA violates beliefs in Constitutional limits on govt
and mandates a political belief in health care as a right forced through govt at the expense of due process and liberty,
YES there has been a national outcry over that violation and exclusion/penalty that discriminates on the basis of creed

2. for Christians who are banned from sharing prayer or scripture as an expression of free speech
YES there is protest that public schools USE public funds so should accommodate the public equally

For businesses,
the Christians I know are happy to take their business to places that deserve it.

the people I see suing over this
are trying to make a social or political statement.

same as atheists suing over crosses or pledges
as opposed to those who just live and let live and don't sue over this.

Frankly I believe the ACA mandates are the worst infringement on religious freedom
by the federal govt establishing a national belief in the right to health care forced on taxpayers under fear of penalty.

that is more frightening that local battles over
school prayers and crosses on public property.

The gay marriage issue is somewhere in between,
where it could be resolved locally but instead it is affecting whole states.

The ACA violations are more serious because that is the equivalent of establishing
a political belief for the entire nation through Congress, and enforcing fines if this belief is not practiced as mandated!

I wouldn't mind ACA going away if EVERYONE who refused to get health care signed a contract stating that they would be paying their own health bills out of pocket and it would never ever fall upon the American taxpayer. That included ER visits, etc. Can't pay? Too bad for you.

The point of Obamacare is to cut down on people getting what the framers called unnecessary treatment through extremely high deductibles. As J. Gruber stated, if our out of pocket expenses go up that will curb treatment costs. So the price of healthcare goes up instead of down, exposing another lie by the Obama Administration. But you don't care if he's giving you the shaft cuz he loves the geys.

I'm not getting the shaft at all. Sad to hear that you are. My health care hasn't changed in the least. Sad to hear that yours has.

Personally I think you're lying, because every policy had to change to adhere to new ACA guidelines.

Well, I'm not having any problems with our TriCare Prime. I'm sorry to hear that you are having issues, tho.

I have Tricare Prim. I work for the government and have coverage through Aetna. Because my job provides shared coverage Tricare won't pay diddly squat for medical.

 

[80zephyr]

So...where is your example of any homosexuals being in a position to sue a black man's bar-b-que shack for refusal of service? How will we know if they would sue or not if we don't have examples to compare?

I didn't say they were going to sue the business ... I said they wouldn't sue the business. My point was that regardless of whether it is a business or a church ... It is the same people and same reason to deny a wedding as when they are in church.

I made the further point that they wouldn't sue the bar-b-que because it is owned by a black man. If they attempted to compare their homosexuality to the discrimination against blacks ... Well, I know the business owner and the district judge ... They would be laughed out of court.

Here ... There is no special state law for fining establishments that may deny hosting a same sex marriage. You can also post a sign here that reads ... "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone without providing any reason".

.

If the business denied them service for being gay, why not?

And as for NOT suing a bar-b-que place because it's owned by a black man....what does that have to do with anything. If I walk into a business owned by ANYONE and they denied me service because I'm gay....you bet I would report it to the state business bureau.

As it should be. But, if you want then to help you acknowledge your gay marriage, then you are going to far.

Mark

 

[Seawytch]

Does the will of the people include being able to pass unConstitutional laws?

Are you suggesting that laws discriminating against individuals due to their religion are Constitutional?

.

Segregationists claimed religious beliefs as did slave owners.

So what? A mistake does not mean you can now exclude every religious belief by law. That is, if the Constitution really does mean something anymore.

Mark

You missed the point. They interpreted the bible to support their bigoted views just like you do. Their beliefs did not excuse them from PA laws just like yours do not (in places that extend these protections to gays as well as blacks and Christians)

 

[Seawytch]

And I'm sure you've been railing against Public Accommodations since people were "forced" to serve blacks since the 1960s, right?

I never heard too much about the "injustice" and "tyranny" of PA laws...until about five to ten years ago when they began to ALSO protect gays in some places on equal footing with race, religion, etc. Funny that.

OK- But what about my question? What is your educated 'guess' as to why someone would just simply not take their business elsewhere? My guess is they are paid shills to bring their 'plight' to the forefront.

If they really wanted what they protest, they would of succeeded already elsewhere

-Geaux

Ask the Civil Rights Act that protects race, religion, country of origin, etc. You're asking why we have PA laws. I'm sure you can find the answer if you try really, really hard.

If the Civil Rights Act protects religion, then forcing someone to act in defiance of their religion is breaking the law, is it not?

Mark

No. It protects the religious from discrimination. I am forced, by federal law to serve crazy eyed Christians in all 50 states. They only have to serve me in a few. Change 'em all or STFU.

Hi Seawytch
trying to come up with the equivalent for you
of what it is like to hire wedding services of people that forces them to attend
and PARTICIPATE in a gay wedding if they don't believe in that.

How about something like this:
A. what if you do not agree with Christianity,
but you are asked to write and deliver a speech praising Christianity
and pointing out the good practices, history and benefits of the outreach.
Do you have the right to turn down that business/job
because you feel someone else is more suited to do that, and you don't want it.

B. If someone was going to rent your land to kill cows and chickens as a demonstration
of the process, to make a revenge statement against PETA to be mean,
or film a porn movie where people are acting out rape, and you
don't agree with those activities. Do you have the right to turn
down business you prefer not to have on your property.

C. if someone wants to rent your private facility to
give a speech denying the Holocaust and defending their
beliefs they are the ones harassed by the jews, not the other way,
do you have the right to turn down that business and say no thanks
i'd rather not be associated with having supported this level of free speech.

those are just examples I threw together

can anyone else think of some that a normal person
might refuse and nobody would fault them for saying no thanks I'll pass!

Hi Strawman! If the service is not provided by the business, it cannot be required to be.

 

[bodecea]

So...where is your example of any homosexuals being in a position to sue a black man's bar-b-que shack for refusal of service? How will we know if they would sue or not if we don't have examples to compare?

I didn't say they were going to sue the business ... I said they wouldn't sue the business. My point was that regardless of whether it is a business or a church ... It is the same people and same reason to deny a wedding as when they are in church.

I made the further point that they wouldn't sue the bar-b-que because it is owned by a black man. If they attempted to compare their homosexuality to the discrimination against blacks ... Well, I know the business owner and the district judge ... They would be laughed out of court.

Here ... There is no special state law for fining establishments that may deny hosting a same sex marriage. You can also post a sign here that reads ... "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone without providing any reason".

.

So...where is your example of any homosexuals being in a position to sue a black man's bar-b-que shack for refusal of service? How will we know if they would sue or not if we don't have examples to compare?

I didn't say they were going to sue the business ... I said they wouldn't sue the business. My point was that regardless of whether it is a business or a church ... It is the same people and same reason to deny a wedding as when they are in church.

I made the further point that they wouldn't sue the bar-b-que because it is owned by a black man. If they attempted to compare their homosexuality to the discrimination against blacks ... Well, I know the business owner and the district judge ... They would be laughed out of court.

Here ... There is no special state law for fining establishments that may deny hosting a same sex marriage. You can also post a sign here that reads ... "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone without providing any reason".

.

If the business denied them service for being gay, why not?

And as for NOT suing a bar-b-que place because it's owned by a black man....what does that have to do with anything. If I walk into a business owned by ANYONE and they denied me service because I'm gay....you bet I would report it to the state business bureau.

As it should be. But, if you want then to help you acknowledge your gay marriage, then you are going to far.

Mark

So...if I want that BBQ place to cater my wedding and they refuse on the admitted grounds that we are gay.....that's not breaking PA (Public Accommodation) laws? Guess again.

 

[mudwhistle]

1. for Christians and Constitutionalists who believe the ACA violates beliefs in Constitutional limits on govt
and mandates a political belief in health care as a right forced through govt at the expense of due process and liberty,
YES there has been a national outcry over that violation and exclusion/penalty that discriminates on the basis of creed

2. for Christians who are banned from sharing prayer or scripture as an expression of free speech
YES there is protest that public schools USE public funds so should accommodate the public equally

For businesses,
the Christians I know are happy to take their business to places that deserve it.

the people I see suing over this
are trying to make a social or political statement.

same as atheists suing over crosses or pledges
as opposed to those who just live and let live and don't sue over this.

Frankly I believe the ACA mandates are the worst infringement on religious freedom
by the federal govt establishing a national belief in the right to health care forced on taxpayers under fear of penalty.

that is more frightening that local battles over
school prayers and crosses on public property.

The gay marriage issue is somewhere in between,
where it could be resolved locally but instead it is affecting whole states.

The ACA violations are more serious because that is the equivalent of establishing
a political belief for the entire nation through Congress, and enforcing fines if this belief is not practiced as mandated!

I wouldn't mind ACA going away if EVERYONE who refused to get health care signed a contract stating that they would be paying their own health bills out of pocket and it would never ever fall upon the American taxpayer. That included ER visits, etc. Can't pay? Too bad for you.

The point of Obamacare is to cut down on people getting what the framers called unnecessary treatment through extremely high deductibles. As J. Gruber stated, if our out of pocket expenses go up that will curb treatment costs. So the price of healthcare goes up instead of down, exposing another lie by the Obama Administration. But you don't care if he's giving you the shaft cuz he loves the geys.

I'm not getting the shaft at all. Sad to hear that you are. My health care hasn't changed in the least. Sad to hear that yours has.

Personally I think you're lying, because every policy had to change to adhere to new ACA guidelines.

Well, I'm not having any problems with our TriCare Prime. I'm sorry to hear that you are having issues, tho.

I had a Cardiac Catheterization done last year, this is just a test mind you, that cost me $12,000.00. They found nothing wrong. I have no issues. Still cost me $12k to find that out.

 

[BlackSand]

If the business denied them service for being gay, why not?

And as for NOT suing a bar-b-que place because it's owned by a black man....what does that have to do with anything. If I walk into a business owned by ANYONE and they denied me service because I'm gay....you bet I would report it to the state business bureau.

They don't have to say it is because they are gay ... And they can refuse service if they don't like the way you are dressed.

You don't understand ... If you complained to the state business bureau here about refusal of performing a same sex marriage ... The answer would be, "So what, you need help finding a business that will better suit your needs?"

.

 

[Seawytch]

For many years I have been comfortable with equal (EQUAL) rights, including marriage and adoption, for same-sex couples.

However, recent in-your-face stuff, as Hazel Nut is pushing, have caused me to think in terms of "queers" and "homos". Hazy, what you're doing is putting your cause back abou5 50 years.

We're too uppity?

Yes! When you ask for the same protections given race, religion, nation of origin, etc you're being uppity.

 

[Seawytch]

1. for Christians and Constitutionalists who believe the ACA violates beliefs in Constitutional limits on govt
and mandates a political belief in health care as a right forced through govt at the expense of due process and liberty,
YES there has been a national outcry over that violation and exclusion/penalty that discriminates on the basis of creed

2. for Christians who are banned from sharing prayer or scripture as an expression of free speech
YES there is protest that public schools USE public funds so should accommodate the public equally

For businesses,
the Christians I know are happy to take their business to places that deserve it.

the people I see suing over this
are trying to make a social or political statement.

same as atheists suing over crosses or pledges
as opposed to those who just live and let live and don't sue over this.

Frankly I believe the ACA mandates are the worst infringement on religious freedom
by the federal govt establishing a national belief in the right to health care forced on taxpayers under fear of penalty.

that is more frightening that local battles over
school prayers and crosses on public property.

The gay marriage issue is somewhere in between,
where it could be resolved locally but instead it is affecting whole states.

The ACA violations are more serious because that is the equivalent of establishing
a political belief for the entire nation through Congress, and enforcing fines if this belief is not practiced as mandated!

I wouldn't mind ACA going away if EVERYONE who refused to get health care signed a contract stating that they would be paying their own health bills out of pocket and it would never ever fall upon the American taxpayer. That included ER visits, etc. Can't pay? Too bad for you.

The point of Obamacare is to cut down on people getting what the framers called unnecessary treatment through extremely high deductibles. As J. Gruber stated, if our out of pocket expenses go up that will curb treatment costs. So the price of healthcare goes up instead of down, exposing another lie by the Obama Administration. But you don't care if he's giving you the shaft cuz he loves the geys.

I'm not getting the shaft at all. Sad to hear that you are. My health care hasn't changed in the least. Sad to hear that yours has.

My premiums have doubled and my deductibles have gone up. Tricare hasn't changed, they cover practically nothing.

Neither I or my family seems to be having any issues with Tricare Prime.

Me neither. Prime is my secondary insurance, Blue Shield is my Primary. No changes in coverage except now I get free flu shots. Thanks Obama!

 

[80zephyr]

You said "the rights of a customer does not trump the rights of the business owner"...did you not? What if the business owner (Woolworths) does not wish to serve blacks at their lunch counters? Doesn't Woolworth's rights to NOT serve blacks trump the rights of black customers to be served there? If not, why not?

Are you suggesting the same sex couple is black ... Or that being a same sex couple is the same as being black? Or are you suggesting eating lunch at Woolworth's is the same as getting married?

.

Civil rights for law-abiding fellow citizens are civil rights.....no matter if citizens are of a different race, a different gender, a different religion, a different sexual orientation, etc.

Or don't you agree with that?

civil rights are about a person's interaction with the government, not about their interaction with other citizens.

This isn't an interaction between citizens...it is an interaction between citizens and a business. Should businesses not have to follow laws passed?

Forcing a religious person to follow business law in clear

Are you suggesting the same sex couple is black ... Or that being a same sex couple is the same as being black? Or are you suggesting eating lunch at Woolworth's is the same as getting married?

.

Civil rights for law-abiding fellow citizens are civil rights.....no matter if citizens are of a different race, a different gender, a different religion, a different sexual orientation, etc.

Or don't you agree with that?

civil rights are about a person's interaction with the government, not about their interaction with other citizens.

This isn't an interaction between citizens...it is an interaction between citizens and a business. Should businesses not have to follow laws passed?

a business is a person.One does not lose their own civil rights just to sell a product or a service. It is in fact THEIR Civil rights that are being violated by the government.

The laws are being abused by litigious twats like you.

A business can be made up of one person....but businesses have to follow business laws if they want a license. Just Joe Schmoe Individual does not.

There is no law that states that you have to deny your religious convictions to operate a business in America.

None.

And if one were to exist, it would be unconstitutional.

You cannot deny rights by government fiat. Can the government tell you that because you run a business, you have to give up your right to free speech?

The connection is ridiculous.

Mark

 

[Seawytch]

So...where is your example of any homosexuals being in a position to sue a black man's bar-b-que shack for refusal of service? How will we know if they would sue or not if we don't have examples to compare?

I didn't say they were going to sue the business ... I said they wouldn't sue the business. My point was that regardless of whether it is a business or a church ... It is the same people and same reason to deny a wedding as when they are in church.

I made the further point that they wouldn't sue the bar-b-que because it is owned by a black man. If they attempted to compare their homosexuality to the discrimination against blacks ... Well, I know the business owner and the district judge ... They would be laughed out of court.

Here ... There is no special state law for fining establishments that may deny hosting a same sex marriage. You can also post a sign here that reads ... "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone without providing any reason".

.

So...where is your example of any homosexuals being in a position to sue a black man's bar-b-que shack for refusal of service? How will we know if they would sue or not if we don't have examples to compare?

I didn't say they were going to sue the business ... I said they wouldn't sue the business. My point was that regardless of whether it is a business or a church ... It is the same people and same reason to deny a wedding as when they are in church.

I made the further point that they wouldn't sue the bar-b-que because it is owned by a black man. If they attempted to compare their homosexuality to the discrimination against blacks ... Well, I know the business owner and the district judge ... They would be laughed out of court.

Here ... There is no special state law for fining establishments that may deny hosting a same sex marriage. You can also post a sign here that reads ... "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone without providing any reason".

.

If the business denied them service for being gay, why not?

And as for NOT suing a bar-b-que place because it's owned by a black man....what does that have to do with anything. If I walk into a business owned by ANYONE and they denied me service because I'm gay....you bet I would report it to the state business bureau.

As it should be. But, if you want then to help you acknowledge your gay marriage, then you are going to far.

Mark

So...if I want that BBQ place to cater my wedding and they refuse on the admitted grounds that we are gay.....that's not breaking PA (Public Accommodation) laws? Guess again.

Depends on where...

 

[BlackSand]

So...where is your example of any homosexuals being in a position to sue a black man's bar-b-que shack for refusal of service? How will we know if they would sue or
So...if I want that BBQ place to cater my wedding and they refuse on the admitted grounds that we are gay.....that's not breaking PA (Public Accommodation) laws? Guess again.

You are missing the point Bodecca ... You don't have to refuse a couple service because they are gay here. You can refuse them service for whatever you feel like (as you don't say it is because they are gay).

.

 

[bodecea]

I wouldn't mind ACA going away if EVERYONE who refused to get health care signed a contract stating that they would be paying their own health bills out of pocket and it would never ever fall upon the American taxpayer. That included ER visits, etc. Can't pay? Too bad for you.

The point of Obamacare is to cut down on people getting what the framers called unnecessary treatment through extremely high deductibles. As J. Gruber stated, if our out of pocket expenses go up that will curb treatment costs. So the price of healthcare goes up instead of down, exposing another lie by the Obama Administration. But you don't care if he's giving you the shaft cuz he loves the geys.

I'm not getting the shaft at all. Sad to hear that you are. My health care hasn't changed in the least. Sad to hear that yours has.

Personally I think you're lying, because every policy had to change to adhere to new ACA guidelines.

Well, I'm not having any problems with our TriCare Prime. I'm sorry to hear that you are having issues, tho.

I had a Cardiac Catheterization done last year, this is just a test mind you, that cost me $12,000.00. They found nothing wrong. I have no issues. Still cost me $12k to find that out.

Maybe because we've been lucky enough to not need much from them....just daughter's asthma issues.

 

[Seawytch]

You said "the rights of a customer does not trump the rights of the business owner"...did you not? What if the business owner (Woolworths) does not wish to serve blacks at their lunch counters? Doesn't Woolworth's rights to NOT serve blacks trump the rights of black customers to be served there? If not, why not?

Are you suggesting the same sex couple is black ... Or that being a same sex couple is the same as being black? Or are you suggesting eating lunch at Woolworth's is the same as getting married?

.

Civil rights for law-abiding fellow citizens are civil rights.....no matter if citizens are of a different race, a different gender, a different religion, a different sexual orientation, etc.

Or don't you agree with that?

civil rights are about a person's interaction with the government, not about their interaction with other citizens.

This isn't an interaction between citizens...it is an interaction between citizens and a business. Should businesses not have to follow laws passed?

Forcing a religious person to follow business law in clear

Civil rights for law-abiding fellow citizens are civil rights.....no matter if citizens are of a different race, a different gender, a different religion, a different sexual orientation, etc.

Or don't you agree with that?

civil rights are about a person's interaction with the government, not about their interaction with other citizens.

This isn't an interaction between citizens...it is an interaction between citizens and a business. Should businesses not have to follow laws passed?

a business is a person.One does not lose their own civil rights just to sell a product or a service. It is in fact THEIR Civil rights that are being violated by the government.

The laws are being abused by litigious twats like you.

A business can be made up of one person....but businesses have to follow business laws if they want a license. Just Joe Schmoe Individual does not.

There is no law that states that you have to deny your religious convictions to operate a business in America.

None.

And if one were to exist, it would be unconstitutional.

You cannot deny rights by government fiat. Can the government tell you that because you run a business, you have to give up your right to free speech?

The connection is ridiculous.

Mark

PA laws have been upheld by the SCOTUS and "religious liberty" has been tried. Bigots had the same bible behind them in trying to deny serving blacks or interracial couples.

When Religious Liberty Was Used To Justify Racism Instead Of Homophobia ThinkProgress

 

[bodecea]

If the business denied them service for being gay, why not?

And as for NOT suing a bar-b-que place because it's owned by a black man....what does that have to do with anything. If I walk into a business owned by ANYONE and they denied me service because I'm gay....you bet I would report it to the state business bureau.

They don't have to say it is because they are gay ... And they can refuse service if they don't like the way you are dressed.

You don't understand ... If you complained to the state business bureau here about refusal of performing a same sex marriage ... The answer would be, "So what, you need help finding a business that will better suit your needs?"

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You are absolutely right...........but the business in the OP did admit it was because the couple was gay. There's your answer right there.

 

[bodecea]

If the business denied them service for being gay, why not?

And as for NOT suing a bar-b-que place because it's owned by a black man....what does that have to do with anything. If I walk into a business owned by ANYONE and they denied me service because I'm gay....you bet I would report it to the state business bureau.

They don't have to say it is because they are gay ... And they can refuse service if they don't like the way you are dressed.

You don't understand ... If you complained to the state business bureau here about refusal of performing a same sex marriage ... The answer would be, "So what, you need help finding a business that will better suit your needs?"

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Thought this justified a different reply....your state doesn't have PA (public accommodation) laws?

 

[Seawytch]

So...where is your example of any homosexuals being in a position to sue a black man's bar-b-que shack for refusal of service? How will we know if they would sue or
So...if I want that BBQ place to cater my wedding and they refuse on the admitted grounds that we are gay.....that's not breaking PA (Public Accommodation) laws? Guess again.

You are missing the point Bodecca ... You don't have to refuse a couple service because they are gay here. You can refuse them service for whatever you feel like (as you don't say it is because they are gay).

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You don't have the right to refuse service for "any" reason. There are very clear instances where you cannot refuse to serve.

The Right to Refuse Service Can a Business Refuse Service to Someone Because of Appearance Odor or Attitude legalzoom.com

 

[BlackSand]

Thought this justified a different reply....your state doesn't have PA (public accommodation) laws?

Of course we have anti-discrimination laws ... The complaint is just harder to progress through the system because we also have laws that protect the business owner.

If someone wants to pursue a case against a business owner ... The owner is not required to give the plaintiff a reason why they were denied service. The plaintiff has to prove that discrimination on the basis of race, sexual orientation, age, size, gender or religion was first present and not justified (age, size, gender).

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