Zone1 If you don't believe in the real Jesus and His Church, you are a heretic

[GMCGeneral]

Again, go back to the original language. Jesus had kin. Search a little history. These were the children of Joseph's brother, Clopas and Clopas' wife, Mary. Not only is this touched upon in the Bible, it is confirmed in early Christian writings. Do the research. Or, do as you prefer--insist that Mary sinned, had sex after vowing to remain a virgin, and just happened to stumble into the way of God's plan. Certainly God has no power to help a young woman keep her vow of virginity, or Joseph to keep his vow of chastity.

Mary admitted she was just as.much a sinner in need of the Savior.

 

[Meriweather]

Mary admitted she was just as.much a sinner in need of the Savior.

I understand the Protestant twist. Protestants cannon imagine God saving Mary from ever committing any sin, and Mary humbly saying it was through God's grace, not her own strength, that preserved her from committing a sin.

There is no need to limit God's grace; no need to downplay His power or disregard His helping hand in one's life.

Listen, I don't care--it's your vision/view--of how you view God, His grace, His power--and your delight in proclaiming Mary a sinner, despite the angel's declaration she was full of grace. Disregard the angel and run to Paul who said all men sinned. I actually have more respect for atheists who say Mary just made up the whole thing, than those who say they believe but then hasten to limit both God's power and grace.

 

[kjw47]

the JWs are in heresy like all Protestants.

There is only ONE Church, the Catholic Church. . the only one that goes back to the time of Christ and the 12. You can reject Catholicism but you can't reject (true) history

Imagine that. Their bloodguilt has amassed to the heavens.

 

[GMCGeneral]

I understand the Protestant twist. Protestants cannon imagine God saving Mary from ever committing any sin, and Mary humbly saying it was through God's grace, not her own strength, that preserved her from committing a sin.

There is no need to limit God's grace; no need to downplay His power or disregard His helping hand in one's life.

Listen, I don't care--it's your vision/view--of how you view God, His grace, His power--and your delight in proclaiming Mary a sinner, despite the angel's declaration she was full of grace. Disregard the angel and run to Paul who said all men sinned. I actually have more respect for atheists who say Mary just made up the whole thing, than those who say they believe but then hasten to limit both God's power and grace.

Difference is Luther was right. The Vatican is the false church.

 

[Meriweather]

Difference is Luther was right. The Vatican is the false church.

Luther, in so many ways was wrong. However, I have no doubt he loved Jesus. Too bad that love did not extend to working within the Church so that it might have remained unified.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Or, do as you prefer--insist that Mary sinned, had sex after vowing to remain a virgin, and just happened to stumble into the way of God's plan.

Sex within marriage is not sin.
Mary made no such vow.
More Catholic nonsense

 

[Meriweather]

Sex within marriage is not sin.
Mary made no such vow.
More Catholic nonsense

To be precise...Early Christian "nonsense" that all Christians followed for fifteen hundred years. After fifteen hundred years, some decided they knew better than those who lived and followed Jesus from the beginning. They threw out and ignored the old and brought in something new. Language evolves.

 

[Crepitus]

If you don't believe in the real Jesus and His Church, you are a heretic​

Nope. I'm an atheist.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm an atheist.

Why is that?

 

[ding]

Nope. I'm an atheist.

Why can't you be both?

A heretic is someone who holds beliefs or opinions that differ from what is generally accepted or official. For example, someone might be considered a heretic if they:

• Challenge an assumption about global warming
• Have beliefs that go against the principles of a particular religion
• Challenge the status quo
• Don't believe in the existence of a creator

 

[GMCGeneral]

Luther, in so many ways was wrong. However, I have no doubt he loved Jesus. Too bad that love did not extend to working within the Church so that it might have remained unified.

The RCC does not believe in Sola Scriptura, which is the very hallmark of the Christian faith. The RCC bases salvation by works alone, in clear violation of Ephesians 2:8-9. the RCC is guilty of atrocities including the inquisitions, the RCC is also known as the "Great Whore of Babylon" as described in Revelation. The Douay Bible contains books (Apocrypha) that were not inspired by G-d. And I do believe the RCC and the Jesuits were instrumental in the Holocaust. And contrary to Vatican II, anyone who is not Catholic is still branded an heretic.

 

[Meriweather]

The RCC does not believe in Sola Scriptura, which is the very hallmark of the Christian faith.

Incorrect.

The Catholic Church does not limit itself to the Bible as the Early Christian Church did not even yet have the New Testament. They gave mind to the Old Testament and to the Oral words spoken by the Apostles. They followed the traditions of Jesus' earliest followers, the Apostles. To this day, the Catholic Church continues to follow Apostolic tradition, and of course, scripture.

The RCC bases salvation by works alone

Not just wrong, but totally wrong.

Redemption and salvation are given to us by grace from God. We receive the grace of salvation salvation through the grace of faith and then faith working itself out through love/acts of love. This is taught in Galatians; James also taught this, so an early teaching taught and practiced by the Early Church and practiced by the Catholic Church down through the ages.

the RCC is guilty of atrocities including the inquisitions

Protestant churches are also guilty of atrocities--all human groups and organizations are. The sad part about so much of this is that most of these things they start out with not only good intentions, but the best of intentions. Actually study the Inquisitions. In a time Church and State worked together, it was the Church who came to the aid of those being unfairly punished by the State. Anyone the State labeled guilty had the right to appeal to the Church who could overturn the prior decision. With this custom in place, No one expects the Spanish Inquisition. This Inquisitor (forgotten his name, look it up) is responsible for the horrendous number of deaths, and even at the time was censored by Rome. However, the State was on the side of the Inquisitor, but to this day it is that person, actually acting for the Spanish government at that time, who is the cause of the Catholic Church being blamed for the Inquisitions gone wrong. Could the Church have done more? Sure. The Church instead of merely calling the man in for censure could have excommunicated him. When wrong is occurring, something can always be done.

RCC is also known as the "Great Whore of Babylon"

Wrong.

Don't you people ever do any actual Bible Study using scholarly sources? I know some do, because one of the best scholarly sources on the Book of Revelation was written by a non-Catholic.

The Douay Bible contains books (Apocrypha) that were not inspired by G-d.

Absolutely. The Catholic Church retained books used in the time of Christ and the Early Christians. A few hundred years later, Judaism put together their own Canon, and chose not to include these books. About a thousand years after that, Protestants said, Hey, let's only follow the books the Jews who lived over a hundred years after Christ decided to follow, and toss out the others in use at the time of Christ.

I do believe the RCC and the Jesuits were instrumental in the Holocaust.

Of course you do, that doesn't surprise me at all. As in all your other objections, these beliefs are/have been based on pure emotion, not on study of primary sources. You have no interest in what the Church was doing as a unit. You are going after individual and subsets who happen to be Catholic. It's not as if it no one knows that that Adolf Hitler was baptized Catholic and raised in the Catholic faith. The fact that he rejected Catholicism is often overlooked.

And contrary to Vatican II, anyone who is not Catholic is still branded an heretic.

Read that again. You finally admit that the Catholic Church does not look upon other Christian denominations as heretics. Once more, pure emotions drives you to your conclusion that you are branded as a heretic. This is wrong on so many levels. It is impossible to brand anyone who is not a practicing Catholic a heretic. That would be like accusing a citizen of another country treason against the United States. One has to be a citizen of the US before one can be accused of treason against his own country.

In the same way, a practicing Catholic can be accused of heresy, but not anyone else. The best you can do is complain that the Catholic Church won't even regard you as a heretic!

 

[Crepitus]

Why is that?

I've seen too much of this world.

 

[Crepitus]

Why can't you be both?

A heretic is someone who holds beliefs or opinions that differ from what is generally accepted or official. For example, someone might be considered a heretic if they:

• Challenge an assumption about global warming
• Have beliefs that go against the principles of a particular religion
• Challenge the status quo
• Don't believe in the existence of a creator

As far as I am concerned there is nothing "generally accepted or official" about belief in any god.

 

[ding]

As far as I am concerned there is nothing "generally accepted or official" about belief in any god.

Then you have no concept of how statistics works. You are in the minority.

 

[kjw47]

Difference is Luther was right. The Vatican is the false church.

None of the protestant religions fixed much. They used Catholicism translating= altered and filled with errors.

 

[Crepitus]

Then you have no concept of how statistics works. You are in the minority.

31% are christians. That's not a majority. 69% don't believe in that god.

25% muslim. Also not a majority. 75% not believing.

15% hindu. still not a majority. 85% not.

 

[ding]

31% are christians. That's not a majority. 69% don't believe in that god.

25% muslim. Also not a majority. 75% not believing.

15% hindu. still not a majority. 85% not.

For the purpose of this discussion there are only two groups. Those that do and those that don't. You're in the small group. So why can't it be both? You are an atheist and a heretic. Don't feel bad. I'm a heretic when it comes to AGW. You're a heretic when it comes to God. Lean into it.

 

[Crepitus]

For the purpose of this discussion there are only two groups. Those that do and those that don't. You're in the small group. So why can't it be both? You are an atheist and a heretic. Don't feel bad. I'm a heretic when it comes to AGW. You're a heretic when it comes to God. Lean into it.

So you put hindus and muslims in your group?

Did you tell them that?

 

[ding]

So you put hindus and muslims in your group?

Did you tell them that?

Yeah, the group that believes in God.

Why would I need to tell them that? They already know. They aren't ignorant militant atheists that think they know everything.