If we can't see an atom or a god, how do we 'prove' or 'disprove' these things exist, and do we even need proof?

[toobfreak]

Known through faith? Do you know the crazed claims throughout history that are based on that nonsense, let alone your own crazed claim?

I have a "crazed" claim? Oh, do elaborate.

 

[toobfreak]

Somehow, those who claim to know have to assume they've closed off or proven that there are no circumstances under which he could exist. Since we don't know squat about so much, that seems pretty arrogant.

Huh?

 

[HikerGuy83]

I have a "crazed" claim? Oh, do elaborate.

Don't hold your breath. Seems like we are dealing with a 4th grade wannabe lawyer.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Huh?

Science is constantly learning new things (I love the example of Hubble).l

What science really shows us is that we don't know SQUAT.

So, there is no way we are in a position to deny the existence of a superior being in the universe.

 

[BackAgain]

Yes it was. Of course not being able to see a god, doesn't mean one doesn't exist. But where is the evidence one does? How can we test the premise?

You see things that suggest? In the mind, correct?

Everything we see is in the mind. If we perceive it it can only be perceived in the mind.

I’m not looking to quibble.

Of course the evidence I see is a matter of my own mind and interpretation.

If I see a jet flying way up high, I sometimes see it leaving a contrail behind. Sometimes all I see is a contrail. I thereby conclude that there is likely a jet up there.

When I see some of the images from the Webb telescope, I see literally aybe hundreds of galaxies. And, I am advised that each of those galaxies contain billions of stars. But that one image is just a very small fraction of all the galaxies in the Cosmos.

They are all part and parcel of the remnants of a universal Big Bang from somewhere around 13.8 billion years ago. And dispense with all the math and physics that go into the calculations because they sail above my skill set.

They seemingly follow universal rules of nature. Gravity. Atoms. Mass. Light. The creation of stars. Planets. Comets. Dust, etc.

Those rules seem astoundingly complicated but precise (up to the point where they collapse — or where our ability to follow along collapses).

In all of that, I perceive what I consider to be the signs of a plan. Intelligence.

Again, I’m not suggesting that you need to agree. I’m ok with your disagreement.

 

[toobfreak]

Don't hold your breath. Seems like we are dealing with a 4th grade wannabe lawyer.

You can't elaborate on your own claim? Are you a 4th grade lawyer?

 

[HikerGuy83]

You can't elaborate on your own claim? Are you a 4th grade lawyer?

I wasn't talking about you.

Dante is using small time nit-picky logic in an argument about the existence of God.

 

[Moonglow]

So small it can never ever be measured or observed.

Sounds like my love life.

 

[BackAgain]

MSN

www.msn.com

The image in the piece is blurry. But the article is still informative.

The Webb telescope seems to be peering back in time to a time frame within the first million years after the Big Bang. Astounding stuff. And the more we learn, the more we need to reconsider much of what we thought we had already learned.

I’m no scientist. I wish I could be. But I love this stuff.

 

[BackAgain]

But we CAN see an atom, and as far as God is concerned, he is known through faith or direct experience. You can't "prove" him to another unless they accept the context of your argument.

This is the most detailed look at individual atoms ever captured

The highest-resolution image of atoms has been captured, doubling the resolution of an image made in 2018 by using an algorithm to reduce blurring

www.newscientist.com

Wow. Look at that. Individual atoms.

 

[westwall]

People could call somebody evil all they want. Doesn't mean evil exists.

Nobody I know of claims science has all the answers -- to everything. Not sure you keep making statements like you do.

Of course evil exists.

 

[westwall]

Let me know when you see one. I know they can be observed.

Scanning tunneling microscope.

DURRRRRR

 

[westwall]

View attachment 871171

This is the most detailed look at individual atoms ever captured

The highest-resolution image of atoms has been captured, doubling the resolution of an image made in 2018 by using an algorithm to reduce blurring

www.newscientist.com

Wow. Look at that. Individual atoms.

For claiming to be all sciency, Dante is pretty dim.

 

[BackAgain]

View attachment 871171

This is the most detailed look at individual atoms ever captured

The highest-resolution image of atoms has been captured, doubling the resolution of an image made in 2018 by using an algorithm to reduce blurring

www.newscientist.com

Wow. Look at that. Individual atoms.

Furthermore, it might just be a coincidence (yeah it might be); but don’t some of individual atoms look a bit like something we can see from hundreds of millions of light years away using the Webb telescope?

 

[BackAgain]

View attachment 871171

This is the most detailed look at individual atoms ever captured

The highest-resolution image of atoms has been captured, doubling the resolution of an image made in 2018 by using an algorithm to reduce blurring

www.newscientist.com

Wow. Look at that. Individual atoms.

Furthermore, snit just a coincidence (yeah it might be); but don’t some of individual atoms look a bit like something we can see from hundreds of millions of light years away using the Webb telescope?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Biblical Statement	Science Then	Science Now
Earth is a sphere (Is. 40:22).	Earth’s a flat disk.	Earth is a sphere
Number of stars exceeds a billion (Jer. 33:22).	Number of stars totals 1,100	Number of stars exceeds a billion
Every star is different (1 Cor 15:41).	All stars are the same.	Every star is different.
Light is in motion (Job 38:19-20).	Light is fixed in place.	Light is in motion.
Air has weight (Job 28:25).	Air is weightless.	Air has weight.
Winds blow in cyclones (Eccl. 1:6).	Winds blow straight.	Winds blow in cyclones.
Blood is a source of life and healing (Lev. 17:11).	Sick people must bled.	Blood is a source of life and healing

^
That's proof that God knows more about science than science knows.

You can see the proof. The physical reality. There can be no debate that the roof was torn off by the wind.

Prophesy is open to interpretation. It is never beyond debate -- factual.

Religious arguments are usually based on beliefs, not facts.

No, these things are historic fact, and not open to interpretation, or debate.
Here, what about this needs an interpreter?
500 BC, the prophet Daniel proclaimed that Israel’s long-awaited Messiah would begin his public ministry 483 years after the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25-26).
The decree regarding the restoration of Jerusalem was issued by Persia’s King Artaxerxes to the Hebrew priest Ezra in 458 BC, 483 years later the ministry of Jesus Christ began in Galilee.
What is vague about that? How much more precise did Daniel need to be?

God did that ^ 2,000 times. If I took just 13 of the prophesies that have been fulfilled the odds of them happening by chance would be 1 in10 to the 138th power.

And ^ that, dear boy, is science:

Law of total probability​

In probability theory, the law (or formula) of total probability is a fundamental rule relating marginal probabilities to conditional probabilities.

 

[scruffy]

Gravity is an example of something we can't see but we can INFER exists.

Because we can directly measure its effects.

Also we can control it, even at the quantum level.



(This woman is amazing - she can make the system behave as if there's a mass "over there")

 

[toobfreak]

Wow. Look at that. Individual atoms.

Yes, perovskite has the ideal cubic structure for electron scanning.

 

[Blues Man]

We would need to see a parallel history without religion to determine that. Protestant Christianity has advanced western civilization greatly. Other religions maybe not so much.

No they have not.

We advanced because because of the leaps we made in the Age Of Enlightenment when we finally moved away from Iron Age thinking

 

[Woodznutz]

No they have not.

We advanced because because of the leaps we made in the Age Of Enlightenment when we finally moved away from Iron Age thinking

"The Reformation and printing press modernized the Western world by making the Bible and (other) books readable and available to the broader masses of people in Europe, America, and the world. These events, in turn, led to a more widely literate and enlightened population..."

Loading…

americanheritage.org