If the U.S. has no separation of church and state, what is the state religion?

[FA_Q2]

The Country was built on Judeo-Christian values but there is no State religion official or unofficial. People are free to worship how they see fit.

Tell that to the mosque at Ground Zero.

You mean the one that was actually built?

Yes, apparently they were free to worship as they pleased.

 

[Contumacious]

A lot of religious nuts insist there is no separation of church and state in the United States because the constitution doesn't use the exact words "separation of church and state."

If there is no separation of church and state, than that means there must be an official state religion.

I'd like to know what they think it is.

Obviously, barring the establishment of a state religion means the exact same thing as separation of church and state. It's a synonym.

Parasitism.

Why?
.

 

[Billo_Really]

You mean the one that was actually built?

Yes, apparently they were free to worship as they pleased.

They actually got one built?

I did not know that.

 

[RightDown]

How do you prove a negative? Along with prohibiting the establishment of a religion the 1st Amendment prohibits the making of any law that impedes the free exercise of religion. The bigoted left got around the "making" part of the Constitution by finding a loophole that did not exist. The modern concept of "separation church/state" is an invention by a FDR appointed Supreme Court justice who was also a former KKK member who hated Papists. The bigoted left drags out Jefferson letters that tend to reinforce the separation concept but Jefferson's letters are not part of Constitutional law.

All law is man-made. All supreme court cases support the conclusion that there is a metaphorical wall btn church and state. Any state action that proselytizes is an establishment clause violation.

I know I certainly don't want big government shoving religion down my throat. Do you?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Seems that reading that any other way would be sort of misguided.

I'd be interested examples of how the government could be involved in "shoving religion down my throat" other than establishing a religion. I think the church/state bigots are the same establishment democrats who thought the civil rights act was "shoving freedom down our throats".

Any governmental act or effort that presents religion in a manner consistent with proselytizing is fair game for "shoving religion down our throats." Honestly though, I don't want someone's supernatural ideas pushed on me in any venue. You can't watch a decent TV show on early Sunday morning b/c the stations are crammed with various doctors of divinity pushing their witchcraft.

 

[Londoner]

Religion isn't as important to Republican leadership as they claim.

Profit is their God.

Religion is merely a populist tool used to get poor people to vote for the interests of the people who shipped American jobs to China in order to profit from cheaper labor.

Ronald Reagan never stepped foot in a church until he realized that his path to the White House was through the heartland and the South. This is the worst kept secret in history.

The Republican Party represents the takeover of Washington by large corporations and the wealthy. But these special interests need to win elections - so they manipulated poor people with God, Patriotism, Terrorism ("national security" > fear), etc.

 

[WinterBorn]

How do you prove a negative? Along with prohibiting the establishment of a religion the 1st Amendment prohibits the making of any law that impedes the free exercise of religion. The bigoted left got around the "making" part of the Constitution by finding a loophole that did not exist. The modern concept of "separation church/state" is an invention by a FDR appointed Supreme Court justice who was also a former KKK member who hated Papists. The bigoted left drags out Jefferson letters that tend to reinforce the separation concept but Jefferson's letters are not part of Constitutional law.

Please tell us how your right to free exercise of your religion has been impaired.

Kids arrested for carrying a Bible to school. Christians prohibited from school grounds after school while crazy clubs promoting witchcraft have a wide acceptance. Prohibition of the Manger Scene on public property during Christmas. The court order that a Korean War Memorial in San Diego be demolished because it contains a 40 ft Cross. Small towns fearful of a ACLU law suit for a Christmas tree on public property. Prayer or the mention of a Christian God or symbols of Christianity prohibited in American public schools.

So which of those prevents you from practicing your religion? The kid was arrested for carrying a bible? Got a link for that?

Christians are not prohibited from school grounds. There may be a prohibition on Christian groups, but not Christians.

You posted some rather sensationalistic stuff there. Please show where your religion requires a manger scene on public property? Or perhaps show any biblical references to Xmas trees?

They banned school led prayers. But trust me, as long as there are exams there will be prayers.

 

[bodecea]

Right now it is worship of the state, specifically the presidunce.

In bygone eras, the king was divine. His hand was God's hand. We have gone all the way around to the divine right of kings to rule, some who, by virtue of birth has power over others. In this case it isn't only birth, but race. This would not have happened if obama had not been black. He is the diety of the state religion. Disagreement is treason and heresy.

Fascinating.

 

[bodecea]

How do you prove a negative? Along with prohibiting the establishment of a religion the 1st Amendment prohibits the making of any law that impedes the free exercise of religion. The bigoted left got around the "making" part of the Constitution by finding a loophole that did not exist. The modern concept of "separation church/state" is an invention by a FDR appointed Supreme Court justice who was also a former KKK member who hated Papists. The bigoted left drags out Jefferson letters that tend to reinforce the separation concept but Jefferson's letters are not part of Constitutional law.

Please tell us how your right to free exercise of your religion has been impaired.

Kids arrested for carrying a Bible to school. Christians prohibited from school grounds after school while crazy clubs promoting witchcraft have a wide acceptance. Prohibition of the Manger Scene on public property during Christmas. The court order that a Korean War Memorial in San Diego be demolished because it contains a 40 ft Cross. Small towns fearful of a ACLU law suit for a Christmas tree on public property. Prayer or the mention of a Christian God or symbols of Christianity prohibited in American public schools.

Want a link to that. TIA

 

[Unkotare]

Or perhaps show any biblical references to Xmas trees?

'What' trees?

 

[WelfareQueen]

You mean the one that was actually built?

Yes, apparently they were free to worship as they pleased.

They actually got one built?

I did not know that.

Right across the street

 

[The Rabbi]

Please tell us how your right to free exercise of your religion has been impaired.

Kids arrested for carrying a Bible to school. Christians prohibited from school grounds after school while crazy clubs promoting witchcraft have a wide acceptance. Prohibition of the Manger Scene on public property during Christmas. The court order that a Korean War Memorial in San Diego be demolished because it contains a 40 ft Cross. Small towns fearful of a ACLU law suit for a Christmas tree on public property. Prayer or the mention of a Christian God or symbols of Christianity prohibited in American public schools.

So which of those prevents you from practicing your religion? The kid was arrested for carrying a bible? Got a link for that?

Christians are not prohibited from school grounds. There may be a prohibition on Christian groups, but not Christians.

You posted some rather sensationalistic stuff there. Please show where your religion requires a manger scene on public property? Or perhaps show any biblical references to Xmas trees?

They banned school led prayers. But trust me, as long as there are exams there will be prayers.

So people can be Christians as long as they don't actually practice Christianity or express their beliefs? ANd you think that's OK?

 

[mudwhistle]

Kids arrested for carrying a Bible to school. Christians prohibited from school grounds after school while crazy clubs promoting witchcraft have a wide acceptance. Prohibition of the Manger Scene on public property during Christmas. The court order that a Korean War Memorial in San Diego be demolished because it contains a 40 ft Cross. Small towns fearful of a ACLU law suit for a Christmas tree on public property. Prayer or the mention of a Christian God or symbols of Christianity prohibited in American public schools.

So which of those prevents you from practicing your religion? The kid was arrested for carrying a bible? Got a link for that?

Christians are not prohibited from school grounds. There may be a prohibition on Christian groups, but not Christians.

You posted some rather sensationalistic stuff there. Please show where your religion requires a manger scene on public property? Or perhaps show any biblical references to Xmas trees?

They banned school led prayers. But trust me, as long as there are exams there will be prayers.

So people can be Christians as long as they don't actually practice Christianity or express their beliefs? ANd you think that's OK?

Hey, if you don't support same-sex marriage you're a bigot.

 

[WinterBorn]

Or perhaps show any biblical references to Xmas trees?

'What' trees?

I asked for examples of people's right to worship has been curtailed or stopped. Part of the answer I received was "Small towns fearful of a ACLU law suit for a Christmas tree on public property". So, obviously, those trees are part of the Christian faith/worship.

 

[WinterBorn]

Kids arrested for carrying a Bible to school. Christians prohibited from school grounds after school while crazy clubs promoting witchcraft have a wide acceptance. Prohibition of the Manger Scene on public property during Christmas. The court order that a Korean War Memorial in San Diego be demolished because it contains a 40 ft Cross. Small towns fearful of a ACLU law suit for a Christmas tree on public property. Prayer or the mention of a Christian God or symbols of Christianity prohibited in American public schools.

So which of those prevents you from practicing your religion? The kid was arrested for carrying a bible? Got a link for that?

Christians are not prohibited from school grounds. There may be a prohibition on Christian groups, but not Christians.

You posted some rather sensationalistic stuff there. Please show where your religion requires a manger scene on public property? Or perhaps show any biblical references to Xmas trees?

They banned school led prayers. But trust me, as long as there are exams there will be prayers.

So people can be Christians as long as they don't actually practice Christianity or express their beliefs? ANd you think that's OK?

How is anyone stopping them from practicing Christianity? Has anyone been barred from a church, arrested for praying in a church or at home?

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

A lot of religious nuts insist there is no separation of church and state in the United States because the constitution doesn't use the exact words "separation of church and state."

If there is no separation of church and state, than that means there must be an official state religion.

I'd like to know what they think it is.

Obviously, barring the establishment of a state religion means the exact same thing as separation of church and state. It's a synonym.

No, it doesn't. Fallacy fail. Thread fail.
/end

Explain how it's a fallacy.

You can not because it is not.

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

A lot of religious nuts insist there is no separation of church and state in the United States because the constitution doesn't use the exact words "separation of church and state."

If there is no separation of church and state, than that means there must be an official state religion.

I'd like to know what they think it is.

Obviously, barring the establishment of a state religion means the exact same thing as separation of church and state. It's a synonym.

You seem confused by just about all the terminology you tried to use there.

How so?

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

A lot of religious nuts insist there is no separation of church and state in the United States because the constitution doesn't use the exact words "separation of church and state."

If there is no separation of church and state, than that means there must be an official state religion.

I'd like to know what they think it is.

Obviously, barring the establishment of a state religion means the exact same thing as separation of church and state. It's a synonym.

Damn, you really do know everything, don't you?

No, but I know more than you and I don't falsely claim to have read a scientific journal article.

 

[The Rabbi]

So which of those prevents you from practicing your religion? The kid was arrested for carrying a bible? Got a link for that?

Christians are not prohibited from school grounds. There may be a prohibition on Christian groups, but not Christians.

You posted some rather sensationalistic stuff there. Please show where your religion requires a manger scene on public property? Or perhaps show any biblical references to Xmas trees?

They banned school led prayers. But trust me, as long as there are exams there will be prayers.

So people can be Christians as long as they don't actually practice Christianity or express their beliefs? ANd you think that's OK?

How is anyone stopping them from practicing Christianity? Has anyone been barred from a church, arrested for praying in a church or at home?

You're joking, right? The news is filled with stories about challenges to people praying all the time. Sporting events, graduations, sessions of the legislature. Google is your friend.

 

[The Rabbi]

A lot of religious nuts insist there is no separation of church and state in the United States because the constitution doesn't use the exact words "separation of church and state."

If there is no separation of church and state, than that means there must be an official state religion.

I'd like to know what they think it is.

Obviously, barring the establishment of a state religion means the exact same thing as separation of church and state. It's a synonym.

No, it doesn't. Fallacy fail. Thread fail.
/end

Explain how it's a fallacy.

You can not because it is not.

You posit an either/or fallacy. Either the U.S. has separation of church and state Or there is an official religion.
There are many other possibilities.

Geez, debating with these people is like wrestling kittens.

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

If there is no separation of church and state, than that means there must be an official state religion.

No, it doesn't mean that.

(So much for that thread.)

If there is no separation between a government and a religion, of course it means there would be a government established religion. That's what no separation means, you idiot.