if not evolution

[ding]

All universes created through quantum tunneling events as described by inflation theory would have a beginning. If indeed there are others.

You seem hell-bent on trying to tie the expansion of the universe to a unique, singular event, even as the evidence is inconclusive. Why is that?

You can't know what something is by how it starts. You can only know what it is by how it turns out. But that doesn't mean you don't need to know all the steps.

I could say the same thing about you. You seem hell bent on dismissing the evidence that tells us the universe had a beginning.

1. red shift
2. background radiation
3. Freidman's solutions to Einstein's General Theory of Relativity
4. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics

There really is no other way. It is not possible for our universe to be eternal.

This universe is not eternal. It had a beginning but what about the universe that was existing before our universe? Our universe may just be one bubble in a multiverse of universes. If you were god you could travel between the dark matter and see the other multiverses but you aren’t.

It’s funny a god can be eternal but you dont think anything existed 17 billion years before the Big Bang.

Your primitive human brain can’t comprehend all the possibilities but Neal Debra’s Tyson can

For us, no other reality exists outside of our universe. As far as we are concerned, nothing did exist before space and time were created. Time has no measure outside of our universe.

I think you are the one who can't comprehend all the possibilities.

God doesn’t exist outside our universe?

We don't know what exists outside of our universe.

 

[sealybobo]

Every other universe is unique

Sorry, not possible, with infinite universes. Take any state of any universe, and , in infinite multiverse theory, that state has occured and will occur an infinite number of times.

Maybe more like a google of universes then. I just don’t see it. I see a flaw in that thinking and since it’s just a theory we can agree to disagree.

There is no infinite dark matter because multiverses exist. And visa versa

 

[ding]

All universes created through quantum tunneling events as described by inflation theory would have a beginning. If indeed there are others.

You seem hell-bent on trying to tie the expansion of the universe to a unique, singular event, even as the evidence is inconclusive. Why is that?

You can't know what something is by how it starts. You can only know what it is by how it turns out. But that doesn't mean you don't need to know all the steps.

I could say the same thing about you. You seem hell bent on dismissing the evidence that tells us the universe had a beginning.

1. red shift
2. background radiation
3. Freidman's solutions to Einstein's General Theory of Relativity
4. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics

There really is no other way. It is not possible for our universe to be eternal.

This universe is not eternal. It had a beginning but what about the universe that was existing before our universe? Our universe may just be one bubble in a multiverse of universes. If you were god you could travel between the dark matter and see the other multiverses but you aren’t.

It’s funny a god can be eternal but you dont think anything existed 17 billion years before the Big Bang.

Your primitive human brain can’t comprehend all the possibilities but Neal Debra’s Tyson can

For us, no other reality exists outside of our universe. As far as we are concerned, nothing did exist before space and time were created. Time has no measure outside of our universe.

I think you are the one who can't comprehend all the possibilities.

No I get all that and hoped you did too

Given the condescension dripping from your posts I'm going with you are the one who doesn't get it.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

if you don't believe in evolution, then you must believe a fully formed man just appeared/etc?
is this correct?

Adam was MADE from the red clay of the Euphrates. He didn't "just appear " any more than you did.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Every other universe is unique

Sorry, not possible, with infinite universes. Take any state of any universe, and , in infinite multiverse theory, that state has occured and will occur an infinite number of times.

Maybe more like a google of universes then. I just don’t see it. I see a flaw in that thinking and since it’s just a theory we can agree to disagree.

There is no infinite dark matter because multiverses exist. And visa versa

What's the flaw? You are the one who has more explaining to do. For instance, you have to argue why there are a google of universes, but not "a google and one" universes.

Are you familiar with the pigeonhole principle? Basically, if you have 10 pigeons amd 9 pigeonholes, you can conclude that at least one pigeonhole exists that contains at least two pigeons.

Now, a finite universe only has a finite number of possible states. These states are your "pigeonholes". And in an infinite multiverse, you have an infinite number of pigeons. So, we know at least one pigeonhole (possible state) has at least two pigeons (duplicate universes).

From here it is easy to argue all the pigeonholes contain infinite numbers of pigeons, as you can argue that no one state is any more "special" than any other.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

if you don't believe in evolution, then you must believe a fully formed man just appeared/etc?
is this correct?

Adam was MADE from the red clay of the Euphrates. He didn't "just appear " any more than you did.

No he wasn't, that's absurd.

 

[sealybobo]

Every other universe is unique

Sorry, not possible, with infinite universes. Take any state of any universe, and , in infinite multiverse theory, that state has occured and will occur an infinite number of times.

Maybe more like a google of universes then. I just don’t see it. I see a flaw in that thinking and since it’s just a theory we can agree to disagree.

There is no infinite dark matter because multiverses exist. And visa versa

What's the flaw? You are the one who has more explaining to do. For instance, you have to argue why there are a google of universes, but not "a google and one" universes.

Are you familiar with the pigeonhole principle? Basically, if you have 10 pigeons amd 9 pigeonholes, you can conclude that at least one pigeonhole exists that contains at least two pigeons.

Now, a finite universe only has a finite number of possible states. These states are your "pigeonholes". And in an infinite multiverse, you have an infinite number of pigeons. So, we know at least one pigeonhole (possible state) has at least two pigeons (duplicate universes).

From here it is easy to argue all the pigeonholes contain infinite numbers of pigeons, as you can argue that no one state is any more "special" than any other.

Sorry I don’t accept that. Each is unique

 

[sealybobo]

Every other universe is unique

Sorry, not possible, with infinite universes. Take any state of any universe, and , in infinite multiverse theory, that state has occured and will occur an infinite number of times.

Maybe more like a google of universes then. I just don’t see it. I see a flaw in that thinking and since it’s just a theory we can agree to disagree.

There is no infinite dark matter because multiverses exist. And visa versa

What's the flaw? You are the one who has more explaining to do. For instance, you have to argue why there are a google of universes, but not "a google and one" universes.

Are you familiar with the pigeonhole principle? Basically, if you have 10 pigeons amd 9 pigeonholes, you can conclude that at least one pigeonhole exists that contains at least two pigeons.

Now, a finite universe only has a finite number of possible states. These states are your "pigeonholes". And in an infinite multiverse, you have an infinite number of pigeons. So, we know at least one pigeonhole (possible state) has at least two pigeons (duplicate universes).

From here it is easy to argue all the pigeonholes contain infinite numbers of pigeons, as you can argue that no one state is any more "special" than any other.

Somewhere between a google and infinity. Universes come and go so just shy of infinity

 

[sealybobo]

Every other universe is unique

Sorry, not possible, with infinite universes. Take any state of any universe, and , in infinite multiverse theory, that state has occured and will occur an infinite number of times.

Maybe more like a google of universes then. I just don’t see it. I see a flaw in that thinking and since it’s just a theory we can agree to disagree.

There is no infinite dark matter because multiverses exist. And visa versa

What's the flaw? You are the one who has more explaining to do. For instance, you have to argue why there are a google of universes, but not "a google and one" universes.

Are you familiar with the pigeonhole principle? Basically, if you have 10 pigeons amd 9 pigeonholes, you can conclude that at least one pigeonhole exists that contains at least two pigeons.

Now, a finite universe only has a finite number of possible states. These states are your "pigeonholes". And in an infinite multiverse, you have an infinite number of pigeons. So, we know at least one pigeonhole (possible state) has at least two pigeons (duplicate universes).

From here it is easy to argue all the pigeonholes contain infinite numbers of pigeons, as you can argue that no one state is any more "special" than any other.

What do you believe?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Every other universe is unique

Sorry, not possible, with infinite universes. Take any state of any universe, and , in infinite multiverse theory, that state has occured and will occur an infinite number of times.

Maybe more like a google of universes then. I just don’t see it. I see a flaw in that thinking and since it’s just a theory we can agree to disagree.

There is no infinite dark matter because multiverses exist. And visa versa

What's the flaw? You are the one who has more explaining to do. For instance, you have to argue why there are a google of universes, but not "a google and one" universes.

Are you familiar with the pigeonhole principle? Basically, if you have 10 pigeons amd 9 pigeonholes, you can conclude that at least one pigeonhole exists that contains at least two pigeons.

Now, a finite universe only has a finite number of possible states. These states are your "pigeonholes". And in an infinite multiverse, you have an infinite number of pigeons. So, we know at least one pigeonhole (possible state) has at least two pigeons (duplicate universes).

From here it is easy to argue all the pigeonholes contain infinite numbers of pigeons, as you can argue that no one state is any more "special" than any other.

Sorry I don’t accept that. Each is unique

But can you argue that? I think you would have a hard time doing so.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Every other universe is unique

Sorry, not possible, with infinite universes. Take any state of any universe, and , in infinite multiverse theory, that state has occured and will occur an infinite number of times.

Maybe more like a google of universes then. I just don’t see it. I see a flaw in that thinking and since it’s just a theory we can agree to disagree.

There is no infinite dark matter because multiverses exist. And visa versa

What's the flaw? You are the one who has more explaining to do. For instance, you have to argue why there are a google of universes, but not "a google and one" universes.

Are you familiar with the pigeonhole principle? Basically, if you have 10 pigeons amd 9 pigeonholes, you can conclude that at least one pigeonhole exists that contains at least two pigeons.

Now, a finite universe only has a finite number of possible states. These states are your "pigeonholes". And in an infinite multiverse, you have an infinite number of pigeons. So, we know at least one pigeonhole (possible state) has at least two pigeons (duplicate universes).

From here it is easy to argue all the pigeonholes contain infinite numbers of pigeons, as you can argue that no one state is any more "special" than any other.

What do you believe?

"What do you believe?"

Well, I believe our puny little minds have come up with pretty neat and effective ways of describing and predicting what we observe. I think multiverse mathematics makes sense. If we get the correct results and predictions from this mathematics....and we do...then is that, "objective reality"? Does it mean infinite universes exist? No. Maybe it is something that cannot be known to us. It's not really a scientific idea, because it cannot be truly tested...i.e., ruled out. Maybe there are a finite number of unique universes, as you suggest. But that's not testable, either. So...I guess....who gives a shit? If the math works and is useful, then so be it.

You can believe that unique little demons reside inside every DNA base pair, and cause random mutations. I can just call them random. Maybe there are little demons? Does it really matter if one believes there are, or not?

 

[ding]

It actually does matter if people believe in a higher power. It alters the fabric of their identity.

Things like forgiveness, confession, humility and thankfulness naturally lead to happiness and success. They all serve useful purposes in our everyday lives.

 

[Taz]

It actually does matter if people believe in a higher power. It alters the fabric of their identity.

Things like forgiveness, confession, humility and thankfulness naturally lead to happiness and success. They all serve useful purposes in our everyday lives.

What about mass murder, like in a flood, what purpose does that serve?

 

[ding]

It actually does matter if people believe in a higher power. It alters the fabric of their identity.

Things like forgiveness, confession, humility and thankfulness naturally lead to happiness and success. They all serve useful purposes in our everyday lives.

What about mass murder, like in a flood, what purpose does that serve?

This is a well rounded discussion on the subject which explores all sides in an objective manner. And it answers your question.

“Religion’s Answer to the Problem of Evil”

It is close to my answer but not exactly like it. My short answer is that it serves the purpose of propelling consciousness to it's next anthropological leap. You do realize that consciousness is a phenomenon in nature that became realized when life made the leap to consciousness, right? I mean after all, you are conscious, are you not? And that consciousness is evolving just like every other phenomenon before it, right?

1. Cosmic evolution: the evolution from subatomic particles to hydrogen and helium.
2. Stellar evolution: the formation of structures from hydrogen and helium.
3. Chemical evolution: the creation of all the elements and chemical compounds from hydrogen and helium (i.e. the supernova of stars).
4. Life: the leap from non-living matter to simple life forms.
5. Consciousness: the evolution of beings that know and create from simple life forms.

What's next you say? The evolution of consciousness which is the purpose of the universe.

 

[ding]

Everything in the universe has a life / death cycle. Don't be afraid of it. It serves a purpose.

 

[sealybobo]

It actually does matter if people believe in a higher power. It alters the fabric of their identity.

Things like forgiveness, confession, humility and thankfulness naturally lead to happiness and success. They all serve useful purposes in our everyday lives.

Pahleez. I know forgiveness but I will tell you it blows my mind when the family of a victim says they forgive the murderer because the bible tells them to. I wouldn't forgive them. But neither would most Christians.

Us atheists experience forgiveness, humility and thankfulness too. I don't know about confessing though. Why bother?

 

[sealybobo]

Every other universe is unique

Sorry, not possible, with infinite universes. Take any state of any universe, and , in infinite multiverse theory, that state has occured and will occur an infinite number of times.

Not impossible

And while our universe may look as if it has a beginning, the multiverse need not have a beginning.

Mathematics of Eternity Prove The Universe Must Have Had A Beginning

 

[ding]

It actually does matter if people believe in a higher power. It alters the fabric of their identity.

Things like forgiveness, confession, humility and thankfulness naturally lead to happiness and success. They all serve useful purposes in our everyday lives.

Pahleez. I know forgiveness but I will tell you it blows my mind when the family of a victim says they forgive the murderer because the bible tells them to. I wouldn't forgive them. But neither would most Christians.

Us atheists experience forgiveness, humility and thankfulness too. I don't know about confessing though. Why bother?

What exactly do you think the purpose of forgiveness is exactly?

 

[ding]

Us atheists experience forgiveness, humility and thankfulness too. I don't know about confessing though. Why bother?

Confession, like forgiveness, humility and thankfulness serves a vital purpose. That's why one should bother.

 

[sealybobo]

Us atheists experience forgiveness, humility and thankfulness too. I don't know about confessing though. Why bother?

Confession, like forgiveness, humility and thankfulness serves a vital purpose. That's why one should bother.

What is the vital purpose?