If I Had Been President of the Confederacy. . . .

[mikegriffith1]

Anti-ICE "activists" are defying federal law, attacking ICE buildings and vehicles, obstructing ICE agents from doing their lawful duty, revealing the identifies of ICE agents, and actually assaulting ICE agents.

JoeB131:

Okay. Now replace "ICE" with "Gestapo" in that sentence, and see if it reads the same.

So in your sick mind, ICE is as bad as the Gestapo. Wow. What an utterly ridiculous and baseless comment. You again show you are on the fringe of the fringe.

Besides, you've repeatedly said that the Nazis, who made up most of the Gestapo, had valid reasons for hating the Jews.

 

[JoeB131]

Besides, you've repeatedly said that the Nazis, who made up most of the Gestapo, had valid reasons for hating the Jews.

No, I said the Germans did, given the rest of history. We could also have a discussion about how the Nazis wanted to send the Jews to Palestine, but the British didn't let them. Or how General Patton left the SS in charge of the camps and referred to the Jews as "Lower than animals" who would "Spread like locust". (This didn't show up in the George C. Scott movie, which is probably why you never heard of it.

There's a big difference between hating a group, and advocating for their mass slaughter. I really dislike Mormons. I would be against throwing a big fence around Utah and turning it into a death camp.

So in your sick mind, ICE is as bad as the Gestapo. Wow. What an utterly ridiculous and baseless comment. You again show you are on the fringe of the fringe.

Um, you might have a point. The Gestapo didn't wear masks when they were rounding up the "undesirables" and took them to camps.

 

[mikegriffith1]

No, I said the Germans did [have valid reasons for hating the Jews], given the rest of history.

LOL! You say that like it makes your sick claim less disgusting!

And, actually, you said both. You said the Nazis had valid reasons for hating the Jews and that all other Germans had valid reasons for hating the Jews, the chief reason being that the Jews supposedly sabotaged Germany after WWI, an ugly lie first promulgated by the Nazis. Clearly, you just don't grasp how bad you look when you repeat such Nazi/neo-Nazi/Jihadist propaganda.

As for your absurd Gestapo-ICE comparison chart, not one of those points is valid; they are either outright fabrications or gross exaggerations. This trash puts you on the fringe of the fringe. ICE could sue you for libel and very easily win, but I know they won't bother.

JoeB131 said:

What Mikey is trying to justify.

This is just so typical of your grade-school mentality and rank dishonesty.

One, needless to say, I'm not trying to "justify" slavery, much less justify the rare but very real cases of severe cruelty that occurred under it. No honest, rational person who read my two previous replies on slavery could conclude I'm trying to "justify" slavery in any way. But, well, you're not an honest, rational person.

Two, the fact that you would use this photo in response to my previous reply shows the grade-school level of your intellect and reasoning. I cited numerous mainstream scholars who have done extensive research into how slavery was administered. I also cited and linked a 46-page presentation of mine on the subject in one of my articles.

I know you didn't bother to read my article or any of the scholarly research that I cited, both of which include extensive quotations from interviews with thousands of former slaves.

Instead, as you always do, rather than actually try to learn something and read both sides, you went scrambling to the Internet desperately looking for anything to support what you want to believe.

In answer to all the sources and evidence I presented, your sole answer was to post a single picture of a single slave who was badly mistreated, as if that one picture somehow erases what thousands of other former slaves said about how they were treated and somehow erases the large volume of mainstream scholarly research on the conditions of slavery.

BTW, three of those scholars are black.

 

[eagle7-31]

LOL! You say that like it makes your sick claim less disgusting!

And, actually, you said both. You said the Nazis had valid reasons for hating the Jews and that all other Germans had valid reasons for hating the Jews, the chief reason being that the Jews supposedly sabotaged Germany after WWI, an ugly lie first promulgated by the Nazis. Clearly, you just don't grasp how bad you look when you repeat such Nazi/neo-Nazi/Jihadist propaganda.

As for your absurd Gestapo-ICE comparison chart, not one of those points is valid; they are either outright fabrications or gross exaggerations. This trash puts you on the fringe of the fringe. ICE could sue you for libel and very easily win, but I know they won't bother.



This is just so typical of your grade-school mentality and rank dishonesty.

One, needless to say, I'm not trying to "justify" slavery, much less justify the rare but very real cases of severe cruelty that occurred under it. No honest, rational person who read my two previous replies on slavery could conclude I'm trying to "justify" slavery in any way. But, well, you're not an honest, rational person.

Two, the fact that you would use this photo in response to my previous reply shows the grade-school level of your intellect and reasoning. I cited numerous mainstream scholars who have done extensive research into how slavery was administered. I also cited and linked a 46-page presentation of mine on the subject in one of my articles.

I know you didn't bother to read my article or any of the scholarly research that I cited, both of which include extensive quotations from interviews with thousands of former slaves.

Instead, as you always do, rather than actually try to learn something and read both sides, you went scrambling to the Internet desperately looking for anything to support what you want to believe.

In answer to all the sources and evidence I presented, your sole answer was to post a single picture of a single slave who was badly mistreated, as if that one picture somehow erases what thousands of other former slaves said about how they were treated and somehow erases the large volume of mainstream scholarly research on the conditions of slavery.

BTW, three of those scholars are black.

The above is what happened to Jefferson Davis after the war and why it was more than a bit difficult to try him for treason.

 

[JoeB131]

And, actually, you said both. You said the Nazis had valid reasons for hating the Jews and that all other Germans had valid reasons for hating the Jews, the chief reason being that the Jews supposedly sabotaged Germany after WWI, an ugly lie first promulgated by the Nazis. Clearly, you just don't grasp how bad you look when you repeat such Nazi/neo-Nazi/Jihadist propaganda.

Actually, if you knew anything about History, you'd know the "Stabbed in the Back" story started long before the Nazis. People looked at the Revolutionaries (mostly Jews) who overthrew the Kaiser and saw what a bad deal Germany got after the war.

The guys who really pushed the story were Ludendorf and Hindenburg. Not to mention other right wing parties like the DVNP.

As for your absurd Gestapo-ICE comparison chart, not one of those points is valid; they are either outright fabrications or gross exaggerations. This trash puts you on the fringe of the fringe. ICE could sue you for libel and very easily win, but I know they won't bother.

Please point out which point isn't valid. Thanks. Frankly, Trump is drawing right from the Nazi playbook on how he is treating undocumented migrants.

Demonize them
Send them to camps to be "dealt with"
Deny them any access to law.

Now, I'm sure you'll justify everything Trump is doing to the undocumented. I mean, it's not like they are white, amiright?

One, needless to say, I'm not trying to "justify" slavery, much less justify the rare but very real cases of severe cruelty that occurred under it. No honest, rational person who read my two previous replies on slavery could conclude I'm trying to "justify" slavery in any way. But, well, you're not an honest, rational person.

But yet, here you are doing it.

Two, the fact that you would use this photo in response to my previous reply shows the grade-school level of your intellect and reasoning. I cited numerous mainstream scholars who have done extensive research into how slavery was administered. I also cited and linked a 46-page presentation of mine on the subject in one of my articles.

Yup, you can find all sorts of crap on the internet, in addition to the bovine excrement you do yourself.

I think anyone who says, "Slavery wasn't that bad" should be forced to live like one for a year.

In answer to all the sources and evidence I presented, your sole answer was to post a single picture of a single slave who was badly mistreated, as if that one picture somehow erases what thousands of other former slaves said about how they were treated and somehow erases the large volume of mainstream scholarly research on the conditions of slavery.

Like the old saying goes, "A picture is worth a thousand words".

BTW, three of those scholars are black.

YOu can find sad, self-loathing Uncle Toms anywhere.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Even here, JoeB can’t leave the topic of Jews out of an OP about the Confederacy.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Even here, JoeB can’t leave the topic of Jews out of an OP about the Confederacy.

I know. It is so funny, but also sick and pathetic. He just doesn't seem to care, or just doesn't realize how badly he keeps discrediting himself.

 

[JoeB131]

I know. It is so funny, but also sick and pathetic. He just doesn't seem to care, or just doesn't realize how badly he keeps discrediting himself.

Naw, you guys have milked the WWII bullshit past its expiration date.

But let the Mossad Toady massage your ego, Crazy Mike.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Actually, if you knew anything about History, you'd know the "Stabbed in the Back" story started long before the Nazis. People looked at the Revolutionaries (mostly Jews) who overthrew the Kaiser and saw what a bad deal Germany got after the war. The guys who really pushed the story were Ludendorf and Hindenburg. Not to mention other right wing parties like the DVNP.

Oh my goodness. If you knew anything about history, you wouldn't be posting Nazi/neo-Nazi/Jihadist trash about Jews and Germany, about the USS Liberty, nor would you be posting your obscene trash about Mao, Stalin, North Vietnam, and Hamas.

FYI, the "Stabbed in the Back" myth related to the failure of the German war effort in WWI and did not place all the blame on Jews. The anti-Semitic myth that you keep repeating--that the Jews sabotaged Germany after WWI--was created by the Nazis.

Can you ever get any facts straight?

Please point out which point isn't valid.

Every single one of them is either fabricated or grossly exaggerated.

Thanks. Frankly, Trump is drawing right from the Nazi playbook on how he is treating undocumented migrants.

LOL! Yeah, uh-huh. You bet. More of your wingnut material.

Demonize them
Send them to camps to be "dealt with"
Deny them any access to law.

More nonsense.

Myth vs. Fact | Homeland Security

We have seen reporters, Members of Congress, and other groups mislead the public on the Department of Homeland Security’s (DHS) policies. This page will be updated regularly.

www.dhs.gov

DHS Debunks Fake News Demonizing ICE Officers, Sets the Record Straight on L.A. Operations | Homeland Security

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) released the following statement to set the record straight on media reports demonizing Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers as they work to remove criminal illegal aliens from American streets in Los...

www.dhs.gov

Archived: Misinformation concerning ICE operations generates unnecessary fear in local community

ICE encourages public leaders, advocacy groups and the community to share accurate information to ensure the safety of both those utilizing public transportation and those charged with ensuring their safety while aboard.

www.ice.gov

DHS Sets the Record Straight: ICE Does Not Raid Schools | Homeland Security

After media force-feeding the public stories about parents and children being scared to return to school, DHS is setting the record straight: U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) does NOT raid or target schools.

www.dhs.gov

Now, I'm sure you'll justify everything Trump is doing to the undocumented. I mean, it's not like they are white, amiright?

Thanks for sharing your racism again.

I think anyone who says, "Slavery wasn't that bad" should be forced to live like one for a year.

Even you surely must understand how dishonest and invalid this argument is. Let me know when you find someone who says "slavery wasn't that bad." If you have just minimal reading skills, you must know this is not my position. My view is that slavery was "inherently immoral" and "morally unacceptable." In fact, let me quote what I said in the reply in question:

Of course, it should go without saying that this does justify or exonerate slavery as an institution. Slavery was inherently immoral because it is wrong to hold humans in bondage for no valid reason. No matter how humanely slavery was usually administered, it was still morally unacceptable. It was in no sense a "positive good" as an institution.

Of course, you're pulling the grade-school stunt of saying that to acknowledge that most slaves were not abused is the same thing as saying that slavery wasn't all that bad.

Consider what you would say if your daughter were kidnapped and held for six months, and you found out that her captors treated her humanely while they held her captive. Now, if you simply acknowledged that your daughter's captors did not abuse her while they held her, would any sane, rational, honest person accuse you of claiming that "kidnapping wasn't all that bad"? No, of course not. Honest adults with a modicum of education and logic understand there's a big difference between describing the inherent morality of a practice and describing how the practice was carried out.

Like the old saying goes, "A picture is worth a thousand words".

Only if you have a grade-school mentality and a poor education. Again, a single picture of a single slave who was clearly abused does not cancel out the accounts of thousands of slaves who said they were treated humanely, nor does it cancel out the mountain of research done by scholars from all across the spectrum on the actual conditions of slavery.

YOu can find sad, self-loathing Uncle Toms anywhere.

This is just raw ignorance and juvenile nonsense. Two of those scholars are James and Lois Horton, two of America's leading African-American scholars on the history of civil rights in America. Only a racist idiot would accuse the Hortons of being "self-loathing Uncle Toms." Such trash just shows the gutter nature of your mindset and character.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh my goodness. If you knew anything about history, you wouldn't be posting Nazi/neo-Nazi/Jihadist trash about Jews and Germany, about the USS Liberty, nor would you be posting your obscene trash about Mao, Stalin, North Vietnam, and Hamas.

FYI, the "Stabbed in the Back" myth related to the failure of the German war effort in WWI and did not place all the blame on Jews. The anti-Semitic myth that you keep repeating--that the Jews sabotaged Germany after WWI--was created by the Nazis.

Nope, it was created by - wait for it - the German leadership.

Do I need to show you the 1919 postcard of the Jew stabbing the soldier in the back?

1919. Hitler was still a street bum in Munich. People knew what was what.

Because of the top 11 revolutionary leaders who overthrew the Kaiser, 8 of them were Jews.

LOL! Yeah, uh-huh. You bet. More of your wingnut material.

Hardly. Goebbels used to publish a "Criminal Jew Report". not different than Fox News telling us every time an undocumented person is implicated in a crime.

Thanks for sharing your racism again.

I'm not the one scooping up people of color off the street, including citizens. That would be your boy, Cheeto Hitler.

Even you surely must understand how dishonest and invalid this argument is. Let me know when you find someone who says "slavery wasn't that bad." If you have just minimal reading skills, you must know this is not my position. My view is that "inherently immoral" and "morally unacceptable." In fact, let me quote what I said in the reply in question:

Don't care, because you keep saying that "scholars" say the slaves were treated humanely.

They were slaves. They were routinely beaten, exploited for their labor, and raped to produce more little slaves.

Only if you have a grade-school mentality and a poor education. Again, a single picture of a single slave who was clearly abused does not cancel out the accounts of thousands of slaves who said they were treated humanely, nor does it cancel out the mountain of research done by scholars from all across the spectrum on the actual conditions of slavery.

Ever hear of Stockholm Syndrome? Sure some slaves came to love their abusers. Shit happens.

This is just raw ignorance and juvenile nonsense. Two of those scholars are James and Lois Horton, two of America's leading African-American scholars on the history of civil rights in America. Only a racist idiot would accuse the Hortons of being "self-loathing Uncle Toms." Such trash just shows the gutter nature of your mindset and character.

Uncle Tom gonna Uncle Tom.

 

[ding]

I'm not the one scooping up people of color off the street, including citizens.

Do I need to have the accountability talk with you again?

 

[mikegriffith1]

The above is what happened to Jefferson Davis after the war and why it was more than a bit difficult to try him for treason.

The video gets a couple of minor points wrong, but overall it's on the right track. The main problem with trying Davis for treason would have been proving that secession was unconstitutional.

It is quite revealing that Stanton, Holt, Chase et al did not feel confident enough in their case to bring Davis to trial. They knew they could not get away with trying him in a military court, which meant they would have to try him in a civilian court. Even with all of their leverage and control at the time, they knew this would be a risky proposition. Even Salmon P. Chase did not want to touch the case. They knew they were playing with fire.

When Andrew Johnson learned that Davis was being mistreated in prison, he ordered that Davis be released so as not to make a martyr of him.

 

[JoeB131]

Only if you have a grade-school mentality and a poor education. Again, a single picture of a single slave who was clearly abused does not cancel out the accounts of thousands of slaves who said they were treated humanely, nor does it cancel out the mountain of research done by scholars from all across the spectrum on the actual conditions of slavery.

Research? Did any of htat "research" involve becoming a slave for one years, working in terrible conditions, being whipped, having your family members raped or sold off?

As for your accounts of being "Treated Humanely", again, I go back to my point about Stockholm Syndrome. IN the case it was named for, hostages in a bank actually defended their abusers.

Stockholm syndrome is a psychological phenomenon where hostages or abuse victims develop positive, emotional bonds with their captors as a survival mechanism. Triggered by trauma, isolation, and small kindnesses, victims may display sympathy, defend their abusers, and distrust authorities. It is not a recognized mental disorder, but treated through psychotherapy and medication for PTSD.

Now, I want you to apply what little brains you have to that one.

Imagine you are born a slave. Imagine that every day, you live in fear of being whipped, tormented, raped, or even lynched.

You might consider a common kindness as some great thing, when really it isn't. The injustice was you being in that situation to start with.

 

[mikegriffith1]

What I still do not understand is that George Washington defied the government and went to war with the legal government and is considered a hero. Davis also left the government and is reviled.

I think one reason for this is that the American colonies had valid reasons for wanting independence, whereas the Deep South states had no valid reasons for leaving the Union. For all their complaining about the tariff, the Deep South states were thriving economically when they foolishly seceded. Moreover, the Democrats maintained control of the Senate in the 1860 election, so they could have blocked any legislation that the South did not want. And, Lincoln was not even remotely interested in disturbing slavery in the South.

 

[JoeB131]

I think one reason for this is that the American colonies had valid reasons for wanting independence, whereas the Deep South states had no valid reasons for leaving the Union. For all their complaining about the tariff, the Deep South states were thriving economically when they foolishly seceded. Moreover, the Democrats maintained control of the Senate in the 1860 election, so they could have blocked any legislation that the South did not want. And, Lincoln was not even remotely interested in disturbing slavery in the South.

Um, no, not really. We need to stop treating the Founders like they were these lofty creatures who shit marble.

The Crown wanted the colonies to help pay for a war that the colonists started. One where the British government had to bail them out. And then they conspired with France (the guys they started the war with) to rebel against the crown.

the basic American disease. We want the government to do stuff, but we don't want to pay for it.

Imagine today if the Blue States conspired with China to get independence from Trump.

If the Colonists had lost, we'd all be Canadians today. Well, we would if we lived in the East. In the Western part, that probably would have stayed part of Mexico. We'd have universal health care and slavery would have ended in 1830 when it ended in the rest of the Empire.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Um, no, not really.

Umm, yeah, really. You have no credibility to be talking about anything relating to history.

We need to stop treating the Founders like they were these lofty creatures who &^&%$ marble.

An anti-Semitic wingnut and Mao-Stalin-Hamas apologist like you is in no position to be judging the founding fathers. The framers' legal and political genius has been recognized by scholars from both sides of the spectrum.

The Crown wanted the colonies to help pay for a war that the colonists started. One where the British government had to bail them out. And then they conspired with France (the guys they started the war with) to rebel against the crown.

LOL! Oh my goodness! So you're an Imperial British apologist! You have got to be the weirdest, most aberrant and fringe person I've ever encountered on the Web.

the basic American disease. We want the government to do stuff, but we don't want to pay for it.

Blah, blah, blah. Why don't you focus on your real passion: peddling Nazi/neo-Nazi/Jihadist trash about Jews and Israel?

Imagine today if the Blue States conspired with China to get independence from Trump.

Imagine if anyone cared what an anti-Semitic wingnut and schizophrenic Mao-Stalin-Hamas apologist like you has to say. How about explaining your claim that Bush and Cheney were tapping Iris Chang's phone calls?! How about explaining your gutter claim that the Jews sabotaged Germany after WWI, and that the Nazis, along with all other Germans, therefore had valid reasons for hating the Jews?

You see, when you peddle that kind of obscene trash, you don't get to be taken seriously.

If the Colonists had lost, we'd all be Canadians today. Well, we would if we lived in the East. In the Western part, that probably would have stayed part of Mexico. We'd have universal health care and slavery would have ended in 1830 when it ended in the rest of the Empire.

Blah, blah, blah. Uh-huh, and "Hitler wasn't the problem." And powerful Jews rigged the Navy Court of Inquiry into the USS Liberty incident. And there's a vast worldwide Zionist conspiracy. And the Middle East would be a place of peace and tranquility if those lousy vermin Jews had not obtained a tiny homeland in the region. And you didn't dare voice your bizarre views in college because the Jewish faculty members would have persecuted you for doing so (yes, folks, he's actually said this). And Bush and Cheney were tapping Iris Chang's phone calls, and U.S. intel was harassing her. And Hamas's Sharia Law tyranny in Gaza is better than Israel's democracy.

I confess that I only read some of your replies, but rest assured that from time to time I will remind everyone of just what a gutter-level anti-Semitic, pro-Mao-Stalin-Hamas wingnut you are. Most forums would have long since banned you by now. You're lucky this forum is truly laissez-faire when it comes to the voicing of opinions.

 

[JoeB131]

Umm, yeah, really. You have no credibility to be talking about anything relating to history.

I have a degree in history. You have "Real Issues"

The framers' legal and political genius has been recognized by scholars from both sides of the spectrum.

Well, the Native Americans they genocided and the Blacks they enslaved would beg to differ.

LOL! Oh my goodness! So you're an Imperial British apologist! You have got to be the weirdest, most aberrant and fringe person I've ever encountered on the Web.

No, I just let myself mistake propaganda for history. You apparently do.

Blah, blah, blah. Why don't you focus on your real passion: peddling Nazi/neo-Nazi/Jihadist trash about Jews and Israel?

Duly noted you can't answer the point, Mikey.

How about explaining your claim that Bush and Cheney were tapping Iris Chang's phone calls?!

In the cosmic scheme of things, you know, starting wars over lies and torturing people, harassing poor Iris seems relatively low. But I have few doubts they did it.

How about explaining your gutter claim that the Jews sabotaged Germany after WWI, and that the Nazis, along with all other Germans, therefore had valid reasons for hating the Jews?

I've explained it many times, you just are incapable of processing it.

For those who came in late, the November 1918 Revolution was largely instigated by Jewish Socialists and Communists, forcing the Kaiser to abdicate. They then agreed to the worst peace treaty ever, which caused Germans to suffer for years. this is the history they gloss over because it's just easier to believe the Germans were all monsters.

And powerful Jews rigged the Navy Court of Inquiry into the USS Liberty incident. And there's a vast worldwide Zionist conspiracy.

Well, it's not a conspiracy if they do it in the open.

And you didn't dare voice your bizarre views in college because the Jewish faculty members would have persecuted you for doing so (yes, folks, he's actually said this).

No, actually I didn't. (I don't think any of my teachers were Jews, btw.)

I confess that I only read some of your replies,

Because you can't answer them without fake moral outrage, because that's all you got.

Most forums would have long since banned you by now. You're lucky this forum is truly laissez-faire when it comes to the voicing of opinions.

Mikey, you probably shouldn't advocate censorship. I'm sure there are people who find your views to be far more offensive than mine.

 

[mikegriffith1]

JoeB131 said:
I'm not the one scooping up people of color off the street, including citizens.

Do I need to have the accountability talk with you again?

Good luck with that. He is truly a bizarre wingnut. He repeats far-left myths about ICE but defends mass murderers and mass incarcerators such as Stalin, Mao, and Le Duan. Even more oddly, while defending Mao and Stalin, he says "Hitler wasn't the problem" and repeats the Nazi lie that the Jews sabotaged Germany after WWI, adding for good measure that therefore the Nazis (and all other Germans) had valid reasons for hating the Jews. He rails against "conspiracy theories" in many cases (including the JFK shooting) but then turns around and says there's a global Zionist conspiracy and that powerful Jews manipulated President Lyndon Johnson and the Navy Court of Inquiry into covering up Israel's allegedly deliberate attack on the USS Liberty.

Seriously, the guy is an absolute weirdo, in addition to being an obnoxious jerk.

 

[JoeB131]

Ohh, squeal like a pig, Mikey.

Good luck with that. He is truly a bizarre wingnut. He repeats far-left myths about ICE but defends mass murderers and mass incarcerators such as Stalin, Mao, and Le Duan.

Who the hell is "Le Duan"? Oh, wait, I looked it up, he's some minor functionary in Vietnam I forgot about.

Hey, did you find another white guy to tell the Vietnamese what is what?

Even more oddly, while defending Mao and Stalin, he says "Hitler wasn't the problem" and repeats the Nazi lie that the Jews sabotaged Germany after WWI, adding for good measure that therefore the Nazis (and all other Germans) had valid reasons for hating the Jews.

My relatives left Germany before Hitler came to power. After what the Jews pulled after WWI, Germans have every reason to hate them.

He rails against "conspiracy theories" in many cases (including the JFK shooting) but then turns around and says there's a global Zionist conspiracy and that powerful Jews manipulated President Lyndon Johnson and the Navy Court of Inquiry into covering up Israel's allegedly deliberate attack on the USS Liberty.

it's not a conspiracy when they do it in the open.

The question is, why do we tolerate it?