Zone1 If Homosexuality Is A Sin, Then Where Does It Come From?

[pknopp]

I am not arguing with you, I believe the same, but to do that - you have to completely upend all of the entire Christian belief system. To say that, is to say nothing in the Bible is real.
So - there is no religion at all.
Again, Paul was crystal clear in his letter to Corinth, you can deflect that (again) but one way or another you have to confront it. And to confront it, to say that you can deny or refuse to acknowledge it - then you can deny the entire book.

As noted, I accept the words of Jesus over the opinions of Paul. Otherwise we all stay single.

To believe in the New Testament is to believe that Paul was specifically chosen by God to clarify and build the foundational beliefs. And that chosen man said it with no gray area.
Just sayin.
These are among reasons I struggle with religion and faith.

I get that. I do.

Even outside of the Bible simple basic facts bear out Jesus's statement. Is everyone born the same? Absolutely not. There is no questioning that.

Is the person born with a disability sinning? Why do they have this disability? Something didnt fire right when they were developing. Why is it so hard to understand that this can be the case in all of our development? Something simply doesn't connect the same where an attraction is concerned with all people.

Why is God's creation so imperfect? I struggle with that. But it clearly is imperfect. There is no debating that. I'm going to demean people over what is?

 

[pknopp]

No human is exactly the same, it doesn't mean sin is accepted sorry.

And yet you make excuses for it in others.

 

[Hafar1014]

As noted, I accept the words of Jesus over the opinions of Paul. Otherwise we all stay single.




I get that. I do.

Even outside of the Bible simple basic facts bear out Jesus's statement. Is everyone born the same? Absolutely not. There is no questioning that.

Is the person born with a disability sinning? Why do they have this disability? Something didnt fire right when they were developing. Why is it so hard to understand that this can be the case in all of our development? Something simply doesn't connect the same where an attraction is concerned with all people.

Why is God's creation so imperfect? I struggle with that. But it clearly is imperfect. There is no debating that. I'm going to demean people over what is?

Our reality is in a state of chaos within order natural laws. Anything can happen to anyone. We have the ability to create our own reality.

 

[pknopp]

Our reality is in a state of chaos within order natural laws. Anything can happen to anyone. We have the ability to create our own reality.

In our own heads maybe but not actually in reality.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

As noted, I accept the words of Jesus over the opinions of Paul. Otherwise we all stay single.

That is facetious.
I don't know why you do this, it would be interesting to know why. You shut off part of your brain to maintain a point I can't do that.
The "single" comment - was prefaced by "this is my opinion, not God's" - he purposefully stated that. Meaning - "don't take this as I am saying this is what you have to do, I am just saying I personally believe this"
Very-Very different than his homosexual statement(s) which are not dubious at all, and isn't prefaced by anything. Black and white - you engage in homosexuality, you are not going to heaven.
That is not an opinion. It is a statement of what is in the Bible. So to dismiss it, is to be able to dismiss all of it, or any part you don't like.

 

[pknopp]

That is facetious.
I don't know why you do this, it would be interesting to know why. You shut off part of your brain to maintain a point I can't do that.
The "single" comment - was prefaced by "this is my opinion, not God's" - he purposefully stated that. Meaning - "don't take this as I am saying this is what you have to do, I am just saying I personally believe this"

Yes, an opinion. I already noted that.

So how do you determine opinions from God's actual will?

Very-Very different than his homosexual statement(s) which are not dubious at all, and isn't prefaced by anything. Black and white - you engage in homosexuality, you are not going to heaven.
That is not an opinion. It is a statement of what is in the Bible. So to dismiss it, is to be able to dismiss all of it, or any part you don't like.

You dismiss where Jesus states not everyone is born the same. Some are not born with an attraction to the opposite sex.

 

[MarcATL]

Well except Jesus.

He was born w/the ability to sin, as He was born a man, yet He did not sin.

That's the mystery of Jesus.

 

[Frankenstein]

And yet you make excuses for it in others.

Nope sin is sin I do allow for forgiveness when they repent

 

[pknopp]

Nope sin is sin I do allow for forgiveness when they repent

Facts not in evidence.

 

[Frankenstein]

Facts not in evidence.

You will have to explain! I do not judge but i will tell someone living in sin, they are living in sin if they ask, or it is being debated. I have no ability to forgive if I have not been sinned against that is for God

 

[Hafar1014]

You will have to explain! I do not judge but i will tell someone living in sin, they are living in sin if they ask, or it is being debated. I have no ability to forgive if I have not been sinned against that is for God

A sin for you isnt a sin for another. You contradicted yourself. You are judging. It isnt your place to judge

 

[iamwhatiseem]

You dismiss where Jesus states not everyone is born the same. Some are not born with an attraction to the opposite sex.

Verse? So I can see context

 

[pknopp]

You will have to explain! I do not judge but i will tell someone living in sin, they are living in sin if they ask, or it is being debated. I have no ability to forgive if I have not been sinned against that is for God

Post 191.

 

[pknopp]

Verse? So I can see context

I've posted it many times. More than once in this thread.

Matthew 19:12.

 

[ChristisKing]

Still doesn't mean he made them homosexual

No. I agree with Muhammed. I think that part comes from Satan.

Did murder come from God as well?

That makes no sense.

Murder is an act and homosexuality is an identity.

Parents could lock their children up in a closet and force them to live a certain way.

Yeah but regular parents don't do that.

What's that have to do with anything?

I wondered the same thing myself.

However, the problem for Christians to hold the belief that being gay is okay - is they have to ignore Paul. A man specifically chosen by God to clarify Christian faith and to provide instruction to early churches. And his words on homosexuality are crystal clear - be gay and you go to hell.

There's two problems with that statement:

1. Being homosexual isn't a sin, homosexuality is.

2. Those who are truly born again don't go to Hell even gays. John 3:16

Paul also said it was best for a Christian to not marry.

Yeah but wasn't that during a really violent time in the Bible where their lives were in danger? I forgot what exactly was going on though.

"you will know them by their fruits"

Matthew 7 16-20

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When Christian's say, "homosexuality is a sin" the only thing homosexuals will hear is "they are a sin

Yep, but the thing is we also call a murder a murder, a thief a thief, and a liar a liar.

He was born w/the ability to sin, as He was born a man, yet He did not sin.

That's the mystery of Jesus.

I believe that too but that's an entirely different subject and I really don't want to go down that rabbit hole right now.

 

[DGS49]

Everyone is inclined to sin. The inclination itself is not sinful, but giving into it can be sinful.

A single homosexual man has exactly the same moral obligation as a single heterosexual man. A homo is no more driven to copulate than a hetero - no more compelled to sin.

Lesbians are not driven to copulate with anyone. They are simply women who want nothing to do sexually with a man, so seek solace with women, sometimes (but not always) including various methods of mutual masturbation.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I've posted it many times. More than once in this thread.

Matthew 19:12.

That says nothing about homosexuality, or sexual attractions.
A eunuch is a person, by force or by choice, has taken on a life of celibacy. It is a statement, among others about celibacy, that celibacy is an accepted way of life in being religious.

 

[pknopp]

That says nothing about homosexuality, or sexual attractions.

Yes it does. Eunuchs were men without any ability to diddle around with the king's wives.

A eunuch is a person, by force or by choice, has taken on a life of celibacy. It is a statement, among others about celibacy, that celibacy is an accepted way of life in being religious.

Or as Jesus noted, by birth. Why ask for the scripture if you are just going to ignore it?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

He was born w/the ability to sin, as He was born a man, yet He did not sin.

That's the mystery of Jesus.

Because he was filled with the Holy Spirit

 

[pknopp]

Because he was filled with the Holy Spirit

That hasn't stopped others.