“If God does not exist, then all things are permitted.”

[Bonzi]

We the People have recognized all men are created equal
We have abolished slavery, the Bible never did
We recognize homosexuals as our fellow man
We recognize the equal rights of women
We recognize the need to protect the environment
We have moved away from capital punishment

All without a God telling us us to do it

Slavery was not originally part of God's plan for us. Man did that.
Homosexuals are recognized as fellow man and loved by God and true Christian's. It's the acting on those homosexual feelings that is the sin.
Men and women have Godly roles specified in the Bible. There is a purpose for it.
This Earth is going to Die. It's prophesied.

Move away from capital punishment, but approve of abortions... please explain.

 

[Bonzi]

... agree or disagree? .... and why?

If god does not exist, and another person tries to harm me, I will shoot them. Looks like harming me is not permitted, even though god does not exist...

It's permitted. But there is a price for it.
The action is allowable and you don't have to ASK anyone to do it.
The consequence is another thing....

 

[Bonzi]

The onus is on you to prove your god exists since you made the claim.

The Law of the Land elsewhere is irrelevant.

Thank you for admitting that it is only your delusional belief in an imaginary being that is stopping you from committing crimes.

Atheists, like myself, have principles that keep us honest.

Actually the onus is on God to reveal Himself to you, and if He has not already, will at some point in your life and you will either reject Him or not....

As or the other, I used to be an atheist and, fear of prison and/or death held me back, but I lived a very sinful and wicked life before I became a Christian.

Not everyone has principles. And they are all varied.

So tell me, since you don't believe in God, do you think there is really any "end game" purpose to human life?

Is there any end game or purpose to the life of any species?

If there isn't for squirrels or wasps then why should there be one for our species?

Onus is on you to provide evidence of the "end game".

I'm speaking truth to you, which will lead to proof.
What kind of proof would be sufficient for you? None, I would think, because you will rationalize it away.

There is no end game purpose to life.... without God.

The "end game" is yet to come. Only God can draw you to Him. I can not. Therein is the proof.

 

[Derideo_Te]

If there is no God and thus, no afterlife, you just live and you die, you certainly would be dum

Without God, morality is self-defined.

Why is that bad thing?

I am more than capable of coming up with my own morality.

Relationships are based on trust and so betraying that trust would be immoral hence I value the trust enough to be moral. I don't need your imaginary being to dictate that morality since I was more than capable of figuring it out for myself.

Ever notice how those who want government to butt out of their lives are more than willing to force their religion into the lives of others, by force of government if needs be?

So no, your imaginary god does not define my morality.

If there is no God and morality is self-defined, there is chaos. Do you think everyone is going to have the same moral code? Probably not.

Also, people don't have control of other people.
God has control. But people just don't like to hear that.

Who is forcing their religion on others? People will strong convictions are going to stand by them, it's called commitment. And demanding to be heard is a right all people have. Even Christians.

We the People control ourselves through something called society.

We organize ourselves and have Laws of the Land to maintain order.

We the People uphold your right to believe whatever fairy tales about mythical beings you want as long to as you keep them to yourself and don't try to force others to comply with your delusions.

We the People don't need your imaginary being or his perverted "morality" that discriminates against our fellow Americans.

When you are dying, I hope your humanistic laws are of great comfort to you.....
I would give Christianity a bit more consideration and heartfelt thought.....

Thank you for tacitly admitting that your faith is entirely fear based.

You are scared of dying so you delude yourself into believing in superstitious myths that probably came from the stone age and were only recorded in the bronze age.

No, I am not scared of dying because it is just another part of the cycle of life. If there is an "afterlife" at least I won't be going into it with a whole bunch of stupid illusions that will probably be shattered by the reality of whatever it may be. And if there isn't then I won't have wasted this life pretending that it exists which puts me ahead of the game.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The onus is on you to prove your god exists since you made the claim.

The Law of the Land elsewhere is irrelevant.

Thank you for admitting that it is only your delusional belief in an imaginary being that is stopping you from committing crimes.

Atheists, like myself, have principles that keep us honest.

Actually the onus is on God to reveal Himself to you, and if He has not already, will at some point in your life and you will either reject Him or not....

As or the other, I used to be an atheist and, fear of prison and/or death held me back, but I lived a very sinful and wicked life before I became a Christian.

Not everyone has principles. And they are all varied.

So tell me, since you don't believe in God, do you think there is really any "end game" purpose to human life?

Is there any end game or purpose to the life of any species?

If there isn't for squirrels or wasps then why should there be one for our species?

Onus is on you to provide evidence of the "end game".

I'm speaking truth to you, which will lead to proof.
What kind of proof would be sufficient for you? None, I would think, because you will rationalize it away.

There is no end game purpose to life.... without God.

The "end game" is yet to come. Only God can draw you to Him. I can not. Therein is the proof.

Nope, therein lies your delusion.

You have zero proof and just want others to validate your delusion by becoming deluded themselves.

I will stick with reality because delusions make people do some seriously weird things.

 

[rightwinger]

If there is no God and thus, no afterlife, you just live and you die, you certainly would be dum

Without God, morality is self-defined.

Why is that bad thing?

I am more than capable of coming up with my own morality.

Relationships are based on trust and so betraying that trust would be immoral hence I value the trust enough to be moral. I don't need your imaginary being to dictate that morality since I was more than capable of figuring it out for myself.

Ever notice how those who want government to butt out of their lives are more than willing to force their religion into the lives of others, by force of government if needs be?

So no, your imaginary god does not define my morality.

If there is no God and morality is self-defined, there is chaos. Do you think everyone is going to have the same moral code? Probably not.

Also, people don't have control of other people.
God has control. But people just don't like to hear that.

Who is forcing their religion on others? People will strong convictions are going to stand by them, it's called commitment. And demanding to be heard is a right all people have. Even Christians.

We the People control ourselves through something called society.

We organize ourselves and have Laws of the Land to maintain order.

We the People uphold your right to believe whatever fairy tales about mythical beings you want as long to as you keep them to yourself and don't try to force others to comply with your delusions.

We the People don't need your imaginary being or his perverted "morality" that discriminates against our fellow Americans.

We the People have recognized all men are created equal
We have abolished slavery, the Bible never did
We recognize homosexuals as our fellow man
We recognize the equal rights of women
We recognize the need to protect the environment
We have moved away from capital punishment

All without a God telling us us to do it

Actually, our society is more moral than the society advocated in the Bible

So much for needing God

 

[Uncensored2008]

It's permitted. But there is a price for it.
The action is allowable and you don't have to ASK anyone to do it.
The consequence is another thing....

The action is not allowable. Christians do things not allowable all the time. Defending oneself is a human right, regardless of religion. In fact, religion is often an excuse to demand that people not defend themselves, the Muslims are good at that one.

The most moral precept I know is that no one has the right to INITIATE force against another. That is attributed to Murray Rothbard, an agnostic, married to Christian woman, but still a professed agnostic. (I know people like to claim Rothbard was Christian, but he wasn't.)

 

[Uncensored2008]

Actually, our society is more moral than the society advocated in the Bible

So much for needing God

You have a fucked up definition of "moral."

 

[Moonglow]

If there is no God and thus, no afterlife, you just live and you die, you certainly would be dum

Without God, morality is self-defined.

Why is that bad thing?

I am more than capable of coming up with my own morality.

Relationships are based on trust and so betraying that trust would be immoral hence I value the trust enough to be moral. I don't need your imaginary being to dictate that morality since I was more than capable of figuring it out for myself.

Ever notice how those who want government to butt out of their lives are more than willing to force their religion into the lives of others, by force of government if needs be?

So no, your imaginary god does not define my morality.

If there is no God and morality is self-defined, there is chaos. Do you think everyone is going to have the same moral code? Probably not.

Also, people don't have control of other people.
God has control. But people just don't like to hear that.

Who is forcing their religion on others? People will strong convictions are going to stand by them, it's called commitment. And demanding to be heard is a right all people have. Even Christians.

Where was God when the natives were pushed out and killed by the Christian nation you inhabit?

As I told you before, all evil in the world is our own doing.
Lack of obedience ruined it from the beginning and lack of submission and obedience to God continues be ruinous to us today.....

No Father wants their child to be submissive their entire life.What warped sect to you belong to?

 

[Anathema]

... agree or disagree? .... and why?

NO. Universal Morality still governs the world regardless of whether religion exists or not.

 

[Bonzi]

If there is no God and thus, no afterlife, you just live and you die, you certainly would be dum

Without God, morality is self-defined.

Why is that bad thing?

I am more than capable of coming up with my own morality.

Relationships are based on trust and so betraying that trust would be immoral hence I value the trust enough to be moral. I don't need your imaginary being to dictate that morality since I was more than capable of figuring it out for myself.

Ever notice how those who want government to butt out of their lives are more than willing to force their religion into the lives of others, by force of government if needs be?

So no, your imaginary god does not define my morality.

If there is no God and morality is self-defined, there is chaos. Do you think everyone is going to have the same moral code? Probably not.

Also, people don't have control of other people.
God has control. But people just don't like to hear that.

Who is forcing their religion on others? People will strong convictions are going to stand by them, it's called commitment. And demanding to be heard is a right all people have. Even Christians.

Where was God when the natives were pushed out and killed by the Christian nation you inhabit?

As I told you before, all evil in the world is our own doing.
Lack of obedience ruined it from the beginning and lack of submission and obedience to God continues be ruinous to us today.....

No Father wants their child to be submissive their entire life.What warped sect to you belong to?

What's wrong with submitting to someone?
Especially the Almighty Father who loves you unconditionally?

 

[Bonzi]

... agree or disagree? .... and why?

NO. Universal Morality still governs the world regardless of whether religion exists or not.

You believe there is ONE universal morality?
Give me one example.

 

[Anathema]

You believe there is ONE universal morality? Give me one example.

Yes I do believe there is a Singular Morality.

An example would be..... The Right of an Individual to use deadly force to protect themselves, their family, snd their property.

 

[bodecea]

... agree or disagree? .... and why?

Disagree. It is a weak or immature person who needs fear of an afterlife punishment to do good by their fellow man. Empathy doesn't require a deity.

 

[Bonzi]

Thank you for tacitly admitting that your faith is entirely fear based.

You are scared of dying so you delude yourself into believing in superstitious myths that probably came from the stone age and were only recorded in the bronze age.

No, I am not scared of dying because it is just another part of the cycle of life. If there is an "afterlife" at least I won't be going into it with a whole bunch of stupid illusions that will probably be shattered by the reality of whatever it may be. And if there isn't then I won't have wasted this life pretending that it exists which puts me ahead of the game.

Oh good grief...

If I said or gave the impression that is what my faith is based on, I am not communicating properly apparently!
Even when I was an atheist, I didn't fear death. I didn't WANT to die, but, I put myself in some interesting situations! I turned to God because I realized I had a hole that nothing in this world would fill. One that only GOD can fill! I was spiritually broken.

People that don't believe will see this as nonsense so I totally understand where you are coming from. I'm not even arguing with you about that. But you do say things where I feel compelled to reply because they are really not either how I feel or how I believe.....

Real faith and belief is not fear based. It's love based. It's realizing humility and submission to your God and creator is for YOUR benefit! Not because he demands it, but because it brings you into right relationship with Him. A perfect love.

 

[Bonzi]

... agree or disagree? .... and why?

Disagree. It is a weak or immature person who needs fear of an afterlife punishment to do good by their fellow man. Empathy doesn't require a deity.

People that turn to God to avoid Hell are either not Christians or don't understand what being a Christian is about. I can't tell you if people are saved or not, but, you can just "decide" to be a Christian to avoid Hell.

 

[Bonzi]

You believe there is ONE universal morality? Give me one example.

Yes I do believe there is a Singular Morality.

An example would be..... The Right of an Individual to use deadly force to protect themselves, their family, snd their property.

Everyone on the planet would have to agree with that. Do you think they do?

 

[bodecea]

God exists. Without Him anything goes, which is why the Left dupes many into believing He is fiction, while ridiculing anyone who believes.

So...without god you have no empathy for others?

 

[Anathema]

Everyone on the planet would have to agree with that. Do you think they do?

You make the classic mistake of believing that human beings have any legitimate input into Right snd Wrong. Right and Wrong exist no matter who agrees or disagrees with them.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Thank you for tacitly admitting that your faith is entirely fear based.

You are scared of dying so you delude yourself into believing in superstitious myths that probably came from the stone age and were only recorded in the bronze age.

No, I am not scared of dying because it is just another part of the cycle of life. If there is an "afterlife" at least I won't be going into it with a whole bunch of stupid illusions that will probably be shattered by the reality of whatever it may be. And if there isn't then I won't have wasted this life pretending that it exists which puts me ahead of the game.

Oh good grief...

If I said or gave the impression that is what my faith is based on, I am not communicating properly apparently!
Even when I was an atheist, I didn't fear death. I didn't WANT to die, but, I put myself in some interesting situations! I turned to God because I realized I had a hole that nothing in this world would fill. One that only GOD can fill! I was spiritually broken.

People that don't believe will see this as nonsense so I totally understand where you are coming from. I'm not even arguing with you about that. But you do say things where I feel compelled to reply because they are really not either how I feel or how I believe.....

Real faith and belief is not fear based. It's love based. It's realizing humility and submission to your God and creator is for YOUR benefit! Not because he demands it, but because it brings you into right relationship with Him. A perfect love.

You are deluding yourself into believing this "perfect love relationship" exists between you and your imaginary god.

Love exists between a parent and a child and that is supposed to be unconditional but not every parent is a good one although the majority are.

Your god is demanding love from you and giving nothing in return because he doesn't exist. Furthermore your relationship with your god is not unconditional love because there is an entire book of silly conditions that you are supposed to meet, but can't, because some of them downright idiotic and others are utterly unrealistic.

So you have filled a void in yourself with delusions. You have the right to do so and I support your right to do so.

I have no such void because I have real flesh and blood loved ones. My daughter never says goodbye when she leaves, instead she says "love you".

My spouse and I have been together for 41 years now and we still love each other because we know that having a meaningful relationship means that we both have to work on it together. Give and take, compromise, filling in for each other's weaknesses.

You don't get any of that from your delusion.

So you still have a void and you have to delude yourself that it is filled and try to convert others to embrace your delusion in order to validate yourself that your delusional is a "real relationship".

And no, it isn't