I will not Bow!

[Phoenall]

So the Zionists had the help of the British to invade and take over their country.

Well then, that makes it OK.

1) There was no country called Palestine during this time. You keep repeating this lie over and over. Nor was their an invasion. I explained to why this is so, and you choose to ignore that.

2) The British had the authority to invite them and fascilitate their immigration. Who were the Palestinians to say weather or not they could come???? It was NOT THEIR COUNTRY.

3) You have now reached expert level in Palestinian propaganda

4) There was no country called Palestine during this time

5) There was no country called Palestine during this time (is there now?? I say no)

6) You STILL haven't shown me where you get your info from concerning the events leading up to Israels declaration, as well as the 1948 Arab - Israeli war.

Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions...

Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country,...

...provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country,...

...develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country...

The Administration of Palestine may organist on a voluntary basis the forces necessary for the preservation of peace and order, and also for the defence of the country,...

...promote the development of the natural resources of the country and to safeguard the interests of the population.

No antiquity may leave the country without an export licence from the said Department.

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

From your link in its entirety and not butchered it says this

ART. 4.

An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.


ART. 6.

The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.


ART. 7.

The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine


ART. 11.

The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country, and, subject to any international obligations accepted by the Mandatory, shall have full power to provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country, having regard, among other things, to the desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive cultivation of the land.

The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country in a manner approved by the Administration.




So it seems that you are manipulation the written word to suit your POV once again

 

[Phoenall]

1) There was no country called Palestine during this time. You keep repeating this lie over and over. Nor was their an invasion. I explained to why this is so, and you choose to ignore that.

2) The British had the authority to invite them and fascilitate their immigration. Who were the Palestinians to say weather or not they could come???? It was NOT THEIR COUNTRY.

3) You have now reached expert level in Palestinian propaganda

4) There was no country called Palestine during this time

5) There was no country called Palestine during this time (is there now?? I say no)

6) You STILL haven't shown me where you get your info from concerning the events leading up to Israels declaration, as well as the 1948 Arab - Israeli war.

Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions...

Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country,...

...provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country,...

...develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country...

The Administration of Palestine may organist on a voluntary basis the forces necessary for the preservation of peace and order, and also for the defence of the country,...

...promote the development of the natural resources of the country and to safeguard the interests of the population.

No antiquity may leave the country without an export licence from the said Department.

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

Really?? Again?? This??

You're so funny. You get owned in the previous argument concerning this issue, and the next time it comes up, you pretend it never happened.


When did Palestine become a country?? What day, month and year?

August 6, 1924

Even after all this , you proved nothing.

If they were a country already, why did they declare independence in 1948 (unrecognized)

If they were country, why did they declare independence in 1988

If they were already a country, what was the whole point of the U.N partition plan, which was supposed to give the 'Palestinians' a sovereign country.

If Palestine was a country, why did they have no sovereignty during the period of 1948 and before

If Palestine was a country, why didn't they do anything about the Zionist immigration that they opposed so much??

The answer is, obviously, because Palestine was NOT a country.

He is trying to pass of the mandate of Palestine as a country because the League of Nations worded its document to say country and not unspecific area known as . It is called clutching at straws, and he has so few straws left that unless he learns how to swim he will drown.

 

[Phoenall]

Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions...

Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country,...

...provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country,...

...develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country...

The Administration of Palestine may organist on a voluntary basis the forces necessary for the preservation of peace and order, and also for the defence of the country,...

...promote the development of the natural resources of the country and to safeguard the interests of the population.

No antiquity may leave the country without an export licence from the said Department.

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

August 6, 1924

Even after all this , you proved nothing.

If they were a country already, why did they declare independence in 1948 (unrecognized)

If they were country, why did they declare independence in 1988

If they were already a country, what was the whole point of the U.N partition plan, which was supposed to give the 'Palestinians' a sovereign country.

If Palestine was a country, why did they have no sovereignty during the period of 1948 and before

If Palestine was a country, why didn't they do anything about the Zionist immigration that they opposed so much??

The answer is, obviously, because Palestine was NOT a country.

Why ask questions if my answers prove nothing to you?

Because you have cherry picked parts of sentences to support and defend your POV, showing that you yourself know that you are walking on thin ice. It is a desperate measure used by many to gain some respectability before going down in flames.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Treaty of Lausanne came into force on August 6, 1924.

August 6, 1924

(COMMENT)

There is nothing in the Treaty that discusses Palestine or the Palestinians. It does not mention citizenship, and the Treaty Section on "Nationality" (Section II, Articles 30 thru 36) makes not such assertion. Additionally, Article 5 - discussion the Boundary Commission refers to Article 2 Territories, which doesn't include the region of the undefined Palestine. Article 3 covers the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia (not Article 2); however Article 8 allows the Boundary Commission to assist the Allied Powers over the region in terms of transport, accommodation, labour, materials (sign posts, boundary pillars), but no specifics (optional retainer).

So, I am again confused. Is it your intention to suggest the Treaty of Lausanne somehow overrides Article 22 of the League of Nation Covenant or the Mandate of Palestine (which covers the instrumentality for nationality law)?

I have heard this claim before by pro-Palestinians - that the Treaty of Lausanne somehow makes an impact. But other than to repeat the claim, they have never been able to show me specifically where this matter is discussed. Can you?

Most Respectfully,
R

Where do you see an inconsistency?

In your false claims that are not supported by the evidence you provide

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK

Responding to a questions with another questions; it's called the Tinmore Tactic
Were you saying that the Treaty of Lausanne is what made Palestine a country for Palestinians ?

I can't answer his question if I don't know what he is asking.

(COMMENT)

Where in the Treaty of Lausanne does it make Palestine a country?

Many pro-Palestinian have made that claim, but, none have been able to show it substance.

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestine was named. Its international borders were defined. The nationality of Palestinians was determined. Palestinians were to be citizens of Palestine.

All of this, however, was all de facto. Legally, Palestine was still Turkish territory and Palestinians were Turkish citizens.

The Treaty of Lausanne changed all that. Palestine changed from a territory of Turkey to a successor state making du jure all of those things that were de facto before the treaty was signed.

Even though Palestine was not mentioned by name, the provisions applied universally to all of the new states that were ceded from Turkey.

 

[Phoenall]

Where do you see an inconsistency?

Responding to a questions with another questions; it's called the Tinmore Tactic
Were you saying that the Treaty of Lausanne is what made Palestine a country for Palestinians ?

I can't answer his question if I don't know what he is asking.

Simple enough here it is for you again

Is it your intention to suggest the Treaty of Lausanne somehow overrides Article 22 of the League of Nation Covenant or the Mandate of Palestine (which covers the instrumentality for nationality law)?

 

[Phoenall]

Who decided that it was a de facto country with a ruler, currency and infrastructure. Or are you referring to your usual rubbish that did not say this is Palestine the country.

EVIDENCE EVIDENCE EVIDENCE

They didn't have to be a country.

They had an indigenous population that had (and has) inalienable rights.

That consisted of Jews, Christians and nomadic arabs, the rest were itinerant farm workers from outside the region. Are you saying that only the nomadic arabs had any rights, while the Jews and Christians had none. Or are you saying that a foreign interloper has more rights than an indigenous Jew, Chritian and arab nomad ?

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK

I can't answer his question if I don't know what he is asking.

(COMMENT)

Where in the Treaty of Lausanne does it make Palestine a country?

Many pro-Palestinian have made that claim, but, none have been able to show it substance.

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestine was named. Its international borders were defined. The nationality of Palestinians was determined. Palestinians were to be citizens of Palestine.

All of this, however, was all de facto. Legally, Palestine was still Turkish territory and Palestinians were Turkish citizens.

The Treaty of Lausanne changed all that. Palestine changed from a territory of Turkey to a successor state making du jure all of those things that were de facto before the treaty was signed.

Even though Palestine was not mentioned by name, the provisions applied universally to all of the new states that were ceded from Turkey.

never mind the generalities lets have the specifics in full.
Were is the area of Palestine you are referring to mentioned, and not the greater area of Palestine that the mandate refers to

Which International Borders and do you have a map of these borders that states this is Palestine according the Lausanne treaty.

What nationality was determined in the Lausanne treaty other than that of the next nation to take control ( in this case Britain )

Were does it say that in the Lausanne treaty ?

Right up until the mandate took effect and they then became British subjects, under British rule and covered by British laws.

No they became de jure British subjects as International Law dictated, they did not become an autonomous nation.

So you admit that you are putting words into a legal document so it supports your POV, this evidence would never stand up in a court of law. So why do you expect it to stand up on a message board

 

[P F Tinmore]

Responding to a questions with another questions; it's called the Tinmore Tactic
Were you saying that the Treaty of Lausanne is what made Palestine a country for Palestinians ?

I can't answer his question if I don't know what he is asking.

Simple enough here it is for you again

Is it your intention to suggest the Treaty of Lausanne somehow overrides Article 22 of the League of Nation Covenant or the Mandate of Palestine (which covers the instrumentality for nationality law)?

I don't see where it does. That is why I asked for a clarification on that point.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK

I can't answer his question if I don't know what he is asking.

(COMMENT)

Where in the Treaty of Lausanne does it make Palestine a country?

Many pro-Palestinian have made that claim, but, none have been able to show it substance.

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestine was named. Its international borders were defined. The nationality of Palestinians was determined. Palestinians were to be citizens of Palestine.

All of this, however, was all de facto. Legally, Palestine was still Turkish territory and Palestinians were Turkish citizens.

The Treaty of Lausanne changed all that. Palestine changed from a territory of Turkey to a successor state making du jure all of those things that were de facto before the treaty was signed.

Even though Palestine was not mentioned by name, the provisions applied universally to all of the new states that were ceded from Turkey.

make your mind up as you have contradicted yourself in the above post.

NOW EITHER PALESTINE IS NAMED OR IT ISN'T, WHICH BRANCH ARE YOU GOING FOR

 

[Phoenall]

I can't answer his question if I don't know what he is asking.

Simple enough here it is for you again

Is it your intention to suggest the Treaty of Lausanne somehow overrides Article 22 of the League of Nation Covenant or the Mandate of Palestine (which covers the instrumentality for nationality law)?

I don't see where it does. That is why I asked for a clarification on that point.

Thank you as you have just stated that your evidence is flawed and clouded by your personal views You have constantly stated that the treaty of Lausanne overrides the League of nations and the mandate of Palestine. Now you are contradicting yourself again

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK


(COMMENT)

Where in the Treaty of Lausanne does it make Palestine a country?

Many pro-Palestinian have made that claim, but, none have been able to show it substance.

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestine was named. Its international borders were defined. The nationality of Palestinians was determined. Palestinians were to be citizens of Palestine.

All of this, however, was all de facto. Legally, Palestine was still Turkish territory and Palestinians were Turkish citizens.

The Treaty of Lausanne changed all that. Palestine changed from a territory of Turkey to a successor state making du jure all of those things that were de facto before the treaty was signed.

Even though Palestine was not mentioned by name, the provisions applied universally to all of the new states that were ceded from Turkey.

never mind the generalities lets have the specifics in full.
Were is the area of Palestine you are referring to mentioned, and not the greater area of Palestine that the mandate refers to

Which International Borders and do you have a map of these borders that states this is Palestine according the Lausanne treaty.

What nationality was determined in the Lausanne treaty other than that of the next nation to take control ( in this case Britain )

Were does it say that in the Lausanne treaty ?

Right up until the mandate took effect and they then became British subjects, under British rule and covered by British laws.

No they became de jure British subjects as International Law dictated, they did not become an autonomous nation.

So you admit that you are putting words into a legal document so it supports your POV, this evidence would never stand up in a court of law. So why do you expect it to stand up on a message board

You are basing your conclusions on false premise.
---------------------------
In a broader international context, the “Nationality law… showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship.”90 The inclusion of Palestinian nationality in the text of the Palestine Mandate was the first step towards an international recognition of the Palestinian people as distinct from the Ottoman people and other peoples. Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constitutes the formula by which a certain group of individuals are being legally connected and enabled to form the people element of the state.91

With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:

“(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
(2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92​

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

 

[rhodescholar]

You obviously lack intellect or have a heart...

You obviously lack brains, period. Like so many other fake peace advocates, you have no answer for the following 2 questions/statements:

1) Since Israel was NOT in the West Bank from 1948-1967, and allegedly this conflict is based upon land, why was there so much terrorism and attacks against it at that time?

2) If Israel agrees to pulling out of the West Bank and the terrorism continues, then what? Will you and the other feces admit that this is not a conflict over land, but of sovereignty, and that land is a fig leaf for the arab muslim filth? Will you and the other turd accept Israel's massive and appropriate responses when they are, yet again, attacked 5, 10, and 20 years AFTER this fake "peace deal" is signed?

Scum like you has no answer to the first question, and lack the brains to honestly admit that you and the other dogshit will still rail against all and any responses from Israel even after it has completely pulled out of the West Bank.

I can only laugh at ******* garbage like you, because if Israel vanished tomorrow, the muslim filth will then have one less target to strike on the list other than the US and Europe.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is incorrect.

Palestine was named. Its international borders were defined. The nationality of Palestinians was determined. Palestinians were to be citizens of Palestine.

All of this, however, was all de facto. Legally, Palestine was still Turkish territory and Palestinians were Turkish citizens.

The Treaty of Lausanne changed all that. Palestine changed from a territory of Turkey to a successor state making du jure all of those things that were de facto before the treaty was signed.

Even though Palestine was not mentioned by name, the provisions applied universally to all of the new states that were ceded from Turkey.

never mind the generalities lets have the specifics in full.
Were is the area of Palestine you are referring to mentioned, and not the greater area of Palestine that the mandate refers to

Which International Borders and do you have a map of these borders that states this is Palestine according the Lausanne treaty.

What nationality was determined in the Lausanne treaty other than that of the next nation to take control ( in this case Britain )

Were does it say that in the Lausanne treaty ?

Right up until the mandate took effect and they then became British subjects, under British rule and covered by British laws.

No they became de jure British subjects as International Law dictated, they did not become an autonomous nation.

So you admit that you are putting words into a legal document so it supports your POV, this evidence would never stand up in a court of law. So why do you expect it to stand up on a message board

You are basing your conclusions on false premise.
---------------------------
In a broader international context, the “Nationality law… showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship.”90 The inclusion of Palestinian nationality in the text of the Palestine Mandate was the first step towards an international recognition of the Palestinian people as distinct from the Ottoman people and other peoples. Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constitutes the formula by which a certain group of individuals are being legally connected and enabled to form the people element of the state.91

With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:

“(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
(2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92​

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

(COMMENT)

The Treaty of Lausanne merely protects the Mandatory from the indigenous population of various regions from automatically assuming the citizenship of the Mandatory. The Treaty of Lausanne does not define Palestine at all, nor does it extend to it any sovereignty.

In fact, the Treaty of Lausanne does not even mention Palestine; let alone set the boundaries to which "the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State" (as you claim). No international court holds that interpretation, not even the Arab League. Even the Arab League recognizes the 1988 Declaration as the creation of the Palestine State.

This is just some half-baked attempt to twist history into the frame favorable to the Palestinian cause. But Prior to November 1988, there was no Palestine State.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK

I can't answer his question if I don't know what he is asking.

(COMMENT)

Where in the Treaty of Lausanne does it make Palestine a country?

Many pro-Palestinian have made that claim, but, none have been able to show it substance.

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestine was named. Its international borders were defined. The nationality of Palestinians was determined. Palestinians were to be citizens of Palestine.

All of this, however, was all de facto. Legally, Palestine was still Turkish territory and Palestinians were Turkish citizens.

The Treaty of Lausanne changed all that. Palestine changed from a territory of Turkey to a successor state making du jure all of those things that were de facto before the treaty was signed.

Even though Palestine was not mentioned by name, the provisions applied universally to all of the new states that were ceded from Turkey.

Are you saying that nowhere in the Treaty of Laussane does it say Palestine was to be made a country for the Palestinians?? YES or NO ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is incorrect.

never mind the generalities lets have the specifics in full.
Were is the area of Palestine you are referring to mentioned, and not the greater area of Palestine that the mandate refers to

Which International Borders and do you have a map of these borders that states this is Palestine according the Lausanne treaty.

What nationality was determined in the Lausanne treaty other than that of the next nation to take control ( in this case Britain )

Were does it say that in the Lausanne treaty ?

Right up until the mandate took effect and they then became British subjects, under British rule and covered by British laws.

No they became de jure British subjects as International Law dictated, they did not become an autonomous nation.

So you admit that you are putting words into a legal document so it supports your POV, this evidence would never stand up in a court of law. So why do you expect it to stand up on a message board

You are basing your conclusions on false premise.
---------------------------
In a broader international context, the “Nationality law… showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship.”90 The inclusion of Palestinian nationality in the text of the Palestine Mandate was the first step towards an international recognition of the Palestinian people as distinct from the Ottoman people and other peoples. Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constitutes the formula by which a certain group of individuals are being legally connected and enabled to form the people element of the state.91

With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:

“(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
(2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92​

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

(COMMENT)

The Treaty of Lausanne merely protects the Mandatory from the indigenous population of various regions from automatically assuming the citizenship of the Mandatory. The Treaty of Lausanne does not define Palestine at all, nor does it extend to it any sovereignty.

Do you have a link to that?

In fact, the Treaty of Lausanne does not even mention Palestine; let alone set the boundaries to which "the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State" (as you claim). No international court holds that interpretation, not even the Arab League. Even the Arab League recognizes the 1988 Declaration as the creation of the Palestine State.

You need to re read my posts. I didn't say that.

This is just some half-baked attempt to twist history into the frame favorable to the Palestinian cause. But Prior to November 1988, there was no Palestine State.

What right to declare independence did the Palestinians have in 1988 that they did not have in 1948?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is incorrect.

You are basing your conclusions on false premise.
---------------------------
In a broader international context, the “Nationality law… showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship.”90 The inclusion of Palestinian nationality in the text of the Palestine Mandate was the first step towards an international recognition of the Palestinian people as distinct from the Ottoman people and other peoples. Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constitutes the formula by which a certain group of individuals are being legally connected and enabled to form the people element of the state.91

With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:

“(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
(2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92​

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

(COMMENT)

The Treaty of Lausanne merely protects the Mandatory from the indigenous population of various regions from automatically assuming the citizenship of the Mandatory. The Treaty of Lausanne does not define Palestine at all, nor does it extend to it any sovereignty.

Do you have a link to that?


You need to re read my posts. I didn't say that.

This is just some half-baked attempt to twist history into the frame favorable to the Palestinian cause. But Prior to November 1988, there was no Palestine State.

What right to declare independence did the Palestinians have in 1988 that they did not have in 1948?

Most Respectfully,
R

You should respond to his questions before you ask any.

You need to re read my posts. I didn't say that.

I asked you what day,month,year did Palestine become a country. You answered by giving me the date of the Treaty of Laussane, therefore implying that it was that treaty that Made Palestine. That is very interesting considering the word Palestine isn't even mentioned.

What right to declare independence did the Palestinians have in 1988 that they did not have in 1948?

Arrgghhh ! In 1948, they declared independence on LAND THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN DECLARED INDEPENDENT BY ANOTHER PEOPLE.

Have you ever even read about the 1988 DOI ??? If so, can I see the link you are using for that?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

As a point of clarification.

Palestine was named. Its international borders were defined. The nationality of Palestinians was determined. Palestinians were to be citizens of Palestine.

All of this, however, was all de facto. Legally, Palestine was still Turkish territory and Palestinians were Turkish citizens.

The Treaty of Lausanne changed all that. Palestine changed from a territory of Turkey to a successor state making du jure all of those things that were de facto before the treaty was signed.

Even though Palestine was not mentioned by name, the provisions applied universally to all of the new states that were ceded from Turkey.

(OBSERVATION)
Reference: Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

Please note that the citation you provided makes reference to footnote #123, "123 British Government, Report on the Administration under Mandate of Palestine, 1924, p. 6."

VI.--Nationality.

1.Q.--What is the text of the Nationality law?

2. Q.--Have special provisions been enacted, framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews?

1 and 2. A.--The Palestine Citizenship Order-in-Council was drawn up in 1924, but the final text was not settled and the Order made until July, 1925. The matter will therefore be dealt with in the Report for 1925.

VI.--NATIONALITY.

1.Q. What is the text of the nationality law?

A. The text of the Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council and of a Proclamation by the High Commissioner for Palestine amending Article 2 thereof are reprinted in Section 4 of this Report.

2.Q. Have special provisions been enacted, framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews?

A. Article 5 of the Order facilitates the acquisition of citizenship by Jews who opted therefor under Article 2 of the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order in Council, 1922. The qualifications for naturalization are simple: two years' residence in Palestine out of the three years preceding application, good character, and the declared intention to settle in Palestine; knowledge of Hebrew is accepted under the literacy qualification. In special cases the High Commissioner is empowered to grant naturalization even if the period of residence has not been within the three years preceding application. Special naturalization offices have already been opened in Jerusalem, Haifa and Tiberias; and an officer is visiting the Jewish agricultural settlements in the north to receive applications on the spot.

SOURCE: Report 31 December 1925

SOURCE: Report 31 December 1924

(COMMENT)

So far, on close examination and tracking back to the original source of the information, does any of it suggest that the Mandate of Palestine was affected at all by the Treaty of Lausanne. And that you claim that Palestine was defined by other than the Allied Powers, and the Nationality Law, as administered of Palestine by The Palestine Citizenship Order-in-Council, was in any way altered by the Treaty of Lausanne is anything other than an unsubstantiated claim.

(b) All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner. -

See more at: Mandate for Palestine - The Palestine Order in LoN Council - Mandatory order (10 August 1922)

It should be said, nothing of consequence happened on 6 August 1924, relative to Palestine; nothing at all. It is a totally bogus argument.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is incorrect.


(COMMENT)

The Treaty of Lausanne merely protects the Mandatory from the indigenous population of various regions from automatically assuming the citizenship of the Mandatory. The Treaty of Lausanne does not define Palestine at all, nor does it extend to it any sovereignty.

Do you have a link to that?


You need to re read my posts. I didn't say that.


What right to declare independence did the Palestinians have in 1988 that they did not have in 1948?

Most Respectfully,
R

You should respond to his questions before you ask any.

You need to re read my posts. I didn't say that.

I asked you what day,month,year did Palestine become a country. You answered by giving me the date of the Treaty of Laussane, therefore implying that it was that treaty that Made Palestine. That is very interesting considering the word Palestine isn't even mentioned.

What right to declare independence did the Palestinians have in 1988 that they did not have in 1948?

Arrgghhh ! In 1948, they declared independence on LAND THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN DECLARED INDEPENDENT BY ANOTHER PEOPLE.

Have you ever even read about the 1988 DOI ??? If so, can I see the link you are using for that?

Arrgghhh ! In 1948, they declared independence on LAND THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN DECLARED INDEPENDENT BY ANOTHER PEOPLE.

You keep saying that but have yet to prove that it is true.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

And here is the circular argument.

Arrgghhh ! In 1948, they declared independence on LAND THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN DECLARED INDEPENDENT BY ANOTHER PEOPLE.

You keep saying that but have yet to prove that it is true.

(COMMENT)

The Jewish State was the outcome of the implementation of the General Assembly Resolution 181(II); which you don't recognize, but both the PLO (as the sole representative of the Palestinian People) and the Jewish State did. The Jewish State declared independence IAW RES 181 in May 1948. The Palestinians declared independence IAW RES 181 in November 1988.

Anything the AHC did in September 1948, was discarded because it was not in compliance. It was not even recognized by the Arab League.

A committee of the same name was reconstituted by the Arab League in 1945, but went to abeyance after it proved ineffective during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. It was banned by Jordan in 1948, and sidestepped by Egypt and the Arab League with the formation of the All-Palestine Government in 1948.

SOURCE: Arab Higher Committee Portal AND/OR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Higher_Committee

In 1948, the Arab Higher Committee failed to satisfy the traditional criteria for statehood: it did not have effective governmental control in any area in which they presumed their state to exist, or any effective control over a permanent population.

Most Respectfully,
R