I will not Bow!

[P F Tinmore]

Wow. He said it doesn't need to be written. Meaning NO

Then I have always wondered why he always invokes resolution 181 when it really doesn't apply.

Ive shown you several links that say otherwise, even concerning the Palestinian declaration of independence.
Im on my phone, but ill post the links later ..........AGAIN!

I await your response.

 

[pbel]

John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt · The Israel Lobby: the Israel Lobby · LRB 23 March 2006

Critics are also accused of holding Israel to an unfair standard or questioning its right to exist. But these are bogus charges too. Western critics of Israel hardly ever question its right to exist: they question its behaviour towards the Palestinians, as do Israelis themselves. Nor is Israel being judged unfairly. Israeli treatment of the Palestinians elicits criticism because it is contrary to widely accepted notions of human rights, to international law and to the principle of national self-determination. And it is hardly the only state that has faced sharp criticism on these grounds.

 

[toastman]

Then I have always wondered why he always invokes resolution 181 when it really doesn't apply.

Ive shown you several links that say otherwise, even concerning the Palestinian declaration of independence.
Im on my phone, but ill post the links later ..........AGAIN!

I await your response.

Do you not remember the link I provided you concerning the PDI and the relation to Resolution 181 ?

 

[toastman]

Then I have always wondered why he always invokes resolution 181 when it really doesn't apply.

Ive shown you several links that say otherwise, even concerning the Palestinian declaration of independence.
Im on my phone, but ill post the links later ..........AGAIN!

I await your response.

Legal justification for the declaration was based on United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, which provided for the termination and partition of the British Mandate into two states. Despite the proclamation of the State of Palestine, at the time the Palestine Liberation Organization did not exercise control over any territory,[4] and designated Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine,[5] which was under Israeli control and claimed by it as Israel's capital. Though recognised by over 100 countries, no de facto independent Palestinian state has come into existence in the Palestinian territories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Declaration_of_Independence

 

[toastman]

following upon UN General Assembly Resolution 181 (1947), which partitioned Palestine into two states, one Arab, one Jewish, yet it is this Resolution that still provides those conditions of international legitimacy that ensure the right of the Palestinian Arab people to sovereignty.

Document: Palestinian Declaration of Independence, 15 Nov 1988

 

[toastman]

Text of the Palestinian Declaration of Independence - Algiers Declaration (1988)
Algiers, November 15, 1988

following upon U.N. General Assembly Resolution 181 (1947), which partitioned Palestine into two states, one Arab, one Jewish, yet it is this Resolution that still provides those conditions of international legitimacy that ensure the right of the Palestinian Arab people to sovereignty.

Text of Palestinian Declaration of Independence (1988) - Full Text of Palestinian Declaration of Independence, or Algiers Declaration of 1988

 

[P F Tinmore]

Ive shown you several links that say otherwise, even concerning the Palestinian declaration of independence.
Im on my phone, but ill post the links later ..........AGAIN!

I await your response.

Legal justification for the declaration was based on United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, which provided for the termination and partition of the British Mandate into two states. Despite the proclamation of the State of Palestine, at the time the Palestine Liberation Organization did not exercise control over any territory,[4] and designated Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine,[5] which was under Israeli control and claimed by it as Israel's capital. Though recognised by over 100 countries, no de facto independent Palestinian state has come into existence in the Palestinian territories.

Palestinian Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Frequently wikipedia is a good source but not everything is accurate. When it said "partition of the British Mandate into two states." I question this article. The British Mandate was not a place, it was an administration assigned to Palestine.

How can you divide an administration into two states.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The question was answered several times.

Nice duck.

Of course that did not answer my question.

Yes he did. He said "it did not need to" , which of course means, it didn't.

Not that your question is relevant or has any meaning.

No he didn't.

The Jewish State was the outcome of the implementation of the General Assembly Resolution 181(II)

Where in Israel's declaration of independence did they say that they accepted the proposed resolution 181 borders?

Quote the passage.

Then Rocco started to blow smoke. That question remains unanswered.

(COMMENT)

First review Posting 870 - and - Posting #788.

The Jewish Agency acknowledged GA/RES/181(II) which contained the boundaries and declared Independence in accordance with the Resolution; fulfilling the step preparatory to independence with the UN Palestine Commission. Question answered several time, including in the previous posts.

If anyone is blowing smoke, it is you attempting to ignore the DoI, and its implications. I've said this over and over again. What killed the borders as accepted in the RES 181 was the Arab invasion and military confrontation that ensued on the same day as the Declaration of Independence (DoI) was dispatched. At the ceasefire, through military hot pursuit, Israel had gained control over more land than originally allocated.

It was the Hostile Arab Palestinian, in the solemn pledge of genocide, that rejected their portion of the allocated territory, opting for war and conflict.

AGAIN, the answer is in the DoI; see Posting #788, authenticated as implemented by the UN Palestine Commission.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The question was answered several times.

Yes he did. He said "it did not need to" , which of course means, it didn't.

Not that your question is relevant or has any meaning.

No he didn't.

Where in Israel's declaration of independence did they say that they accepted the proposed resolution 181 borders?

Quote the passage.

Then Rocco started to blow smoke. That question remains unanswered.

(COMMENT)

First review Posting 870 - and - Posting #788.

The Jewish Agency acknowledged GA/RES/181(II) which contained the boundaries and declared Independence in accordance with the Resolution; fulfilling the step preparatory to independence with the UN Palestine Commission. Question answered several time, including in the previous posts.

If anyone is blowing smoke, it is you attempting to ignore the DoI, and its implications. I've said this over and over again. What killed the borders as accepted in the RES 181 was the Arab invasion and military confrontation that ensued on the same day as the Declaration of Independence (DoI) was dispatched. At the ceasefire, through military hot pursuit, Israel had gained control over more land than originally allocated.

It was the Hostile Arab Palestinian, in the solemn pledge of genocide, that rejected their portion of the allocated territory, opting for war and conflict.

AGAIN, the answer is in the DoI; see Posting #788, authenticated as implemented by the UN Palestine Commission.

Most Respectfully,
R

My question remains unanswered.

Where in Israel's declaration of independence did they say that they accepted the proposed resolution 181 borders?

Quote the passage.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think I have answered ever question you have raise in detail.

Then I have always wondered why he always invokes resolution 181 when it really doesn't apply.

Ive shown you several links that say otherwise, even concerning the Palestinian declaration of independence.
Im on my phone, but ill post the links later ..........AGAIN!

I await your response.

(QUESTION)

What question remains unanswered?

v/r
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think I have answered ever question you have raise in detail.

Ive shown you several links that say otherwise, even concerning the Palestinian declaration of independence.
Im on my phone, but ill post the links later ..........AGAIN!

I await your response.

(QUESTION)

What question remains unanswered?

v/r
R

Where in Israel's declaration of independence did they say that they accepted the proposed resolution 181 borders?

Quote the passage.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The question was answered several times.

No he didn't.

Then Rocco started to blow smoke. That question remains unanswered.

(COMMENT)

First review Posting 870 - and - Posting #788.

The Jewish Agency acknowledged GA/RES/181(II) which contained the boundaries and declared Independence in accordance with the Resolution; fulfilling the step preparatory to independence with the UN Palestine Commission. Question answered several time, including in the previous posts.

If anyone is blowing smoke, it is you attempting to ignore the DoI, and its implications. I've said this over and over again. What killed the borders as accepted in the RES 181 was the Arab invasion and military confrontation that ensued on the same day as the Declaration of Independence (DoI) was dispatched. At the ceasefire, through military hot pursuit, Israel had gained control over more land than originally allocated.

It was the Hostile Arab Palestinian, in the solemn pledge of genocide, that rejected their portion of the allocated territory, opting for war and conflict.

AGAIN, the answer is in the DoI; see Posting #788, authenticated as implemented by the UN Palestine Commission.

Most Respectfully,
R

My question remains unanswered.

Where in Israel's declaration of independence did they say that they accepted the proposed resolution 181 borders?

Quote the passage.

(ANSWER)

“ON NOVEMBER 29 1947 GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF UNITED NATIONS ADOPTED RESOLUTION FOR ESTABLISHMENT OF INDEPENDENT JEWISH STATE"

As highlighted in the Previous Posting 788.

The "Jewish State" is described in the Resolution as follows:

B. THE JEWISH STATE

The north-eastern sector of the Jewish State (Eastern) Galilee) is bounded on the north and west by the Lebanese frontier and on the east by the frontiers of Syria and Transjordan. It includes the whole of the Hula Basin, Lake Tiberias, the whole of the Beisan sub-district, the boundary line being extended to the crest of the Gilboa mountains and the Wadi Malih. From there the Jewish State extends north-west, following the boundary described in respect of the Arab State.

The Jewish Section of the coastal plain extends from a point between Minat et Qila and Nabi Yunis in the Gaza sub-district and includes the towns of Haifa and Tel-Aviv, leaving Jaffa as an enclave of the Arab State. The eastern frontier of the Jewish State follows the boundary described in respect of the Arab State.

The Beersheba area comprises the whole of the Beersheba sub-district, including the Negeb and the eastern part of the Gaza sub-district, but excluding the town of Beersheba and those areas described in respect of the Arab State. It includes also a strip of land along the Dead Sea stretching from the Beersheba-Hebron sub-district boundary line to Ein Geddi, as described in respect of the Arab State.

SOURCE: A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The question was answered several times.


(COMMENT)

First review Posting 870 - and - Posting #788.

The Jewish Agency acknowledged GA/RES/181(II) which contained the boundaries and declared Independence in accordance with the Resolution; fulfilling the step preparatory to independence with the UN Palestine Commission. Question answered several time, including in the previous posts.

If anyone is blowing smoke, it is you attempting to ignore the DoI, and its implications. I've said this over and over again. What killed the borders as accepted in the RES 181 was the Arab invasion and military confrontation that ensued on the same day as the Declaration of Independence (DoI) was dispatched. At the ceasefire, through military hot pursuit, Israel had gained control over more land than originally allocated.

It was the Hostile Arab Palestinian, in the solemn pledge of genocide, that rejected their portion of the allocated territory, opting for war and conflict.

AGAIN, the answer is in the DoI; see Posting #788, authenticated as implemented by the UN Palestine Commission.

Most Respectfully,
R

My question remains unanswered.

Where in Israel's declaration of independence did they say that they accepted the proposed resolution 181 borders?

Quote the passage.

(ANSWER)

“ON NOVEMBER 29 1947 GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF UNITED NATIONS ADOPTED RESOLUTION FOR ESTABLISHMENT OF INDEPENDENT JEWISH STATE"

As highlighted in the Previous Posting 788.

The "Jewish State" is described in the Resolution as follows:

B. THE JEWISH STATE

The north-eastern sector of the Jewish State (Eastern) Galilee) is bounded on the north and west by the Lebanese frontier and on the east by the frontiers of Syria and Transjordan. It includes the whole of the Hula Basin, Lake Tiberias, the whole of the Beisan sub-district, the boundary line being extended to the crest of the Gilboa mountains and the Wadi Malih. From there the Jewish State extends north-west, following the boundary described in respect of the Arab State.

The Jewish Section of the coastal plain extends from a point between Minat et Qila and Nabi Yunis in the Gaza sub-district and includes the towns of Haifa and Tel-Aviv, leaving Jaffa as an enclave of the Arab State. The eastern frontier of the Jewish State follows the boundary described in respect of the Arab State.

The Beersheba area comprises the whole of the Beersheba sub-district, including the Negeb and the eastern part of the Gaza sub-district, but excluding the town of Beersheba and those areas described in respect of the Arab State. It includes also a strip of land along the Dead Sea stretching from the Beersheba-Hebron sub-district boundary line to Ein Geddi, as described in respect of the Arab State.

SOURCE: A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but you are dancing around my question.

Where in Israel's declaration of independence did they say that they accepted the proposed resolution 181 borders?

Quote the passage.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are asking that they wright it in your fashion.

My question remains unanswered.

Where in Israel's declaration of independence did they say that they accepted the proposed resolution 181 borders?

Quote the passage.

(ANSWER)

“ON NOVEMBER 29 1947 GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF UNITED NATIONS ADOPTED RESOLUTION FOR ESTABLISHMENT OF INDEPENDENT JEWISH STATE"

As highlighted in the Previous Posting 788.

The "Jewish State" is described in the Resolution as follows:

B. THE JEWISH STATE

The north-eastern sector of the Jewish State (Eastern) Galilee) is bounded on the north and west by the Lebanese frontier and on the east by the frontiers of Syria and Transjordan. It includes the whole of the Hula Basin, Lake Tiberias, the whole of the Beisan sub-district, the boundary line being extended to the crest of the Gilboa mountains and the Wadi Malih. From there the Jewish State extends north-west, following the boundary described in respect of the Arab State.

The Jewish Section of the coastal plain extends from a point between Minat et Qila and Nabi Yunis in the Gaza sub-district and includes the towns of Haifa and Tel-Aviv, leaving Jaffa as an enclave of the Arab State. The eastern frontier of the Jewish State follows the boundary described in respect of the Arab State.

The Beersheba area comprises the whole of the Beersheba sub-district, including the Negeb and the eastern part of the Gaza sub-district, but excluding the town of Beersheba and those areas described in respect of the Arab State. It includes also a strip of land along the Dead Sea stretching from the Beersheba-Hebron sub-district boundary line to Ein Geddi, as described in respect of the Arab State.

SOURCE: A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but you are dancing around my question.

Where in Israel's declaration of independence did they say that they accepted the proposed resolution 181 borders?

Quote the passage.

(COMMENT)

That was the acceptance of the "Jewish State." They may not have had it written to your satisfaction, but it was accepted and understood by everyone else. The phrase "Jewish State" was well defined in the Resolution; complete with boundaries.

It is you that is blowing smoke.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

I await your response.

Legal justification for the declaration was based on United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, which provided for the termination and partition of the British Mandate into two states. Despite the proclamation of the State of Palestine, at the time the Palestine Liberation Organization did not exercise control over any territory,[4] and designated Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine,[5] which was under Israeli control and claimed by it as Israel's capital. Though recognised by over 100 countries, no de facto independent Palestinian state has come into existence in the Palestinian territories.

Palestinian Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Frequently wikipedia is a good source but not everything is accurate. When it said "partition of the British Mandate into two states." I question this article. The British Mandate was not a place, it was an administration assigned to Palestine.

How can you divide an administration into two states.

Obviously when they said the British Mandate, they were referring to the British Mandate of Palestine, or Mandatory Palestine.

Nothing you said changes the fact that Resolution 181 WAS actually a factor in both DOI (Israel and Palestine)

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think I have answered ever question you have raise in detail.

I await your response.

(QUESTION)

What question remains unanswered?

v/r
R

Where in Israel's declaration of independence did they say that they accepted the proposed resolution 181 borders?

Quote the passage.

You're asking this question as if a lack of response to it means anything.

What are you trying to prove ??

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are asking that they wright it in your fashion.

(ANSWER)

“ON NOVEMBER 29 1947 GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF UNITED NATIONS ADOPTED RESOLUTION FOR ESTABLISHMENT OF INDEPENDENT JEWISH STATE"

As highlighted in the Previous Posting 788.

The "Jewish State" is described in the Resolution as follows:



Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but you are dancing around my question.

Where in Israel's declaration of independence did they say that they accepted the proposed resolution 181 borders?

Quote the passage.

(COMMENT)

That was the acceptance of the "Jewish State." They may not have had it written to your satisfaction, but it was accepted and understood by everyone else. The phrase "Jewish State" was well defined in the Resolution; complete with boundaries.

It is you that is blowing smoke.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but when Israel lied about accepting resolution 181 it was already attacking Palestinians outside its allotted territory before its declaration.

You merely assume that Israel accepted resolution 181 but their actions say they didn't.

Everything points to resolution 181 having nothing to do with the creation of Israel.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

There is a misunderstanding here.

WHEREAS the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;

And whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country;

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.

11.--(1) The High Commissioner may, with the approval of a Secretary of State, by Proclamation divide Palestine into administrative divisions or districts in such manner and with such subdivisions as may be convenient for purposes of administration describing the boundaries thereof and assigning names thereto.​

SOURCE: The Palestine Order in Council

Legal justification for the declaration was based on United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, which provided for the termination and partition of the British Mandate into two states. Despite the proclamation of the State of Palestine, at the time the Palestine Liberation Organization did not exercise control over any territory,[4] and designated Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine,[5] which was under Israeli control and claimed by it as Israel's capital. Though recognised by over 100 countries, no de facto independent Palestinian state has come into existence in the Palestinian territories.

Palestinian Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Frequently wikipedia is a good source but not everything is accurate. When it said "partition of the British Mandate into two states." I question this article. The British Mandate was not a place, it was an administration assigned to Palestine.

How can you divide an administration into two states.

Obviously when they said the British Mandate, they were referring to the British Mandate of Palestine, or Mandatory Palestine.

Nothing you said changes the fact that Resolution 181 WAS actually a factor in both DOI (Israel and Palestine)

(COMMENT)

Of course the Resolution was a factor in both the DoI Israel (1948) and Palestine (1988). It was a element of precedence cited in both documents.

There are people that would like to dispose of GA/RES/181(II), as a political inconvenience. But it is a historical document used by both sides of the ongoing dispute. Surely there are some aspects that have been overtaken by events. But is it the principle document that initially established the Jewish State and the Arab State.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are asking that they wright it in your fashion.

OK, but you are dancing around my question.

Where in Israel's declaration of independence did they say that they accepted the proposed resolution 181 borders?

Quote the passage.

(COMMENT)

That was the acceptance of the "Jewish State." They may not have had it written to your satisfaction, but it was accepted and understood by everyone else. The phrase "Jewish State" was well defined in the Resolution; complete with boundaries.

It is you that is blowing smoke.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but when Israel lied about accepting resolution 181 it was already attacking Palestinians outside its allotted territory before its declaration.

You merely assume that Israel accepted resolution 181 but their actions say they didn't.

Everything points to resolution 181 having nothing to do with the creation of Israel.

BOTH parties were attacking each other ! You're so incredibly biased !

In fact, the Palestinians were the first ones to attack; 1929 Hebron Massacre

 

[toastman]

Tinmore, can you show me where you get your information regarding the Arab Israeli war(1948) as well as the events before it (1947 mandatory Palestine civil war and before)