I will not Bow!

[RoccoR]

et al,

After the 1948 war, Israel was established on a more extensive territory than recommended in the partition plan. By entering into the Armistice Agreement with Egypt in 1949, Israel, demonstrated a sufficient level of stable and effective government of the territory to be recognised as a state by other states and the UN. Israel was effectively and lawfully established as a state, on the armistice territory, by secession from the Mandate of Palestine. A state for the Palestinians living in the Mandate of Palestine was never created and this unrealised goal still constitutes one of the core issues of the conflict.

http://www.diakonia.se/sa/node.asp?node=3142

Nice link.

I just saw that the link didn't work. I copy pasted it before so I had it at hand. IT used to work, and in fact, it's the same link YOU have used many times.

Easy Guide to International Humanitarian Law in the Occupied Palestinian Territory.

Stop pretending like I or Rocco have never posted that paragraph with the link working

(COMMENT)

Sometimes you have to go to the International Humanitarian Resource Centre Publications - Diakonia link and download the "Easy Guide."

Vr
R

 

[toastman]

Nice link.

I just saw that the link didn't work. I copy pasted it before so I had it at hand. IT used to work, and in fact, it's the same link YOU have used many times.

Easy Guide to International Humanitarian Law in the Occupied Palestinian Territory.

Stop pretending like I or Rocco have never posted that paragraph with the link working

I know. I was just jerking your chain.

Try this one. It is quite interesting.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

That's not the issue we're discussing.

It better not be the Lakers!

Apparently Kobe Bryants parents were part of the Irgun.

Now how do you like him ???

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Just as the link describes.

No, there was no recognized occupation of Palestine (it wasn't a country).

Then what was Egypt and Jordan occupying between 1949 and 1967?

(COMMENT)

It was unincorporated, UN trustee territory allotted for the Arab State. Although it is incorrect to say Jordan occupied it throughout. The West Bank and part of Jerusalem were Annex.

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan attempted to annex the West bank but the world would not accept it.

What country did Egypt an Jordan occupy.

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Just as the link describes.

Then what was Egypt and Jordan occupying between 1949 and 1967?

(COMMENT)

It was unincorporated, UN trustee territory allotted for the Arab State. Although it is incorrect to say Jordan occupied it throughout. The West Bank and part of Jerusalem were Annex.

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan attempted to annex the West bank but the world would not accept it.

What country did Egypt an Jordan occupy.

There was no country to be occupied. Read his post again.

Territory. Not country. Territory. Not country. Territory

Where did you read that the world would not accept it ??? I don't recall that

 

[Billo_Really]

Apparently Kobe Bryants parents were part of the Irgun.

Now how do you like him ???

Not funny.

We just got word today he'll be out another 3 to 5 weeks.

 

[Lipush]

No, there was no recognized occupation of Palestine (it wasn't a country).

Then what was Egypt and Jordan occupying between 1949 and 1967?

The land of Israel?

 

[pbel]

No, there was no recognized occupation of Palestine (it wasn't a country).

Then what was Egypt and Jordan occupying between 1949 and 1967?

The land of Israel?[/QUOTE]

Lip, I guess in a sense you really explain the Zionist point of view, psychologically ingrained by religious belief...


You really believe that despite a two thousand year absence from ancient Israel by the Jews, you retained ownership, and regaining it from other people is heaven sent despite the fact of your-own commandment of "Thou shall not steal."

It is a mass psychosis spread by religious malarkey that has put your people back into the bulls-eye of destruction for a future conflict in this sea of Islam...

Make peace now and hope for the best...You cannot defeat Islam on its own turf.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Make peace now and hope for the best..."

The Israelis would be fools to do so. It would mean the death of their nation. Their opponents will settle for nothing less.

"...You cannot defeat Islam on its own turf."

They can, if they're backed by most of Christendom (a.k.a. the secularized West), but, they don't really need to defeat Islam; just take back all of their old homeland, and to hold that.

Which they will.

A century from now, Israel will still be alive and kicking, stronger than ever, and the by-then scattered Palestinians will have been in Jordan and Lebanon for 2-3 generations, and disappear from history, except as a footnote in school textbooks.

There is no Arab Legion or Arab cavalry coming over the hill, next time, to save the mad-dog Palestinians from being evicted and expelled.

Militant Islam has already shot its wad for a generation or two - they've only been out from under Colonial Rule for a generation or two, and they're already at each others' throats again. They are their own worst enemies, which is why they were eventually subdued by European Colonialism in the first place.

The sky is not falling for the Israelis.

As a matter of fact, it shaping-up to be a blue-skies, wisps-of-white-clouds, sunny, balmy day for them, metaphorically speaking, and looking towards the foreseeable future.

 

[pbel]

"...Make peace now and hope for the best..."

The Israelis would be fools to do so. It would mean the death of their nation. Their opponents will settle for nothing less.

"...You cannot defeat Islam on its own turf."

They can, if they're backed by most of Christendom (a.k.a. the secularized West), but, they don't really need to defeat Islam; just take back all of their old homeland, and to hold that.

Which they will. A century from now, Israel will still be alive and kicking, stronger than ever, and the by-then scattered Palestinians will have been in Jordan and Lebanon for 2-3 generations, and disappear from history, except as a footnote in school textbooks.

There is no Arab Legion or Arab cavalry coming over the hill, next time, to save the mad-dog Palestinians from being evicted and expelled.

Militant Islam has already shot its wad for a generation or two - they've only been out from under Colonial Rule for a generation or two, and they're already at each others' throats again.

The ranting of desperation...It wont be horses coming over the hills, it will be rockets...the West is sick of Israeli war mongering and boycotts are now being imposed, they will never come to Israel's aid. They are the cause of Israel's birth from the ashes of their holocaust against the Jews.

 

[Kondor3]

"...The ranting of desperation..."

Desperation?

How so?

Personally, I'm not Jewish, nor tied to a Christian cult that focuses upon the return of the Jews as a harbinger of Armageddon. I look at the situation through cold, dispassionate eyes, in contemplating Israeli prospects.

Situationally, the Israelis are (and have been, for years) the strongest military power in the region; capable of holding off several of their Muslim neighbor-states simultaneously, even when those neighbors are in peak condition.

And those neighbors are now in a degenerate and impotent state, and will be for many years.

None of that sounds very 'desperate' to me.

"...It wont be horses coming over the hills, it will be rockets..."

I don't know where those rockets will be coming from (other than Uncle Achmed's Build-a-Rocket kits used by Hamas, et al). Nothing serious to worry about.

"...the West is sick of Israeli war mongering..."

Israel doesn't war-monger. Israel launches punitive expeditions and mini-wars when they have been on the recieving end of a suicide-bombing campaign or rocket-barrage for too long, and that's more a matter of self-defense than anything else.

If The West was truly sick of it, they would stop it, but they don't. Why? Because we like Jews better than we like Muslims - especially after 9-11 and the London Tube bombings.

"...and boycotts are now being imposed..."

Pfffffttt... BDS is a 9-year-old Circus Flea that is going nowhere, fast. My aunt Martha is more of an economic threat to Israel than BDS and its kindred.

"...they will never come to Israel's aid..."

A matter of speculative opinion. Personally, I believe differently.

"...They are the cause of Israel's birth from the ashes of their holocaust against the Jews."

Quite true.

Western support for Israel is part of a generations-long Penance that The West has given itself as a way to make-up for the Holocaust - in part, anyway.

Which is why we can expect Western support for Israel to continue for generations to come.

 

[rhodescholar]

The ranting of desperation...It wont be horses coming over the hills, it will be rockets...the West is sick of Israeli war mongering and boycotts are now being imposed, they will never come to Israel's aid. They are the cause of Israel's birth from the ashes of their holocaust against the Jews.

Keep dreaming of millions more murdered jews, you psychotic asshole. The only ones supporting boycotts are the stormfront racist trash like yourself and arab muslim filth, who will soon be deported en masse from europe and the west. Do assholes like you actually believe that Israel could not replace european trade, which involves less than 1/3 of israel's exports, with other countries in about 10 minutes?

 

[pbel]

"...The ranting of desperation..."

Desperation?

How so?

Personally, I'm not Jewish, nor tied to a Christian cult that focuses upon the return of the Jews as a harbinger of Armageddon. I look at the situation through cold, dispassionate eyes, in contemplating Israeli prospects.

Situationally, the Israelis are (and have been, for years) the strongest military power in the region; capable of holding off several of their Muslim neighbor-states simultaneously, even when those neighbors are in peak condition.

And those neighbors are now in a degenerate and impotent state, and will be for many years.

None of that sounds very 'desperate' to me.

"...It wont be horses coming over the hills, it will be rockets..."

I don't know where those rockets will be coming from (other than Uncle Achmed's Build-a-Rocket kits used by Hamas, et al). Nothing serious to worry about.


Israel doesn't war-monger. Israel launches punitive expeditions and mini-wars when they have been on the recieving end of a suicide-bombing campaign or rocket-barrage for too long, and that's more a matter of self-defense than anything else.

If The West was truly sick of it, they would stop it, but they don't. Why? Because we like Jews better than we like Muslims - especially after 9-11 and the London Tube bombings.


Pfffffttt... BDS is a 9-year-old Circus Flea that is going nowhere, fast. My aunt Martha is more of an economic threat to Israel than BDS and its kindred.

"...they will never come to Israel's aid..."

A matter of speculative opinion. Personally, I believe differently.

"...They are the cause of Israel's birth from the ashes of their holocaust against the Jews."

Quite true.

Western support for Israel is part of a generations-long Penance that The West has given itself as a way to make-up for the Holocaust - in part, anyway.

Which is why we can expect Western support for Israel to continue for generations to come.

I agree, Israeli prospects look good for the near future, militarily...they lead the US congress and Federal officials like cows in a pasture with the most money contributions in history via AIPAC in America... But, America now oil independent, is withdrawing, because of the cost in money and blood.

Israel will become alone.


But the rest of the World dislikes Israel and her policies of land grabbing...they desperately need ME Oil over Israeli war mongering...Oil will win out.

Plus all those quarreling Arabs in the Arab Spring has produced a civil society that has supported Jihadists...Yes in a hundred years, Israel will control Erets Israel by force...That's about the time they will all have nukes...I see Armageddon and Allah and Yaweh the moon gods will separate the rest, if peace to the 67 borders is not made.

 

[Kondor3]

"...if peace to the 67 borders is not made."

The Palestinians, and, to a much lesser extent, Muslims at-large, will not be happy until Israel is wiped altogether from the map. Should the Israelis concede a reversion back to the 1967 borders prior to the Six Day War, they will be cutting their own throats, as that will merely be the first in a series of demands being made upon them. Show weakness in the midst of those Arab cutthroats and you're lost. Pulling back to the 1967 borders would be showing weakness, as well as not in keeping with the Israelis long-range goals to re-acquire all of Eretz Yisrael. And, if the Arabs want to press the point at some future date and they actually win, well, better to be killed as a bull rather than as a sheep.

 

[toastman]

"...The ranting of desperation..."

Desperation?

How so?

Personally, I'm not Jewish, nor tied to a Christian cult that focuses upon the return of the Jews as a harbinger of Armageddon. I look at the situation through cold, dispassionate eyes, in contemplating Israeli prospects.

Situationally, the Israelis are (and have been, for years) the strongest military power in the region; capable of holding off several of their Muslim neighbor-states simultaneously, even when those neighbors are in peak condition.

And those neighbors are now in a degenerate and impotent state, and will be for many years.

None of that sounds very 'desperate' to me.


I don't know where those rockets will be coming from (other than Uncle Achmed's Build-a-Rocket kits used by Hamas, et al). Nothing serious to worry about.


Israel doesn't war-monger. Israel launches punitive expeditions and mini-wars when they have been on the recieving end of a suicide-bombing campaign or rocket-barrage for too long, and that's more a matter of self-defense than anything else.

If The West was truly sick of it, they would stop it, but they don't. Why? Because we like Jews better than we like Muslims - especially after 9-11 and the London Tube bombings.


Pfffffttt... BDS is a 9-year-old Circus Flea that is going nowhere, fast. My aunt Martha is more of an economic threat to Israel than BDS and its kindred.


A matter of speculative opinion. Personally, I believe differently.

"...They are the cause of Israel's birth from the ashes of their holocaust against the Jews."

Quite true.

Western support for Israel is part of a generations-long Penance that The West has given itself as a way to make-up for the Holocaust - in part, anyway.

Which is why we can expect Western support for Israel to continue for generations to come.

I agree, Israeli prospects look good for the near future, militarily...they lead the US congress and Federal officials like cows in a pasture with the most money contributions in history via AIPAC in America... But, America now oil independent, is withdrawing, because of the cost in money and blood.

Israel will become alone.


But the rest of the World dislikes Israel and her policies of land grabbing...they desperately need ME Oil over Israeli war mongering...Oil will win out.

Plus all those quarreling Arabs in the Arab Spring has produced a civil society that has supported Jihadists...Yes in a hundred years, Israel will control Erets Israel by force...That's about the time they will all have nukes...I see Armageddon and Allah and Yaweh the moon gods will separate the rest, if peace to the 67 borders is not made.

The way I see it, Israel is already alone

 

[pbel]

Desperation?

How so?

Personally, I'm not Jewish, nor tied to a Christian cult that focuses upon the return of the Jews as a harbinger of Armageddon. I look at the situation through cold, dispassionate eyes, in contemplating Israeli prospects.

Situationally, the Israelis are (and have been, for years) the strongest military power in the region; capable of holding off several of their Muslim neighbor-states simultaneously, even when those neighbors are in peak condition.

And those neighbors are now in a degenerate and impotent state, and will be for many years.

None of that sounds very 'desperate' to me.


I don't know where those rockets will be coming from (other than Uncle Achmed's Build-a-Rocket kits used by Hamas, et al). Nothing serious to worry about.


Israel doesn't war-monger. Israel launches punitive expeditions and mini-wars when they have been on the recieving end of a suicide-bombing campaign or rocket-barrage for too long, and that's more a matter of self-defense than anything else.

If The West was truly sick of it, they would stop it, but they don't. Why? Because we like Jews better than we like Muslims - especially after 9-11 and the London Tube bombings.


Pfffffttt... BDS is a 9-year-old Circus Flea that is going nowhere, fast. My aunt Martha is more of an economic threat to Israel than BDS and its kindred.


A matter of speculative opinion. Personally, I believe differently.


Quite true.

Western support for Israel is part of a generations-long Penance that The West has given itself as a way to make-up for the Holocaust - in part, anyway.

Which is why we can expect Western support for Israel to continue for generations to come.

I agree, Israeli prospects look good for the near future, militarily...they lead the US congress and Federal officials like cows in a pasture with the most money contributions in history via AIPAC in America... But, America now oil independent, is withdrawing, because of the cost in money and blood.

Israel will become alone.


But the rest of the World dislikes Israel and her policies of land grabbing...they desperately need ME Oil over Israeli war mongering...Oil will win out.

Plus all those quarreling Arabs in the Arab Spring has produced a civil society that has supported Jihadists...Yes in a hundred years, Israel will control Erets Israel by force...That's about the time they will all have nukes...I see Armageddon and Allah and Yaweh the moon gods will separate the rest, if peace to the 67 borders is not made.

The way I see it, Israel is already alone

I honestly believe if an acceptable peace with Arab league blessing can turn things around...We all know the miracle of Economic prosperities ability to transform societies...

Israel at peace can make a huge Economic impact on the middle east and transform it into an Economic Oasis.

That would transform the view of the Jew, a co- religious brother who brought them a decent life.

 

[GISMYS]

"Satan trembles when he sees the weakest saint upon his knees.”
So...we pray.

Psalm 107:28-30 Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble, and he delivered them from their distress. He made the storm be still, and the waves of the sea were hushed. Then they were glad that the waters were quiet, and he brought them to their desired haven.

 

[Phoenall]

Then what was Egypt and Jordan occupying between 1949 and 1967?

The land of Israel?[/QUOTE]

Lip, I guess in a sense you really explain the Zionist point of view, psychologically ingrained by religious belief...


You really believe that despite a two thousand year absence from ancient Israel by the Jews, you retained ownership, and regaining it from other people is heaven sent despite the fact of your-own commandment of "Thou shall not steal."

It is a mass psychosis spread by religious malarkey that has put your people back into the bulls-eye of destruction for a future conflict in this sea of Islam...

Make peace now and hope for the best...You cannot defeat Islam on its own turf.

Then what about all the Jews that never left the land, the ones that you say did not have the right to declare a nation in 1948. No absence of the Jews for 2000 years at all, but there was an absence of arab muslim ownership from the beginning of the first millennium until the end of the mandate.

We beat islam on its own turf 3 or 4 times in the past, so we know it can be done.

 

[RoccoR]

toastman, pbel, Kondor3, et al,

I must say, there is a multitude of view here.

Israel doesn't war-monger. Israel launches punitive expeditions and mini-wars when they have been on the recieving end of a suicide-bombing campaign or rocket-barrage for too long, and that's more a matter of self-defense than anything else.

If The West was truly sick of it, they would stop it, but they don't. Why? Because we like Jews better than we like Muslims - especially after 9-11 and the London Tube bombings.

(COMMENT)

First of all, "Kondor" is on target. Israel is militarily reactive; like active armor on a tank. You punch it, it punches back - sometimes by multiple factors as hard. This is an observation one can make over and over again since the 1929 Riots and the rise of the Palestinian Black Hand to face the Haganah/Irgun; or the Israeli Operation "Bayonet"("Wrath of God") in response to the 1972 Munich massacre of the Israeli Olympic team. The Israeli has learned the hard way, that it it unwise for them to place their security and survival in the hands of others.

And the Western Powers should understand that if the powers behind the Radical Islamic Jihadist and Fedayeen, as well as the unaligned insurgents and terrorist, are allowed to free range against sovereign states - unchallenged, simply because they make some ancient claim of land ownership, self-determination, and inalienable rights, the nations of the Middle East will fall into turmoil and chaos just as have Libya, Egypt and Syria have. They will all loose, one at a time, their economic prosperity and the enjoyment of social advancement.

But the rest of the World dislikes Israel and her policies of land grabbing...they desperately need ME Oil over Israeli war mongering...Oil will win out.

(COMMENT)

Our friend "pbel" has also expressed an undeniable truth. As much as the western world finds the ways and means of the Radical Islamic Jihadist and Fedayeen, as well as the unaligned insurgent and terrorist, to be contemptible, frivolous in their word, irresolute in their honesty and historically criminal, it is also the case that western world sees the actions of the Israel Government, with respect to the settlements of the Occupied Territory, as a counterproductive policy; and the actions of the Settlers in recent times reprehensible.

The way I see it, Israel is already alone.

(COMMENT)

Israel is not alone now, nor has it been alone since its inception. But it has been, at times, uncooperative, ungrateful, and irresponsible in its international relationships that it is bound to maintain. It has often forced its allies into a condition of "double think" where the allies must simultaneously hold and accept two mutually contradictory beliefs; one supporting the rights of Israel and one opposed to its survival mechanisms.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

"...Make peace now and hope for the best..."

The Israelis would be fools to do so. It would mean the death of their nation. Their opponents will settle for nothing less.

"...You cannot defeat Islam on its own turf."

They can, if they're backed by most of Christendom (a.k.a. the secularized West), but, they don't really need to defeat Islam; just take back all of their old homeland, and to hold that.

Which they will. A century from now, Israel will still be alive and kicking, stronger than ever, and the by-then scattered Palestinians will have been in Jordan and Lebanon for 2-3 generations, and disappear from history, except as a footnote in school textbooks.

There is no Arab Legion or Arab cavalry coming over the hill, next time, to save the mad-dog Palestinians from being evicted and expelled.

Militant Islam has already shot its wad for a generation or two - they've only been out from under Colonial Rule for a generation or two, and they're already at each others' throats again.

The ranting of desperation...It wont be horses coming over the hills, it will be rockets...the West is sick of Israeli war mongering and boycotts are now being imposed, they will never come to Israel's aid. They are the cause of Israel's birth from the ashes of their holocaust against the Jews.

Don't think so as the west would retaliate with rockets of their own, and the whole of islam would suffer. The west is not sick as shown by the numbers opposing the BDS movement, but they are sick of Islamic violence and terrorism against the innocent women and children in the west. Very soon it will hit the US and then you will see what they are capable of.

 

[Phoenall]

"...The ranting of desperation..."

Desperation?

How so?

Personally, I'm not Jewish, nor tied to a Christian cult that focuses upon the return of the Jews as a harbinger of Armageddon. I look at the situation through cold, dispassionate eyes, in contemplating Israeli prospects.

Situationally, the Israelis are (and have been, for years) the strongest military power in the region; capable of holding off several of their Muslim neighbor-states simultaneously, even when those neighbors are in peak condition.

And those neighbors are now in a degenerate and impotent state, and will be for many years.

None of that sounds very 'desperate' to me.


I don't know where those rockets will be coming from (other than Uncle Achmed's Build-a-Rocket kits used by Hamas, et al). Nothing serious to worry about.


Israel doesn't war-monger. Israel launches punitive expeditions and mini-wars when they have been on the recieving end of a suicide-bombing campaign or rocket-barrage for too long, and that's more a matter of self-defense than anything else.

If The West was truly sick of it, they would stop it, but they don't. Why? Because we like Jews better than we like Muslims - especially after 9-11 and the London Tube bombings.


Pfffffttt... BDS is a 9-year-old Circus Flea that is going nowhere, fast. My aunt Martha is more of an economic threat to Israel than BDS and its kindred.


A matter of speculative opinion. Personally, I believe differently.

"...They are the cause of Israel's birth from the ashes of their holocaust against the Jews."

Quite true.

Western support for Israel is part of a generations-long Penance that The West has given itself as a way to make-up for the Holocaust - in part, anyway.

Which is why we can expect Western support for Israel to continue for generations to come.

I agree, Israeli prospects look good for the near future, militarily...they lead the US congress and Federal officials like cows in a pasture with the most money contributions in history via AIPAC in America... But, America now oil independent, is withdrawing, because of the cost in money and blood.

Israel will become alone.


But the rest of the World dislikes Israel and her policies of land grabbing...they desperately need ME Oil over Israeli war mongering...Oil will win out.

Plus all those quarreling Arabs in the Arab Spring has produced a civil society that has supported Jihadists...Yes in a hundred years, Israel will control Erets Israel by force...That's about the time they will all have nukes...I see Armageddon and Allah and Yaweh the moon gods will separate the rest, if peace to the 67 borders is not made.

You forget that the oil is running out and without Israeli technology and experimentation we will be back to walking everywhere. The Israelis have an alternative fuel source that they are perfecting based on water of all things, old tech but proven. So the arabs are getting scared of losing their stranglehold on the worlds economy.