I will not Bow!

[P F Tinmore]

Once ownership changes hands, it's all over, Tinny.

Ownership has never changed hands.

And THAT is the Disconnect From Reality that has held your side back and kept them in shitholes for 66 years. Pointless. Tragic. Pathetic.


Sent from my HP 7 using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

The ownership has not changed hands. You are the one with a problem with reality.

 

[Billo_Really]

Considering you compared Jews being gassed to death in the Holocaust to the IDF using tear gas as a means of riot dispersal, it's not the least bit surprising that you came up with this pathetic comparison..

Are you that big of a *****, that you have to constantly lie about shit?

And what's pathetic about the comparison?

They wanted an Aryan Nation, you want a Jewish State.

What's the fuckin' difference?

You're both racist assholes, who think your shit don't stink.

 

[Kondor3]

Ownership has never changed hands.

And THAT is the Disconnect From Reality that has held your side back and kept them in shitholes for 66 years. Pointless. Tragic. Pathetic.


Sent from my HP 7 using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

The ownership has not changed hands. You are the one with a problem with reality.

Spare me the Automatic Gainsay, Tinny...

The Israelis are in possession of those lands...

And have been, for 66 years now...

They hold the pink-slip nowadays... not you...

 

[P F Tinmore]

And THAT is the Disconnect From Reality that has held your side back and kept them in shitholes for 66 years. Pointless. Tragic. Pathetic.


Sent from my HP 7 using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

The ownership has not changed hands. You are the one with a problem with reality.

Spare me the Automatic Gainsay, Tinny...

The Israelis are in possession of those lands...

And have been, for 66 years now...

They hold the pink-slip nowadays... not you...

Old school.

Parking your ass on a piece of land with a gun no longer means that it is yours.

 

[Phoenall]

Mexico isn't ever getting shit back, neither are they even asking for anything back. The arabs should take their clue from Mexico, because Mexico prospered after having lost that war. So unless the arabs concede and surrender, their lot will never improve.

PS Nobody cares about what the UN thinks, just ask Russia.

If Israel won't voluntarily obey international law, then it should be forced to.

Just like we did with Japan and Nazi Germany.

So you advocate that the USA should ignore International law and attack Israel wipe out the Jews and destroy their property. Then force the rest into death camps and fulfil the NAZI's final solution because you don't think that International law applies to the Jews.

Now how about you detail these breaches of International law that you claim Israel is making and show what the breaches are in detail so we can destroy your words with actual International law from Judges that know more than you ever will about it.

What a filthy ISLAMONAZI JEW HATING RACIST SCUMBAG YOU ARE. Do you have your white bed sheet hung up in the closet and your wooden crosses ready to burn,

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think that was said at all.

Are you saying that Israel has no current intelligent and articulate people suitable for debate?

(COMMENT)

• The big question is: What would you debate?

Much of any Palestinian argument is based upon rights and protections that the Allied Powers fought for and extended to the Palestinian. Not a single contribution was ever made by the Arab-Palestinian or its ancestral linage.

• General Assembly Resolution 217 A (III) of 10 December 1948 - International Bill of Human Rights
• Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960
• International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (General Assembly resolution 2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966)
• Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination (A/RES/49/148 23 December 1994)
• United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (General Assembly 61/295 13 September 2007)

Most Respectfully,
R

In disregard to your excess in verbosity and your sliming the Arabs/Palestinians, I will thank you for your link.

Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples

We hear constantly from Israel's propagandists that the Palestinians have no rights because they have never had an independent country or state. There is also a list of other excuses why they don't have rights. Of course none of this is true and the arguments that follow are not true because they are based on false premise.

From your link:

1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.

2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.

None of which applies to the arab muslims as they were given the right to declare a nation on mandated land. The arab muslims exercised their right to free determination and refused the offer and went to war instead.
The arab muslims tried unsuccessfully to wipe out the Jews on 3 separate occasions against the very charter you are claiming was never granted to them. But these 3 attempts at genocide show that they used their right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
Not one nation is interfering in the internal affairs or disrespecting their sovereign rights unless you can prove otherwise from a reputable unbiased source. What is happening is that because of terrorist attacks, violence and belligerent actions by the arab muslims Israel is forced to take measures under the Geneva conventions and the UN charter to try and stop the attacks. This leads to the ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDISTS declaring that Israel is an apartheid state when the truth is the arab muslim state is apartheid in the extreme

 

[Billo_Really]

So you advocate that the USA should ignore International law and attack Israel wipe out the Jews and destroy their property. Then force the rest into death camps and fulfil the NAZI's final solution because you don't think that International law applies to the Jews.

Now how about you detail these breaches of International law that you claim Israel is making and show what the breaches are in detail so we can destroy your words with actual International law from Judges that know more than you ever will about it.

What a filthy ISLAMONAZI JEW HATING RACIST SCUMBAG YOU ARE. Do you have your white bed sheet hung up in the closet and your wooden crosses ready to burn,

Driving the god-damn Israeli's back to Israel, has nothing to do with Judaism.

But you're doing everything you can to get people to think it does.

 

[Phoenall]

Mexico isn't ever getting shit back, neither are they even asking for anything back. The arabs should take their clue from Mexico, because Mexico prospered after having lost that war. So unless the arabs concede and surrender, their lot will never improve.

PS Nobody cares about what the UN thinks, just ask Russia.

If Israel won't voluntarily obey international law, then it should be forced to.

Just like we did with Japan and Nazi Germany.

Forced by whom?

Why by the fleet of flying pink elephants that billy boy sees every day. It is just ISLAMONAZI RACISM at its worst, so take no notice and he will go away.

 

[Phoenall]

In disregard to your excess in verbosity and your sliming the Arabs/Palestinians, I will thank you for your link.

Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples

We hear constantly from Israel's propagandists that the Palestinians have no rights because they have never had an independent country or state. There is also a list of other excuses why they don't have rights. Of course none of this is true and the arguments that follow are not true because they are based on false premise.

From your link:

​

No one ever said that Palestinian Arabs had no rights. We just mention how they had no sovereignty .
It's the Arab propagandists that like to yell a different story, like you.

Another false premise. It is the right to sovereignty that counts.

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

3. Emphasizes that full respect for and the realization of these inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237

So when was their application of independence thrown out then, as I believe they became a SOVEREIGN nation in 1988.

Caught out in another LIE

 

[Billo_Really]

So when was their application of independence thrown out then, as I believe they became a SOVEREIGN nation in 1988.

Who gives a shit what you believe!

Caught out in another LIE

What was the lie, fuckhead?

 

[Billo_Really]

None of which applies to the arab muslims as they were given the right to declare a nation on mandated land. The arab muslims exercised their right to free determination and refused the offer and went to war instead.
The arab muslims tried unsuccessfully to wipe out the Jews on 3 separate occasions against the very charter you are claiming was never granted to them. But these 3 attempts at genocide show that they used their right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
Not one nation is interfering in the internal affairs or disrespecting their sovereign rights unless you can prove otherwise from a reputable unbiased source. What is happening is that because of terrorist attacks, violence and belligerent actions by the arab muslims Israel is forced to take measures under the Geneva conventions and the UN charter to try and stop the attacks. This leads to the ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDISTS declaring that Israel is an apartheid state when the truth is the arab muslim state is apartheid in the extreme

Over 100 UN resolutions, say you're full of shit!

People like you, don't deserve a country.

 

[Phoenall]

MhunterB:

Despite being europeans (racially), your national identity as an ashkenazi woman is real, is 100% legitimate, you are a distinct people, totally separated from the european gentile population.

Despite sharing the same genes you are a separate people due to:

1 the way you pray

2 the way you dress

3 the way you eat

4 the way you speak

and more important than all these cultural aspects:

5 THE WAY YOU THINK ABOUT YOURSELVES (as a separate people).

I'm merely repeating all the things I said in an exhaustive manner when I wrote a thread about this subject specially for the jewish members of the board.

I try to be fair to the jewish people to the best of my abilities.

You'll never see me on this board denying the legitimacy of the national identity of modern jews like you, Lipush, toastman, ForeverYoung, Sally deny the legitimacy of the palestinian national identity at least once a day, and Roudy at least 50 times a day.

The problem is that my recognition of the legitimacy of your national identity is not enough for you...

You want people to accept a mithological jewish ancestry linking you (the modern jewish people) to the ancient jewish people (the semitic people who lived in the Middle East).

And this is insane, hunter... you're asking me to deny a reality that's in front of my eyes and this is where I have to draw the line and say no...

If you force me to choose between pleasing european jews by accepting an insanity, a nuttery or displeasing them by telling the truth you probably know what I and any reasonable person will choose.

Answering Kondor's question:

Toastman, hunter, Lipush, FY, SAYIT are not clowns when they say the are not european gentiles but a distinct people because this is what they really are.

But they do become clowns when they try to push on others an imaginary ancestry that goes against the most basic empirical evidence.

I'm not "denigrating" the jewish people by saying this as SAYIT put it. If you don't want to be called a clown don't display clownish behavior.

This is exactly the way I treat the palestinian national identity.

The palestinian national identity is real, they are not "generic arabs", syrians, egyptians like Roudy regurgitates over and over and over.

They really are a distinct people within the arab macro-ethnicity.

But just like your people, hunter, many palestinians do not think this recognition is enough. They want people to accept a non-existent strong, direct genetic link between the arab people of Palestine and one of the ancient biblical peoples like the Philistines to strenghthen their claim as natives of the land.

This is when palestinians also become clowns, insisting on a mithological origin based on fables, fantasies. At this point, all the serious arguments about the formation of the palestinian national identity gave way to sheer madness, nuttery and mockery.

They are indeed the natives of the land by virtue of having lived there for hundreds of years together with the native jews.

They are natives unlike ashkenazis like Gurion due to the fact they lived there for hundreds of years but they're not the descendents of any ancient biblical people.

(Askhenazi) Jews and Palestinians are not clowns when they say they possess legitimate real national identities. But they do behave like clowns when they try to convince others of a mithological ancient ancestry that only exists on their minds.

Only one problem the DNA shows that the vast majority are not Europeans racially, but Middle Eastern Jews with the same haplotype genetic marker as that found in Jews who had never left the Middle East. Only the Jews had this haplotype marker proving that the Ashkenazi Jews are related to the Sephardic Jews

 

[Phoenall]

Originally posted by Phoenall
Have you the results of their DNA tests to back up your claim ?

This post is the epitome of zionist insanity....

The british zionist prefers to deny a reality that's in front of his eyes, that was rubbed in his face instead of abandoning a mythological origin "backed-up" by DNA "tests" making a big fuss out of residual genetic inheritance financed by the israeli government to serve a political agenda.

In other words you have realised you don't have a leg to stand on so resort to the only vestige you have left. That is to deflect and derail by making outlandish claims and repeating ISLAMONAZI blood libels amd LIES rather than answer the questions.

The science of DNA can now determine in which village your ancestors came from 2000 years ago. This is why the Palestinians refuse to be tested as it will show they are recent migrants to the area.

And yes I am a Zionist in that I believe that the Jewish people should have a homeland in their cultural and religious area with the right to defend that homeland from attack.

 

[Billo_Really]

In other words you have realised you don't have a leg to stand on so resort to the only vestige you have left. That is to deflect and derail by making outlandish claims and repeating ISLAMONAZI blood libels amd LIES rather than answer the questions.

The science of DNA can now determine in which village your ancestors came from 2000 years ago. This is why the Palestinians refuse to be tested as it will show they are recent migrants to the area.

And yes I am a Zionist in that I believe that the Jewish people should have a homeland in their cultural and religious area with the right to defend that homeland from attack.

What you don't have, is a right to someone else's homeland.

 

[Billo_Really]

Only one problem the DNA shows that the vast majority are not Europeans racially, but Middle Eastern Jews with the same haplotype genetic marker as that found in Jews who had never left the Middle East. Only the Jews had this haplotype marker proving that the Ashkenazi Jews are related to the Sephardic Jews

Many of todays Israeli's, have no lineage with historical Israel.

many of today’s Israelis who emigrated from Europe after World War II have little or no genealogical connection to the land. According to...historical analysis, they are descendents of European converts, principally from the Kingdom of the Khazars in eastern Russia, who embraced Judaism in the Eighth Century, A.D.

The descendants of the Khazars then were driven from their native lands by invasion and conquest and – through this migration – created the Jewish populations of Eastern Europe

The Palestinian's, on the otherhand, are the direct descendents of the Israelites.

 

[MrMax]

In other words you have realised you don't have a leg to stand on so resort to the only vestige you have left. That is to deflect and derail by making outlandish claims and repeating ISLAMONAZI blood libels amd LIES rather than answer the questions.

The science of DNA can now determine in which village your ancestors came from 2000 years ago. This is why the Palestinians refuse to be tested as it will show they are recent migrants to the area.

And yes I am a Zionist in that I believe that the Jewish people should have a homeland in their cultural and religious area with the right to defend that homeland from attack.

What you don't have, is a right to someone else's homeland.

So when are you giving your land back to the Indians?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think that was said at all.


(COMMENT)

• The big question is: What would you debate?

Much of any Palestinian argument is based upon rights and protections that the Allied Powers fought for and extended to the Palestinian. Not a single contribution was ever made by the Arab-Palestinian or its ancestral linage.

• General Assembly Resolution 217 A (III) of 10 December 1948 - International Bill of Human Rights
• Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960
• International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (General Assembly resolution 2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966)
• Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination (A/RES/49/148 23 December 1994)
• United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (General Assembly 61/295 13 September 2007)

Most Respectfully,
R

In disregard to your excess in verbosity and your sliming the Arabs/Palestinians, I will thank you for your link.

Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples

We hear constantly from Israel's propagandists that the Palestinians have no rights because they have never had an independent country or state. There is also a list of other excuses why they don't have rights. Of course none of this is true and the arguments that follow are not true because they are based on false premise.

From your link:

1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.

2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.

None of which applies to the arab muslims as they were given the right to declare a nation on mandated land. The arab muslims exercised their right to free determination and refused the offer and went to war instead.
The arab muslims tried unsuccessfully to wipe out the Jews on 3 separate occasions against the very charter you are claiming was never granted to them. But these 3 attempts at genocide show that they used their right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
Not one nation is interfering in the internal affairs or disrespecting their sovereign rights unless you can prove otherwise from a reputable unbiased source. What is happening is that because of terrorist attacks, violence and belligerent actions by the arab muslims Israel is forced to take measures under the Geneva conventions and the UN charter to try and stop the attacks. This leads to the ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDISTS declaring that Israel is an apartheid state when the truth is the arab muslim state is apartheid in the extreme

Rights are not "given." They are inherent.

The Mandate did not have land.

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

For several thousand posting, on different threads, we've talked about the "exclusivity" (not admitting of Jews - the displacement of Arabs; cultural incompatibility: mutually exclusive plans of action "Jews 'v' Arabs) of the "homeland" (it either being Israeli or Arab). This bifurcation --- a black-or-white fallacy --- is a false dilemma that unreasonably restricts you to only two choices (Israeli 'v' Arab).

There is no reasonable position of "exclusivity" that can be claimed in the Middle East --- anywhere in the Middle East. It all changes over time.

In other words you have realised you don't have a leg to stand on so resort to the only vestige you have left. That is to deflect and derail by making outlandish claims and repeating ISLAMONAZI blood libels amd LIES rather than answer the questions.

The science of DNA can now determine in which village your ancestors came from 2000 years ago. This is why the Palestinians refuse to be tested as it will show they are recent migrants to the area.

And yes I am a Zionist in that I believe that the Jewish people should have a homeland in their cultural and religious area with the right to defend that homeland from attack.

What you don't have, is a right to someone else's homeland.

(COMMENT)

There is no exclusive homeland that can be attributed to any specific people in the Middle East. Even the term "homeland" is --- in itself --- problematic. Over the last three millennium, the people, the languages, the cultures, the governments, the borders, and even the land mass, have risen, fallen, changed, evolved, and mutated over time.

Today, the Israeli-Palestinian dispute, is a continuation of the changes that started well before the creation of the Rosetta Stone [a Ptolemaic age stele from Memphis (196 BC) on behalf of King Ptolemy V]. The entire region was once controlled by the family of a Macedonian General (Ancient Greek); (or as our friend PF Tinmore would say) foreigners, even before the Romans. Even the Mongols made a number of invasions into Region. The Arab bloodlines are entangled in all sorts of ways. It all changes with time.

The Sand Box, that is the Middle East, is constantly evolving. The attempt by either side to use ancient claims IS almost totally irrelevant to the modern day issue. Even going back a half a century (early 1960's) is almost too far removed to be of any use.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a "cherry-picked" concept of the "foreigners."

Rights are not "given." They are inherent.

The Mandate did not have land.

(COMMENT)

In the Arab World, there are no "inherent rights."

And if the "The Mandate did not have land;" neither did the Palestinians.

Your position is that some sovereignty granted the Palestinians some authority to establish self-government over the land.

Who was that and when?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

Originally posted by Kondor3
Clowns?

How are these people clowns?

I agree that they don't entirely conform to stereotypical Jewish appearances, but...

Do we know their ethnic origins?

Are they the descendants of non-Hebrew Jewish converts?

Are they the descendants of the original Hebrew Jewish tribes and Diaspora?

Are they hybrids, and a mixture of the two?

Considering the mobility of populations and their wide-ranging admixture over the centuries, I think I'd want to wait for DNA test results, actually.

Kondor, you (and the rest of the sane world) don't need any DNA test to know this guy is not an australian aborigine:

You don't need any DNA test to know this old man and his granddaughter are not Han chinese either:

Their phenotypes together with your common sense are more than enough for you to avoid this kind of gross mistakes.

But you refuse to accept that this girl is of slavic germanic stock without a DNA test:

You don't allow her phenotype and your common sense to guide you to the right conclusion because of you agenda, Kondor, because you desperately need this girl to be of semitic extraction so you can use her genes to legitimize the state of Israel.

So just like Phoenall you decide to deny a reality that's in front of your eyes.

Sally does make a good point when she says there's no absolute, perfect link between phenotype and genotype a point that MhunterB has made in the past, too.

But let's not make too much of a good argument... Phenotype is a pretty good indication of someone's ancestry... When you see a blond, blue-eyed, pink skinned German its almost certain he's at least 90% caucasian.

It's interesting to note that the rare occasions people become sistematically "suspicious" of the phenotype-genotype relationship is exactly in situations such as this, when they are trying to validate a mithological ancestry.

In your daily lives I bet you, MhunterB and Sally are not nearly as sceptical of phenotypes as you are when you are here debating Israel.

So if someday you lose interest in legitimising the creation of the state of Israel I'm sure you'll have no problem calling that girl what your eyes tell you she really is: an european female.

I take it you have seen the video of the blonde girl abusing the Israeli soldier, are you saying that she is not an arab Palestinian. Which would mean that all the non dark skinned black haired Palestinians are illegal invaders. Does it also mean all the Saudi arabs with very light skin are Europeans as well.

What a complete and utter illiterate fool you are, skin and hair colour by themselves does not denote race. Unless you are a RABID RACIST and will use this against anyone claiming to be Jewish, which you are doing.