I will not Bow!

[Sweet_Caroline]

Nowhere does it say that it does not say anything about pre-existing rights., have you read the mandate text or are just blabbing BS you have heard? .

What it says is:

" in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,"

And what was done to prejudice the civil and religious rights?

How about kicking hundreds of thousands of people out of their homes for starters?

Link?

 

[SAYIT]

Both sides can argue their Starting Position with some considerable merit.

Which, in the end, gets us nowhere.

In the Real World, the situation is what it is.

And, when both sides dig in their heels and will not compromise in the practical world...

That leaves very little to do but deal with Reality rather than what might have been.

The reality of the situation is, that Israel has the upper hand, and will continue to hold it.

A high-end straight flush, as opposed to the pair of deuces that the Palestinians are holding.

Like fools, the Palestinians keep 'kicking' the bet with that pair of deuces, rather than simply 'calling'.

And, of course, the Israelis, with their vastly superior hand, keep 'kicking' the pot again.

And, of course, the Israelis have a far bigger stack of chips to play with, as well.

As the scattered collection of Palestinian-held lands continues to rapidly evaporate and shrink towards oblivion, until the Palestinians are damned-near standing on top of each others' shoulders...

The Palestinians are rapidly running out of chips, but they're so deep into this betting sequence that it's like an addiction... they know, intellectually, that they're going to lose, but, subconsciously, they can't help themselves, and keep bumping the pot...

Time to simply 'call' the bet, next round, cut their losses, and walk away from the table with at least a few chips left to their name...

They could have saved themselves the time and trouble, and a shitload of chips, but their inexperience and political immaturity and lack of common-sense and cohesion have cost them dearly...

They need someone sane, to arise as a leader, to take them away from all this, and lead them into some other land that will have them, as new and valued members of a different society...

I'm sure that the entire world - and even the Jews - would be more than happy to kick in a few score billions of dollars, to see them safely shifted elsewhere, and set up with enough to make a new and good start - to build new and far happier lives - something akin to Compensation, or Wargeld...

There is no way that the Palestinians walk away from the poker table, victorious - no way.

Compromise, or Population Transfer coupled with Compensation - are the only practical solutions to their desperate, self-inflicted plight.

The only alternative is that the Palestinians will lose everything - a state of affairs that is rapidly approaching on the timeline for all of this.

Losers, in a lost cause, beating a dead horse, to no practical and useful purpose.

It's over.

Very good points, but I think that we are past the point where there is any possibility of the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state. The Israelis in power don't want one and there are too many Jews now living in what could have been a sovereign Palestinian state. They cannot be moved out.

The Palestinians are slowly coming the realization that a sovereign Palestinian state is not longer a viable option.

From the Palestinian point of view, the best thing they can do is sit tight, peacefully protest their plight as people living under the control of Israel without any rights of a citizen of Israel and allow demographics to do what they will. It may be in a generation or two, but non-Jews will become the majority in the lands controlled by Israel, at which point it will become untenable for the Israelis to withhold rights and citizenship to the non-Jews under their control.

Population transfer will not happen. Not even the U.S. would condone such an action.

In the meantime a few more generations of Palestinians will wallow in that self-imposed plight, whining about Israel's policies while hoping that someday Israel may grant them citizenship. Not the smartest path to a bright future. As Kondor notes, what is available to them is shrinking as we post. They may realize the folly of their ways, accept some compromise, and then become an independent territory of a neighboring Arab State like Jordan. Israel will not commit demographic suicide and to suggest the Palestinians continue to kick the bet with their "pair of deuces" while Israel is showing aces is not just silliness, it's criminal.

 

[Kondor3]

And it was also to assist the immigrants in obtaining Palestinian citizenship. These citizens would be on equal footing with the other Palestinians in Palestine.

An exclusive Jewish state was not a part of the plan.

Palestine was to be a Jewish state. The Arabs were given their own countries. You know that and it has been told to you many times.

The mandate clearly states that there was to be a Jewish Home IN PALESTINE, not a Jewish state...

Interpretation A: yours - a Jewish home - embedded within a nonexistent polity.

Interpretation B: theirs - a Jewish NATIONAL home - carved from the unincorporated region known loosely as Palestine.

It's an old argument.

Balfour (the foundation and basis for everything that followed) used the phrase 'Jewish NATIONAL home', not 'Jewish home'.

NATIONAL... as in 'NATION'...!!!

Making Interpretation B at least as valid as A; all bullshit weasel-like clarifications to the contrary notwithstanding.

Interpretation B has the added merit of having been brought to Reality by the 'side' that was more politically savvy and better-prepared, and now maintained by the will and determination of most of the Jews of the world, and the Israelis in particular.

The Jews changed their destiny by making Interpretation B the operative one in the Real World.

"...The mandate only discusses Palestine, no other countries are mentioned for the Christians and Muslims of Palestine..."

Insignificant and immaterial, for those subscribing to Interpretation B.

The absence of such mention may easily and meritoriously be set aside as an implicit assumption that these others would find their own destinies in those portions of Old Palestine which were NOT allocated to be part of the new Jewish NATIONAL homeland.

A delightfully easy work-around, for those who wish to use it.

"...The Mandate does require that the rights of the Christians and Muslims not be impinged IN PALESTINE..."

True.

Then again, neither Balfour nor its successor Intentions articulated in the Mandate had envisioned either (1) the Great Arab Skeddadle of 1948, as the Palestinians ran away and abandoned their lands, nor (2) repeated attacks by both neighboring Arab states and the Palestinians themselves, which served to abandon and set aside those rights, for all practical purposes, by not accepting the LON and UN proposals for a peaceful Partition, and forcing the Jews of Old Palestine to 'tweak' their implementation of the UN Proposal, for safety's sake, and conveniently supplying the Jews with the very rationale and basis and excuse they needed for undertaking that tweaking.

Dumbass Palestinians.

When you shoot at people, you must expect return fire.

When you start the shooting, and then lose, you cannot expect much sympathy.

Thus, the Muslim-Arab Palestinians find themselves in one helluva self-inflicted dilemma.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine was to be a Jewish state. The Arabs were given their own countries. You know that and it has been told to you many times.

The mandate clearly states that there was to be a Jewish Home IN PALESTINE, not a Jewish state...

Interpretation A: yours - a Jewish home - embedded within a nonexistent polity.

Interpretation B: theirs - a Jewish NATIONAL home - carved from the unincorporated region known loosely as Palestine.

It's an old argument.

Balfour (the foundation and basis for everything that followed) used the phrase 'Jewish NATIONAL home', not 'Jewish home'.

NATIONAL... as in 'NATION'...!!!

Making Interpretation B at least as valid as A; all bullshit weasel-like clarifications to the contrary notwithstanding.

Interpretation B has the added merit of having been brought to Reality by the 'side' that was more politically savvy and better-prepared, and now maintained by the will and determination of most of the Jews of the world, and the Israelis in particular.

The Jews changed their destiny by making Interpretation B the operative one in the Real World.

"...The mandate only discusses Palestine, no other countries are mentioned for the Christians and Muslims of Palestine..."

Insignificant and immaterial, for those subscribing to Interpretation B.

The absence of such mention may easily and meritoriously be set aside as an implicit assumption that these others would find their own destinies in those portions of Old Palestine which were NOT allocated to be part of the new Jewish NATIONAL homeland.

An easy work-around, for those who wish to use it.

"...The Mandate does require that the rights of the Christians and Muslims not be impinged IN PALESTINE..."

True.

Then again, neither Balfour nor its successor Intentions articulated in the Mandate had envisioned either (1) the Great Arab Skeddadle of 1948, as the Palestinians ran away and abandoned their lands, nor (2) repeated attacks by both neighboring Arab states and the Palestinians themselves, which served to abandon and set aside those rights, for all practical purposes, by not accepting the LON and UN proposals for a peaceful Partition, and forcing the Jews of Old Palestine to 'tweak' their implementation of the UN Proposal, for safety's sake, and conveniently supplying the Jews with the very rationale and basis and excuse they needed for undertaking that tweaking.

When you shoot at people, you must expect return fire.

When you start the shooting, and then lose, you cannot expect much sympathy.

Thus, the Muslim-Arab Palestinians find themselves in one helluva self-inflicted dilemma.

Palestine was never Britain's to give away.

And they didn't.

 

[montelatici]

i Thus, the Muslim-Arab Palestinians find themselves in one helluva self-inflicted dilemma.

You don't think Irgun and Haganah terrorists killing Christian and Muslim women and children while ethnically cleansing Arab villages might have cause Palestinians to leave? You think it was self-inflicted?

Unbelievable. it's like you people have been living in a separate reality. This is such a biased forum, I've seen nothing like it. It is like Stormfront with an opposite point of view.

 

[montelatici]

By the way Kondor you are probably the most partisan hack I have dealt with. You compare to the famous Sciroco on another forum. He expresses the same point of view and is the forum's laughingstock.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

i Thus, the Muslim-Arab Palestinians find themselves in one helluva self-inflicted dilemma.

You don't think Irgun and Haganah terrorists killing Christian and Muslim women and children while ethnically cleansing Arab villages might have cause Palestinians to leave? You think it was self-inflicted?

Unbelievable. it's like you people have been living in a separate reality. This is such a biased forum, I've seen nothing like it. It is like Stormfront with an opposite point of view.

"Killing Christian and Muslim women and children"--That is a strawman argument. They weren't killed deliberately. Jews aren't Nazis. It was a war.

 

[Kondor3]

i Thus, the Muslim-Arab Palestinians find themselves in one helluva self-inflicted dilemma.

You don't think Irgun and Haganah terrorists killing Christian and Muslim women and children while ethnically cleansing Arab villages might have cause Palestinians to leave? You think it was self-inflicted?

That, too, is an old argument.

Jewish militancy was a reaction of Arab militancy, not the other way around.

We can piss and moan for days about Arab attacks upon Jewish residents and immigrants in the years and decades and centuries prior to 1948, but to what end?

We can also nit-pick over how many Arabs were driven out, versus the huge numbers of Arabs who were instructed by Arab leadership to abandon their homes and get out of the way of the coming Arab invasion forces.

I seriously doubt that any such comparison of numbers - how many were driven out versus how many skeddadled on their own or were told to leave and thus complied - will work well in your favor.

...Unbelievable. it's like you people have been living in a separate reality. This is such a biased forum, I've seen nothing like it...

Yes.

Indeed.

Pro-Israel supporters do, indeed, live in a Reality that differs from that of pro-Palestinian supporters.

The former, however, have an advantage over the latter, in that their Reality is actually operative in the universe which we jointly inhabit.

It is like Stormfront with an opposite point of view.

Thank you for the gratuitous Godwin-ism... always good to get one of those out of the way, early in the day.

 

[Kondor3]

By the way Kondor you are probably the most partisan hack I have dealt with. You compare to the famous Sciroco on another forum. He expresses the same point of view and is the forum's laughingstock.

Thank you for your feedback.

 

[Kondor3]

The mandate clearly states that there was to be a Jewish Home IN PALESTINE, not a Jewish state...

Interpretation A: yours - a Jewish home - embedded within a nonexistent polity.

Interpretation B: theirs - a Jewish NATIONAL home - carved from the unincorporated region known loosely as Palestine.

It's an old argument.

Balfour (the foundation and basis for everything that followed) used the phrase 'Jewish NATIONAL home', not 'Jewish home'.

NATIONAL... as in 'NATION'...!!!

Making Interpretation B at least as valid as A; all bullshit weasel-like clarifications to the contrary notwithstanding.

Interpretation B has the added merit of having been brought to Reality by the 'side' that was more politically savvy and better-prepared, and now maintained by the will and determination of most of the Jews of the world, and the Israelis in particular.

The Jews changed their destiny by making Interpretation B the operative one in the Real World.


Insignificant and immaterial, for those subscribing to Interpretation B.

The absence of such mention may easily and meritoriously be set aside as an implicit assumption that these others would find their own destinies in those portions of Old Palestine which were NOT allocated to be part of the new Jewish NATIONAL homeland.

An easy work-around, for those who wish to use it.

"...The Mandate does require that the rights of the Christians and Muslims not be impinged IN PALESTINE..."

True.

Then again, neither Balfour nor its successor Intentions articulated in the Mandate had envisioned either (1) the Great Arab Skeddadle of 1948, as the Palestinians ran away and abandoned their lands, nor (2) repeated attacks by both neighboring Arab states and the Palestinians themselves, which served to abandon and set aside those rights, for all practical purposes, by not accepting the LON and UN proposals for a peaceful Partition, and forcing the Jews of Old Palestine to 'tweak' their implementation of the UN Proposal, for safety's sake, and conveniently supplying the Jews with the very rationale and basis and excuse they needed for undertaking that tweaking.

When you shoot at people, you must expect return fire.

When you start the shooting, and then lose, you cannot expect much sympathy.

Thus, the Muslim-Arab Palestinians find themselves in one helluva self-inflicted dilemma.

Palestine was never Britain's to give away.

And they didn't.

That, too, is an old argument.

One which you lost in 1948.

You (metaphorically speaking, the Palestinians) should have carved-off your own slice, and been content with that, back then, while you still had the chance.

You chose poorly, and are now suffering the consequences, with no prospect of a Do-Over in sight.

None of that old shit matters any longer.

It's over.

 

[montelatici]

Both sides can argue their Starting Position with some considerable merit.

Which, in the end, gets us nowhere.

In the Real World, the situation is what it is.

And, when both sides dig in their heels and will not compromise in the practical world...

That leaves very little to do but deal with Reality rather than what might have been.

The reality of the situation is, that Israel has the upper hand, and will continue to hold it.

A high-end straight flush, as opposed to the pair of deuces that the Palestinians are holding.

Like fools, the Palestinians keep 'kicking' the bet with that pair of deuces, rather than simply 'calling'.

And, of course, the Israelis, with their vastly superior hand, keep 'kicking' the pot again.

And, of course, the Israelis have a far bigger stack of chips to play with, as well.

As the scattered collection of Palestinian-held lands continues to rapidly evaporate and shrink towards oblivion, until the Palestinians are damned-near standing on top of each others' shoulders...

The Palestinians are rapidly running out of chips, but they're so deep into this betting sequence that it's like an addiction... they know, intellectually, that they're going to lose, but, subconsciously, they can't help themselves, and keep bumping the pot...

Time to simply 'call' the bet, next round, cut their losses, and walk away from the table with at least a few chips left to their name...

They could have saved themselves the time and trouble, and a shitload of chips, but their inexperience and political immaturity and lack of common-sense and cohesion have cost them dearly...

They need someone sane, to arise as a leader, to take them away from all this, and lead them into some other land that will have them, as new and valued members of a different society...

I'm sure that the entire world - and even the Jews - would be more than happy to kick in a few score billions of dollars, to see them safely shifted elsewhere, and set up with enough to make a new and good start - to build new and far happier lives - something akin to Compensation, or Wargeld...

There is no way that the Palestinians walk away from the poker table, victorious - no way.

Compromise, or Population Transfer coupled with Compensation - are the only practical solutions to their desperate, self-inflicted plight.

The only alternative is that the Palestinians will lose everything - a state of affairs that is rapidly approaching on the timeline for all of this.

Losers, in a lost cause, beating a dead horse, to no practical and useful purpose.

It's over.

Very good points, but I think that we are past the point where there is any possibility of the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state. The Israelis in power don't want one and there are too many Jews now living in what could have been a sovereign Palestinian state. They cannot be moved out.

The Palestinians are slowly coming the realization that a sovereign Palestinian state is not longer a viable option.

From the Palestinian point of view, the best thing they can do is sit tight, peacefully protest their plight as people living under the control of Israel without any rights of a citizen of Israel and allow demographics to do what they will. It may be in a generation or two, but non-Jews will become the majority in the lands controlled by Israel, at which point it will become untenable for the Israelis to withhold rights and citizenship to the non-Jews under their control.

Population transfer will not happen. Not even the U.S. would condone such an action.

In the meantime a few more generations of Palestinians will wallow in that self-imposed plight, whining about Israel's policies while hoping that someday Israel may grant them citizenship. Not the smartest path to a bright future. As Kondor notes, what is available to them is shrinking as we post. They may realize the folly of their ways, accept some compromise, and then become an independent territory of a neighboring Arab State like Jordan. Israel will not commit demographic suicide and to suggest the Palestinians continue to kick the bet with their "pair of deuces" while Israel is showing aces is not just silliness, it's criminal.

Israel will have little choice. Even the U.S. eventually abandoned its support for South Africa which at the time was strategically more important.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

By the way Kondor you are probably the most partisan hack I have dealt with. You compare to the famous Sciroco on another forum. He expresses the same point of view and is the forum's laughingstock.

Thank you for your feedback.

Kondor is like one of those Danish or Dutch people who save Jews during the Holocaust. A righteous Gentile.

 

[montelatici]

And what was done to prejudice the civil and religious rights?

Comedian I see.

You're stuck for a response. Thought so.

You were serious. The Israelis murdered thousands of civilian Christians and Muslims, destroyed their towns and villages, poisoned their wells drove them out of Palestine. And you ask what civil rights were prejudiced?

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Comedian I see.

You're stuck for a response. Thought so.

You were serious. The Israelis murdered thousands of civilian Christians and Muslims, destroyed their towns and villages, poisoned their wells drove them out of Palestine. And you ask what civil rights were prejudiced?

Can you give a link?

 

[Phoenall]

And it was also to assist the immigrants in obtaining Palestinian citizenship. These citizens would be on equal footing with the other Palestinians in Palestine.

An exclusive Jewish state was not a part of the plan.

Palestine was to be a Jewish state. The Arabs were given their own countries. You know that and it has been told to you many times.

The mandate clearly states that there was to be a Jewish Home IN PALESTINE, not a Jewish state. The mandate only discusses Palestine, no other countries are mentioned for the Christians and Muslims of Palestine. The Mandate does require that the rights of the Christians and Muslims not be impinged IN PALESTINE.

Where do you come off making outrageous claims when the opposite of what you say is written in black and white and presented to you on a platter?

And the Palestine that is mentioned is what is now Lebanon, Syria, trans Jordan and Israel. And you are wrong on your premise that the mandate only states Christians and muslims as it also gives the same rights to the Jews. So you see little boy when the mandate created Syria from the land of Palestine and then created trans Jordan it defined the rights of the Jews in those new nations under British control. Neither became an independent state until after Israel was recognised and were both still part of the British and French mandate of Palestine. Have you read the full terms of the mandate and seen exactly what it contains.
Things like this

or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connexion of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country;

Article 2.

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.

Article 5.





The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power.

(Britain then gave Transjordanian Palestine- about 70% of Palestine- to King Abdullah and called it Transjordan. It is now called Jordan. This is not to say that that the Jews were promised that they could settle in all of Palestine. Palestine was a loose regional term in those days and even included Damascus. See article 25 and chapter 11 on the Weizmann-Faisal agreement)

Article 6.

The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.

(destroys your European invasion theory and islamonazi lies)

Article 7.

The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine

Article 25.

In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine

(Palestine originally included land in what is now Jordan)

as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions,

(Jewish immigration east of the Jordan might be put on hold if the Mandate authorities thought it inapplicable.)

and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18.

The San Remo agreement 1920

So you see the mandate says that Jordan is part of Palestine and that it was given to the hashemites illegally

 

[Phoenall]

Both sides can argue their Starting Position with some considerable merit.

Which, in the end, gets us nowhere.

In the Real World, the situation is what it is.

And, when both sides dig in their heels and will not compromise in the practical world...

That leaves very little to do but deal with Reality rather than what might have been.

The reality of the situation is, that Israel has the upper hand, and will continue to hold it.

A high-end straight flush, as opposed to the pair of deuces that the Palestinians are holding.

Like fools, the Palestinians keep 'kicking' the bet with that pair of deuces, rather than simply 'calling'.

And, of course, the Israelis, with their vastly superior hand, keep 'kicking' the pot again.

And, of course, the Israelis have a far bigger stack of chips to play with, as well.

As the scattered collection of Palestinian-held lands continues to rapidly evaporate and shrink towards oblivion, until the Palestinians are damned-near standing on top of each others' shoulders...

The Palestinians are rapidly running out of chips, but they're so deep into this betting sequence that it's like an addiction... they know, intellectually, that they're going to lose, but, subconsciously, they can't help themselves, and keep bumping the pot...

Time to simply 'call' the bet, next round, cut their losses, and walk away from the table with at least a few chips left to their name...

They could have saved themselves the time and trouble, and a shitload of chips, but their inexperience and political immaturity and lack of common-sense and cohesion have cost them dearly...

They need someone sane, to arise as a leader, to take them away from all this, and lead them into some other land that will have them, as new and valued members of a different society...

I'm sure that the entire world - and even the Jews - would be more than happy to kick in a few score billions of dollars, to see them safely shifted elsewhere, and set up with enough to make a new and good start - to build new and far happier lives - something akin to Compensation, or Wargeld...

There is no way that the Palestinians walk away from the poker table, victorious - no way.

Compromise, or Population Transfer coupled with Compensation - are the only practical solutions to their desperate, self-inflicted plight.

The only alternative is that the Palestinians will lose everything - a state of affairs that is rapidly approaching on the timeline for all of this.

Losers, in a lost cause, beating a dead horse, to no practical and useful purpose.

It's over.

Very good points, but I think that we are past the point where there is any possibility of the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state. The Israelis in power don't want one and there are too many Jews now living in what could have been a sovereign Palestinian state. They cannot be moved out.

The Palestinians are slowly coming the realization that a sovereign Palestinian state is not longer a viable option.

From the Palestinian point of view, the best thing they can do is sit tight, peacefully protest their plight as people living under the control of Israel without any rights of a citizen of Israel and allow demographics to do what they will. It may be in a generation or two, but non-Jews will become the majority in the lands controlled by Israel, at which point it will become untenable for the Israelis to withhold rights and citizenship to the non-Jews under their control.

Population transfer will not happen. Not even the U.S. would condone such an action.

The US would not have a say in the matter, just look at the break up of Yugoslavia, Sudan and Darfur

 

[Phoenall]

And it was also to assist the immigrants in obtaining Palestinian citizenship. These citizens would be on equal footing with the other Palestinians in Palestine.

An exclusive Jewish state was not a part of the plan.

Palestine was to be a Jewish state. The Arabs were given their own countries. You know that and it has been told to you many times.

The mandate clearly states that there was to be a Jewish Home IN PALESTINE, not a Jewish state. The mandate only discusses Palestine, no other countries are mentioned for the Christians and Muslims of Palestine. The Mandate does require that the rights of the Christians and Muslims not be impinged IN PALESTINE.

Where do you come off making outrageous claims when the opposite of what you say is written in black and white and presented to you on a platter?

The mandate actually says

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connexion of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country;

So it does say a Jewish state or NATIONAL HOME. and trans Jordan is mentioned in the mandate as being part of this NATIONAL HOME.

 

[Phoenall]

The mandate clearly states that there was to be a Jewish Home IN PALESTINE, not a Jewish state. The mandate only discusses Palestine, no other countries are mentioned for the Christians and Muslims of Palestine. The Mandate does require that the rights of the Christians and Muslims not be impinged IN PALESTINE.

Where do you come off making outrageous claims when the opposite of what you say is written in black and white and presented to you on a platter?

The land was reconstituted as a home for the Jews recognizing their pre-existing right to that land. The arabs were given the same rights in other countries.

Nowhere does it say that it does not say anything about pre-existing rights., have you read the mandate text or are just blabbing BS you have heard? .

What it says is:

" in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,"

Why do you always remove the part that gives the Jews RIGHTS in the whole of the M.E ? Is it because you hate the Jews so much ?

 

[montelatici]

Both sides can argue their Starting Position with some considerable merit.

Which, in the end, gets us nowhere.

In the Real World, the situation is what it is.

And, when both sides dig in their heels and will not compromise in the practical world...

That leaves very little to do but deal with Reality rather than what might have been.

The reality of the situation is, that Israel has the upper hand, and will continue to hold it.

A high-end straight flush, as opposed to the pair of deuces that the Palestinians are holding.

Like fools, the Palestinians keep 'kicking' the bet with that pair of deuces, rather than simply 'calling'.

And, of course, the Israelis, with their vastly superior hand, keep 'kicking' the pot again.

And, of course, the Israelis have a far bigger stack of chips to play with, as well.

As the scattered collection of Palestinian-held lands continues to rapidly evaporate and shrink towards oblivion, until the Palestinians are damned-near standing on top of each others' shoulders...

The Palestinians are rapidly running out of chips, but they're so deep into this betting sequence that it's like an addiction... they know, intellectually, that they're going to lose, but, subconsciously, they can't help themselves, and keep bumping the pot...

Time to simply 'call' the bet, next round, cut their losses, and walk away from the table with at least a few chips left to their name...

They could have saved themselves the time and trouble, and a shitload of chips, but their inexperience and political immaturity and lack of common-sense and cohesion have cost them dearly...

They need someone sane, to arise as a leader, to take them away from all this, and lead them into some other land that will have them, as new and valued members of a different society...

I'm sure that the entire world - and even the Jews - would be more than happy to kick in a few score billions of dollars, to see them safely shifted elsewhere, and set up with enough to make a new and good start - to build new and far happier lives - something akin to Compensation, or Wargeld...

There is no way that the Palestinians walk away from the poker table, victorious - no way.

Compromise, or Population Transfer coupled with Compensation - are the only practical solutions to their desperate, self-inflicted plight.

The only alternative is that the Palestinians will lose everything - a state of affairs that is rapidly approaching on the timeline for all of this.

Losers, in a lost cause, beating a dead horse, to no practical and useful purpose.

It's over.

Very good points, but I think that we are past the point where there is any possibility of the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state. The Israelis in power don't want one and there are too many Jews now living in what could have been a sovereign Palestinian state. They cannot be moved out.

The Palestinians are slowly coming the realization that a sovereign Palestinian state is not longer a viable option.

From the Palestinian point of view, the best thing they can do is sit tight, peacefully protest their plight as people living under the control of Israel without any rights of a citizen of Israel and allow demographics to do what they will. It may be in a generation or two, but non-Jews will become the majority in the lands controlled by Israel, at which point it will become untenable for the Israelis to withhold rights and citizenship to the non-Jews under their control.

Population transfer will not happen. Not even the U.S. would condone such an action.

The US would not have a say in the matter, just look at the break up of Yugoslavia, Sudan and Darfur

Neither Yugoslavia or Sudan was receiving massive U.S. financial and diplomatic support. Israel would be sanctioned to bankruptcy if it carried out ethnic cleansing and/or genocide.

 

[Phoenall]

Nowhere does it say that it does not say anything about pre-existing rights., have you read the mandate text or are just blabbing BS you have heard? .

What it says is:

" in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,"

And what was done to prejudice the civil and religious rights?

How about kicking hundreds of thousands of people out of their homes for starters?

Yes were did the arabs get of on doing that when they knew it was against the UN charter and the Mandate.............