I will not Bow!

[Kondor3]

Again, more countries in Europe fought against the Axis Powers than joined them...

Again, nobody is disputing that.

...Once defeated and occupied, the anti-semites within the society held sway, how can you not understand this...

Again, nobody is disputing that.

You and your opposites on this question merely differ pertaining to scope and scale.

Italy which was not occupied and they could refuse Nazi orders protected Jews...

Again, nobody is disputing that.

...I suspect most Europeans would have done the same if they had not been occupied:...

2,000 years of European pogroms, persecutions, expulsions and massacres - virtually all of it long before the advent of Fascism, suggest a different conclusion.

 

[montelatici]

Again, more countries in Europe fought against the Axis Powers than joined them...

Again, nobody is disputing that.

...Once defeated and occupied, the anti-semites within the society held sway, how can you not understand this...

Again, nobody is disputing that.

You and your opposites on this question merely differ pertaining to scope and scale.

Italy which was not occupied and they could refuse Nazi orders protected Jews...

Again, nobody is disputing that.

...I suspect most Europeans would have done the same if they had not been occupied:...

2,000 years of European pogroms, persecutions, expulsions and massacres - virtually all of it long before the advent of Fascism, suggest a different conclusion.

I don't know what the 2.000 years of pograms have to do with my hypothesis that Nazi occupied countries would have behaved like Italy and Italians had they been free to do so.

 

[Kondor3]

Again, more countries in Europe fought against the Axis Powers than joined them...

Again, nobody is disputing that.


Again, nobody is disputing that.

You and your opposites on this question merely differ pertaining to scope and scale.


Again, nobody is disputing that.

...I suspect most Europeans would have done the same if they had not been occupied:...

2,000 years of European pogroms, persecutions, expulsions and massacres - virtually all of it long before the advent of Fascism, suggest a different conclusion.

I don't know what the 2.000 years of pograms have to do with my hypothesis that Nazi occupied countries would have behaved like Italy and Italians had they been free to do so.

Yes you do.

You're just being obtuse.

But I will spell it out for you, nonetheless.

The 2000 years of pogroms, persecutions, expulsions and massacres of Jews, correlate to the mindset of the Europeans of those times, and the undercurrent of anti-Semitism still highly extant and operative across the European continent at the time of the Holocaust.

Translation: Any collection of peoples whose culture and traditions and society are deeply immersed in a centuries-old persecution of another, are far more likely, as a people, to support and participate in any attempt to actually exterminate the target population.

And, if you cannot see that correlation, then I doubt that anything else that I say in that regard will prove efficacious.

 

[montelatici]

Again, nobody is disputing that.


Again, nobody is disputing that.

You and your opposites on this question merely differ pertaining to scope and scale.


Again, nobody is disputing that.


2,000 years of European pogroms, persecutions, expulsions and massacres - virtually all of it long before the advent of Fascism, suggest a different conclusion.

I don't know what the 2.000 years of pograms have to do with my hypothesis that Nazi occupied countries would have behaved like Italy and Italians had they been free to do so.

Yes you do.

You're just being obtuse.

But I will spell it out for you, nonetheless.

The 2000 years of pogroms, persecutions, expulsions and massacres of Jews, correlate to the mindset of the Europeans of those times, and the undercurrent of anti-Semitism still highly extant and operative across the European continent at the time of the Holocaust.

Translation: Any collection of peoples whose culture and traditions and society are deeply immersed in a centuries-old persecution of another, are far more likely, as a people, to support and participate in any attempt to actually exterminate the target population.

And, if you cannot see that correlation, then I doubt that anything else that I say in that regard will prove efficacious.

Well, that means that you believe that white Americans, because of the history, could easily return to lynching blacks. I don't think so.

 

[Kondor3]

Well, that means that you believe that white Americans, because of the history, could easily return to lynching blacks. I don't think so.

That sort of persecution only lasted 200-400 years, not 2000.

And it was not based on the idea that Blacks had killed the Son of God, nor was it based upon the idea that Blacks controlled Commerce and Banking, nor was it based upon the idea that Blacks kept to themselves and were therefore suspect, nor was it based upon the idea that Blacks were an insidious parasitical drain upon Western civilization, as the Jews had unfairly been attributed as being.

Apples and oranges, and a Major League -caliber faux analogy.

Our colleague's original observation about long-running, deep-running anti-Semitism in Europe is a well-documented and incontrovertible and unassailable fact, despite your protestations to the contrary, and her observation stands - having sufficient merit and substance to do so regardless of your attempted (and failed) assault on its veracity.

End of seqeuence.

 

[montelatici]

Well, that means that you believe that white Americans, because of the history, could easily return to lynching blacks. I don't think so.

That sort of persecution only lasted 200-400 years, not 2000.

And it was not based on the idea that Blacks had killed the Son of God, nor was it based upon the idea that Blacks controlled Commerce and Banking, nor was it based upon the idea that Blacks kept to themselves and were therefore suspect, nor was it based upon the idea that Blacks were an insidious parasitical drain upon Western civilization, as the Jews had unfairly been attributed as being.

Apples and oranges, and a Major League -caliber faux analogy.

Our colleague's original observation about long-running, deep-running anti-Semitism in Europe is a well-documented and incontrovertible and unassailable fact, despite your protestations to the contrary, and her observation stands - having sufficient merit and substance to do so regardless of your attempted (and failed) assault on its veracity.

End of seqeuence.

So, if something lasts 400-500 years it is different from lasting 2,000 years. I see.

 

[Sally]

Well, that means that you believe that white Americans, because of the history, could easily return to lynching blacks. I don't think so.

That sort of persecution only lasted 200-400 years, not 2000.

And it was not based on the idea that Blacks had killed the Son of God, nor was it based upon the idea that Blacks controlled Commerce and Banking, nor was it based upon the idea that Blacks kept to themselves and were therefore suspect, nor was it based upon the idea that Blacks were an insidious parasitical drain upon Western civilization, as the Jews had unfairly been attributed as being.

Apples and oranges, and a Major League -caliber faux analogy.

Our colleague's original observation about long-running, deep-running anti-Semitism in Europe is a well-documented and incontrovertible and unassailable fact, despite your protestations to the contrary, and her observation stands - having sufficient merit and substance to do so regardless of your attempted (and failed) assault on its veracity.

End of seqeuence.

So, if something lasts 400-500 years it is different from lasting 2,000 years. I see.

One thing that was left out is that the Muslims are the ones still into slavery in these modern times. My goodness, who would want to be an abed? Anyhow, speaking of years, you might want to contact this Christian author and tell him you disagree with everything he is saying.

https://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/onlinediscipleship/understandingislam/IslamHistory0212.aspx

 

[Kondor3]

Well, that means that you believe that white Americans, because of the history, could easily return to lynching blacks. I don't think so.

That sort of persecution only lasted 200-400 years, not 2000.

And it was not based on the idea that Blacks had killed the Son of God, nor was it based upon the idea that Blacks controlled Commerce and Banking, nor was it based upon the idea that Blacks kept to themselves and were therefore suspect, nor was it based upon the idea that Blacks were an insidious parasitical drain upon Western civilization, as the Jews had unfairly been attributed as being.

Apples and oranges, and a Major League -caliber faux analogy.

Our colleague's original observation about long-running, deep-running anti-Semitism in Europe is a well-documented and incontrovertible and unassailable fact, despite your protestations to the contrary, and her observation stands - having sufficient merit and substance to do so regardless of your attempted (and failed) assault on its veracity.

End of seqeuence.

So, if something lasts 400-500 years it is different from lasting 2,000 years. I see.

You cherry-pick Duration and ignore the substantive differences in multiple Causes and Accusations and Motives and Flashpoints as touched-upon in the second paragraph.

Inadequate for our purposes here.

I was right to call an end to the sequence when I did, apparently.

I don't do 'Automatic Gainsay' - nor Ankle-Biting ad nauseum ad infinitum.

 

[Phoenall]

1. Christians, as the wealthiest of the Palestinians, had influence far beyond their numbers, as is the case in almost every society.

2. Christians not only fought against the Europeans along with Muslim Palestinians, they formed an important part of the Syrian Army's officer corps.

"Syrian Christians are also officers in the armed forces of Syria. They have preferred to mix in with Muslims rather than form all-Christian units and brigades, and fought alongside their Muslim compatriots against Israeli forces in the various Arab-Israeli conflicts of the 20th century."

Christianity in Syria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Syria is not Palestine little boy, and the arabs would not allow any non muslim to be richer than them

In general non muslims are not allowed to bear arms or fight in wars under the laws of dhimma. So show were Christians have been allowed to fight alongside Palestinians against Israel EVER

Syrians are Arabs and some of the Syrian Army's best officers are Christian, and bear arms.

Christianity in Syria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Arab Liberation Army, the only Arab defense outfit considered Palestinian in 1947-48, contained Palestinian Christians as well as European Christians, German and British.

Arab Liberation Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Lebanese Army's officer corps is majority non-muslim while the troops are mostly Muslim.

Where in the heck did you get the idea that non-Muslims can't serve in the military of Muslim countries these days?[/QUOTE]




The dhimma laws that are in existence in all extremist Islamic states like iran, gaza, west bank, Syria etc. By the way here is the truth about Christians in the M.E.

Palestinian Areas « Christian & Church Persecution

Palestinian Authority Declares Baptist Church Illegitimate in West Bank
Thursday, March 29th, 2012

The Palestinian Authority declared that the First Baptist Church of Bethlehem, which is adjacent to the site of Jesus' birthplace, is illegitimate, the Christian Post reports.

Israel and the Plight of Mideast Christians
Saturday, March 10th, 2012

While the future of the church in the West Bank town of Bethlehem is in jeopardy, Christians are not endangered but flourishing is Israel, Michael Oren writes in The Wall Street Journal.

 

[Phoenall]

also prominent palestinian christians in liberation:
Edward said
ghada karmi
huwaida arraf
diana buttu
noura erakat
nadia hijab
rafeef zaida

not to mention organizations like kairos and sabeel.

edward said was an agnostic - born to christian family

ghada karmi is a muslim - muslim

huwaida arraf is an american - christian

diana buttu is a muslim - doesn't say

noura erakat is a muslim - doesn't say

nadia hijab is a muslim - muslim

rafeef zaida is a muslim - doesn't say but she did mention that she was not muslim.


All details taken from their pages on wikipedia, so it looks like you are caught out lying again.

ok.

Did say just that you don't want to read that. the American was born into the muslim faith and Edward Said was a declared agnostic.

 

[Phoenall]

I may have stated that the Israelis are utilizing Nazi tactics. So have some prominent Jews. Is Mr. Meyer, a Holocaust survivor, disgusting to you too?:

"One of the last remaining Auschwitz survivors has launched a blistering attack on Israel over its occupation of Palestine as he began a lecture tour of Scotland. Speaking as his tour got under way, Dr Meyer said there were parallels between the treatment of Jews by Germans in the Second World War and the current treatment of Palestinians by Israelis.

He said: "The Israelis tried to dehumanise the Palestinians, just like the Nazis tried to dehumanise me. Nobody should dehumanise any other and those who try to dehumanise another are not human.

"It may be that Israel is not the most cruel country in the world ... but one thing I know for sure is that Israel is the world champion in pretending to be civilised and cultured."

Auschwitz survivor: 'Israel acts like Nazis'

Has anyone seen this poster on any other forums here comparing her fellow Muslims to the Nazis even though her fellow Muslims are busy murdering people in the name of their religion? It is pathetic how all those NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites start comparing the Israeli Jews to the Nazis when they really should be comparing the Muslims to Nazis. In fact, Hitler thought he could get away with all his killings of those he felt undesirable because the world was quiet when the Muslim Turks killed over a million Armenians plus Assyrians and Greeks at the beginning of the 20th Century.

Firstly, I am Roman Catholic and have received all the sacraments except one, thank goodness.

These are not neo-nazi sites at all, they are normal non-American news/media sites. Even Israeli sites include the same information that perhaps does not get on the U.S. airwaves. This is an op-ed that condemns the fact that so many Europeans see Israel as a Nazi State, but the fact is, many people believe this about the behavior of the Israelis.

Op-Ed: Two Hundred Million Europeans See Israel as Nazi State

Two Hundred Million Europeans See Israel as Nazi State - Op-Eds - Israel National News

Then you will be able to recite the Beattitudes without looking them up on the internet and chant the Decamoran .

 

[Phoenall]

Firstly, I am Roman Catholic and have received all the sacraments except one, thank goodness.

These are not neo-nazi sites at all, they are normal non-American news/media sites. Even Israeli sites include the same information that perhaps does not get on the U.S. airwaves. This is an op-ed that condemns the fact that so many Europeans see Israel as a Nazi State, but the fact is, many people believe this about the behavior of the Israelis.

Op-Ed: Two Hundred Million Europeans See Israel as Nazi State

Two Hundred Million Europeans See Israel as Nazi State - Op-Eds - Israel National News

You don't say? And I am Golden Feather of the Navajo Nation. On the Internet we can be whatever we want to be. Say, did you ever read the article entitled East Meets West where the reporter stationed in Berlin said that the Palestinians and the NeoNazi were protesting together in that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing? Yessiree, Europe is certain anti-Semitic; and with all those Muslims flooding in, it is certainly more so.

And, you think Europe becoming more anti-semitic is a good thing for Israel? I don't get it, whose side are you on.

Yes because the more prevalent decent people of Europe see how the muslims side with NEONAZIS and hatch plots with them to violently attack the Jews. This is why the BDS movement is failing in Europe as many people see it as a NEONAZI racial attack.

Now back to you being a Catholic, can you tell me the stations of the cross and what is represented in the icon of Jesus ?

 

[Phoenall]

And, you think Europe becoming more anti-semitic is a good thing for Israel? I don't get it, whose side are you on.

Of course not, but Europe has always been anti-Semitic (why do you think during World War II many of the Europeans were happy to side with the Nazis?), but with your fellow Muslims flooding in, they have become even more anti-Semitic. You can do a little research on this, can't you? Actually I feel sorry for the Europeans regardless of their being so anti-Semitic. Their countries are going down the drain with so many Muslims, legal and illegal, leaving their own Muslim countries to settle there. Imagine have no-go areas where the Police and Fire Departments are afraid to enter.

Outside of Italy, which Europeans sided with the Nazis? From what I recall nearly every other European country went to war against the Nazis, Russia included. Where did you learn this nonsense?

The British Royal Family sided with Hitler and it nearly destroyed them. But you had Austria, Balkans, Hungary, Russia initially, Italy, Norway, Sweden and Finland all friendly with Germany. The Vichy government of France was also one of the axis nations .

You want to know about Europe why don't you ask a European ?

 

[Phoenall]

Outside of Italy, which Europeans sided with the Nazis? From what I recall nearly every other European country went to war against the Nazis, Russia included. Where did you learn this nonsense?

The reference was to collaboration with the Nazis, in dealing with the Jews of Europe, and primarily once they were conquered and occupied, rather than whether or not they originally fought against the Nazis, before being conquered or assimilated or allied...

Some macro-level information on this European collaboration can be found in the usual and obligatory Wiki article...

Collaboration with the Axis Powers during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of European countries collaborating with the Nazis to round-up, isolate or deport Jews, or transport them to border hand-off control points, on their way to the extermination camps...

Estonia
France
Germany
Greece
Italy
Latvia
Monaco
Netherlands (Holland)
Norway
Poland
Ukraine
British Channel Islands

Our colleague is quite correct in observing that the Axis Powers in Europe (Germany, Italy) and a large number of Nazi -conquered and occupied countries, collaborated extensively with the Nazis, to deal with the Jews harshly.

Occupied countries are not sovereign. More Polish Christians were murdered by the Nazis than Jews, for example. More countries in Europe fought against the Nazis than fought with the Nazis.

Clutching at straws again, can I see another epic fail on your part with another of your ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA fantasies.

Now take your facts and render them down to per capita figures and you see how more Jews were murdered in Poland by the Polish than by the Germans. The Polish Christians were minimal considering the numbers living in the country at the time. Of the Jewish population 90% perished, now imagine if 90% of the Christians had perished ?

 

[Kondor3]

Liars and charlatans, all.

 

[RoccoR]

Phoenall; montelatici; Sally; et al,

Remember that the same writer, an Italian journalist, Giulio Meotti also wrote:

• Time for a Nuremberg Trial for Hamas and the Pipers of Death

Has anyone seen this poster on any other forums here comparing her fellow Muslims to the Nazis even though her fellow Muslims are busy murdering people in the name of their religion? It is pathetic how all those NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites start comparing the Israeli Jews to the Nazis when they really should be comparing the Muslims to Nazis. In fact, Hitler thought he could get away with all his killings of those he felt undesirable because the world was quiet when the Muslim Turks killed over a million Armenians plus Assyrians and Greeks at the beginning of the 20th Century.

Firstly, I am Roman Catholic and have received all the sacraments except one, thank goodness.

These are not neo-nazi sites at all, they are normal non-American news/media sites. Even Israeli sites include the same information that perhaps does not get on the U.S. airwaves. This is an op-ed that condemns the fact that so many Europeans see Israel as a Nazi State, but the fact is, many people believe this about the behavior of the Israelis.

Op-Ed: Two Hundred Million Europeans See Israel as Nazi State

Two Hundred Million Europeans See Israel as Nazi State - Op-Eds - Israel National News

Then you will be able to recite the Beattitudes without looking them up on the internet and chant the Decamoran .

(COMMENT)

The issue is perception.

There is no question that the reputation of Israel has been damaged. The current leadership of Israel doesn't have a clear understanding of the intangible (but very considerable) value of the reputation of the State of Israel or the Jewish State. And the current leadership of Israel pays little attention to the maintenance of that reputation --- or --- the impact that certain political decisions have on the image of the State of Israel.

There is absolutely nothing that can be done about that. It is a condition that the Israeli People have to resolve domestically. All we can tell them is that they do not always send the right message through their action and deeds.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[MrMax]

I will not Bow!

That's for kissing carpets.

 

[Phoenall]

Again, more countries in Europe fought against the Axis Powers than joined them. Once defeated and occupied, the anti-semites within the society held sway, how can you not understand this. Italy which was not occupied and they could refuse Nazi orders protected Jews. I suspect most Europeans would have done the same if they had not been occupied:

""The Italians are extremely lax in their treatment of Jews. They protect Italian Jews both in Tunis and in occupied France and won't permit their being drafted for work or compelled to wear the Star of David."


Goebbels complains of Italians' treatment of Jews Dec 13, 1942.

"Mussolini never had the stomach—or the conviction—for the extremes of Goebbels, Goering, and Hitler. And certainly the majority of the Italian people never subscribed to the growing anti-Semitic rhetoric of the regime. In fact, the Italians refused to deport Jews from Italy-or from Italian-occupied Croatia or France-to Auschwitz."

Goebbels complains of Italians' treatment of Jews ? History.com This Day in History ? 12/13/1942

Get it right most countries in western Europe were over run by the German war machine and surrendered. leaving Great Britain to pick up the pieces and organise the resistance in many western European nations. Many Poles escaped to Britain and organised Polish battalions and air arms of their own. It was only when America was forced into the war by the attack on pearl Harbour that we stood a chance of beating the axis powers.

By far the greatest number of Jews murdered were by the Islamic SS brigades under the control of the grand mufti, who became camp guards because they were abject cowards.

 

[Phoenall]

There are bad people in every society. But, what does what the Turks did have to do with the Palestinians?

ISLAM of course

 

[Phoenall]

Again, more countries in Europe fought against the Axis Powers than joined them...

Again, nobody is disputing that.


Again, nobody is disputing that.

You and your opposites on this question merely differ pertaining to scope and scale.


Again, nobody is disputing that.

...I suspect most Europeans would have done the same if they had not been occupied:...

2,000 years of European pogroms, persecutions, expulsions and massacres - virtually all of it long before the advent of Fascism, suggest a different conclusion.

I don't know what the 2.000 years of pograms have to do with my hypothesis that Nazi occupied countries would have behaved like Italy and Italians had they been free to do so.

Because JEW HATRED in Europe was instutionalised and widespread among the population. That is why the Germans had very little problems in getting the Jews rounded up and deported with the help of the occupied inhabitants of the defeated countries. Even after WW2 and the knowledge of the death camps Great Britain was still engaging in ANTI SEMITISM and JEW HATRED and caused the deaths of thousands of Jews fleeing Europe to the land they had been promised. Right up until 1947 the British stopped Jews from entering Palestine while allowing arab muslims to flood the area.