I watched the 2nd GOP debate in its entirety...

[David_42]

The debate was a literal clown show to me.

 

[Missourian]

The debate was a literal clown show to me.

Psychology - Projection is a form of defense in which unwanted feelings are displaced onto another person or persons, where they then appear as a threat from the external world. A common form of projection occurs when an individual, threatened by feelings that he or she is a clown, accuses others of clown-like behavior.

 

[Statistikhengst]

First, the selection of the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, CA, was a shrewd, intelligent decision. This is the first time ever that we have seen a presidential debate against the backdrop of a real "Air Force One"

I take it you did not see the 2011 Republican debate in the exact same location.

No, I did not. I didn't catch all of them back then. Thanks for the correction.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Nice thought out summary, Stat. I disagree with some of your analysis but agree with about 60 percent of your content. Out of the fifteen, there are about six that have a shot. Cruz, fiorina, bush, carson, trump, rubio. Im not impressed with kasich at all. I can sense a great deal of flaky, squirrely crap from him. I would leave bush out also simply because the bush' and clinton' need to cover the lid and never come back out.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

As for the moderation, I thought tapper did an excellent job. Better than the fox debate.

 

[warf]

Christy lied about social security.

Huckabee lied about his tax plan.

Most of them lied about Planned Parenthood.

Hell of a crowd to be so moralizing.

The most sensible and knowledgeable were Kasich and Pataki. Neither has a chance because they can't inflame the Know Nothings.

 

[Arizona Willie]

How did you do it?

I tried but kept throwing up and had to give up after about an hour and a quarter or so.

My stomach just wouldn't take any more.

As for the PP " videos " they have been PROVEN to have been doctored. Every one. And the scene Carly desribed DOES NOT EVEN EXIST IN THOSE VIDEOS. NOTHING BUT A FUCKING LIE.


===============

...and would like to offer some thoughts. Some of these thoughts may anger some of my friends on the left. And it's just my opinion, but...

First, the selection of the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, CA, was a shrewd, intelligent decision. This is the second time* that we have seen a presidential debate against the backdrop of a real "Air Force One" - a stage that sends a powerful message into the heads of those who watched the debate. For a party that is desperate to recapture the White House, getting to debate at the Reagan Library must be something like a dream come true.

Second, it was a very long debate, but since Jake Tapper did such a top-job of moderating and keeping it going and keeping it animated, it did not feel like three hours to me. Part of Tapper's success was that he held GOP candidates very accountable for the things they have said, things that no one can lie about or obfuscate. And he made the format so that any candidate brought into the cross-hairs by another was given time to rebutt. He also went out of his way to let a candidate know if that candididate did not really answer a question. He was tough on all of them, without exception.

Third, although I am not inclined to vote Republican very often and I think that a lot of their proposed policies are bullshit, we saw a number of very smart candidates on the stage, who gave some very interesting, enlightening views and responses. So, for me, it was worth it to watch the debate.

In terms of cutting Trump down to size, I think that the winner of the night, hands down, was Carly Fiorina. With just one line, using Trump's own words, she nailed him, and she nailed him good. That sentence brought her into the big-leagues among the GOP field, no doubt about it. Good for her. Carly was also forceful and very open about many things. And I AGREE with her about the Planned Parenthood videos. What I have seen on 4 videos to-date is horrifying and no human being in the room should want to support that stuff, imo. It needs to stop. Carly also gave the best closing statement of the night. So, Carly had some very, very strong moments and it would not surprise me in the least were she to rise more in GOP polling.

Another winner, in my book was Ohio Gov. John Kasich, who spoke decisively and used his massive experience in government as a reason for people wanting him - instead of running away from his record. I am pretty sure that many moderate Republicans, sensing a possible Jeb! implosion, and seeing that Walker kind of fizzles wherever he goes, may be inclined to give John Kasich a good, hard look. Kasich also gave the most in-depth answers about the Iran Deal of all of the candidates there. More than ever, were a deadlocked GOP convention to happen, a John Kasich could easily emerge as the compromise candidate.

The third big winner of the night, for me, was Ben Carson, whose quiet mannerisms and level-headed responses are bound to make some people pause and think. He has some views I find extreme, but I wager strongly that, were he for some reason to win the GOP nomination and then the White House, he would govern very much from the middle. I don't like that fact that Ben Carson wended his way to "golden-boy" status among Conservatives by openly criticizing our President, Barack Obama, at, of all places, a national prayer breakfast, but that doesn't change the fact that he is a brilliant doctor, Presidential medal of honor recipient and a thoughtful man. I just think he is in the wrong party. Many of his policies are more part of the Conservative Wing of the Democratic Party than of the GOP. Hmmmm....

Rand Paul is obviously on his way out the door. And Trump kicked him in the teeth with Trump's very first sentence, which actually did not set well with the public. This was a better public that I remember for a number of GOP debates in 2011-2012, in terms of behavior. But Paul gave a number of intelligent responses, especially about the war on drugs and on vaccinations and regardless what you may think of him, Paul is very consistent in his devotion to and determination to defend the US Constitution as he sees it, even if doing so puts him at odds with his GOP colleagues. I still think that Rand Paul did the best campaign rollout of all of them and gave by far the best announcement speech, where he outlined his platform and argued his point like a mature adult. For that, I can only respect him. He has no chance at the nomination and I am pretty sure he will drop out immediately following the Kentucky Presidential caucuses, which were called into existence for March 2016, in order to allow him to run for President and for the US Senate at the same time.

Chris Christie lied again about when he became an attorney for the Bush administration, and I wonder to myself, why in the hell would a dude lie on national TV about something that is so easy to fact-check. Chris Christie is long out the door. He just doesn't know it yet. That being said, I hope he stays in the race for a long time.

Marco Rubio tried to be forceful, but Rubio is simply no JFK, and honestly, I think he is way out of his league. Were Rubio to become the GOP nominee would be the equivalent of the Hail Mary Pass of the century: possible, but highly unlikely.

The two big losers of the night, imo, were both Trump and his sidekick, Cruz.

First, Ted Cruz keeps promising things that are logistially impossible. Were he, through a total miracle, to become president, there is no way he can repeal and replace Obamacare on Day 1. It is physically impossible to do. Cruz also speaks a lot of pablum-type bullshit designed to be patriotic and full of pathos. No, the US Embassy in Israel is not going to be in Jerusalem. It is going to stay in Tel Aviv. And when he accuses the current administration of being the largest sponsor of terrorism, forgetting the McCarthyesque nature of his bullshit, it's just mind-boggling that someone would go that far. Ted Cruz appeals to the most base fears and instincts of the hardest of the hard right within the GOP. In a GE, he would lose by 20 points, of this I am quite sure, regardless of the DEM nominee.

And the big loser of the night was Donald Trump, for not being able to retain the dominance he had in the first debate. The one big thing I can credit him for is for having cowed the other 10 over immigration so badly that not even one had enough courage to really come out and say that deporting 12 million illegal immigrants on the spot is a bad idea. This is a moment that the Democrats are going to use to their advantage throughout all of 2016, and rightfully so.

Jeb Bush did not impress me. He aquitted himself now and then, but no matter what he does, he sounds studied and trained by his handlers. The only moment where I thought he really let go was over the Spanish language thing and Trump's derogatory comments about Bush's wife, who is a naturalized US-citizen of Mexican heritage. In that moment, I saw a real human being. But most of the time, I just see a machine. And in a battle between Bush III and Clinton II, most peoples' money is still on Clinton II. And I really wonder if his heart is even in this at all.

The Democrats have also made a mistake, here. They are allowing the GOP too much time to be present in the media with debates. The Democrats should have also planned a debate for September. That was a strategic mistake.

It would not surprise me a bit were Carson to take a small lead in some state polling here and there, probably Michigan or Ohio and I bet that nationally, over the next 21 days, Trump's lead will shrink as Carson's, Fiorina's and Kasich's numbers grow. But that's just my opinion.

Wait and see.

-Stat

*edit

 

[Arizona Willie]

Earlier this morning I had Shared a picture of the World Trade Center on fire with the quote about how his brother had " kept us safe ".

I just went back to grab a copy to post here and it is gone.

Both the picture I shared and the original are not there any more.

That was about a half hour ago.

Republican controlled media is censoring us, folks.

==========

You've got stronger stomach than I do.

Well, somebody's gotta do it.

The most astounding statement of the evening was from Hebby - that his brother kept America safe.

Even more astounding was the applause.

WTH? More than 10K Americans died on his watch.

 

[Arizona Willie]

It was like a bunch of 6th graders having a food fight.

========

The debate was a literal clown show to me.

 

[David_42]

It was like a bunch of 6th graders having a food fight.

========

The debate was a literal clown show to me.

Agreed, pataki and kasich were the two rational ones on the stage..

 

[David_42]

Christy lied about social security.

Huckabee lied about his tax plan.

Most of them lied about Planned Parenthood.

Hell of a crowd to be so moralizing.

The most sensible and knowledgeable were Kasich and Pataki. Neither has a chance because they can't inflame the Know Nothings.

This sums it up.

 

[guno]

How did you do it?

I tried but kept throwing up and had to give up after about an hour and a quarter or so.

My stomach just wouldn't take any more.

As for the PP " videos " they have been PROVEN to have been doctored. Every one. And the scene Carly desribed DOES NOT EVEN EXIST IN THOSE VIDEOS. NOTHING BUT A FUCKING LIE.


===============

...and would like to offer some thoughts. Some of these thoughts may anger some of my friends on the left. And it's just my opinion, but...

First, the selection of the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, CA, was a shrewd, intelligent decision. This is the second time* that we have seen a presidential debate against the backdrop of a real "Air Force One" - a stage that sends a powerful message into the heads of those who watched the debate. For a party that is desperate to recapture the White House, getting to debate at the Reagan Library must be something like a dream come true.

Second, it was a very long debate, but since Jake Tapper did such a top-job of moderating and keeping it going and keeping it animated, it did not feel like three hours to me. Part of Tapper's success was that he held GOP candidates very accountable for the things they have said, things that no one can lie about or obfuscate. And he made the format so that any candidate brought into the cross-hairs by another was given time to rebutt. He also went out of his way to let a candidate know if that candididate did not really answer a question. He was tough on all of them, without exception.

Third, although I am not inclined to vote Republican very often and I think that a lot of their proposed policies are bullshit, we saw a number of very smart candidates on the stage, who gave some very interesting, enlightening views and responses. So, for me, it was worth it to watch the debate.

In terms of cutting Trump down to size, I think that the winner of the night, hands down, was Carly Fiorina. With just one line, using Trump's own words, she nailed him, and she nailed him good. That sentence brought her into the big-leagues among the GOP field, no doubt about it. Good for her. Carly was also forceful and very open about many things. And I AGREE with her about the Planned Parenthood videos. What I have seen on 4 videos to-date is horrifying and no human being in the room should want to support that stuff, imo. It needs to stop. Carly also gave the best closing statement of the night. So, Carly had some very, very strong moments and it would not surprise me in the least were she to rise more in GOP polling.

Another winner, in my book was Ohio Gov. John Kasich, who spoke decisively and used his massive experience in government as a reason for people wanting him - instead of running away from his record. I am pretty sure that many moderate Republicans, sensing a possible Jeb! implosion, and seeing that Walker kind of fizzles wherever he goes, may be inclined to give John Kasich a good, hard look. Kasich also gave the most in-depth answers about the Iran Deal of all of the candidates there. More than ever, were a deadlocked GOP convention to happen, a John Kasich could easily emerge as the compromise candidate.

The third big winner of the night, for me, was Ben Carson, whose quiet mannerisms and level-headed responses are bound to make some people pause and think. He has some views I find extreme, but I wager strongly that, were he for some reason to win the GOP nomination and then the White House, he would govern very much from the middle. I don't like that fact that Ben Carson wended his way to "golden-boy" status among Conservatives by openly criticizing our President, Barack Obama, at, of all places, a national prayer breakfast, but that doesn't change the fact that he is a brilliant doctor, Presidential medal of honor recipient and a thoughtful man. I just think he is in the wrong party. Many of his policies are more part of the Conservative Wing of the Democratic Party than of the GOP. Hmmmm....

Rand Paul is obviously on his way out the door. And Trump kicked him in the teeth with Trump's very first sentence, which actually did not set well with the public. This was a better public that I remember for a number of GOP debates in 2011-2012, in terms of behavior. But Paul gave a number of intelligent responses, especially about the war on drugs and on vaccinations and regardless what you may think of him, Paul is very consistent in his devotion to and determination to defend the US Constitution as he sees it, even if doing so puts him at odds with his GOP colleagues. I still think that Rand Paul did the best campaign rollout of all of them and gave by far the best announcement speech, where he outlined his platform and argued his point like a mature adult. For that, I can only respect him. He has no chance at the nomination and I am pretty sure he will drop out immediately following the Kentucky Presidential caucuses, which were called into existence for March 2016, in order to allow him to run for President and for the US Senate at the same time.

Chris Christie lied again about when he became an attorney for the Bush administration, and I wonder to myself, why in the hell would a dude lie on national TV about something that is so easy to fact-check. Chris Christie is long out the door. He just doesn't know it yet. That being said, I hope he stays in the race for a long time.

Marco Rubio tried to be forceful, but Rubio is simply no JFK, and honestly, I think he is way out of his league. Were Rubio to become the GOP nominee would be the equivalent of the Hail Mary Pass of the century: possible, but highly unlikely.

The two big losers of the night, imo, were both Trump and his sidekick, Cruz.

First, Ted Cruz keeps promising things that are logistially impossible. Were he, through a total miracle, to become president, there is no way he can repeal and replace Obamacare on Day 1. It is physically impossible to do. Cruz also speaks a lot of pablum-type bullshit designed to be patriotic and full of pathos. No, the US Embassy in Israel is not going to be in Jerusalem. It is going to stay in Tel Aviv. And when he accuses the current administration of being the largest sponsor of terrorism, forgetting the McCarthyesque nature of his bullshit, it's just mind-boggling that someone would go that far. Ted Cruz appeals to the most base fears and instincts of the hardest of the hard right within the GOP. In a GE, he would lose by 20 points, of this I am quite sure, regardless of the DEM nominee.

And the big loser of the night was Donald Trump, for not being able to retain the dominance he had in the first debate. The one big thing I can credit him for is for having cowed the other 10 over immigration so badly that not even one had enough courage to really come out and say that deporting 12 million illegal immigrants on the spot is a bad idea. This is a moment that the Democrats are going to use to their advantage throughout all of 2016, and rightfully so.

Jeb Bush did not impress me. He aquitted himself now and then, but no matter what he does, he sounds studied and trained by his handlers. The only moment where I thought he really let go was over the Spanish language thing and Trump's derogatory comments about Bush's wife, who is a naturalized US-citizen of Mexican heritage. In that moment, I saw a real human being. But most of the time, I just see a machine. And in a battle between Bush III and Clinton II, most peoples' money is still on Clinton II. And I really wonder if his heart is even in this at all.

The Democrats have also made a mistake, here. They are allowing the GOP too much time to be present in the media with debates. The Democrats should have also planned a debate for September. That was a strategic mistake.

It would not surprise me a bit were Carson to take a small lead in some state polling here and there, probably Michigan or Ohio and I bet that nationally, over the next 21 days, Trump's lead will shrink as Carson's, Fiorina's and Kasich's numbers grow. But that's just my opinion.

Wait and see.

-Stat

*edit

It was meant to whip you the Low IQ rubes in flyover land

 

[Arizona Willie]

I propose a FAIR TAX.

If the 1%'ers get 80% of the income they should pay 80% of the taxes.

Sounds fair to me.

The total tax needed to run the country should be calculated and divided among the income groups according to the percentage of the income they receive.

A group gets 80% of the income pays 80% of the taxes.
A group that gets 10% of the income pays 10% of the taxes.

Tax rates for each income level calibrated to bring in that percentage of the funding needs of the country.

WHAT COULD BE MORE FAIR THAN THAT?

 

[charwin95]

I predict a drop in Trump ratings, he came off as a uninformed asshole last night.

I have the same prediction.

 

[Arizona Willie]

He kept making a face like someone was shoving something up his ass.

========

I predict a drop in Trump ratings, he came off as a uninformed asshole last night.

I have the same prediction.

 

[Zander]

Excellent and thoughtful OP Stat.

Here are my 2 cents.....

Trump -I felt like he managed to hold his own. They were all gunning for him hard including the moderators, and he took it in stride with a smile on his face. He made a few mistakes, but he remains the man to beat. He doesn't pretend to be a foreign policy expert - and he was candid about that. Voters will give him the benefit of the doubt that they would not give other candidates because he has as tons of personal charisma and of course, name recognition. He remains the man to beat.

Carly - She's a very good speaker, smart, and very sharp witted. She will climb the polls. She handled the "loaded" question about Trump in the beginning very well- "that's up to the voters to decide". She also had the zinger of the night against Trump as the OP pointed out. BUT to me it seems like she has a chip on her shoulder. She came across as kind of an angry bitch! I think she is facing an uphill battle that she will eventually lose. Another possible VP?

Walker - He has a great story to tell, but he made nary an impression in this debate. He needs to step up his game or he'll be bouncing soon..

Kasich- I like him. He's the kind of guy that won't make a lot of mistakes. He is a moderate but I think he'd get a great deal done....and.... He'd win OHIO!!

Cruz- he didn't lose any ground or gain any. I liked his answer about Supreme Court Justices. He is very intelligent.

Carson- He's a total gentleman. He is an excellent candidate with a very "presidential" demeanor, but I just can't get excited by him. I'd need to see more of his policies. Time will tell. Loved when he said that Trump was "An OK Doctor".

Rubio - He was sharp on Foreign policy, but he's too much of a neo-conservative hawk. We are a war weary nation, he doesn't seem to understand that. He is a very good speaker, but he seems too young to me. VP?

-------people that should drop out now! ------

Rand- I like his policies, but he is a horrible candidate. Really a shame too, since I agree with him on almost everything!

Fat boy- Give it up Chris. He should be announcing he's out soon.

Bush- No chance whatsoever for Jeb. He's a nice guy, but his name is a yoke around his neck. No more Clinton, no more Bush.

Hucklebery- ..a non entity in every way. Why is he there again? Please drop out soon.

Everyone at the early debate - Go away!

 

[browsing deer]

Carly - She's a very good speaker, smart, and very sharp witted. She will climb the polls. She handled the "loaded" question about Trump in the beginning very well- "that's up to the voters to decide". She also had the zinger of the night against Trump as the OP pointed out. BUT to me it seems like she has a chip on her shoulder. She came across as kind of an angry bitch!

I like the attitude she shows, but I can see where you don't. I see it as a positive. She has the problem women in politics have of this attitude. They have to be combative in order to be taken seriously. Being laid back like Carson was she will be accused of being a shrinking violet.

She is smart and quick witted. She has climbing from a lower position than trump and is going up faster.

 

[browsing deer]

Bush- No chance whatsoever for Jeb. He's a nice guy, but his name is a yoke around his neck. No more Clinton, no more Bush.

That is my main complaint against him. No more relatives. And that goes for clinton too

 

[amrchaos]

Carly - She's a very good speaker, smart, and very sharp witted. She will climb the polls. She handled the "loaded" question about Trump in the beginning very well- "that's up to the voters to decide". She also had the zinger of the night against Trump as the OP pointed out. BUT to me it seems like she has a chip on her shoulder. She came across as kind of an angry bitch!

I like the attitude she shows, but I can see where you don't. I see it as a positive. She has the problem women in politics have of this attitude. They have to be combative in order to be taken seriously. Being laid back like Carson was she will be accused of being a shrinking violet.

She is smart and quick witted. She has climbing from a lower position than trump and is going up faster.

I think you just described the two personalities that works best for any politician.

Either you are combative, or laid back.

 

[amrchaos]

Bush- No chance whatsoever for Jeb. He's a nice guy, but his name is a yoke around his neck. No more Clinton, no more Bush.

That is my main complaint against him. No more relatives. And that goes for clinton too

Wait wait wait!!

you guys had two Bushes, Now the Dems want two Clintons! Until the Dems get their 2nd Clinton, Republicans should not complain about dynasties in the White house.