Zone1 I need to clarify my views on the Novus Ordo sect v the Sedevacantist (both claim to be Catholic)

[Donald H]

How many were convicted and sent to prison? How many should have been sent to prison?

I have no idea. I would guess that most who should have been tried, convicted, and sent to prison, would be a shocking number.

The catholic church has created an unnatural situation for men who become priests in my opinion. Celibacy doesn't work. I realize that this is opening a whole new can of worms, but I see no progress being made without it. The church simply can't justify the results by sacrificing the lives and minds of the children.

My wife's brother was sexually abused by the Catholic church when he served as an alter boy. He never did tell his parents, but he needed to tell somebody so he told his sister.

 

[ding]

I have no idea. I would guess that most who should have been tried, convicted, and sent to prison, would be a shocking number.

Sounds like a good reason why you should read the report.

 

[ding]

The catholic church has created an unnatural situation for men who become priests in my opinion. Celibacy doesn't work. I realize that this is opening a whole new can of worms, but I see no progress being made without it. The church simply can't justify the results by sacrificing the lives and minds of the children.

Again... if you read the report you might have a different opinion.

 

[Donald H]

I haven't made any excuses for anyone. The purpose for you to read the report is so that you will have a factual understanding of the scandal and we can have an intelligent conversation rather than a conversation based on innuendo and rhetoric.

You have my terms that are not negotiable. If you want me to have a better understanding of something then you need to tell me what you think I don't understand about the bottom line fact that it continues. All I can offer is my understanding that the church has created a situation with men who become priests. Have a nice day!

 

[ding]

My wife's brother was sexually abused by the Catholic church when he served as an alter boy. He never did tell his parents, but he needed to tell somebody so he told his sister.

I'm sorry to hear that. There's a chart in the report detailing the different degrees. I wonder where he would fall on that chart. There's also a chart showing how many times a priest had inappropriate relationships. I wonder where his priest would fall on that chart. There's also a chart showing the ages of the encounters, I wonder where he would fall on that. There's also a chart on how many times inappropriate behaviors occurred with the same parties and the age ranges for that. I wonder where he would fall on that. There's also a chart showing how many different individuals the same priest had inappropriate contact with. I wonder where his priest would fall on that.

If you had a better sense of the numbers you wouldn't make statements you couldn't back up because you would have the data to back up the statements you made. As it stands right now your understanding of the situation isn't supported by the numbers. You have vastly oversimplified the situation. The data shows that it is considerably more complex than that.

 

[ding]

You have my terms that are not negotiable. If you want me to have a better understanding of something then you need to tell me what you think I don't understand about the bottom line fact that it continues. All I can offer is my understanding that the church has created a situation with men who become priests. Have a nice day!

I'm not going to argue with someone who makes no attempt to be informed prior to debate. That would just be a waste of my time. If you want to debate what the data means I'm happy to do so, but you'll at least have to understand what data exists and have at least looked at it because many of your concerns might be resolved by that.

 

[Donald H]

I'm sorry to hear that. There's a chart in the report detailing the different degrees. I wonder where he would fall on that chart. There's also a chart showing how many times a priest had inappropriate relationships. I wonder where his priest would fall on that chart. There's also a chart showing the ages of the encounters, I wonder where he would fall on that. There's also a chart on how many times inappropriate behaviors occurred with the same parties and the age ranges for that. I wonder where he would fall on that. There's also a chart showing how many different individuals the same priest had inappropriate contact with. I wonder where his priest would fall on that.

If you had a better sense of the numbers you wouldn't make statements you couldn't back up because you would have the data to back up the statements you made. As it stands right now your understanding of the situation isn't supported by the numbers. You have vastly oversimplified the situation. The data shows that it is considerably more complex than that.

None of the charts you mentioned would have any bearing on the fact that he was harmed as a child. They would perhaps have a bearing on the severity of the punishment. Thank you for considering my request for an explanation at least.

Nothing has changed on the church stopping the pedophilia and nothing has changed on my refusal to read about all the charts that make excuses.

 

[Donald H]

Again... if you read the report you might have a different opinion.

You're welcome to tell me how my opinion can be changed regarding pedophile priests.

If you can do it in a paragraph of your own words, I'll read it with an open mind as long as you don't try to justify it or find excuses for it.

 

[notmyfault2020]

I have no idea. I would guess that most who should have been tried, convicted, and sent to prison, would be a shocking number.

The catholic church has created an unnatural situation for men who become priests in my opinion. Celibacy doesn't work.

What a HUGE LIE!

I've been celibate for a LONG time and it has been great for me. Jesus said to become like children. You are born a virgin and yet liberals think that staying a virgin is abnormal.

What insanity!

People need to repent of their sins, their lying, their promoting of evil... and need i remind you that most men who molest children are MARRIED?

sheez

And also, what you refer to as 'the Catholic Church" (the Vatican) is NOT the Catholic Church

so there's that...

 

[Donald H]

What a HUGE LIE!

I've been celibate for a LONG time and it has been great for me. Jesus said to become like children. You are born a virgin and yet liberals think that staying a virgin is abnormal.

It 'is' abnormal. but with some qualifications. If you're suggesting that to be like children means to be celibate then you need to check that out with Ding.

What insanity!

People need to repent of their sins, their lying, their promoting of evil... and need i remind you that most men who molest children are MARRIED?

Marriages of convenience?

sheez

And also, what you refer to as 'the Catholic Church" (the Vatican) is NOT the Catholic Church

so there's that...

Either or.

 

[notmyfault2020]

another no answer response

oh well... Mama said there'd be days like this

 

[ding]

None of the charts you mentioned would have any bearing on the fact that he was harmed as a child. They would perhaps have a bearing on the severity of the punishment. Thank you for considering my request for an explanation at least.

Nothing has changed on the church stopping the pedophilia and nothing has changed on my refusal to read about all the charts that make excuses.

Again... you should read the report to discover your error in using broad brush strokes.

 

[ding]

You're welcome to tell me how my opinion can be changed regarding pedophile priests.

If you can do it in a paragraph of your own words, I'll read it with an open mind as long as you don't try to justify it or find excuses for it.

Not until you have studied the data. Then that answer will be apparent to you and you won't have wasted my time.

 

[notmyfault2020]

If you don't agree that your link is intended to make excuses for the priests and the popes, then you're going to have to explain in your own words what it's purpose is.

Or just continue to harp on about me not reading it? My terms are not negotiable, due to me reading enough of it to tell me that it's intent was to justify the Catholic churches behaviour. regarding it not stopping priest pedophilia.

What about your sins?

Why don't we talk about them?

Yes, that seems like a good idea, since you seem to be so focused on OTHERS' sins..

But maybe only Catholics should be held accountable for their sins (or those who profess to be such)?

Everyone else, all Protestants and atheists are exempt, eh?

 

[notmyfault2020]

I have no idea. I would guess that most who should have been tried, convicted, and sent to prison, would be a shocking number.

The catholic church has created an unnatural situation for men who become priests in my opinion. Celibacy doesn't work. I realize that this is opening a whole new can of worms, but I see no progress being made without it. The church simply can't justify the results by sacrificing the lives and minds of the children.

My wife's brother was sexually abused by the Catholic church when he served as an alter boy. He never did tell his parents, but he needed to tell somebody so he told his sister.

You don't get it. The Vatican is NOT the Catholic Church already! I've said it 100 times here at the forums but people keep thinking that the Vatican and all other supposedly Catholic "churches" (since 1958) are indeed Catholic. No, they are NOT. The Catholic Church was forced into exile in 1958. The Vatican was taken from them. It belongs to those who do not believe in Catholicism, do not believe in Jesus Christ.

THAT is why there is pedophilia in (what people think is) the Church. Obviously, no true Christian molests children!

People need to start getting exile narrative this through their apparently thick skulls.

You shall know the truth and Truth will set you free.

 

[Donald H]

THAT is why there is pedophilia in (what people think is) the Church. Obviously, no true Christian molests children!

That just raises the question for me, whether there is such a thing as a true Christian?

 

[notmyfault2020]

That just raises the question for me, whether there is such a thing as a true Christian?

oh brother. You can't resist the temptation to put Christians down, can you?

I think it's that sick human nature thing again: Everyone has a need to feel superior to others, so they criticize even those who are doing good in the world...

like I have said before:

It doesn't work... In fact, it works toward the very opposite result: People lose respect for you

 

[Donald H]

But maybe only Catholics should be held accountable for their sins (or those who profess to be such)?

Everyone else, all Protestants and atheists are exempt, eh?

Catholics can do as they please with their sins.

For me, no sins come to mind at the moment. I'm living my life and doing what I consider to be moral and just. If I wasn't then I would change my behaviour.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Catholics can do as they please with their sins.

For me, no sins come to mind at the moment. I'm living my life and doing what I consider to be moral and just. If I wasn't then I would change my behaviour.

"He who says he is without sin is a liar and the truth is not in him"

Douay Rheims:

100%	"He who saith that he knoweth him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." [1 John 2:4]

 

[Donald H]

"He who says he is without sin is a liar and the truth is not in him"

Douay Rheims:

100%	"He who saith that he knoweth him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." [1 John 2:4]

Nearly everything you say now is foul mannered and mean spirited.