I met President Bush Sunday!

[RetiredGySgt]

Guess a bunch of lying swiftboaters is no problem but telling the truth about Baby Bush's record... that aggravates them. Thing is, I don't even care that Bush used his daddy's connections to stay out of Vietnam. I'm sure my father would have done that for us if we were of that age and he had that power. It's the fact that the same people who get cranky about this and don't want to acknowledge it, are the first ones to call someone else's service into question for disagreeing with the chickenhawks.

(just watch them lose their little minds when the name Murtha is mentioned).

More lies from the left. Bush served Honorably as FIGHTER pilot in the US Air National Guard. He flew the most dangerous aircraft the Air force flew. He flew it more hours then required by his contract to include the part about getting out early. He volunteered for duty in Vietnam.

Now provide some of that evidence that Bush was passed over ANYONE to get in that air guard pilot slot. Give us just one name of one person that got passed over for Bush.

Then remind us how you had no problem with a REAL draft Dodger being President, voted for him twice and have stated he was a good President. A man that had to be PARDONED by President Carter, at least that is the claim, and I haven't seen any of you prove it wrong yet.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

YOu said that if you had wanted to, you could have written your own. I assume that is the shoddy system in the Corps. It ain't that way in the Navy... and I laid out for you the vetting THAT I WAS AWARE of for a medal nowhere near as important as Kerry's. And even today, the US Navy stands completely behind every one of Kerry's medals. And I don't know what Marine Corps YOU served in, but the Marines that I have known and went to school with and served with have all understood that Silver Stars were pretty big fuckin' deals... and NONE of them would ever besmirch another veteran's heroism on the battlefield for political gain...but then, none of them were shameless partisan hacks like you.

Reread the post I said "if I could have" I wonder why it is you have no trouble parsing Bush but can not read plain English?

And he wrote his own awards as the BOAT COMMANDER. The supposed investigation concerned asking a couple of HIS crew if the action took place. His Commander had no independent verification NOR did some third party write the citations.

 

[Alpha1]

Guess a bunch of lying swiftboaters is no problem but telling the truth about Baby Bush's record... that aggravates them. Thing is, I don't even care that Bush used his daddy's connections to stay out of Vietnam. I'm sure my father would have done that for us if we were of that age and he had that power. It's the fact that the same people who get cranky about this and don't want to acknowledge it, are the first ones to call someone else's service into question for disagreeing with the chickenhawks.

(just watch them lose their little minds when the name Murtha is mentioned).

For a lawyer, you throw around accusations without any proof pretty freely...
What is Baby Bush's record...tell us...

Daddy helped him get into the NG? Prove that...or at lease give us something that would warrant even considering the charge might be true....

Used Daddys connections to stay out of Vietnam? Prove that...or at lease give us something that would warrant even making the charge or giving it merit....

You think the lack of Bush's NG records proves something.....? All it proves is a lack of records....

I gave you honest to God FACTS about the draft dodger and you dismissed that as crap.....its hard to imagine a lawyer that just casually ignores unquestionable facts about some, and clings to accusations about others, and treats them as facts....with no proof.

Did your parents ever discuss the values of justice or fairness with you or maybe you might have heard the terms mentioned in law school....

 

[CSM]

Did your parents ever discuss the values of justice or fairness with you or maybe you might have heard the terms mentioned in law school....

Heard about, discussed, and dismissed as irrelevant.....

Egad, I love throwing gasoline on fires!

 

[maineman]

Reread the post I said "if I could have" I wonder why it is you have no trouble parsing Bush but can not read plain English?

And he wrote his own awards as the BOAT COMMANDER. The supposed investigation concerned asking a couple of HIS crew if the action took place. His Commander had no independent verification NOR did some third party write the citations.

and you know the extent of the "supposed" investigation....how?

and just to be certain here...you are not only calling Kerry a liar, but members of his crew as well?

boy....for a guy who doesn't like HIS service to our country questioned, you sure know how to dish some shit on your fellow veterans. Why am I not surprised?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

and you know the extent of the "supposed" investigation....how?

and just to be certain here...you are not only calling Kerry a liar, but members of his crew as well?

boy....for a guy who doesn't like HIS service to our country questioned, you sure know how to dish some shit on your fellow veterans. Why am I not surprised?

You see no problem with Kerry writing his own awards? None? And then having his own captive crew be the supposed witnesses to heroics. In the case of one of those heroics all he did is run and shot an unarmed kid in the back that was already wounded.

Some hero.

 

[Alpha1]

and you know the extent of the "supposed" investigation....how?

and just to be certain here...you are not only calling Kerry a liar, but members of his crew as well?

The problem is that this kind of question has an opposite side...

The Kerry campaign featured the photograph in an advertisement released in May titled Lifetime. Swift Vets and POWs for Truth has contacted surviving members of this group to find out how many actually support John Kerry, and discovered that of 19 Swift boat skippers pictured other than Kerry, 12 consider him unfit, 2 are neutral, two have died, and 3 now support Kerry. Four other officers were not present for the photo session; 3 oppose Kerry and one is neutral.

Are we to call all 12 Officers that view Kerry as unfit, liars ?
Why would these men even go public like this...and band together against a fellow SB Officer?(a rhetorical question)



boy....for a guy who doesn't like HIS service to our country questioned, you sure know how to dish some shit on your fellow veterans. Why am I not surprised?

////

 

[maineman]

You see no problem with Kerry writing his own awards? None? And then having his own captive crew be the supposed witnesses to heroics. In the case of one of those heroics all he did is run and shot an unarmed kid in the back that was already wounded.

Some hero.

I have routinely seen officers asked for their comments about awards that are being contemplated for them.

And I see no reason for his crew to lie then... or for them to continue to support him decades later if he weren't genuine.

Like I said, every marine I ever knew respected the Silver Star.

you're pathetic and a disgrace.

 

[Paulie]

I do not depend on the government to give me a darned thing

Not even a false sense of security via the doctrine of pre-emptive war?

 

[rayboyusmc]

alpha, you forgot the other draft dodger: The Dark Lord Cheney.

 

[jillian]

As for us independent types...your right. I do not depend on the government to give me a darned thing....you should try it. It's called personal responsibility. Then again I am sure you like those freebies you non working scum sucking freeloders are used to getting. How's THAT for an assumption!

Really?

Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.

All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance -- now Joe gets it, too.

Joe prepares his morning breakfast; bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and the amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.

Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for the laws to stop industries from polluting our air.

He walks on the government-provided sidewalk to subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.

If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It is noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FDIC (or the NCUA, if he's part of a credit union) because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe also forgets that his in addition to his federally subsidized student loans, he attended a state funded university.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards to go along with the tax-payer funded roads.

He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans.

The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2007/04/a_day_in_the_life_of_joe_repub.php

 

[mattskramer]

I do not depend on the government to give me a darned thing....you should try it. It's called personal responsibility. Then again I am sure you like those freebies you non working scum sucking freeloders are used to getting.

Wow. You are even better than the great Rush Limbaugh. He fell on hard times and accepted unemployment Insurance years ago. I know of a severely mentally retarded and physically handicapped young adult. His parents could not care for him when he was a child. It is highly unlikely that he will never be self-reliant. He gets government assistance. I guess that in your eyes, he is a non working scum sucking freeloader. Yet, he is the nicest men that I have ever met and he certainly is grateful for those government freebies.

 

[Gunny]

BTW ... I met President Clinton twice ... is this where I just dog him out to no end for no other reason than partisan hackery?

Some of you people need to grow the fuck up.

 

[mattskramer]

If I meet Bush while he is president and he offered to shake hands, what should I do? On the one hand, I respect the office. Therefore I should shake hands. On the other hand, I don’t like the guy. My general impression: He is foolish loose cannon, a unilateral reckless cowboy, who shoots first and asks questions later (and the answers better be to his liking). He doesn’t think about the far reaching consequences of his actions or prepared sufficiently for future scenarios. I would not want to shake hands with him.

 

[CSM]

Wow. You are even better than the great Rush Limbaugh. He fell on hard times and accepted unemployment Insurance years ago. I know of a severely mentally retarded and physically handicapped young adult. His parents could not care for him when he was a child. It is highly unlikely that he will never be self-reliant. He gets government assistance. I guess that in your eyes, he is a non working scum sucking freeloader. Yet, he is the nicest men that I have ever met and he certainly is grateful for those government freebies.

You presume that I cannot obtain clean water, a job, medical care and all that stuff on my own. I can and have. It's called "employment" and you perform "work" for which they pay you "money" which can "purchase" various and sundry things like all of the stuff another poster listed. You should try it.

Never been unemployed, pay for my own medical care (except for VA benefits which I earned through "work" and getting blowed up. if they weren't there I would make do).

 

[CSM]

[Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.

You assume that I cannot obtain clean water any other way than throught the government. I can and have under conditions I am sure you would considerbarbaric. At this point I take no medications....but you can bet that if people were killing themselves taking "bad" aspirin they would soon stop buying it. Oh I forgot, Liberals all presume everyone else is stupid.

All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance -- now Joe gets it, too.

Pure horsecrap. Unions do nothing except take care of themselves at workers expense.

Joe prepares his morning breakfast; bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Again, if the damn bacon and eggs were bad, people would stop eating them. I guess liberals are to damned stupid to smell rotten food.Makes you wonder how the human race survived before there was an FDA.

In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and the amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.

If he made his own soap, he would knopw what the heck is in it. Also, if he didn't want to smell like a damn cucumber he could get REAL soap....which works on hair AND skin.

Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for the laws to stop industries from polluting our air.

Yeah, thank god they did that or we would all be dead....

He walks on the government-provided sidewalk to subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Yeesh, if that isn't some liberal socialist crap I dont know what is. I know you didn't write this but what the heck makes you think I want the government to subsidize his ride anyplace? Let him walk if he cant get a job to pay for that parking and transportation.

Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.

Heck, he could have joined the Marines and gotten exactly the same thing without a union. O wait, that means he would have to have a sense or responsibility and a touch of self discipline....concepts that are completely foreign to this mythical Joe.

If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

If he was smart (and so far he appears to be a real dumbass so that rules that possibility out) he would have been saving some money for just such emergencies.

It is noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FDIC (or the NCUA, if he's part of a credit union) because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

Yeah, he could have buried that money in a coffee can in his backyard. Damn them big bankers anyway. Joe gets dumber with every paragraph.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe also forgets that his in addition to his federally subsidized student loans, he attended a state funded university.

You have already established that Joe is a parasite. Again, he could have gotten a job and WORKED for MONEY to pay for his education and house; instead he leeches of society....good guy Joe.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards to go along with the tax-payer funded roads.

Can't afford to drive to work but can drive to the country??? Besides why isn't Joe helping Dad work the old farmstead....oops I mentioned WORK.

He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans.

Wait a minute....where the heck was he driving FROM if he was living there? The bastard has two houses and expects otheres to subsidize them????

The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

Dang, how did those two previous generations ever survive????

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Heaven forbid Joe should take responsibility for the parents that raised him. I bet he even finds those once a month visits to the old homestead quite a burden. of course he has to visti or his folks might cut him out of the will.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

And that is exactly why Joe is like he is....waiting for the govenment to take care of him, feeding off the public trough and couldn't take care of himself if the light in his bathroom burned out. Liberals and unions have convinced him that he is too stupid to take care of himself, nothing is his fault and he is entitled to everything that people who CAN take care of themselves have even though he is unwilling to put forth the effort to obtain those things.

That crap doesn't wash with me. Why? you may well ask. Because I am not responsible for Joe and his life, his father's life or anything else. I am responsible for MY life and my family and I dont need or want the government or any liberal socialist telling me how to go about it. IF I screw up then I am RESPONSIBLE....not you, not the government and not some bleeding heart liberal or union guy who wants to control how I live, think and feel.

 

[CSM]

Not even a false sense of security via the doctrine of pre-emptive war?

Nope...i depend on my guns, ammo and resources to make more.

 

[mattskramer]

You presume that I cannot obtain clean water, a job, medical care and all that stuff on my own. I can and have. It's called "employment" and you perform "work" for which they pay you "money" which can "purchase" various and sundry things like all of the stuff another poster listed. You should try it.

Never been unemployed, pay for my own medical care (except for VA benefits which I earned through "work" and getting blowed up. if they weren't there I would make do).

Well whoopee. Congratulations. Some people are not so fortunate. Some people fall on a bizarre set of practically unforeseeable incidences. Some people are born with handicaps and other difficulties. Some people may need a hand up every once in a great while. Oh how fortunate we are that you are not one of them. All praise the great resourceful and self-reliant CSM.

 

[CSM]

Well whoopee. Congratulations. Some people are not so fortunate. Some people fall on a bizarre set of practically unforeseeable incidences. Some people are born with handicaps and other difficulties. Some people may need a hand up every once in a great while. Oh how fortunate we are that you are not one of them. All praise the great resourceful and self-reliant CSM.

The problem is that you want ME to be responsible for THEM....I refuse to accept that.

I know you prefer dependent, irresponsible, non working ne'er do wells because you NEED vicitms to support your own views. I understand that well. I am not a vicitm and that is why we will NEVER agree on this.

 

[mattskramer]

The problem is that you want ME to be responsible for THEM....I refuse to accept that.

I know you prefer dependent, irresponsible, non working ne'er do wells because you NEED vicitms to support your own views. I understand that well. I am not a vicitm and that is why we will NEVER agree on this.

You are so deluded and incorrect about my views. Let me set you straight about me. I think that people who are successful should help those who are needy. Sometimes it takes a small hand of government, in addition to private charity, to help people to any significant degree. Let me ask you 5 straight questions:

1.) Do you realize that there are many mentally restarted and physically handicapped people in America?

2.) Do you think that all forms of government-run welfare should be removed and suddenly disappear? That would include Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, and Aid to Dependent Children, Unemployment, and a host of other programs.

3.) Do you realize that if such programs were to vanish completely, there would not be enough private charity to support the needy to any significant degree?

4.) Do you think that such people should be left to die in the streets?

5.) If you answered yes to the first two questions and no to the third question, how do you think that such people will be cared for?

It is my wish that everyone be self-reliant. I want there to be as few dependent, irresponsible, non working ne'er do wells as possible. Yet, I understand that there are people who, through no fault of their own, will be dependent if only for a short time. There are also people who will forever be dependent (not so much because they are irresponsible but because they have mental and physical handicaps). There is a need for programs to remain to help such people.

Finally, to address your last comment, I am not a victim either, if that makes any difference. What does being a victim have to do with the discussion about government support for the needy?