I don't believe people should be prosecuted under "Hate Crimes"!

Hate crime laws are necessary.
That is because you can protect yourself from a crime of passion or greed.
You can just avoid getting personally involved with a person who you discover to be unstable or overly narcissistic.

But the difference and problem with a hate crime is that the victim did nothing to cause it and had no way to avoid it.
And a hate crime is MUCH more serious because who would commit a hate crime is a much greater danger not only to others, but all of society. They break down the essential social trust people have that allows society to function at all.
If everyone becomes unsafe due to people who are willing to attack strangers based just on things like their race, religion, appearance, political affiliation, etc., then society faces total collapse.

You can deter a crime of passion or greed with punishments, but it is much harder to deter a hate crime because it is irrational, so you really have to keep them locked up and secure, maybe forever.
Says you? Hahaha hahaha who the fk are you to pass judgment on others? Gawd? Hahaha hahaha delirious
However Progressives control the system and they do pass judgement.

Everyone who believes in a criminal justice system to reduce crime, believes in passing judgement.
And since it usually works, it is a good idea.
The problem is there no way to deter a hate crime committed against strangers.
Hate crime is mumbo jumbo tramp

No it isn't.
When you have impersonal crimes against whole groups of people who are being illegally discriminated against, you need additional protection.
Historical examples include the Holocaust against Jews, the slavery of Blacks, the massacre of Armenians, etc.
Those who commit crimes against whole groups of strangers really are a much greater threat to society than someone who just wants to commit a property crime.
 
Is 1 crime more heinous than another just because it is motivated by "Hate"? I don't think so. Tell the family of a murder victim that their loss is not so bad because it was not motivated by hate. Evidence of hate can be useful as a motive, but should not be a crime in itself. Murder is murder period.
This is where you ignore the impact on society.

There are different degrees of murder. Do you want to get rid of all those and treat them all the same?

He said, murder is murder. Where hate crimes would be classified as 1st degree murder with aggravating factors. It would just be codifying those factors.

Murder is not just a single event of murder when it is a hate crime.
When one person kills one person over greed, jealousy, resentment, etc., there was a reason for it, and everyone else likely is safe since that reason does not apply to them.
But when it is a hare crime, then there is no reason for it, so it can't be avoided, and potentially tens of thousands of other people could also be at risk, through no fault of their own.
Normal murder does not threaten others, while hate crimes do.
What other kind is there?

What other kind of what is there?

If you mean what kinds of murders are there, there are crimes of greed and passion mostly.
And the difference between normal murder and hate crimes is that the target is limited to a motivation you can deter with a normal murder of greed or passion, but impossible to deter with motivated out of an irrational and impersonal hatred of any entire group of strangers.
All based off hate, intent hate, to hurt, demoralize

Not at all.
Most crimes are just a means to get money, not intentionally to harm anyone.
A bank robbery is a traditional crime, but the 9/11 attack was a hate crime.
See the difference?
You can't deter something like the 9/11 attack with penalties because they intended it to be suicidal.
 
Hate crime laws are necessary.
That is because you can protect yourself from a crime of passion or greed.
You can just avoid getting personally involved with a person who you discover to be unstable or overly narcissistic.

But the difference and problem with a hate crime is that the victim did nothing to cause it and had no way to avoid it.
And a hate crime is MUCH more serious because who would commit a hate crime is a much greater danger not only to others, but all of society. They break down the essential social trust people have that allows society to function at all.
If everyone becomes unsafe due to people who are willing to attack strangers based just on things like their race, religion, appearance, political affiliation, etc., then society faces total collapse.

You can deter a crime of passion or greed with punishments, but it is much harder to deter a hate crime because it is irrational, so you really have to keep them locked up and secure, maybe forever.
Says you? Hahaha hahaha who the fk are you to pass judgment on others? Gawd? Hahaha hahaha delirious
However Progressives control the system and they do pass judgement.

Everyone who believes in a criminal justice system to reduce crime, believes in passing judgement.
And since it usually works, it is a good idea.
The problem is there no way to deter a hate crime committed against strangers.
Hate crime is mumbo jumbo tramp

No it isn't.
When you have impersonal crimes against whole groups of people who are being illegally discriminated against, you need additional protection.
Historical examples include the Holocaust against Jews, the slavery of Blacks, the massacre of Armenians, etc.
Those who commit crimes against whole groups of strangers really are a much greater threat to society than someone who just wants to commit a property crime.
Who are you referring to?
 
Hate crime laws are necessary.
That is because you can protect yourself from a crime of passion or greed.
You can just avoid getting personally involved with a person who you discover to be unstable or overly narcissistic.

But the difference and problem with a hate crime is that the victim did nothing to cause it and had no way to avoid it.
And a hate crime is MUCH more serious because who would commit a hate crime is a much greater danger not only to others, but all of society. They break down the essential social trust people have that allows society to function at all.
If everyone becomes unsafe due to people who are willing to attack strangers based just on things like their race, religion, appearance, political affiliation, etc., then society faces total collapse.

You can deter a crime of passion or greed with punishments, but it is much harder to deter a hate crime because it is irrational, so you really have to keep them locked up and secure, maybe forever.
Says you? Hahaha hahaha who the fk are you to pass judgment on others? Gawd? Hahaha hahaha delirious

I was evaluating the risk to strangers, not passing judgement on the individual.
There is risk pumping gas, car jack you bozos ignore. No judgement

Car jackers rarely harm anyone, and just want property that is likely insured anyway.
Hate crimes tend to not be property, and are much more harmful, as well as being unpredictable.
 
Is 1 crime more heinous than another just because it is motivated by "Hate"? I don't think so. Tell the family of a murder victim that their loss is not so bad because it was not motivated by hate. Evidence of hate can be useful as a motive, but should not be a crime in itself. Murder is murder period.
This is where you ignore the impact on society.

There are different degrees of murder. Do you want to get rid of all those and treat them all the same?

He said, murder is murder. Where hate crimes would be classified as 1st degree murder with aggravating factors. It would just be codifying those factors.

Murder is not just a single event of murder when it is a hate crime.
When one person kills one person over greed, jealousy, resentment, etc., there was a reason for it, and everyone else likely is safe since that reason does not apply to them.
But when it is a hare crime, then there is no reason for it, so it can't be avoided, and potentially tens of thousands of other people could also be at risk, through no fault of their own.
Normal murder does not threaten others, while hate crimes do.
What other kind is there?

What other kind of what is there?

If you mean what kinds of murders are there, there are crimes of greed and passion mostly.
And the difference between normal murder and hate crimes is that the target is limited to a motivation you can deter with a normal murder of greed or passion, but impossible to deter with motivated out of an irrational and impersonal hatred of any entire group of strangers.
All based off hate, intent hate, to hurt, demoralize

Not at all.
Most crimes are just a means to get money, not intentionally to harm anyone.
A bank robbery is a traditional crime, but the 9/11 attack was a hate crime.
See the difference?
You can't deter something like the 9/11 attack with penalties because they intended it to be suicidal.
You truly believe that nonsense. Makes you a
Sick human. Taking some thing that doesn’t belong to you is hate. Dignity is taken during a crime you fat fk
 
Hate crime laws are necessary.
That is because you can protect yourself from a crime of passion or greed.
You can just avoid getting personally involved with a person who you discover to be unstable or overly narcissistic.

But the difference and problem with a hate crime is that the victim did nothing to cause it and had no way to avoid it.
And a hate crime is MUCH more serious because who would commit a hate crime is a much greater danger not only to others, but all of society. They break down the essential social trust people have that allows society to function at all.
If everyone becomes unsafe due to people who are willing to attack strangers based just on things like their race, religion, appearance, political affiliation, etc., then society faces total collapse.

You can deter a crime of passion or greed with punishments, but it is much harder to deter a hate crime because it is irrational, so you really have to keep them locked up and secure, maybe forever.
Says you? Hahaha hahaha who the fk are you to pass judgment on others? Gawd? Hahaha hahaha delirious

I was evaluating the risk to strangers, not passing judgement on the individual.
There is risk pumping gas, car jack you bozos ignore. No judgement

Car jackers rarely harm anyone, and just want property that is likely insured anyway.
Hate crimes tend to not be property, and are much more harmful, as well as being unpredictable.
They steal babies and shoot drivers. What a sick fk you are
 
Hate crime laws are necessary.
That is because you can protect yourself from a crime of passion or greed.
You can just avoid getting personally involved with a person who you discover to be unstable or overly narcissistic.

But the difference and problem with a hate crime is that the victim did nothing to cause it and had no way to avoid it.
And a hate crime is MUCH more serious because who would commit a hate crime is a much greater danger not only to others, but all of society. They break down the essential social trust people have that allows society to function at all.
If everyone becomes unsafe due to people who are willing to attack strangers based just on things like their race, religion, appearance, political affiliation, etc., then society faces total collapse.

You can deter a crime of passion or greed with punishments, but it is much harder to deter a hate crime because it is irrational, so you really have to keep them locked up and secure, maybe forever.
Reading your post made me think and consider what you mention. There is a problem with that, though. Hate is hard to prove so the burden of proof has to be lowered. From my own experience of seeing news of a crime being committed, it seems that a person who commits a crime against another person who is different in some way (race, nationality, gender, faith, etc.) is automatically accused of committing the crime because of that difference. It could be that the victim was just at the wrong place, at the wrong time. The perp would have committed the crime no matter who was victimized.

I agree with your conclusion that the burden of proof should be raised if a hate crime penalty is used, because the hate crime penalty would be so much greater. And you don't want hate crime prosecution to be abused by things like coincidence.
For example, the massage parlor shootings likely were not Asian motivated even though so many victims were Asian.
But a hate crime greater penalty would still seem warranted due to the fact the victims were put much more at risk then from a normal property thief.
It is the lack of evidence for any other motive that makes it appear to be a hate crime, even if not racially motivated.
Of course hate crimes are easier to determine if the perp starts to yell pejoratives.
 
Is 1 crime more heinous than another just because it is motivated by "Hate"? I don't think so. Tell the family of a murder victim that their loss is not so bad because it was not motivated by hate. Evidence of hate can be useful as a motive, but should not be a crime in itself. Murder is murder period.
I dont think anybody disagrees, but here we are, all victims of the swamp
 
Hate crime laws are necessary.
That is because you can protect yourself from a crime of passion or greed.
You can just avoid getting personally involved with a person who you discover to be unstable or overly narcissistic.

But the difference and problem with a hate crime is that the victim did nothing to cause it and had no way to avoid it.
And a hate crime is MUCH more serious because who would commit a hate crime is a much greater danger not only to others, but all of society. They break down the essential social trust people have that allows society to function at all.
If everyone becomes unsafe due to people who are willing to attack strangers based just on things like their race, religion, appearance, political affiliation, etc., then society faces total collapse.

You can deter a crime of passion or greed with punishments, but it is much harder to deter a hate crime because it is irrational, so you really have to keep them locked up and secure, maybe forever.
Says you? Hahaha hahaha who the fk are you to pass judgment on others? Gawd? Hahaha hahaha delirious
However Progressives control the system and they do pass judgement.

Everyone who believes in a criminal justice system to reduce crime, believes in passing judgement.
And since it usually works, it is a good idea.
The problem is there no way to deter a hate crime committed against strangers.
Hate crime is mumbo jumbo tramp

No it isn't.
When you have impersonal crimes against whole groups of people who are being illegally discriminated against, you need additional protection.
Historical examples include the Holocaust against Jews, the slavery of Blacks, the massacre of Armenians, etc.
Those who commit crimes against whole groups of strangers really are a much greater threat to society than someone who just wants to commit a property crime.
Who are you referring to?

You said "hate crime is mumbo jumbo tramp", and clearly hate crimes are real, in that many times in history people have been targeted over a group belonging instead of anything they did or did not do.
 
Is 1 crime more heinous than another just because it is motivated by "Hate"? I don't think so. Tell the family of a murder victim that their loss is not so bad because it was not motivated by hate. Evidence of hate can be useful as a motive, but should not be a crime in itself. Murder is murder period.
There are different degrees of murder. Do you want to get rid of all those and treat them all the same?
"Hate" doesn't have to be a "degree of murder"
 
Is 1 crime more heinous than another just because it is motivated by "Hate"? I don't think so. Tell the family of a murder victim that their loss is not so bad because it was not motivated by hate. Evidence of hate can be useful as a motive, but should not be a crime in itself. Murder is murder period.
This is where you ignore the impact on society.

There are different degrees of murder. Do you want to get rid of all those and treat them all the same?

He said, murder is murder. Where hate crimes would be classified as 1st degree murder with aggravating factors. It would just be codifying those factors.

Murder is not just a single event of murder when it is a hate crime.
When one person kills one person over greed, jealousy, resentment, etc., there was a reason for it, and everyone else likely is safe since that reason does not apply to them.
But when it is a hare crime, then there is no reason for it, so it can't be avoided, and potentially tens of thousands of other people could also be at risk, through no fault of their own.
Normal murder does not threaten others, while hate crimes do.
What other kind is there?

What other kind of what is there?

If you mean what kinds of murders are there, there are crimes of greed and passion mostly.
And the difference between normal murder and hate crimes is that the target is limited to a motivation you can deter with a normal murder of greed or passion, but impossible to deter with motivated out of an irrational and impersonal hatred of any entire group of strangers.
All based off hate, intent hate, to hurt, demoralize

Not at all.
Most crimes are just a means to get money, not intentionally to harm anyone.
A bank robbery is a traditional crime, but the 9/11 attack was a hate crime.
See the difference?
You can't deter something like the 9/11 attack with penalties because they intended it to be suicidal.
You truly believe that nonsense. Makes you a
Sick human. Taking some thing that doesn’t belong to you is hate. Dignity is taken during a crime you fat fk

No, taking something that does not belong to you is not hate, but desire or greed.
If you were acting out of hate, you could more easily just destroy some property.
Greed requires you take something of value and get away with it, which is much harder to do.
 
Hate crime laws are necessary.
That is because you can protect yourself from a crime of passion or greed.
You can just avoid getting personally involved with a person who you discover to be unstable or overly narcissistic.

But the difference and problem with a hate crime is that the victim did nothing to cause it and had no way to avoid it.
And a hate crime is MUCH more serious because who would commit a hate crime is a much greater danger not only to others, but all of society. They break down the essential social trust people have that allows society to function at all.
If everyone becomes unsafe due to people who are willing to attack strangers based just on things like their race, religion, appearance, political affiliation, etc., then society faces total collapse.

You can deter a crime of passion or greed with punishments, but it is much harder to deter a hate crime because it is irrational, so you really have to keep them locked up and secure, maybe forever.
Says you? Hahaha hahaha who the fk are you to pass judgment on others? Gawd? Hahaha hahaha delirious

I was evaluating the risk to strangers, not passing judgement on the individual.
There is risk pumping gas, car jack you bozos ignore. No judgement

Car jackers rarely harm anyone, and just want property that is likely insured anyway.
Hate crimes tend to not be property, and are much more harmful, as well as being unpredictable.
They steal babies and shoot drivers. What a sick fk you are

Wrong.
No one intentionally steal babies or shoot drivers.
Those happen accidentally.
 
Car jackers very often hurt people if they don't want to give up their car....

Doubt they're shooting kids but anyone resisting them taking the car, yes
 
Car jackers very often hurt people if they don't want to give up their car....

Doubt they're shooting kids but anyone resisting them taking the car, yes

Which means their goal is the property value of the car and not an intent to cause personal harm.
With a hate crime, the goal is ONLY to cause personal harm, and there is no property value motive.
 
Is 1 crime more heinous than another just because it is motivated by "Hate"? I don't think so. Tell the family of a murder victim that their loss is not so bad because it was not motivated by hate. Evidence of hate can be useful as a motive, but should not be a crime in itself. Murder is murder period.
There are different degrees of murder. Do you want to get rid of all those and treat them all the same?
"Hate" doesn't have to be a "degree of murder"
It’s a factor identifying motive which assess risk and determines degree
 
Car jackers very often hurt people if they don't want to give up their car....

Doubt they're shooting kids but anyone resisting them taking the car, yes

Which means their goal is the property value of the car and not an intent to cause personal harm.
With a hate crime, the goal is ONLY to cause personal harm, and there is no property value motive.

Yea but the calculus they have is not exactly non violent

They're not car jacking empty cars

"they're not violent as long as they don't try to defend themselves from my at best threats" is not exactly saying anything.

Like the guys who return kids and yell at the parents, those guys had no plans to hurt anyone. They thought they were stealing empty cars when that happens for the most part.
 
If anyone is motivated to commit a crime based on blatantly false and hateful information, the people that promoted and/or propagated that blatantly false and hateful information should be held equally accountable as the person that committed the crime.

For example:

If I spread a false rumor that my neighbor is a child molester, and someone murders my neighbor, I should be held accountable for that murder.

That idea will keep half the wingnuts up at night!!!
 
If anyone is motivated to commit a crime based on blatantly false and hateful information, the people that promoted and/or propagated that blatantly false and hateful information should be held equally accountable as the person that committed the crime.

For example:

If I spread a false rumor that my neighbor is a child molester, and someone murders my neighbor, I should be held accountable for that murder.

That idea will keep half the wingnuts up at night!!!

Will also curtail speech so we should never do it

Not worth the trade off
 
If anyone is motivated to commit a crime based on blatantly false and hateful information, the people that promoted and/or propagated that blatantly false and hateful information should be held equally accountable as the person that committed the crime.

For example:

If I spread a false rumor that my neighbor is a child molester, and someone murders my neighbor, I should be held accountable for that murder.

That idea will keep half the wingnuts up at night!!!
It is not the group so much as the odds on a percentage of the group giving a greater chance of criminal activity. An argument can be made for the reasons though.
 
Is 1 crime more heinous than another just because it is motivated by "Hate"? I don't think so. Tell the family of a murder victim that their loss is not so bad because it was not motivated by hate. Evidence of hate can be useful as a motive, but should not be a crime in itself. Murder is murder period.
Could that be because so many White conservative nationalists are guilty of hate crimes and end up attacking people simply because of their race or their perceived sexual identity?
 

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