Zone1 I asked a protestant to tell me when his church began, why it doesn't go back to the Beginning

[notmyfault2020]

And of course, he couldn't deny that the JWs only go back to something like the 19th century.

Now some here are going to say the JWs are a cult or whatever and I tend to agree.. but they are a protestant group.. one of the 60,000 we have since the heretic Luther busted up Christ's Church

because he couldn't adhere to the Commandments of Christ

true story.

Luther is a legend, but only among protestants who don't want to study Catholicism. If they only knew all the vile things I know about Luther.. he would not be a hero to them anymore.. except for the liberal ones among them, who are not Christian at all of course.

 

[Confederate Soldier]

So I am supposing you are Catholic. If only you knew the crimes the catholic church has committed against humanity.

 

[notmyfault2020]

So I am supposing you are Catholic. If only you knew the crimes the catholic church has committed against humanity.

I know the history of the Catholic Church better than most people do which ofcourse I have to admit may not be saying much.. A lot of people know ZIP

Well, to paraphrase the great John Kennedy, Senator from the great state of Louisiana

Catholics aren't perfect but the other side is crazy! (He said that not about Catholicism but about the Republicans and "the other side" = Dims)

OK, I am not saying all protestants are crazy but frankly, it seems they are when confronted with Catholicism.. they have been taught and tenacioiusly hold onto .. a lot of bs RE the Catholic Church.

And again, I am not a bergoglio Catholic. I am a St Pius X Catholic, the Society thereof being the true Catholic Church.. The bergoglio church is .. train wreck

 

[Viktor]

And of course, he couldn't deny that the JWs only go back to something like the 19th century.

Now some here are going to say the JWs are a cult or whatever and I tend to agree.. but they are a protestant group.. one of the 60,000 we have since the heretic Luther busted up Christ's Church

because he couldn't adhere to the Commandments of Christ

true story.

Luther is a legend, but only among protestants who don't want to study Catholicism. If they only knew all the vile things I know about Luther.. he would not be a hero to them anymore.. except for the liberal ones among them, who are not Christian at all of course.

Lots of Christians say JW is NOT a Christian denomination.

 

[Cougarbear]

And of course, he couldn't deny that the JWs only go back to something like the 19th century.

Now some here are going to say the JWs are a cult or whatever and I tend to agree.. but they are a protestant group.. one of the 60,000 we have since the heretic Luther busted up Christ's Church

because he couldn't adhere to the Commandments of Christ

true story.

Luther is a legend, but only among protestants who don't want to study Catholicism. If they only knew all the vile things I know about Luther.. he would not be a hero to them anymore.. except for the liberal ones among them, who are not Christian at all of course.

Like what?

One of Christ's commandments was to do all things in his NAME. The Name of your Church is The Roman Catholic Church. Your Church can't even do that right and name it The Church of Jesus Christ. And, you are complaining about the Baptist Church and others? At least the Jehovah Witness Church uses the other name of Jesus, Jehovah. So, until you can fix that one. you should find a church that has Jesus Christ in it. Like, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And, don't start in with the "cult" or "doctrine" nonsense because it was you that said, "because he couldn't adhere to the Commandments of Christ."

 

[notmyfault2020]

Lots of Christians say JW is NOT a Christian denomination.

well, they mention Jesus and a certain version of the Bible which I have found to be false at least on certain psgs therein.. so I agree w/ non-Catholics who say it is not Christian, depending on one's definition of "Christian" It certainly does not fit my own description

 

[notmyfault2020]

Like what?

One of Christ's commandments was to do all things in his NAME. The Name of your Church is The Roman Catholic Church. Your Church can't even do that right and name it The Church of Jesus Christ. And, you are complaining about the Baptist Church and others? At least the Jehovah Witness Church uses the other name of Jesus, Jehovah. So, until you can fix that one. you should find a church that has Jesus Christ in it. Like, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And, don't start in with the "cult" or "doctrine" nonsense because it was you that said, "because he couldn't adhere to the Commandments of Christ."

you have things all muddled up. Hmmm.. I know! Maybe you could study Catholicism from

drum roll

CATHOLICS

That may be a good start. I'm sick of people acting like they know ALL about Catholicism when they obviously (by their words) do NOT. That never stops them, however, from acting like they know more about Catholicism than Catholics do.

Does that makes sense?

It doesn't to me. How would it be if I went to some ivy league college science professor and told him, No, you have it all wrong. Take it from me, a person who has never been into science but just the same.. I've heard this and heard that and there is no such thing as gravity.. Please stop teaching that there is!

Please

 

[Cougarbear]

you have things all muddled up. Hmmm.. I know! Maybe you could study Catholicism from

drum roll

CATHOLICS

That may be a good start. I'm sick of people acting like they know ALL about Catholicism when they obviously (by their words) do NOT. That never stops them, however, from acting like they know more about Catholicism than Catholics do.

Does that makes sense?

It doesn't to me. How would it be if I went to some ivy league college science professor and told him, No, you have it all wrong. Take it from me, a person who has never been into science but just the same.. I've heard this and heard that and there is no such thing as gravity.. Please stop teaching that there is!

Please

Almost funny. Jesus commanded that we do all things in His name. His name is not Roman. It's not Catholic. It's not Church. Nothing is muddled up. You said that protestants don't follow the commandments of Jesus Christ. Well, starting with the name of your church, you certainly don't. And, that's the beginning. What I care about is what Jesus Christ and his apostles and prophets have had to say. Like, do all things in Jesus Christ's name. What anyone knows about Catholicism has nothing to do with this breaking of a commandment of Jesus Christ. How embarrassing for you.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Almost funny. Jesus commanded that we do all things in His name. His name is not Roman. It's not Catholic. It's not Church.

so you are hung up on words

sad

 

[there4eyeM]

Reformation was well advanced before Luther came along. Rome's church has always required correction.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Reformation was well advanced before Luther came along. Rome's church has always required correction.

please. It goes w/o saying that any institution wherein you find human beings is "always requir[ing] correction"

And reformation was not "well advanced before Luther.."

So many lies about the Catholic Church. Nothing is more lied about.

 

[Meriweather]

Reformation was well advanced before Luther came along. Rome's church has always required correction.

I take it you haven't done any studies on reformers within the Church? This was happening from the beginning--and certainly in the days up to, through, and after the Reformation.

 

[there4eyeM]

I take it you haven't done any studies on reformers within the Church? This was happening from the beginning--and certainly in the days up to, through, and after the Reformation.

That is what was said. You "take it" quite incorrectly. The Roman Church has constantly needed correction. Unfortunately, it has remained incorrect.

 

[there4eyeM]

please. It goes w/o saying that any institution wherein you find human beings is "always requir[ing] correction"

And reformation was not "well advanced before Luther.."

So many lies about the Catholic Church. Nothing is more lied about.

Yes, lying has been very present throughout the Roman Church's history of attempted domination of Jesus' message. This is apparent even to those of us not part of any particular denomination.

 

[ninja007]

MOST CATHOLICS are not saved or else they wouldnt still be going to a rcc.

 

[ninja007]

Paul stated in Colossians 2:8 “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, AND NOT AFTER CHRIST.” He said to” let the word of God dwell in you richly.” He never spoke of learning of tradition. It is ONLY the word of God that is living and active (Heb.4:12) to change one from the inside, traditions can never be of equal value to what God has written down for all generations to live by. As Jesus said.... My WORDS are SPIRIT and they are LIFE. Traditions in the church hundreds of years after are not His word and do not have his spirit or life.

 

[ninja007]

What is the Catholic catechism?​

Answer

A catechism is a summary of instructions through a series of questions and answers, prepared in book form, containing instruction on religious doctrine. The intent of these instructions is that they be used in a class environment or other means of formal instruction. The Westminster Confession, every part of which contains scriptural backing, is one such set of instructions. The Catholic catechism is another famous catechism.

The catechism of the Catholic Church is different in that it is not written in a question-and-answer format. Instead, the Catholic catechism is a summary of the official teachings of Roman Catholic beliefs including creeds, sacraments, commandments, and prayers. The Catholic catechism is divided into four parts:

• Profession of Faith (the Apostles Creed)
• Celebration of the Christian Mystery (the Sacred Liturgy, especially the sacraments)
• Life in Christ (including The Ten Commandments in Roman Catholic theology)
• Christian Prayer (including The Lord’s Prayer)

Also, the Catholic catechism is replete with footnotes referencing not only Scripture but also the Church fathers, the ecumenical councils, and other authoritative statements, especially those delivered by the Popes. And therein lies the greatest difference between Catholicism and Protestantism. Whereas Protestant churches cite the Bible as their sole source of authority for church doctrine, the Roman Catholic Church equates Catholic traditions with the Bible as authoritative for their beliefs and teachings. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that “the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the Holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence” (paragraph 82).

According to the Catholic catechism, the Catholic Church relies on the authority of church tradition for their doctrines not found in the Bible. These doctrines include such controversial practices and teachings as these:

• the Mass
• penance
• veneration of Mary
• purgatory
• indulgences
• the priesthood (with enforced celibacy)
• the confessional
• the rosary
• venial and mortal sins

Protestants, who reject the Catholic catechism, assert that the Bible alone is intended by God to be the sole source of doctrinal truth (2 Timothy 3:16; Revelation 22:18–19). But Roman Catholics say, “Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 97).

The Catholic’s reasoning, as found in the Catholic catechism, is as follows:

• “The apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them ‘their own position of teaching authority’” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 77).

• “This living transmission, accomplished through the Holy Spirit, is called tradition” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 78).

• “Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 82).

An example of the results of this kind of thinking is the number of doctrines concerning Mary, the mother of Jesus. Throughout the centuries, Catholics have “revealed” new doctrines concerning Mary. These new teachings, which are part of the Catholic catechism, are found nowhere in the Holy Scriptures:

• Mary is the Mother of God — AD 431
• Prayers are offered to Mary — AD 600
• The Immaculate Conception (establishing her sinlessness) — AD 1854
• The Assumption of Mary — AD 1950
• Mary is the Mother of the Church — AD 1965

Another example is the doctrine of purgatory:

“All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation, but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1030). Nowhere is this teaching of a believer being punished for sin after death found in the Bible.

Although the Pope is revered as the head of the church on earth by nearly 60 million Roman Catholics, the Bible teaches us that Jesus Christ has all authority in heaven and on earth; Jesus is the exclusive Head of the church (Matthew 28:18; Colossians 1:18).

From the above examples, we can only conclude that the Catholic catechism is not biblical and, in fact, contradicts Scripture in many respects. Once the teachings of man are elevated to the same level as the Word of God, error naturally follows. No man, whether priest or Pope, is divine. Only the Holy Scriptures, inspired by the Holy Spirit, are divinely authoritative (1 Corinthians 2:12–13; 2 Peter 1:21). No man-made teaching, including the Catholic catechism, is on the same level with the Bible.

What is the Catholic catechism? | GotQuestions.org

What is the Catholic catechism / catechesis? What are the core teachings of the Catholic catechism?

www.gotquestions.org

What is the Catholic catechism? | GotQuestions.org

What is the Catholic catechism / catechesis? What are the core teachings of the Catholic catechism?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[ninja007]

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The False Hope of Purgatory​

by John MacArthur

Wednesday, July 13, 2022








This post was originally published in July 2018. –ed.
Let’s be clear from the outset: The Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory is taught nowhere in Scripture. It was invented to accommodate Catholicism’s denial of justification by faith alone. And it offers false hope to millions who anticipate ample time beyond the grave—perhaps eons, if necessary—to achieve their own justification.
Scripture very clearly teaches that an absolutely perfect righteousness is necessary for entry into heaven. Jesus said, “I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:20). He then added, “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48)—thus setting the standard as high as it can possibly be set.
The Only Way to Heaven
Later in His ministry, when the rich young ruler approached Jesus to ask how he might enter heaven, Jesus upheld this same standard of absolute perfection. He began by challenging the clear implication that the young man hoped he could attain a sufficient goodness of his own to merit heaven: “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good” (Matthew 19:17). Notice: Jesus did not disclaim that He Himself was sinlessly perfect (a common misinterpretation of this passage). He was simply pointing out plainly that the standard of perfection required to earn heaven is impossible for fallen creatures.
Because the young man was undeterred by this, however, Jesus told him that to obtain eternal life, he must have a track record of perfect obedience to the law (Matthew 19:17-22). Again and again, Jesus made the required standard of righteousness impossibly high for all who would seek to earn God’s favor on their own.
The young ruler clearly did not understand or acknowledge his own sinfulness. He assured Jesus that he had indeed kept the law from his youth up (v. 20).
Jesus subtly pointed out the young man’s covetousness (v. 21), which was a violation of the tenth commandment. From the outset of His conversation with the young man, the Lord was prodding him to confess that no one but God Himself is truly good. But the rich young ruler was unwilling to face his own sinfulness, and so he went away without salvation.
The disciples marveled at this. The young man was evidently—from a human perspective—one of the most righteous individuals they’d encountered. Notice that no one disputed his claim that he had obeyed the law. That suggests there were no overt sins in his life that anyone could point to. He seemed the best of men. So the disciples were floored when he walked away with no assurance of eternal life from Jesus. In fact, Jesus told them, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:23-24).
There’s no mistaking Jesus’ point. He was setting the standard at an impossible height. He was saying that the most fastidious legal observance is not enough. The most flawless external righteousness is not enough. All the worldly advantages of wealth are of no help. Only absolute perfection is acceptable to God. Our Lord kept underscoring these truths because He wanted people to see the utter futility of trying to earn righteousness by any system of works.
The disciples got the message. They asked, “Then who can be saved?” (Matthew 19:25).
And Jesus replied, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26).
Accepted By Imputation
We know from Paul’s treatise on justification in Romans 4 that God saves believers by imputing to them the merit of Christ’s perfect righteousness—by no means because of their own righteousness. God accepts believers “in Christ.” He clothes them with the perfect righteousness of Christ. He declares them perfectly righteous because of Christ. Their sins have been imputed to Christ, who has paid the full penalty. His righteousness is now imputed to them and—through His imputed righteousness—they receive His full merit. That is what justification by faith means. The Father “made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
In other words, God does not first make us perfect, then accept us on that basis. He first legally justifies us by imputing to us an alien righteousness, then perfects us by conforming us to the image of Christ. He “justifies the ungodly” (Romans 4:5).
Paul wrote, “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). Those verses describe our justification as something already accomplished—a completed reality, not something we are striving for. Jesus Himself described justification as an immediate event when He told how the repentant publican was saved after begging God for mercy: “I tell you, this man went to his house justified” (Luke 18:14).
Scripture clearly and consistently attests to justification as a settled fact for every believer; it is not an ongoing process. We stand before God in faith right now, fully acceptable to Him because of Christ’s righteousness—not because of any doings of our own.
False Doctrine and False Hope
Roman Catholic doctrine denies all of that. Catholicism teaches that justification is an ongoing process that depends on the degree of real, personal righteousness we achieve. According to Rome, Christ’s merit imputed to us is not enough to save; we must earn more merit of our own through the sacraments and other good works. Righteousness is infused into us (rather than being imputed to us). But it is obvious that we are not perfectly righteous by any practical measure. So the righteousness we obtain by grace must be perfected by our own efforts.
According to Catholic teaching, this real, personal righteousness that resides in us is the necessary ground on which God accepts us. And our justification is not complete until we are really and completely perfect—by an inherent righteousness, not merely by a legally imputed righteousness. This actually reverses the biblical order, suggesting that we must first be perfected, and only then is our justification complete. In other words, in Roman Catholic doctrine, God does not justify the ungodly.
The Catholic view of justification poses an obvious dilemma. We know too well that even the best Christians fall far short of perfection. No one (Catholic teaching actually says almost no one) achieves absolute perfection in this life. And if our own perfection is a prerequisite for heaven, it would seem no one could enter there immediately upon dying. Any remaining imperfections would need to be worked out first.
The invention of purgatory was necessary to solve this dilemma. Deny that we are justified by faith alone, and you must devise an explanation of how we can make the transition from our imperfect state in this life to the perfect state of heaven. Purgatory is where Roman Catholics believe most people go after death to be finally purged of their remaining guilt and gain whatever merit they may be lacking to enter heaven. Catholicism teaches that this process involves intense pain and suffering.
Oddly enough, although Catholic doctrine denies that the imputed righteousness of Christ is sufficient to save sinners in this life, it does allow the imputation of righteousness from living sinners to those in purgatory. This is why masses are said for the dead. Supposedly the righteousness earned by way of the sacrament is imputed to the person in purgatory, which shortens his or her stay there.
The Catholic doctrine of purgatory offers false hope to people hoping to atone for their own sins on the other side of the grave. Rome’s warped and perverted view of justification will undoubtedly usher into eternal torment many who expected to have more time to achieve perfection.

The False Hope of Purgatory

This post was originally published in July 2018. –ed. Let’s be clear from the outset: The Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory is taught nowhere in Scripture. It was invented to accommodate Cat

www.gty.org

Purgatory is a dangerous satan led doctrine. Once you die thats it. You must accept Jesus while youre still alive! The Bible says after death then the judgement. Heaven or Hell.

 

[Batcat]

you have things all muddled up. Hmmm.. I know! Maybe you could study Catholicism from

drum roll

CATHOLICS

That may be a good start. I'm sick of people acting like they know ALL about Catholicism when they obviously (by their words) do NOT. That never stops them, however, from acting like they know more about Catholicism than Catholics do.

Does that makes sense?

It doesn't to me. How would it be if I went to some ivy league college science professor and told him, No, you have it all wrong. Take it from me, a person who has never been into science but just the same.. I've heard this and heard that and there is no such thing as gravity.. Please stop teaching that there is!

Please

A question…

Do you think all Protestants are doomed to go to Hell?

I am not Catholic but I don‘t believe that all Catholics are headed to Hell.

 

[Meriweather]

That is what was said. You "take it" quite incorrectly. The Roman Church has constantly needed correction. Unfortunately, it has remained incorrect.

Then let's talk about the main issue you believe has not been corrected.