Zone1 How we repair it: White Americans’ attitudes toward reparations

[JoeB131]

That would send the national debt even higher. We can’t afford it.

I‘m OK with specific blacks who can trace their ancestors to being slaves of specific whites, and if the direct descendants of any of those whites have a net worth of $1 million, give a total of $50,000 to the black descendants. It would be a one-time payment, with a time limit of five years for researching and proving the case.

Why are you always trying to cheat people out of money?

 

[JoeB131]

name-calling​

noun​

name-call·ing ˈnām-ˌkȯ-liŋ

Synonyms of name-calling
: the use of offensive names especially to win an argument or to induce rejection or condemnation (as of a person or project) without objective consideration of the facts

Definition of NAME-CALLING

the use of offensive names especially to win an argument or to induce rejection or condemnation (as of a person or project) without objective consideration of the facts… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Nobody cares, buddy.

Frankly, you need to be more real, and less pretentious. Nobody likes people who are pretentious.

(And now comes the part where Hector whines about how he has more upvotes than I have, or something.)

 

[JoeB131]

What is the appeal to authority fallacy?​

The appeal to authority fallacy is the logical fallacy of saying a claim is true simply because an authority figure made it. This authority figure could be anyone: an instructor, a politician, a well-known academic, an author, or even an individual with experience related to the claim’s subject.

Or you realize that people are authorities for a reason.

So, we get back to the basics of all your arguments. You cite a bunch of cranks who put together bullshit studies where they wrote their conclusions (black people are inferior) before they collected a shred of evidence. This is pretty much the oppossite of how science works, Cockroach. You don't fit the evidence to the theory you fit the theory to the evidence. This is why real science is peer-reviewed, which is why most people reject the teachings of Murray, Rushton, and other poster boys of the White Supremacist fringe.

 

[Hector12]

Joe Biden’s 1975 comments slamming slavery reparations, school busing resurfaced by Washington Post

I liked him better back then.

 

[sparky]

Give it five years, then we are even. Then they can STFU.

well that's certainly incentive DG

~S~

 

[sparky]

This is pretty much the oppossite of how science works, Cockroach. You don't fit the evidence to the theory you fit the theory to the evidence.

oh the places the upper quintile could go Joe.......~S~

 

[Hector12]

Or you realize that people are authorities for a reason.

So, we get back to the basics of all your arguments. You cite a bunch of cranks who put together bullshit studies where they wrote their conclusions (black people are inferior) before they collected a shred of evidence. This is pretty much the oppossite of how science works, Cockroach. You don't fit the evidence to the theory you fit the theory to the evidence. This is why real science is peer-reviewed, which is why most people reject the teachings of Murray, Rushton, and other poster boys of the White Supremacist fringe.

Charles Murray, Jared Taylor, and Professor's Arthur Jensen, Richard Herrnstein, and J. Philippe Rushton are able to substantiate their assertions with mountains of data.

Blaming black social pathology on white racism does not explain why black rates of crime and illegitimacy have risen since 1963, and why black academic performance has improved very little. According to Charles Murray black academic performance improved slightly until the middle 1980's, and has not improved since.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

It seems that the concept of reparations is a problem. Apparently that is based on a lack of knowledge about history. Most just reflexively while not really knowing the iinformation that makes the case for reparations. So it appears that an education as to why reparations should be paid needs to happen and included is the information that can and will be used as part of the case.

The opposition to reparations being paid for something that happened 200 years ago is invalid, you will see why in a few seconds.

How we repair it: White Americans’ attitudes toward reparations​

The United States is again at a crossroads of racial reckoning. The death of George Floyd and the 2020 summer of protests for racial justice added new urgency to ongoing discussions about the legacy of slavery and its contemporary implications for the lives of Black Americans. A key question at the root of this discussion is: how do we repair the harm – economic, physical, and psychological — caused to Black lives by slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, police brutality, and other manifestations of systemic racism?
The United States has used reparations—targeted initiatives intended to concretely repair a harm against a person or persons resulting from the collective action of others—as a means of acknowledging and atoning for its role in other atrocities, including the internment of Japanese Americans and the forced removal and destruction of six indigenous communities: the Ottawas of Michigan, the Chippewas of Wisconsin, the Seminoles of Florida, the Sioux of South Dakota, the Klamaths of Oregon, and the Alaska Natives.* However, the descendants of Africans enslaved on U.S. soil have been notably absent from this history of reparative actions. While the task of reparations seems daunting to many Americans considering the scale of injustice presented by slavery and its aftermath, we believe this is a conversation the country needs to have.

Given that white Americans gained the most from slavery and its compounded effects — a process referred to as unjust enrichment – is their widespread opposition to reparations rooted in maintaining this advantage?

How we repair it: White Americans’ attitudes toward reparations

Ashley V. Reichelmann and Matthew O. Hunt explore white Americans’ attitudes toward reparative policies and social factors affecting their views.

www.brookings.edu

1970: Richard Nixon signed into law House Resolution 471 restoring Blue Lake and surrounding area to the Taos Pueblo (New Mexico). The land had been taken by presidential order in 1906. (A History of the Indians in the United States by Angie Debo (Norman, OK: University of Oklahoma Press, 1984, p. 422); see also "Taos Pueblo celebrates 40th anniversary of Blue Lake's return" by Matthew van Buren, Santa Fe New Mexican, September 18, 2010.)

The payments from 1971-1988 are taken from the booklet Black Reparations Now! 40 Acres, $50 Dollars, and a Mule, + Interest by Dorothy Benton-Lewis; and borrowed from N’COBRA (National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America).

1971: Around $1 billion + 44 million acres of land: Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act.

1974: A $10 million out-of-court settlement was reached between the U.S. government and Tuskegee victims, black men who had been unwitting subjects of a study of untreated syphilis, and who did not receive available treatments. (“The Tuskegee Timeline”, CDC, updated March 2, 2020.)

1980: $81 million: Klamaths of Oregon. ("Spending Spree" by Dylan Darling, Herald and News (Klamath Falls, OR), June 21, 2005.)

1980: $105 million: Sioux of South Dakota for seizure of their land. (United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians, 448 U.S. 371 (1980).)

1985: $12.3 million: Seminoles of Florida. (see Racial Justice in America: A Reference Handbook by David B. Mustard, 2002, ABC-CLIO, p. 81.)

1985: $31 million: Chippewas of Wisconsin. (see Racial Justice in America: A Reference Handbook by David B. Mustard, 2002, ABC-CLIO, p. 81.)

1986: $32 million per 1836 Treaty: Ottawas of Michigan. (see Racial Justice in America: A Reference Handbook by David B. Mustard, 2002, ABC-CLIO, p. 81.)

2016: The U.S. government reached a settlement of $492 million with 17 Native American tribes to resolve lawsuits alleging the federal government mismanaged tribal land, resources, and money. (“U.S. Government To Pay $492 Million To 17 American Indian Tribes” by Rebecca Hersher, NPR, September 27, 2016.)

2018: The Supreme Court, in a 4-4 deadlock, let stand a lower court's order to the state of Washington to make billions of dollars worth of repairs to roads, where the state had built culverts below road channels and structures in a way that prevented salmon from swimming through and reaching their spawning grounds, that had damaged the state’s salmon habitats and contributed to population loss. The case involved the Stevens Treaties, a series of agreements in 1854-55, in which tribes in Washington State gave up millions of acres of land in exchange for "the right to take fish." Implicit in the treaties, courts would later rule, was a guarantee that there would be enough fish for the tribes to harvest. Destroying the habitat reduces the population and thus violates these treaties. This decision directly affects the Swinomish Tribe. ("A Victory For A Tribe That’s Lost Its Salmon" by John Eligon, The New York Times, June 12, 2018.)

Were any of you alive when those tribes were forcibly removed or cheated?

The argument that black folks should get reparations is evil. Simply, because of the fact that white people were enslaved by blacks. As many as 1 million white people were enslaved by blacks in Africa. But either way slavery was a worldwide institution.

Reparations is way to make irresponsible people even more irresponsible and lazy. They meeting some Black people expect a handout for no good reason. And it really isn’t abomination considering all the poor white people in the USA.

The great majority of Americans reject the BLM narrative, most black and white Americans know, and understand that slavery was a worldwide issue. We are all descendants of slaves, and together united we can make the whole country a better place.

 

[Unkotare]

The argument that black folks should get reparations is evil. Simply, because of the fact that white people were enslaved by blacks. As many as 1 million white people were enslaved by blacks in Africa. But either way slavery was a worldwide institution.

Reparations is way to make irresponsible people even more irresponsible and lazy. They meeting some Black people expect a handout for no good reason. And it really isn’t abomination considering all the poor white people in the USA.

The great majority of Americans reject the BLM narrative, most black and white Americans know, and understand that slavery was a worldwide issue. We are all descendants of slaves, and together united we can make the whole country a better place.

Are you trying to buy the world a coke?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I liked him better back then.

It’s a totally different person

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are you trying to buy the world a coke?

What's Coke in Russian?

 

[JoeB131]

Charles Murray, Jared Taylor, and Professor's Arthur Jensen, Richard Herrnstein, and J. Philippe Rushton

Are a bunch of racist cranks who are rejected by Academia.

Blaming black social pathology on white racism does not explain why black rates of crime and illegitimacy have risen since 1963, and why black academic performance has improved very little. According to Charles Murray black academic performance improved slightly until the middle 1980's, and has not improved since.

1) Crime rates have gone DOWN since 1990. That was when we had peak baby boomer stupid, but crime rates have declined steadily since then.

2) Out of wedlock births have gone up for ALL races, mostly because people no longer feel a need to marry someone they don't love just because a baby is involved

France has an OOW birth rate of nearly 60%. France is just fine.

3) Your claims about academic perforance aren't true, either. black people have improved their scores while white kids have remained kind of flat.

But let's look at just how ONE Factor can severely effect test scores. Covid. Kids were out of classrooms for about a year.

And there was a HUGE drop in scores

Now, multiply that for black people of generations of underfunded schools, with lazy union teachers who don't feel much of a need to do their jobs, lack of resources, school buildings that are often delapidated, and so on. And then you get an idea of WHY black kids are lagging behind.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, look, everyone, a Russian Troll is stirring up more trouble.

The argument that black folks should get reparations is evil. Simply, because of the fact that white people were enslaved by blacks. As many as 1 million white people were enslaved by blacks in Africa. But either way slavery was a worldwide institution.

Except if you lived in this country instead of waiting for your daily borscht and vodka ration, you'd know that America has paid lots of reparations to groups that have been wronged, including Japanese-Americans in WWII, Native Americans who had their land taken, the families of men who weren't treated as part of the Tuskegee study, and so on. We've paid compensation to businesses forced to close during Covid (AKA Trump Plauge).

Reparations is way to make irresponsible people even more irresponsible and lazy. They meeting some Black people expect a handout for no good reason. And it really isn’t abomination considering all the poor white people in the USA.

If you are poor and white in the US, that's your own damned fault. You had all the advantages of white privilege and you STILL managed to fuck it up.

The things is, we spend FAR more on middle class entitlements to keep white people from becoming poor than we spend on assistance to boost black people out of poverty.

The great majority of Americans reject the BLM narrative, most black and white Americans know, and understand that slavery was a worldwide issue. We are all descendants of slaves, and together united we can make the whole country a better place.

Oh, please stop trying to minimize the Issue, Fyoder. What was done to black people was a crime, that is still going on until this day. I know your Commisaar is telling you to stir up the shit here.

 

[Hector12]

Are a bunch of racist cranks who are rejected by Academia.



1) Crime rates have gone DOWN since 1990. That was when we had peak baby boomer stupid, but crime rates have declined steadily since then.

View attachment 932844

2) Out of wedlock births have gone up for ALL races, mostly because people no longer feel a need to marry someone they don't love just because a baby is involved

View attachment 932845
France has an OOW birth rate of nearly 60%. France is just fine.

3) Your claims about academic perforance aren't true, either. black people have improved their scores while white kids have remained kind of flat.

View attachment 932848

But let's look at just how ONE Factor can severely effect test scores. Covid. Kids were out of classrooms for about a year.
View attachment 932846
And there was a HUGE drop in scores

Now, multiply that for black people of generations of underfunded schools, with lazy union teachers who don't feel much of a need to do their jobs, lack of resources, school buildings that are often delapidated, and so on. And then you get an idea of WHY black kids are lagging behind.

Crime rated declined after 1990 because of the rise in the prison population. Whites have always had lower rates of crime and illegitimacy than Negroes, and higher rates of academic performance.

 

[Hector12]

The things is, we spend FAR more on middle class entitlements to keep white people from becoming poor than we spend on assistance to boost black people out of poverty.

Black poverty is caused by this:

When affirmative action is ended in hiring decisions millions of Negroes will be fired from jobs they never deserved. Black poverty will become more severe. Living standards for Orientals and whites will improve as Orientals and whites are hired to perform jobs Negroes lacked the intelligence to perform adequately.

 

[Hector12]

Oh, please stop trying to minimize the Issue, Fyoder. What was done to black people was a crime, that is still going on until this day.

I never committed any crimes against Negroes. They have committed crimes against me.

------------

Race and crime in the United States​

The per-capita offending rate for African-Americans was roughly eight times higher than that of whites...

According to the National Crime Victimization Survey in 2002, robberies with white victims and black offenders were more than 12 times more common than the opposite.[57][58]...

In 1978, Michael Hindelang compared data from the National Crime Victimization Survey (then known as the National Crime Survey, or NCS) to data from the Uniform Crime Reports, both from 1974. He found that NCS data generally agreed with UCR data in regards to the percent of perpetrators of rape, robbery, and assault who were black.[59] For instance, Hindelang's analysis found that both the NCS and UCR estimated that 62% of robbery offenders were black in the United States in 1974.[60]: 327  A 2004 National Crime Victimization Survey report which analyzed carjacking over 10 years found that carjacking victims identified 56% of offenders as black, 21% as white, and 16% as indigenous American or Asian.[61][62][63]

Race and crime in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JoeB131]

Crime rated declined after 1990 because of the rise in the prison population. Whites have always had lower rates of crime and illegitimacy than Negroes, and higher rates of academic performance.

No, guy, it declined because of Demographics, and because a lot of alternative measures were in the Clinton Crime Bill.

I never committed any crimes against Negroes. They have committed crimes against me.

Maybe if you didn't go through life being such a pussy, that wouldn't happen.

Black poverty is caused by this:

Nope, that chart is still racist bullshit. I hope you don't pin that to your wall and wank off to it.

 

[Hector12]

No, guy, it declined because of Demographics, and because a lot of alternative measures were in the Clinton Crime Bill.


Maybe if you didn't go through life being such a pussy, that wouldn't happen.


Nope, that chart is still racist bullshit. I hope you don't pin that to your wall and wank off to it.

What you dismiss is truth about racial differences in average intelligence. That truth can be proven by many standards.

 

[Hector12]

Maybe if you didn't go through life being such a pussy, that wouldn't happen.

That's right, gloat about it, just as you gloat about the persecution of the Jews, including the Holocaust.

 

[JoeB131]

What you dismiss is truth about racial differences in average intelligence. That truth can be proven by many standards.

No, I just realize that when you intentionally suppress a people for 400 years, you are going to get bad results.

That's right, gloat about it, just as you gloat about the persecution of the Jews, including the Holocaust.

Never go through life with a victim mentality, Hector. I'd give that advise to Lisa as well, but I don't know if she's ignoring me this week or not.

I don't condone violence, but I understand it.