How to Deal with the Family Criminal?...

[Iceweasel]

I'd go to the events but pull him aside and tell him to stay away from you and your wife. Carry some pepper spray in case he forgets.

 

[westwall]

If you'd read all the way to the bottom before posting, you would have seen my comment this morning confirming Westwall's correctness in this matter.

I just noticed, although I am not going to applaud Westwall for making baseless assumptions without knowing all the information.

My wife is a PhD psychologist. I am very adept at reading between the lines, added to the extraordinary length of time he had to serve in prison it was a no brainer. Every study done about the recidivism rates are based on incredibly poor factual data. Thus you get wildly variable estimates of recidivism. However, one of my wifes friends is the head of the Denver area (Arapahoe Country) mental health division, and according to her internal numbers there is a 100% recidivism rate. The reason being the perpetrators truly believe the children love them. There are other studies that show it to be incurable, once again because of the underlying belief that they are completely normal and do not understand that children are incapable of making those sorts of decisions.

There is loads of research available but it is all behind paywalls so I am unable to link you to it.

I see, so you're citing third-hand anecdotal evidence about one county in Colorado. Great.

No, I also mentioned all of the studies that are behind paywalls so can't provide a link. Please read my posts fully instead of trying to pick stupid fights for no reason.

Worked as a minister in the prison system and what you are saying is pretty much what the staff, medical and non medical will tell you. Most of the abuser will tell you they will never be cured. They are a very manipulative group.

Indeed they are. That's why they are able to molest so many kids before they are ever caught. I don't remember the exact number but it was around 35 victims per perp before they were caught. Truly sad.

 

[Onyx]

Worked as a minister in the prison system and what you are saying is pretty much what the staff, medical and non medical will tell you. Most of the abuser will tell you they will never be cured. They are a very manipulative group.

You cannot cure pedophilia. It is the same broken theory behind homosexual conversion therapy.

Molesters have a high recidivism rate because they already surpassed the threshold. They have already proven that the drive to satiate their desires outweighs their empathy for the victim.

There is no correlation between subconscious sexual desires and behavioral psychology, so accusing the group as a whole of being manipulative is as silly as accusing all homosexuals of being flamboyant and girly.

 

[GaryDog]

If you'd read all the way to the bottom before posting, you would have seen my comment this morning confirming Westwall's correctness in this matter.

I just noticed, although I am not going to applaud Westwall for making baseless assumptions without knowing all the information.

My wife is a PhD psychologist. I am very adept at reading between the lines, added to the extraordinary length of time he had to serve in prison it was a no brainer. Every study done about the recidivism rates are based on incredibly poor factual data. Thus you get wildly variable estimates of recidivism. However, one of my wifes friends is the head of the Denver area (Arapahoe Country) mental health division, and according to her internal numbers there is a 100% recidivism rate. The reason being the perpetrators truly believe the children love them. There are other studies that show it to be incurable, once again because of the underlying belief that they are completely normal and do not understand that children are incapable of making those sorts of decisions.

There is loads of research available but it is all behind paywalls so I am unable to link you to it.

I see, so you're citing third-hand anecdotal evidence about one county in Colorado. Great.

No, I also mentioned all of the studies that are behind paywalls so can't provide a link. Please read my posts fully instead of trying to pick stupid fights for no reason.

No, I rightly ignored those, since they produced no content from you.

 

[GaryDog]

If you'd read all the way to the bottom before posting, you would have seen my comment this morning confirming Westwall's correctness in this matter.

I just noticed, although I am not going to applaud Westwall for making baseless assumptions without knowing all the information.

My wife is a PhD psychologist. I am very adept at reading between the lines, added to the extraordinary length of time he had to serve in prison it was a no brainer. Every study done about the recidivism rates are based on incredibly poor factual data. Thus you get wildly variable estimates of recidivism. However, one of my wifes friends is the head of the Denver area (Arapahoe Country) mental health division, and according to her internal numbers there is a 100% recidivism rate. The reason being the perpetrators truly believe the children love them. There are other studies that show it to be incurable, once again because of the underlying belief that they are completely normal and do not understand that children are incapable of making those sorts of decisions.

There is loads of research available but it is all behind paywalls so I am unable to link you to it.

I see, so you're citing third-hand anecdotal evidence about one county in Colorado. Great.

No, I also mentioned all of the studies that are behind paywalls so can't provide a link. Please read my posts fully instead of trying to pick stupid fights for no reason.

Worked as a minister in the prison system and what you are saying is pretty much what the staff, medical and non medical will tell you. Most of the abuser will tell you they will never be cured. They are a very manipulative group.

I don't know how that's much different from drug addicts or other kinds of criminals. The only difference is we place an ENORMOUS stigma on sexual offenders, so in the event any of them wants to seek help, we're only ready to offer it in the form of "pepper spray" (as one poster suggested), vigilante murder (as others have suggested), or shunning (as is the main thrust of this thread from the OP).

Our country has rejected the idea that people who have been convicted of crimes are human beings. And it has clearly been a philosophy that has failed us.

 

[Iceweasel]

I just noticed, although I am not going to applaud Westwall for making baseless assumptions without knowing all the information.

My wife is a PhD psychologist. I am very adept at reading between the lines, added to the extraordinary length of time he had to serve in prison it was a no brainer. Every study done about the recidivism rates are based on incredibly poor factual data. Thus you get wildly variable estimates of recidivism. However, one of my wifes friends is the head of the Denver area (Arapahoe Country) mental health division, and according to her internal numbers there is a 100% recidivism rate. The reason being the perpetrators truly believe the children love them. There are other studies that show it to be incurable, once again because of the underlying belief that they are completely normal and do not understand that children are incapable of making those sorts of decisions.

There is loads of research available but it is all behind paywalls so I am unable to link you to it.

I see, so you're citing third-hand anecdotal evidence about one county in Colorado. Great.

No, I also mentioned all of the studies that are behind paywalls so can't provide a link. Please read my posts fully instead of trying to pick stupid fights for no reason.

Worked as a minister in the prison system and what you are saying is pretty much what the staff, medical and non medical will tell you. Most of the abuser will tell you they will never be cured. They are a very manipulative group.

I don't know how that's much different from drug addicts or other kinds of criminals. The only difference is we place an ENORMOUS stigma on sexual offenders, so in the event any of them wants to seek help, we're only ready to offer it in the form of "pepper spray" (as one poster suggested), vigilante murder (as others have suggested), or shunning (as is the main thrust of this thread from the OP).

Our country has rejected the idea that people who have been convicted of crimes are human beings. And it has clearly been a philosophy that has failed us.

Nonsense. They are treated pretty well and often given a second chance. and third. And fourth. That doesn't mean we ignore the nature of the crime though, pedophiles need to be kept on a short leash. The dama ge they do may be irreparable and like has been said, may continue the cycle of abuse.

 

[GaryDog]

My wife is a PhD psychologist. I am very adept at reading between the lines, added to the extraordinary length of time he had to serve in prison it was a no brainer. Every study done about the recidivism rates are based on incredibly poor factual data. Thus you get wildly variable estimates of recidivism. However, one of my wifes friends is the head of the Denver area (Arapahoe Country) mental health division, and according to her internal numbers there is a 100% recidivism rate. The reason being the perpetrators truly believe the children love them. There are other studies that show it to be incurable, once again because of the underlying belief that they are completely normal and do not understand that children are incapable of making those sorts of decisions.

There is loads of research available but it is all behind paywalls so I am unable to link you to it.

I see, so you're citing third-hand anecdotal evidence about one county in Colorado. Great.

No, I also mentioned all of the studies that are behind paywalls so can't provide a link. Please read my posts fully instead of trying to pick stupid fights for no reason.

Worked as a minister in the prison system and what you are saying is pretty much what the staff, medical and non medical will tell you. Most of the abuser will tell you they will never be cured. They are a very manipulative group.

I don't know how that's much different from drug addicts or other kinds of criminals. The only difference is we place an ENORMOUS stigma on sexual offenders, so in the event any of them wants to seek help, we're only ready to offer it in the form of "pepper spray" (as one poster suggested), vigilante murder (as others have suggested), or shunning (as is the main thrust of this thread from the OP).

Our country has rejected the idea that people who have been convicted of crimes are human beings. And it has clearly been a philosophy that has failed us.

Nonsense. They are treated pretty well and often given a second chance. and third. And fourth. That doesn't mean we ignore the nature of the crime though, pedophiles need to be kept on a short leash. The dama ge they do may be irreparable and like has been said, may continue the cycle of abuse.

Compared to the resources we provide in terms of treatment for drug addicts and even spousal abuser, do, we do not "treat them pretty well."

 

[westwall]

If you'd read all the way to the bottom before posting, you would have seen my comment this morning confirming Westwall's correctness in this matter.

I just noticed, although I am not going to applaud Westwall for making baseless assumptions without knowing all the information.

My wife is a PhD psychologist. I am very adept at reading between the lines, added to the extraordinary length of time he had to serve in prison it was a no brainer. Every study done about the recidivism rates are based on incredibly poor factual data. Thus you get wildly variable estimates of recidivism. However, one of my wifes friends is the head of the Denver area (Arapahoe Country) mental health division, and according to her internal numbers there is a 100% recidivism rate. The reason being the perpetrators truly believe the children love them. There are other studies that show it to be incurable, once again because of the underlying belief that they are completely normal and do not understand that children are incapable of making those sorts of decisions.

There is loads of research available but it is all behind paywalls so I am unable to link you to it.

I see, so you're citing third-hand anecdotal evidence about one county in Colorado. Great.

No, I also mentioned all of the studies that are behind paywalls so can't provide a link. Please read my posts fully instead of trying to pick stupid fights for no reason.

No, I rightly ignored those, since they produced no content from you.

Only because you're not smart enough to understand the basics. It's OK. You might catch up. Keep trying!

 

[GaryDog]

I just noticed, although I am not going to applaud Westwall for making baseless assumptions without knowing all the information.

My wife is a PhD psychologist. I am very adept at reading between the lines, added to the extraordinary length of time he had to serve in prison it was a no brainer. Every study done about the recidivism rates are based on incredibly poor factual data. Thus you get wildly variable estimates of recidivism. However, one of my wifes friends is the head of the Denver area (Arapahoe Country) mental health division, and according to her internal numbers there is a 100% recidivism rate. The reason being the perpetrators truly believe the children love them. There are other studies that show it to be incurable, once again because of the underlying belief that they are completely normal and do not understand that children are incapable of making those sorts of decisions.

There is loads of research available but it is all behind paywalls so I am unable to link you to it.

I see, so you're citing third-hand anecdotal evidence about one county in Colorado. Great.

No, I also mentioned all of the studies that are behind paywalls so can't provide a link. Please read my posts fully instead of trying to pick stupid fights for no reason.

No, I rightly ignored those, since they produced no content from you.

Only because you're not smart enough to understand the basics. It's OK. You might catch up. Keep trying!

YOU'RE unable to produce the evidence and you put it on me for "not understanding the basics."

LMAO, you're an idiot.

 

[westwall]

My wife is a PhD psychologist. I am very adept at reading between the lines, added to the extraordinary length of time he had to serve in prison it was a no brainer. Every study done about the recidivism rates are based on incredibly poor factual data. Thus you get wildly variable estimates of recidivism. However, one of my wifes friends is the head of the Denver area (Arapahoe Country) mental health division, and according to her internal numbers there is a 100% recidivism rate. The reason being the perpetrators truly believe the children love them. There are other studies that show it to be incurable, once again because of the underlying belief that they are completely normal and do not understand that children are incapable of making those sorts of decisions.

There is loads of research available but it is all behind paywalls so I am unable to link you to it.

I see, so you're citing third-hand anecdotal evidence about one county in Colorado. Great.

No, I also mentioned all of the studies that are behind paywalls so can't provide a link. Please read my posts fully instead of trying to pick stupid fights for no reason.

No, I rightly ignored those, since they produced no content from you.

Only because you're not smart enough to understand the basics. It's OK. You might catch up. Keep trying!

YOU'RE unable to produce the evidence and you put it on me for "not understanding the basics."

LMAO, you're an idiot.

No, I provided you the experience of one professional, and if you wish to pay the fees I will be happy to provide you with the studies.



Here's one I found that is not paywalled.

http://www.paedofiles.com/main/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/12/pedophiles.pdf


Oh, lookey. Here's another one. Not as current as I would like but no pesky pay wall...

"Research has demonstrated that repeat offenders account for a disproportionate amount of crime and that offenders released from prison are arrested at rates 30 to 45 times higher than the general population (Rosenfeld, Wallman, & Formango, 2005). As a result, there is widespread recognition today that recidivism has a direct impact on public safety and that recidivism reduction should be a key goal of the criminal justice system. This is particularly true with regard to crimes that are sexual in nature, given their impact on individual victims and the larger community (see chapter 1, "Incidence and Prevalence of Sexual Offending," in the Adult section)."


Chapter 5: Adult Sex Offender Recidivism | Sex Offender Management Assessment and Planning Initiative

 

[Iceweasel]

I see, so you're citing third-hand anecdotal evidence about one county in Colorado. Great.

No, I also mentioned all of the studies that are behind paywalls so can't provide a link. Please read my posts fully instead of trying to pick stupid fights for no reason.

Worked as a minister in the prison system and what you are saying is pretty much what the staff, medical and non medical will tell you. Most of the abuser will tell you they will never be cured. They are a very manipulative group.

I don't know how that's much different from drug addicts or other kinds of criminals. The only difference is we place an ENORMOUS stigma on sexual offenders, so in the event any of them wants to seek help, we're only ready to offer it in the form of "pepper spray" (as one poster suggested), vigilante murder (as others have suggested), or shunning (as is the main thrust of this thread from the OP).

Our country has rejected the idea that people who have been convicted of crimes are human beings. And it has clearly been a philosophy that has failed us.

Nonsense. They are treated pretty well and often given a second chance. and third. And fourth. That doesn't mean we ignore the nature of the crime though, pedophiles need to be kept on a short leash. The dama ge they do may be irreparable and like has been said, may continue the cycle of abuse.

Compared to the resources we provide in terms of treatment for drug addicts and even spousal abuser, do, we do not "treat them pretty well."

Sure we do. They aren't curable and we don't pump bullets into their brain pans like we ought to.

 

[GaryDog]

No, I also mentioned all of the studies that are behind paywalls so can't provide a link. Please read my posts fully instead of trying to pick stupid fights for no reason.

Worked as a minister in the prison system and what you are saying is pretty much what the staff, medical and non medical will tell you. Most of the abuser will tell you they will never be cured. They are a very manipulative group.

I don't know how that's much different from drug addicts or other kinds of criminals. The only difference is we place an ENORMOUS stigma on sexual offenders, so in the event any of them wants to seek help, we're only ready to offer it in the form of "pepper spray" (as one poster suggested), vigilante murder (as others have suggested), or shunning (as is the main thrust of this thread from the OP).

Our country has rejected the idea that people who have been convicted of crimes are human beings. And it has clearly been a philosophy that has failed us.

Nonsense. They are treated pretty well and often given a second chance. and third. And fourth. That doesn't mean we ignore the nature of the crime though, pedophiles need to be kept on a short leash. The dama ge they do may be irreparable and like has been said, may continue the cycle of abuse.

Compared to the resources we provide in terms of treatment for drug addicts and even spousal abuser, do, we do not "treat them pretty well."

Sure we do. They aren't curable and we don't pump bullets into their brain pans like we ought to.

And what's your expertise in this matter? Judging by your choice of words, my guess is you're no smarter than the OP.

 

[Iceweasel]

Worked as a minister in the prison system and what you are saying is pretty much what the staff, medical and non medical will tell you. Most of the abuser will tell you they will never be cured. They are a very manipulative group.

I don't know how that's much different from drug addicts or other kinds of criminals. The only difference is we place an ENORMOUS stigma on sexual offenders, so in the event any of them wants to seek help, we're only ready to offer it in the form of "pepper spray" (as one poster suggested), vigilante murder (as others have suggested), or shunning (as is the main thrust of this thread from the OP).

Our country has rejected the idea that people who have been convicted of crimes are human beings. And it has clearly been a philosophy that has failed us.

Nonsense. They are treated pretty well and often given a second chance. and third. And fourth. That doesn't mean we ignore the nature of the crime though, pedophiles need to be kept on a short leash. The dama ge they do may be irreparable and like has been said, may continue the cycle of abuse.

Compared to the resources we provide in terms of treatment for drug addicts and even spousal abuser, do, we do not "treat them pretty well."

Sure we do. They aren't curable and we don't pump bullets into their brain pans like we ought to.

And what's your expertise in this matter? Judging by your choice of words, my guess is you're no smarter than the OP.

What's yours? Personal experience? I've heard from many sources for many years they MAY alter behavior but the desire stays.

 

[GaryDog]

I don't know how that's much different from drug addicts or other kinds of criminals. The only difference is we place an ENORMOUS stigma on sexual offenders, so in the event any of them wants to seek help, we're only ready to offer it in the form of "pepper spray" (as one poster suggested), vigilante murder (as others have suggested), or shunning (as is the main thrust of this thread from the OP).

Our country has rejected the idea that people who have been convicted of crimes are human beings. And it has clearly been a philosophy that has failed us.

Nonsense. They are treated pretty well and often given a second chance. and third. And fourth. That doesn't mean we ignore the nature of the crime though, pedophiles need to be kept on a short leash. The dama ge they do may be irreparable and like has been said, may continue the cycle of abuse.

Compared to the resources we provide in terms of treatment for drug addicts and even spousal abuser, do, we do not "treat them pretty well."

Sure we do. They aren't curable and we don't pump bullets into their brain pans like we ought to.

And what's your expertise in this matter? Judging by your choice of words, my guess is you're no smarter than the OP.

What's yours? Personal experience? I've heard from many sources for many years they MAY alter behavior but the desire stays.

So in other words it's exactly like drug and alcohol addiction. Thank you for conceding the point finally

 

[Dragonlady]

Any function he attends I simply would not. He's a pariah and he will do nothing but harm to your family.

He is only a pariah when you have self righteous crusaders acting like they are any better.

This guys crimes all seem like they should be misdemeanors.

Sex offences against children from a photographer are NOT misdemeanours.

 

[Onyx]

Sex offences against children from a photographer are NOT misdemeanours.

That information was not presented when my comment was made.

 

[Papageorgio]

I see, so you're citing third-hand anecdotal evidence about one county in Colorado. Great.

No, I also mentioned all of the studies that are behind paywalls so can't provide a link. Please read my posts fully instead of trying to pick stupid fights for no reason.

Worked as a minister in the prison system and what you are saying is pretty much what the staff, medical and non medical will tell you. Most of the abuser will tell you they will never be cured. They are a very manipulative group.

I don't know how that's much different from drug addicts or other kinds of criminals. The only difference is we place an ENORMOUS stigma on sexual offenders, so in the event any of them wants to seek help, we're only ready to offer it in the form of "pepper spray" (as one poster suggested), vigilante murder (as others have suggested), or shunning (as is the main thrust of this thread from the OP).

Our country has rejected the idea that people who have been convicted of crimes are human beings. And it has clearly been a philosophy that has failed us.

Nonsense. They are treated pretty well and often given a second chance. and third. And fourth. That doesn't mean we ignore the nature of the crime though, pedophiles need to be kept on a short leash. The dama ge they do may be irreparable and like has been said, may continue the cycle of abuse.

Compared to the resources we provide in terms of treatment for drug addicts and even spousal abuser, do, we do not "treat them pretty well."

We treat them fine, they get extensive counseling. The court system tries to rehab this group, how ever sexual deviants very rarely reform because the things that sexually excites them, power and control, does not change inside their minds.

 

[Onyx]

We treat them fine, they get extensive counseling. The court system tries to rehab this group, how ever sexual deviants very rarely reform because the things that sexually excites them, power and control, does not change inside their minds.

All sex is based on power and control.

The problem is not their psyche. It is the fact that they have proven that their sexual desires outweigh their empathy for the victim.

 

[esthermoon]

I got word from my mother this evening that the Black Sheep of our family (my father's youngest brother) will likely be getting out of prison next April.

If so, he will have served 8 years of a 15 year sentence for multiple Child Endangerment and Invasion of Privacy charges he plead guilty to in 2009. These were related to a home photography business he ran. He will have to register as a sex offender and will be on lifetime parole.

Some of you know that my wife was raped and sexually assaulted on multiple occasions as a pre-teen. She still suffers the PTSD effects of those incidents even after nearly a decade of counseling (she repressed the memories for over a decade).

Assuming my uncle is released, there is a very high probability that he will be at certain family events that my wife and I also attend.

My wife has made it extremely clear that she wants nothing to do with him. I agree and feel the same way. However, my mother has made it very clear that she wants and expects me (not my wife) to at least be cordial to him at these events. I'd rather simply avoid him completely. If for no other reason than keeping me from causing a scene when I kick his ass.

What do you folks think? Any advice or suggestions on how to handle this sort of situation?

We all make mistakes.
Treat him like you would treat another person.
At the end he's not Charles Manson

 

[Onyx]

At the end he's not Charles Manson

Not a bad guy by the way. Probably would be one of the best folk artists of our time if he had some good recording equipment in prison.