How many state solution ?

[montelatici]

Well, if you want to believe the propaganda (which does not jive with official statistics) there will be so many Jews, there is no problem with enfranchising all the people under Israeli control. Problem solved.

 

[Billo_Really]

Nonsense. simply because didn't engage in the thread drift doesn't mean the position is false.

I'start the thread and we can take it up there

Oh and its people like myself that are the pals only chance. I am 100% for a peaceful solution conducted in full cooperation with both peoples, I just done't see the pals having any leadership which could bring them to that place at this time and in the mean time I'm all for peaceful restrictions and deportations which in the end result in less violence and criminal behavior.

The problem with that logic is you're not questioning the Israeli leadership.

 

[Roudy]

Well, if you want to believe the propaganda (which does not jive with official statistics) there will be so many Jews, there is no problem with enfranchising all the people under Israeli control. Problem solved.

No thanks. I'll take a Columbia University research, than your false propaganda and crap.

In two to three generations Israel will annex a Jewish majority West Bank.

Dig!



Technical Notes and Sources

Figure 1: Less immigration, more natural growth
Source: Statistical Abstract of Israel, different years (1992-2012), Table 2.4, “Source of
population growth by district, population group and religion.” Settlers reside in the district of
Judah and Samaria. Statistical Abstract of Israel 2015
Figure 2: Ultra Orthodox Trump Card
Number of all settlers in 1991 and 2011: Statistical Abstract of Israel, different years (1992-
2012). Table 2.4.
Number of Ultra Orthodox Settlers is the number of people in Ultra Orthodox settlements (4,620
in 1991 and 100,880 in 2011). Source for population in Israeli communities:
??????? ??????
Data Sources and estimation method for 2020:
All (445,782): Our calculations, assuming that the settler population in 2011 (325,100) will
increase by 3.57% per year until 2020. 3.57% is the average natural growth rate (births minus
deaths) in the district of Judah and Samaria during 2009, 2010 and 2011. Source for natural
growth of settler population: our calculations, based on information in Statistical Abstract of
Israel, 2010, 2011, 2012, Table 2.4.
Ultra Orthodox (170,435): Our calculation, assuming that the Ultra Orthodox settler population
in 2011 will increase by 6% per year until 2020. 6% is the latest estimate (2001) for the natural
growth rate of all Ultra Orthodox in Israel. Source: Gurovich, Norma and Eilat Cohen-Kastro.
2004. “Ultra-Orthodox Jews Geographic Distribution and Demographic, Social and Economic
Characteristics of the Ultra-Orthodox Jewish Population in Israel 1996–2001,” Working Papers
Series No. 5, Israel Central Bureau of Statistics. Page 54.
Other settlers (275,348): All settlers minus Ultra orthodox settlers.
Figure 3: High Birthrate and Natural Growth Rates
a. Natural Growth Rates
All Israeli Jews and all Settlers: Our calculation of average natural growth (births minus deaths)
for 2010, 2011, and 2012 for all Israeli Jews (1.48%), and for the district of Judah and Samaria
(3.57%).
Source: Statistical Abstract of Israel, 2010, 2011, 2012, Table 2.4.
Ultra Orthodox Settlers. Gurovich and Cohen-Kastro 2004 above.
Palestinians: Our calculations of average growth in 2008, 2009, and 2010. Source: International
Data Base, US Census http://www.census.gov/population/international/data/idb/region.php
b. Number of Children:
Palestinians: Total Fertility Rate (TFR) for 2010. Source: same as above.
All Jews and all settlers: Statistical Abstract of Israel 2012, Table 3.11. Data are for TFR in 2011.
All Ultra Orthodox: Hleihel, Ahmad. 2011. “Fertility among Jewish and Muslim women in Israel,
by level of religiosity, 1979-2009.” Working paper number 60, June 2011. Page 32.
Ultra Orthodox Settlers: The TFR (7.7) is the average for TFR in Betar Ilit (7.5) and Modiyin Ilit
(8.2), where the vast majority of Ultra Orthodox settlers reside, adjusted for a slight estimated
decline between 2007 and 2011. Source: Central Bureau of Statistics, Press release, Patterns of
Fertility in 2007. Number 231/20082007, page 5 (in Hebrew).

 

[Boston1]

Nonsense. simply because didn't engage in the thread drift doesn't mean the position is false.

I'start the thread and we can take it up there

Oh and its people like myself that are the pals only chance. I am 100% for a peaceful solution conducted in full cooperation with both peoples, I just done't see the pals having any leadership which could bring them to that place at this time and in the mean time I'm all for peaceful restrictions and deportations which in the end result in less violence and criminal behavior.

The problem with that logic is you're not questioning the Israeli leadership.

While I would never exonerate the Israeli leadership of any number of problems they do form an effective governance of the Israeli people and are able to both initiate and honor foreign policy agreements.

Unlike their palestinain ( and I hesitate to use the term ) counterparts.

 

[Billo_Really]

While I would never exonerate the Israeli leadership of any number of problems they do form an effective governance of the Israeli people and are able to both initiate and honor foreign policy agreements.

Unlike their palestinain ( and I hesitate to use the term ) counterparts.

The Israeli government is putting Jews in danger.

 

[montelatici]

Well, if you want to believe the propaganda (which does not jive with official statistics) there will be so many Jews, there is no problem with enfranchising all the people under Israeli control. Problem solved.

No thanks. I'll take a Columbia University research, than your false propaganda and crap.

In two to three generations Israel will annex a Jewish majority West Bank.

Dig!



Technical Notes and Sources

Figure 1: Less immigration, more natural growth
Source: Statistical Abstract of Israel, different years (1992-2012), Table 2.4, “Source of
population growth by district, population group and religion.” Settlers reside in the district of
Judah and Samaria. Statistical Abstract of Israel 2015
Figure 2: Ultra Orthodox Trump Card
Number of all settlers in 1991 and 2011: Statistical Abstract of Israel, different years (1992-
2012). Table 2.4.
Number of Ultra Orthodox Settlers is the number of people in Ultra Orthodox settlements (4,620
in 1991 and 100,880 in 2011). Source for population in Israeli communities:
??????? ??????
Data Sources and estimation method for 2020:
All (445,782): Our calculations, assuming that the settler population in 2011 (325,100) will
increase by 3.57% per year until 2020. 3.57% is the average natural growth rate (births minus
deaths) in the district of Judah and Samaria during 2009, 2010 and 2011. Source for natural
growth of settler population: our calculations, based on information in Statistical Abstract of
Israel, 2010, 2011, 2012, Table 2.4.
Ultra Orthodox (170,435): Our calculation, assuming that the Ultra Orthodox settler population
in 2011 will increase by 6% per year until 2020. 6% is the latest estimate (2001) for the natural
growth rate of all Ultra Orthodox in Israel. Source: Gurovich, Norma and Eilat Cohen-Kastro.
2004. “Ultra-Orthodox Jews Geographic Distribution and Demographic, Social and Economic
Characteristics of the Ultra-Orthodox Jewish Population in Israel 1996–2001,” Working Papers
Series No. 5, Israel Central Bureau of Statistics. Page 54.
Other settlers (275,348): All settlers minus Ultra orthodox settlers.
Figure 3: High Birthrate and Natural Growth Rates
a. Natural Growth Rates
All Israeli Jews and all Settlers: Our calculation of average natural growth (births minus deaths)
for 2010, 2011, and 2012 for all Israeli Jews (1.48%), and for the district of Judah and Samaria
(3.57%).
Source: Statistical Abstract of Israel, 2010, 2011, 2012, Table 2.4.
Ultra Orthodox Settlers. Gurovich and Cohen-Kastro 2004 above.
Palestinians: Our calculations of average growth in 2008, 2009, and 2010. Source: International
Data Base, US Census http://www.census.gov/population/international/data/idb/region.php
b. Number of Children:
Palestinians: Total Fertility Rate (TFR) for 2010. Source: same as above.
All Jews and all settlers: Statistical Abstract of Israel 2012, Table 3.11. Data are for TFR in 2011.
All Ultra Orthodox: Hleihel, Ahmad. 2011. “Fertility among Jewish and Muslim women in Israel,
by level of religiosity, 1979-2009.” Working paper number 60, June 2011. Page 32.
Ultra Orthodox Settlers: The TFR (7.7) is the average for TFR in Betar Ilit (7.5) and Modiyin Ilit
(8.2), where the vast majority of Ultra Orthodox settlers reside, adjusted for a slight estimated
decline between 2007 and 2011. Source: Central Bureau of Statistics, Press release, Patterns of
Fertility in 2007. Number 231/20082007, page 5 (in Hebrew).

The study you quote says nothing about the non-Jewish versus the Jewish population on land under Israel control in the future. I don't understand why you provided that information. Ultra Orthodox rabbit breeding won't be of much help, there aren't that many ultra orthodox Jews. Plus, the normal Israeli has nothing in common with those fanatics.

But even the Israeli statisticians have determined, the non-Jews already exceed the number on Jews in lands controlled by Israel.

 

[Boston1]

While I would never exonerate the Israeli leadership of any number of problems they do form an effective governance of the Israeli people and are able to both initiate and honor foreign policy agreements.

Unlike their palestinain ( and I hesitate to use the term ) counterparts.

The Israeli government is putting Jews in danger.

That would be debatable. What isn't debatable is that even the wildly bias UNHRC has accused the palestinians of using human shields, which is about the most egregious example of a government placing its own in danger I can think of.

 

[montelatici]

"UNHRC has accused the palestinians of using human shields,"

Typical Hasbara lie. There is no UNHRC.

The UNHCR, which exists, has never accused the Palestinians of using human shields.

 

[Roudy]

Here we go, you've made this claim a thousand times and I've posted evidence of foreign journalists and UN accusing the Palestinians of using human shields, and using UN schools, hospitals, mosques, and apartment buildings as rocket strorage and launch sites. Yet you keep posting this crap over and over.

You are simply a mentally ill Jew hating full of shit moron!

 

[Boston1]

Agreed Roudy, except for that last bit.

I'm going to assume you are talking to Montie, and I'm sure he's likely deserving of the verbal lashing, he presents some pretty twisted views and with zero supporting evidence. On the contrary what links he does provide invariably refute his own nonsense.

But just as the Israeli's at home have taken the high ground and are using every and all peaceful means to thwart the violent measures consistently employed by the palestinians; we here should do the same. I believe a polite yet compelling rebuttal can and will convince the world if not the palestinians that Israel would prefer peace. While I'd love to rave and rail at some of the more ridiculous claims like what Montie consistently does ( which is another reason he's on ignore ) but what good would it do ? Other than convince someone maybe reading along, who might be on the fence, that I'm no better than the liars and killers and those who encourage yet more violence.

Rise above it Roudy, just don't give up the fight.

 

[Roudy]

Agreed Roudy, except for that last bit.

I'm going to assume you are talking to Montie, and I'm sure he's likely deserving of the verbal lashing, he presents some pretty twisted views and with zero supporting evidence. On the contrary what links he does provide invariably refute his own nonsense.

But just as the Israeli's at home have taken the high ground and are using every and all peaceful means to thwart the violent measures consistently employed by the palestinians; we here should do the same. I believe a polite yet compelling rebuttal can and will convince the world if not the palestinians that Israel would prefer peace. While I'd love to rave and rail at some of the more ridiculous claims like what Montie consistently does ( which is another reason he's on ignore ) but what good would it do ? Other than convince someone maybe reading along, who might be on the fence, that I'm no better than the liars and killers and those who encourage yet more violence.

Rise above it Roudy, just don't give up the fight.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Billo_Really]

That would be debatable. What isn't debatable is that even the wildly bias UNHRC has accused the palestinians of using human shields, which is about the most egregious example of a government placing its own in danger I can think of.

There has been no evidence proving the Pals use human shields. Your statement is bullshit. The Israeli's, on the other hand, are a little more guilty...

Here's one where the IDF is using a couple of Palestinian teens as human shields while they take a break in their Humvee.




But the more popular use of human shields by the IDF, is with their use of "Johnnies".

Testimony 1 – Human Shield​

People are called “Johnnie. They’re Palestinian civilians” in Gaza neighborhoods. In checking out houses, “we send the neighbor in, the ‘Johnnie,’

Human shields were also used to check for booby-traps and perform other services. “Sometimes the force would enter while placing rifle barrels on a civilian’s shoulder, advancing into the house and using him as a human shield. Commanders said these were the instructions and we had to do it.”​

 

[Billo_Really]

Agreed Roudy, except for that last bit.

I'm going to assume you are talking to Montie, and I'm sure he's likely deserving of the verbal lashing, he presents some pretty twisted views and with zero supporting evidence.

That right there is a lie. You're full of shit, dude.

On the contrary what links he does provide invariably refute his own nonsense.

And there's another lie. You want me to prove it?

Provide the specific post where his evidence refuted his claim.

But just as the Israeli's at home have taken the high ground and are using every and all peaceful means to thwart the violent measures consistently employed by the palestinians; we here should do the same.

You gotta be shittin' me?

Is shooting at people fishing, peaceful?

Is shooting at people farming, peaceful?

Is maintaining a brutal occupation for almost half a century, peaceful?

I believe a polite yet compelling rebuttal can and will convince the world if not the palestinians that Israel would prefer peace.

Is genocide okay, as long as you're polite about it?

While I'd love to rave and rail at some of the more ridiculous claims like what Montie consistently does ( which is another reason he's on ignore ) but what good would it do ?

I don't have anyone on "ignore". I don't think in my 10 years of blogging, have I ever put someone on "ignore". Because I can handle what people say.

Other than convince someone maybe reading along, who might be on the fence, that I'm no better than the liars and killers and those who encourage yet more violence.

You should come down off that horse of yours, because you are definitely a liar.

Rise above it Roudy, just don't give up the fight.

Saying that to Roudy, is like saying Charles Manson is pro-life.

 

[Roudy]

The evidence of Palestinians using human shields throughout the years is so constant and overwhelming it isn't even debatable. It is standard modus operandi for Islamists all over the world to do that, and Palestinians haven't been any different!

True story

 

[Roudy]

Agreed Roudy, except for that last bit.

I'm going to assume you are talking to Montie, and I'm sure he's likely deserving of the verbal lashing, he presents some pretty twisted views and with zero supporting evidence.

That right there is a lie. You're full of shit, dude.

On the contrary what links he does provide invariably refute his own nonsense.

And there's another lie. You want me to prove it?

Provide the specific post where his evidence refuted his claim.

But just as the Israeli's at home have taken the high ground and are using every and all peaceful means to thwart the violent measures consistently employed by the palestinians; we here should do the same.

You gotta be shittin' me?

Is shooting at people fishing, peaceful?

Is shooting at people farming, peaceful?

Is maintaining a brutal occupation for almost half a century, peaceful?

I believe a polite yet compelling rebuttal can and will convince the world if not the palestinians that Israel would prefer peace.

Is genocide okay, as long as you're polite about it?

While I'd love to rave and rail at some of the more ridiculous claims like what Montie consistently does ( which is another reason he's on ignore ) but what good would it do ?

I don't have anyone on "ignore". I don't think in my 10 years of blogging, have I ever put someone on "ignore". Because I can handle what people say.

Other than convince someone maybe reading along, who might be on the fence, that I'm no better than the liars and killers and those who encourage yet more violence.

You should come down off that horse of yours, because you are definitely a liar.

Rise above it Roudy, just don't give up the fight.

Saying that to Roudy, is like saying Charles Manson is pro-life.

Hee hee hee...."genocode". This peaceful, loving, halo wearing Palestinian population that is never to blame for anything according to the terrorist worshippers, has multiplied faster than rats and they claim "genocide"...ya gotta love it!

 

[MJB12741]

What a great way to get Palestinian children killed. Oh Hamas, who elected you?

Palestinians Admit Using Human Shields

 

[montelatici]

The evidence of Palestinians using human shields throughout the years is so constant and overwhelming it isn't even debatable. It is standard modus operandi for Islamists all over the world to do that, and Palestinians haven't been any different!

True story

The only documented case of the use of human shields is the use of Palestinian civilians by the Israelis as human shields.

"what appears to be the first documented case of a ‘human shield’ used by the Israeli military during its invasion of the eastern Gaza town of Khuza’a.

Abu Raida’s case was documented by Defense for Children International-Palestine, which released a statement Thursday based on the affidavit it collected."



Palestinian teen: I was used as a human shield in Gaza | +972 Magazine

 

[MJB12741]

What a great way to get Palestinian children killed. Oh Hamas, who elected you?

Palestinians Admit Using Human Shields

It's called Palestinian Mentality.

 

[Boston1]

That would be debatable. What isn't debatable is that even the wildly bias UNHRC has accused the palestinians of using human shields, which is about the most egregious example of a government placing its own in danger I can think of.

There has been no evidence proving the Pals use human shields. Your statement is bullshit. The Israeli's, on the other hand, are a little more guilty...

Here's one where the IDF is using a couple of Palestinian teens as human shields while they take a break in their Humvee.




But the more popular use of human shields by the IDF, is with their use of "Johnnies".

Testimony 1 – Human Shield​

People are called “Johnnie. They’re Palestinian civilians” in Gaza neighborhoods. In checking out houses, “we send the neighbor in, the ‘Johnnie,’

Human shields were also used to check for booby-traps and perform other services. “Sometimes the force would enter while placing rifle barrels on a civilian’s shoulder, advancing into the house and using him as a human shield. Commanders said these were the instructions and we had to do it.”​

A blatant lie, I don't know why you bother with this kinda stuff. We all know the palestinians are actively engaged in a propaganda war against the Israeli's and will dream up just about anything to try and counter all the bad press they themselves are getting

Hamas DID use schools and hospitals in Gaza Strip as ...

Conclusive Proof Hamas Uses Palestinians as Human Shields

Hamas Admits to Using Civilians as Human Shields | The ...

Hamas Caught Using Human Shields in Gaza - IDF Blog

but even if you refuse to study the issue, the simple reality is that The palestinian terrorists hide behind the skirts of their own woman and children when they refuse to wear a uniform and instead hide within the civilian population using schools, hospitals, ambulances, mosques and other areas generally for civilian use only as staging areas to conduct military operations.

There's a reason the palestinian terrorists only ever attack soft civilian targets, They simply don't have the courage to act within the legal conventions of war.

Israeli solders on the other hand proudly wear their uniforms and act within both humanitarian law and the geneva conventions.

 

[Boston1]

Agreed Roudy, except for that last bit.

I'm going to assume you are talking to Montie, and I'm sure he's likely deserving of the verbal lashing, he presents some pretty twisted views and with zero supporting evidence.

That right there is a lie. You're full of shit, dude.

On the contrary what links he does provide invariably refute his own nonsense.

And there's another lie. You want me to prove it?

Provide the specific post where his evidence refuted his claim.

But just as the Israeli's at home have taken the high ground and are using every and all peaceful means to thwart the violent measures consistently employed by the palestinians; we here should do the same.

You gotta be shittin' me?

Is shooting at people fishing, peaceful?

Is shooting at people farming, peaceful?

Is maintaining a brutal occupation for almost half a century, peaceful?

I believe a polite yet compelling rebuttal can and will convince the world if not the palestinians that Israel would prefer peace.

Is genocide okay, as long as you're polite about it?

While I'd love to rave and rail at some of the more ridiculous claims like what Montie consistently does ( which is another reason he's on ignore ) but what good would it do ?

I don't have anyone on "ignore". I don't think in my 10 years of blogging, have I ever put someone on "ignore". Because I can handle what people say.

Other than convince someone maybe reading along, who might be on the fence, that I'm no better than the liars and killers and those who encourage yet more violence.

You should come down off that horse of yours, because you are definitely a liar.

Rise above it Roudy, just don't give up the fight.

Saying that to Roudy, is like saying Charles Manson is pro-life.

And again not one single reference to support your nonsense.