How many Navy Seals have shootouts while breastfeeding a baby? This woman did, and she won...

[JoeB131]

other countries that outlaw gun ownership murdered their unarmed civilians in the millions.....12 million in Europe, 25 million in Russia, 70 million in China, 1/3 of the population in Cambodia....

Okay, let's look at that.

12 million in europe when every country was armed and at war. NOpe. Doesn't count.

25 million in Russia, but only if you count the Russian Civil War, the Polish-RUssian War and the Ukranian Famine- Two many guns in the first two, and guns wouldn't help anyone grow food in the third.

China- NOwhere near 70 million, and that was at the end of 30 years of Civil War. Again- Lack of guns not the problem. Lack of humanity was.

Cambodia- We armed the Government, China armed the rebels. Lots of guns there.

So yeah, Civil Wars are really, really bad things. Guns don't make them any better for the side that loses.

 

[JoeB131]

and Europe sent troops to Rwanda to stop the genocide their...and the troops stood by and did nothing as 800,000 people were murdered with machetes.....

Yeah, tell me was it the Hutus killing the Tutsis, or the Tutsi killing the Hutus? Without googling it, tell me which one.

Again- civil wars are bad. Guns don't make them better.

 

[BULLDOG]

So....the common nonsense from anti gun extremists is that normal people can never defend themselves against criminals...and they say this despite the fact.....I repeat, the fact, that normal people use guns every day to stop violent criminal attack...

This woman....who is not a Navy Seal or Delta Operator......fought off guys who shot at her while she was breastfeeding her baby...

New Mother Feeding Baby Pulls Gun, Fights Off Home Invaders - Bearing Arms - Guns Saving Lives, North Carolina

On the surface, 21-year-old Semantha Bunce doesn’t appear to be much different than any other new mom, but when home invaders kicked in her door as she fed her four-month-old son, she showed the soul of a warrior as she took the fight to those who dared to put her family in danger.

Bunce met the home invaders head-on in a gun battle, driving them from her home. Even though she took two hits in the exchange of gunfire, she managed to climb back up the stairs and check on her son before she dialed 911 and began taking care of her wounds before the ambulance arrived:

Bunce met the intruders at her bedroom door and when the men opened fire on her in the stairwell area, she fired back, her husband said.

“I think it was a shock to the intruders just as much as it was to her,” said Paul Bunce, her husband.

Paul told Channel 9 his wife is a combat medic with the National Guard. He believes her training allowed her to stay mentally focused and calm during what was a fight for her life.

“They’ve got a long journey,” said one neighbor outside the Bunce family’s home.

Since the shooting, neighbors have embraced the family. Many stopped by the house and offered their thoughts and prayers for a mother who risked it all to protect her own.

Family members said Semantha will need at least one more surgery.

I’m terrified to think of what these violent criminals might have done to this young mother and her child if she had not been able to defend herself or the skills to start treating her injuries.

The young combat medic will likely go back into surgery tomorrow for an abdominal wound suffered in the gunfight.

One of her fellow soldiers has set up a GoFundMe in hopes of helping pay Semantha’s medical bills.

But...I keep getting told that 1) these types of crimes never happen because the gun grabber I am debating at the time has never had it happen to them...

And 2) normal people can't handle themselves in a fight with a gun....and no...a medic in the National Guard is not a Navy Seal.....I have known medics and gun handling is not their primary focus....they will qualify with their rifles once a year.....and they might, might, qualify with their sidearms too.....but again, they are not trained gunmen...

Why are special operaotrs mixed up with this?

Because guys like joe and the others imply that normal people cannot use guns effectively to defend themselves…that the criminal will always get the better of any armed citizen and that only the police and military should be allowed access to guns.

This woman is a medic, not an infantry soldier. She has minimal military training with firearms and we don't know how regular her unit would have been in even pulling their weapons out of the armory…..

I was in the National Guard in the Infantry and we had medics as well…..they spent their training time with medical training, and qualified once a year….now she may have been over seas…but she is still a medic, not a fighting soldier….

Qualifying once a year is more training than lots of gun nuts will ever get.

 

[2aguy]

The FBI table 8 puts gun murders at 8,124 for 2014....

You can keep repeating that , but I'm still not buying it. Fact is, they won't know what the real numbers are for 2014 for a while yet. But We DO know what the numbers are for previous years, and they are always north of 11K.

2013: 11,208
2012: 11,622
2011: 11,068
2010: 11,078
2009: 11,493
2008: 12,179
2007: 12,632


CDC WISQARS.2014.‘Injury Mortality Reports 1999 and Onwards (USA).’ Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System / CDC WISQARS.Atlanta:National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention / CDC,1 January. (Q1377)Full Citation

20.
Hoyert, Donna L. and Jiaquan Xu.2012.‘Deaths: Preliminary Data for 2011 - Selected Causes.’ National Vital Statistics Reports (NVSS).Hyattsville, MD:US Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control Prevention, Division of Vital Statistics,10 October. (Q6492)Full Citation

UNODC.2014.‘Homicides and Gun Homicides in the United States.’ Global Study on Homicide 2013: Trends, Context, Data.Vienna:United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC),10 April. (Q8902)Full Citation

I use the FBI homicide table, they already have 2014 final homicide stats at 8,124.....even using the CDC numbers ...gun murders are going down, not up...and in a country of over 320 million people 11,208 gun murders, where the majority are criminals shooting criminals in inner cities is not a problem.

1.5 million people use guns to stop crime each year...some put the number at 2 million....

11,208, CDC or 8,124 FBI vs. 1.5 million defensive uses...which number is bigger?

 

[2aguy]

and Europe sent troops to Rwanda to stop the genocide their...and the troops stood by and did nothing as 800,000 people were murdered with machetes.....

Yeah, tell me was it the Hutus killing the Tutsis, or the Tutsi killing the Hutus? Without googling it, tell me which one.

Again- civil wars are bad. Guns don't make them better.

800,000 people were murdered by their government as Europeans stood around, on the ground specifically deployed to stop it....and they did nothing......

 

[2aguy]

The FBI table 8 puts gun murders at 8,124 for 2014....

You can keep repeating that , but I'm still not buying it. Fact is, they won't know what the real numbers are for 2014 for a while yet. But We DO know what the numbers are for previous years, and they are always north of 11K.

2013: 11,208
2012: 11,622
2011: 11,068
2010: 11,078
2009: 11,493
2008: 12,179
2007: 12,632


CDC WISQARS.2014.‘Injury Mortality Reports 1999 and Onwards (USA).’ Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System / CDC WISQARS.Atlanta:National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention / CDC,1 January. (Q1377)Full Citation

20.
Hoyert, Donna L. and Jiaquan Xu.2012.‘Deaths: Preliminary Data for 2011 - Selected Causes.’ National Vital Statistics Reports (NVSS).Hyattsville, MD:US Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control Prevention, Division of Vital Statistics,10 October. (Q6492)Full Citation

UNODC.2014.‘Homicides and Gun Homicides in the United States.’ Global Study on Homicide 2013: Trends, Context, Data.Vienna:United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC),10 April. (Q8902)Full Citation

FBI table on gun murder.....the law enforcement branch....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

 

[2aguy]

The FBI table 8 puts gun murders at 8,124 for 2014....

You can keep repeating that , but I'm still not buying it. Fact is, they won't know what the real numbers are for 2014 for a while yet. But We DO know what the numbers are for previous years, and they are always north of 11K.

2013: 11,208
2012: 11,622
2011: 11,068
2010: 11,078
2009: 11,493
2008: 12,179
2007: 12,632


CDC WISQARS.2014.‘Injury Mortality Reports 1999 and Onwards (USA).’ Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System / CDC WISQARS.Atlanta:National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention / CDC,1 January. (Q1377)Full Citation

20.
Hoyert, Donna L. and Jiaquan Xu.2012.‘Deaths: Preliminary Data for 2011 - Selected Causes.’ National Vital Statistics Reports (NVSS).Hyattsville, MD:US Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control Prevention, Division of Vital Statistics,10 October. (Q6492)Full Citation

UNODC.2014.‘Homicides and Gun Homicides in the United States.’ Global Study on Homicide 2013: Trends, Context, Data.Vienna:United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC),10 April. (Q8902)Full Citation

And of all the murders......

Most are criminals murdering other criminals.....

Most murder victims in big cities have criminal record

A review of murder statistics across America shows that in many large cities, up to 90 percent of the victims have criminal records.
-------
The report concludes that “of the 2011 homicide victims, 77 percent (66) had a least one prior arrest and of the known 2011 homicide suspects 90 percent (74) had at least one prior arrest.”
----------


In early 2012, after pressure put on the police by murder victims’ families in New Orleans, the police department stopped revealing whether or not the murder victim had a prior record.

---------------

Though data is no longer published in Baltimore, USA Today reported in 2007 that 91 percent of the then-205 murder victims in the city between Jan. 1 and Aug. 31, 2007, had criminal records.

---------
A WND review of the Philadelphia Police Department Murder and Shooting Analysis for 2011 shows a similar pattern to that of other large cities in America – a majority of the murder victims have prior records.



--------
In Philadelphia in 2011, of 324 murders, 81 percent (263) of the victims had at least one prior arrest; 62 percent (164) had been arrested for a violent crime prior to their murder.

----------

In Newark, N.J., long considered one of America’s most dangerous cities, 85 percent of the 165 murder victims between 2009 and 2010 had serious arrest histories.

Anthony Braga, a professor with the Rutgers-Newark School of Criminal Justice, told the Newark Star-Ledger that 85 percent of 165 murder victims in Newark between 2009 and 2010 had been arrested at least once before they were killed.

Those victims, he said, had, on average, 10 prior arrests on their criminal records.

A WND review of the Chicago Police Department Murder Analysis reports from 2003 to 2011 provides a statistical breakdown of the demographics of both the victims and offenders in the 4,265 murders in Chicago over that time period.

Of the victims of murder in Chicago from 2003 to 2011, an average of 77 percent had a prior arrest history, with a high of 79 percent of the 436 murdered in Chicago in 2010 having arrest histories.



***************
*****************

 

[2aguy]

The FBI table 8 puts gun murders at 8,124 for 2014....

You can keep repeating that , but I'm still not buying it. Fact is, they won't know what the real numbers are for 2014 for a while yet. But We DO know what the numbers are for previous years, and they are always north of 11K.

2013: 11,208
2012: 11,622
2011: 11,068
2010: 11,078
2009: 11,493
2008: 12,179
2007: 12,632


CDC WISQARS.2014.‘Injury Mortality Reports 1999 and Onwards (USA).’ Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System / CDC WISQARS.Atlanta:National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention / CDC,1 January. (Q1377)Full Citation

20.
Hoyert, Donna L. and Jiaquan Xu.2012.‘Deaths: Preliminary Data for 2011 - Selected Causes.’ National Vital Statistics Reports (NVSS).Hyattsville, MD:US Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control Prevention, Division of Vital Statistics,10 October. (Q6492)Full Citation

UNODC.2014.‘Homicides and Gun Homicides in the United States.’ Global Study on Homicide 2013: Trends, Context, Data.Vienna:United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC),10 April. (Q8902)Full Citation

And more on criminals murdering criminals...

Public Health Pot Shots




These and other studies funded by the CDC focus on the presence or absence of guns, rather than the characteristics of the people who use them. Indeed, the CDC's Rosenberg claims in the journalEducational Horizons that murderers are "ourselves--ordinary citizens, professionals, even health care workers": people who kill only because a gun happens to be available. Yet if there is one fact that has been incontestably established by homicide studies, it's that murderers are not ordinary gun owners but extreme aberrants whose life histories include drug abuse, serious accidents, felonies, and irrational violence.



Unlike "ourselves," roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have significant criminal records, averaging an adult criminal career of six or more years with four major felonies.

Access to juvenile records would almost certainly show that the criminal careers of murderers stretch back into their adolescence. In Murder in America (1994), the criminologists Ronald W. Holmes and Stephen T. Holmes report that murderers generally "have histories of committing personal violence in childhood, against other children, siblings, and small animals." Murderers who don't have criminal records usually have histories of psychiatric treatment or domestic violence that did not lead to arrest.

Contrary to the impression fostered by Rosenberg and other opponents of gun ownership, the term "acquaintance homicide" does not mean killings that stem from ordinary family or neighborhood arguments. Typical acquaintance homicides include: an abusive man eventually killing a woman he has repeatedly assaulted; a drug user killing a dealer (or vice versa) in a robbery attempt; and gang members, drug dealers, and other criminals killing each other for reasons of economic rivalry or personal pique.



According to a 1993 article in the Journal of Trauma, 80 percent of murders in Washington, D.C., are related to the drug trade, while "84% of [Philadelphia murder] victims in 1990 had antemortem drug use or criminal history."

A 1994 article in The New England Journal of Medicinereported that 71 percent of Los Angeles children and adolescents injured in drive-by shootings "were documented members of violent street gangs." And University of North Carolina-Charlotte criminal justice scholars Richard Lumb and Paul C. Friday report that 71 percent of adult gunshot wound victims in Charlotte have criminal records.

 

[2aguy]

The FBI table 8 puts gun murders at 8,124 for 2014....

You can keep repeating that , but I'm still not buying it. Fact is, they won't know what the real numbers are for 2014 for a while yet. But We DO know what the numbers are for previous years, and they are always north of 11K.

2013: 11,208
2012: 11,622
2011: 11,068
2010: 11,078
2009: 11,493
2008: 12,179
2007: 12,632


CDC WISQARS.2014.‘Injury Mortality Reports 1999 and Onwards (USA).’ Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System / CDC WISQARS.Atlanta:National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention / CDC,1 January. (Q1377)Full Citation

20.
Hoyert, Donna L. and Jiaquan Xu.2012.‘Deaths: Preliminary Data for 2011 - Selected Causes.’ National Vital Statistics Reports (NVSS).Hyattsville, MD:US Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control Prevention, Division of Vital Statistics,10 October. (Q6492)Full Citation

UNODC.2014.‘Homicides and Gun Homicides in the United States.’ Global Study on Homicide 2013: Trends, Context, Data.Vienna:United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC),10 April. (Q8902)Full Citation

And more on criminals murdering criminals.....normal gun owners don't use their guns to murder people...

Gangs in Fort Meyers Florida...



NBC2 Investigates: Gangs in Southwest Florida



The City of Fort Myers has been plagued with violence and murder. NBC2 Investigator Dave Elias dug deeper and found that drugs, crime and gangs are the common elements between those killings.

Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott says the three go hand-in-hand and all appear to be playing a big role in the city's crime problem.

"They're punks. They're criminals. And in most cases – cowards," said Sheriff Scott.

He also explained that gang members live by a much different set of rules.

"We're at a more violent time right now than at any time I recall," said Sheriff Scott. "You're talking about an area that - per capita - is on par with Detroit Michigan, in terms of homicides."

There were 25 murders in Fort Myers alone last year. And Sheriff Scott says all of the killings have those three things in common – drugs, crime and gangs.

"In most every case this is criminal killing criminal. This is bad guy on bad guy," he said.



********************************

 

[2aguy]

The FBI table 8 puts gun murders at 8,124 for 2014....

You can keep repeating that , but I'm still not buying it. Fact is, they won't know what the real numbers are for 2014 for a while yet. But We DO know what the numbers are for previous years, and they are always north of 11K.

2013: 11,208
2012: 11,622
2011: 11,068
2010: 11,078
2009: 11,493
2008: 12,179
2007: 12,632


CDC WISQARS.2014.‘Injury Mortality Reports 1999 and Onwards (USA).’ Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System / CDC WISQARS.Atlanta:National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention / CDC,1 January. (Q1377)Full Citation

20.
Hoyert, Donna L. and Jiaquan Xu.2012.‘Deaths: Preliminary Data for 2011 - Selected Causes.’ National Vital Statistics Reports (NVSS).Hyattsville, MD:US Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control Prevention, Division of Vital Statistics,10 October. (Q6492)Full Citation

UNODC.2014.‘Homicides and Gun Homicides in the United States.’ Global Study on Homicide 2013: Trends, Context, Data.Vienna:United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC),10 April. (Q8902)Full Citation

And more on criminals murdering criminals...

The Kate and Mauser study.......



http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

I. VIOLENCE: THE DECISIVENESS OF SOCIAL FACTORS
One reason the extent of gun ownership in a society does not spur the murder rate is that murderers are not spread evenly throughout the population. Analysis of perpetrator studies shows that violent criminals—especially murderers—“almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behav‐ ior.”37 So it would not appreciably raise violence if all law‐ abiding, responsible people had firearms because they are not the ones who rape, rob, or murder.38 By the same token, violent crime would not fall if guns were totally banned to civilians. As the respective examples of Luxembourg and Russia suggest,39 individuals who commit violent crimes will either find guns despite severe controls or will find other weapons to use. 40
--------------------------



III. DO ORDINARY PEOPLE MURDER?

The “more guns equal more death” mantra seems plausible only when viewed through the rubric that murders mostly in‐ volve ordinary people who kill because they have access to a firearm when they get angry. If this were true, murder might well increase where people have ready access to firearms, but the available data provides no such correlation. Nations and


areas with more guns per capita do not have higher murder rates than those with fewer guns per capita.53

Nevertheless, critics of gun ownership often argue that a “gun in the closet to protect against burglars will most likely be used to shoot a spouse in a moment of rage . . . . The problem is you and me—law‐abiding folks;”54 that banning handgun posses‐ sion only for those with criminal records will “fail to protect us from the most likely source of handgun murder: ordinary citi‐ zens;”55 that “most gun‐related homicides . . . are the result of impulsive actions taken by individuals who have little or no criminal background or who are known to the victims;”56 that “the majority of firearm homicide[s occur] . . . not as the result of criminal activity, but because of arguments between people who know each other;”57 that each year there are thousands of gun murders “by law‐abiding citizens who might have stayed law‐abiding if they had not possessed firearms.”58

These comments appear to rest on no evidence and actually con‐ tradict facts that have so uniformly been established by homicide studies dating back to the 1890s that they have become “crimino‐ logical axioms.”59 Insofar as studies focus on perpetrators, they show that neither a majority, nor many, nor virtually any murder‐ ers are ordinary “law‐abiding citizens.”60

Rather, almost all mur‐ derers are extremely aberrant individuals with life histories of violence, psychopathology, substance abuse, and other dangerous behaviors. “The vast majority of persons involved in life‐ threatening violence have a long criminal record with many prior contacts with the justice system.”61 “Thus homicide—[whether] of a

stranger or [of] someone known to the offender—‘is usually part of a pattern of violence, engaged in by people who are known . . . as violence prone.’”62
Though only 15% of Americans over the age of 15 have arrest records,63 approximately 90 percent of “adult mur‐ derers have adult records, with an average adult criminal career [involving crimes committed as an adult rather than a child] of six or more years, including four major adult felony arrests.”64
These national statistics dovetail with data from local nineteenth and twentieth century studies. For example: victims as well as offenders [in 1950s and 1960s Philadelphia murders] . . . tended to be people with prior police records, usually for violent crimes such as as‐ sault.”65
“The great majority of both perpetrators and victims of [1970s Harlem] assaults and murders had previous [adult] arrests, probably over 80% or more.”66 Boston police and probation officers in the 1990s agreed that of those juvenile‐perpetrated murders where all the facts were known, virtually all were committed by gang members, though the killing was not necessarily gang‐ directed. 67 One example would be a gang member who stabs his girlfriend to death in a fit of anger.68 Regardless of their arrests for other crimes, 80% of 1997 Atlanta murder arrestees had at least one earlier drug offense with 70% having 3 or more prior drug of‐ fenses.69
A New York Times study of the 1,662 murders committed in that city in the years 2003–2005 found that “[m]ore than 90 percent of the killers had criminal records.”70 Baltimore police figures show that “92 percent of murder suspects had [prior] criminal records in 2006.”71 Several of the more recent homicide studies just reviewed

 

[JoeB131]

800,000 people were murdered by their government as Europeans stood around, on the ground specifically deployed to stop it....and they did nothing......

So you couldn't answer the question about who was killing who then? Much less any other details.

The flaw in the argument you make is that a lack of guns on the part of the Tutsis, who were the victims here. But a civil war had been raging in Rwanda for four years up to that point. so the idea that a lack of guns caused the problem is just more gun nutter absurdity.

If they are out to kill you, they will kill you if you have guns or not. Because usually they have more of them and they are better armed and trained than you are.

 

[JoeB131]

And more on criminals murdering criminals...

The Kate and Mauser study......

Yawn, guy, you can fill every thread with this spew, I'm never going to read it.

Guns are the problem. If you guys can't police yourselves, someone else will.

 

[JoeB131]

FBI table on gun murder.....the law enforcement branch....

Except they are bullshit numbers. Amazing a guy who thinks he needs him a lot of guns to protect himself against the gummit is accepting gummit figures so easily.

Then again, he probably thinks his pecker is adequately sized.

 

[2aguy]

800,000 people were murdered by their government as Europeans stood around, on the ground specifically deployed to stop it....and they did nothing......

So you couldn't answer the question about who was killing who then? Much less any other details.

The flaw in the argument you make is that a lack of guns on the part of the Tutsis, who were the victims here. But a civil war had been raging in Rwanda for four years up to that point. so the idea that a lack of guns caused the problem is just more gun nutter absurdity.

If they are out to kill you, they will kill you if you have guns or not. Because usually they have more of them and they are better armed and trained than you are.

Dipstick, I have posted about the Rwandan genocide before......in detail....

Here it is again....and an unarmed civilian population was slaughtered by their government...while Europeans, who were on the ground to stop the genocide, did nothing...

Rwandan Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Prelude
Preparation for genocide
Historians do not agree on the precise date on which the idea of a "final solution" to kill every Tutsi in Rwanda was first mooted. Gerard Prunier dates it to 1992, when Habyarimana began negotiating with the RPF,[79] while journalist Linda Melvern dates it to 1990, following the initial RPF invasion.[80]

The army began arming civilians with weapons such as machetes from 1990, and training the Hutu youth in combat, officially as a programme of "civil defence" to the RPF threat,[81] but these weapons were later used in carrying out the genocide.[82] Rwanda also purchased large numbers of grenades and munitions from late 1990;


in one deal, future UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali, in his role asEgyptian foreign minister, facilitated a large sale of arms from Egypt.[83]

The Rwandan Armed Forces (FAR) expanded rapidly at this time, growing from less than 10,000 troops to almost 30,000 in one year.[81] The new recruits were often poorly disciplined;[81] a divide grew between the elite Presidential Guard and Gendarmerie units, who were well trained and battle ready, and the ordinary rank and file.[84]

In March 1993, the Hutu Power began compiling lists of "traitors" whom they planned to kill, and it is possible that Habyarimana's name was on these lists;[75] the CDR were publicly accusing the president of treason.[75] The Power groups also believed that the national radio station, Radio Rwanda, had become too liberal and supportive of the opposition; they founded a new radio station, Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines (RTLMC), which broadcast racist propaganda, obscene jokes and music, becoming very popular throughout the country.[85] One study finds that approximately 10% of the overall violence during the Rwandan genocide can be attributed to this new radio station.[86]

During 1993, the hardliners imported machetes on a scale far larger than that required for agriculture, as well as other tools which could be used as weapons, such as razor blades, saws and scissors.[87] These tools were distributed around the country, ostensibly as part of the civil defence network.[87]

And here we have the numbers.....notice...the military had guns....did a lot of good for the unarmed victims of the genocide didn't it......

Military leaders in Gisenyi province, the heartland of the akazu, were initially the most organised, convening a large gathering of interahamwe and civilian Hutu; the commanders announced the president's death, blaming the RPF, and then ordered the crowd to "begin your work" and to "spare no one", including babies.[115] The killing spread to Ruhengeri, Kibuye, Kigali, Kibungo, Gikongoro andCyangugu provinces on 7 April;[116] in each case, local officials, responding to orders from Kigali, spread rumours that the RPF had killed the president, followed by a command to kill Tutsi.[117] The Hutu population, which had been prepared and armed during the preceding months, and maintained the Rwandan tradition of obedience to authority, carried out the orders without question.[118] There were few killings in the provinces of Gitarama and Butare during the early phase,[117] as the governors of those areas were moderates opposed to the violence; the genocide began in Gitarama on 9 April,[119] and in Butare on 19 April, following the arrest and murder of Tutsi governor Jean Baptiste Habyarimana.[120] The genocide did not affect areas already under RPF control, including parts of Byumba province and eastern Ruhengeri.[121]

During the remainder of April and early May, the Presidential Guard, gendarmerie and the youth militia, aided by local populations, continued killing at a very high rate.[121]

Gerard Prunier estimates that during the first six weeks, up to 800,000 Rwandans may have been murdered,[121] representing a rate five times higher than during the Holocaust of Nazi Germany.[121] The goal was to kill every Tutsi living in Rwanda[122] and, with the exception of the advancing RPF army, there was no opposition force to prevent or slow the killings:[121]

 

[2aguy]

FBI table on gun murder.....the law enforcement branch....

Except they are bullshit numbers. Amazing a guy who thinks he needs him a lot of guns to protect himself against the gummit is accepting gummit figures so easily.

Then again, he probably thinks his pecker is adequately sized.

No joe...the CDC is filled with anti gun activists....if any numbers on guns are crap they would be the CDC...

 

[2aguy]

The one thing all genocide, mass murder and ethnic cleansing have in common.......the victims are all unarmed...they have no guns to stop it......All through the world when mass murder by government happens the victims did not have access to guns...and because of that...they were murdered in their millions.

 

[depotoo]

So criminals will stop buying black market guns, because you think they shouldn't have them, nor the govt?
Many brain cells have to be missing...

Because guys like joe and the others imply that normal people cannot use guns effectively to defend themselves…that the criminal will always get the better of any armed citizen and that only the police and military should be allowed access to guns.

No, stupid, I think only the police and military should have guns because THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO NEED THEM.

Average citizens don't.

Period.

 

[TemplarKormac]

This woman....who is not a Navy Seal or Delta Operator......fought off guys who shot at her while she was breastfeeding her baby...

Sorry, I know this isn't supposed to be a funny thread, but I couldn't resist.

I'll see myself out now.

 

[TemplarKormac]

My only issue with what this woman did is...

Why didn't she take the child somewhere safe? Isn't it kinda dangerous to bring a kid to a gunfight?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

My daughter-in-law's stepfather was the victim of a home invasion. Teenage kid with a sawed-off shotgun blew two fingers off his right hand and shot him in the shoulder, nearly killing him.

Do you think if he had been armed, the incident would have turned out the way it did?

We have 32,000 gun related deaths a year. - Roughly 19,500 suicides, 11,000 homicides and 500 accidents.

of those, only 200 are classified as "Justifiable homicides" by civilians shooting criminals or attackers.

While I feel bad your your friend and all, the fact is, the butcher's bill on your fetish is much too high.

Especially since other countries that limit or outlaw gun ownership have nowhere near our level of carnage.

So let's hear your plan for getting the guns out of the hands of criminals instead of taking them from law-abiding gun owners. Isn't that the part that you gun-grabbers always forget?