Canada wait-list deaths: 23,000 Canadians died, report finds

[Dragonlady]

Tell your handler that you continue to destroy us with your efforts against me. A dozen international agencies and the most important in the U.S. In the meantime, from CTV:

Tens of thousands of Canadians died waiting for medical care in the past year: report Tens of thousands of Canadians died waiting for medical care in the past year: report​

Read your own post asshole. If you're waiting for knee surgery and you die of a heart attack, they count that as a "died while waiting for health care". If I had died of a heart attack while I was waiting for my knee replacement, they would have counted me.

This number is meaningless. These people didn't die because they didn't get health care, which is what this think tank is saying. They died while waiting for elective treatments.

This libertarian think tank wants American style health care for Canada. If you actually lived in Canada, you would know how things work here.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Read your own post asshole. If you're waiting for knee surgery and you die of a heart attack, they count that as a "died while waiting for health care". If I had died of a heart attack while I was waiting for my knee replacement, they would have counted me.

This number is meaningless. These people didn't die because they didn't get health care, which is what this think tank is saying. They died while waiting for elective treatments.

This libertarian think tank wants American style health care for Canada. If you actually lived in Canada, you would know how things work here.

There are posts from ER hospitals that show an online wait time estimation of between 5 and 15 hours...for Emergencies!

You sit on a throne of lies!

 

[White 6]

Here is what you need to read:

"The report emphasizes that the bulk of wait-list deaths occurred among patients awaiting procedures that could have improved their quality of life, such as hip and knee surgeries, cataract operations and MRIs, but a significant subset involved potentially life-saving interventions including heart surgeries and cancer treatments."

I was on a waiting list for 2 years for my knee replacement. If I had a heart attack and died before I have my knee surgery, they would have counted me as a "waiting list death". But everybody my age is on a waiting list for something.

Waiting lists were horrendous after covid but they're back down to reasonable levels again. I had to wait an extra year for my surgery. With our system, you get in line BEFORE you actually need the surgery, because there are waiting lists.

I need to get in line for hip surgery. I don't need it now, but I will in a year or two. I had a long wait for my knee surgery, but my friend, who couldn't walk and was in agony, went to the doctor in September and had the surgery 3 weeks later, giving her just enough time to make arrangements for her post surgery care and transportation, before she went in for a double knee replacement. Triage.

That is very informative, and from one with direct experience in that system of government healthcare. I and everybody else here, are aware of drawbacks to your system. Personally, I think I could put up with drawbacks, in order to elevate the average life expectancy of your country and most other developed industrial modern countries.

Politician here (especially of the right wing) have long preached the drawbacks, ignoring what appears to be notable benefits in longevity and health, particularly to less advantaged segments of the population. We and particularly them (the less advantaged) simply are not worth it to those that can easily afford to totally pay for their own healthcare, the money better spent on expanding military power at home and around the world. No clean debate has ever happened, based simply on fact, not on emotional argument, here.

 

[Dragonlady]

That is very informative, and from one with direct experience in that system of government healthcare. I and everybody else here, are aware of drawbacks to your system. Personally, I think I could put up with drawbacks, in order to elevate the average life expectancy of your country and most other developed industrial modern countries.

Politician here (especially of the right wing) have long preached the drawbacks, ignoring what appears to be notable benefits in longevity and health, particularly to less advantaged segments of the population. We and particularly them (the less advantaged) simply are not worth it to those that can easily afford to totally pay for their own healthcare, the money better spent on expanding military power at home and around the world. No clean debate has ever happened, based simply on fact, not on emotional argument, here.

There are savings everywhere - bankruptcy due to medical bills is non-existent here. There are no copays on doctor's office visits, testing, or hospital stays. There is no paperwork to submit to insurance companies. My OHIP card is a swipe card that I use for my medical care.

When I was in New Brunswick recently, and was injured, my Ontario medical card was all I needed to access care, and I paid nothing out of pocket, except a small copay on my prescription - $12.00.



My knee replacement cost me $200. I paid for a toilet riser, and a shower bench at a medical supply store.

 

[White 6]

There are savings everywhere - bankruptcy due to medical bills is non-existent here. There are no copays on doctor's office visits, testing, or hospital stays. There is no paperwork to submit to insurance companies. My OHIP card is a swipe card that I use for my medical care.

When I was in New Brunswick recently, and was injured, my Ontario medical card was all I needed to access care, and I paid nothing out of pocket, except a small copay on my prescription - $12.00.



My knee replacement cost me $200. I paid for a toilet riser, and a shower bench at a medical supply store.

Amazing. You start talking government healthcare down here, and it is like you just passed gas on an express elevator, just starting for the 50th floor. It does not bother me. Most of my healthcare at age 71 is government healthcare, both Medicare and Tricare, due to military service. Co-pays exist but are pretty low and coverage between those two are excellent. Back when the kids were at home, PJ and I both carried family plan coverage through our corporate employers, coming out pretax, but still a big deduct from our paychecks. The amount people are paying here on non-corporate employee on the open market is staggering, indeed. There are 27.2 million people here with no health insurance, whatsoever, only access to Emergency Room's required, so the uninsured keep the emergency rooms full, often causing very long waits, if you cannot get moved to the front due to a real life threatening emergency. We have not experienced it, but have seen it. My son is head ER nurse on shift at the largest hospital here between Memphis and Nashville, and my wife worked for them for 22 years before retiring. Fair or not, they do take care of their own.

 

[Dragonlady]

Amazing. You start talking government healthcare down here, and it is like you just passed gas on an express elevator, just starting for the 50th floor. It does not bother me. Most of my healthcare at age 71 is government healthcare, both Medicare and Tricare, due to military service. Co-pays exist but are pretty low and coverage between those two are excellent. Back when the kids were at home, PJ and I both carried family plan coverage through our corporate employers, coming out pretax, but still a big deduct from our paychecks. The amount people are paying here on non-corporate employee on the open market is staggering, indeed. There are 27.2 million people here with no health insurance, whatsoever, only access to Emergency Room's required, so the uninsured keep the emergency rooms full, often causing very long waits, if you cannot get moved to the front due to a real life threatening emergency. We have not experienced it, but have seen it. My son is head ER nurse on shift at the largest hospital here between Memphis and Nashville, and my wife worked for them for 22 years before retiring. Fair or not, they do take care of their own.

Regarding the myth of waiting weeks for an appointment, my PCP has a number of same day appointments saved for emergencies. To get one, you must call at 9:00 am sharp. By 9:05, they’re gone. For real emergencies only. Not to be abused.

The biggest problem with our system is the shortsge of primary care physicians. If you don’t have a PCP, your only source of care in a small town is the emergency ward. Cities at least have after hours clinics which are quicker than the emergency room.

A friend recently went for a year without a doctor when his doctor retired and no one replaced him or bought out his practice. My friend was having issues at the time and no one in town was taking new patients.

I recently moved in with my daughter in the city. Her family are patients of a family practice unit attached to the local University research hospital and Medical School. As a member of her family, I just have to register as a patient with them.

A doctor who had practiced in both countries said he made more money in the USA, but kept more of his income in Canada. Because he didn’t have to deal with insurance company pre-approvals, he could see more patients in Canada and spend more time with them. His receptionist did his billing.

His nurse does the EKG’s, tests blood pressure, and collects samples for the lab - all billable work. Administration, which is over 30% of costs in the US, is 7% here.

We get sick, we go to the doctor and get treated right away. No waiting because of copays because there are no copays.

 

[Rumpole]

I wonder if they offer the Creepy Ones who have destroyed our nation through their covert police abuses the MAID option when they seek medical assistance?

Canada is failing its citizens and America knows this. The strategy is to wait Trump out, however, if the Trump administration rips up USMCA and negotiations separate deals with the us and Mexico, or worse, focuses provincially to divide Canada even more; with how much the caste system has decimated this nations most endearing qualities, there will be no one willing to fight for Canadas future when situation demands it.

Don't blame me, I am one of it's many once unwitting victims as the TPS, Peel Region Police, DRPS and OPP, among others, milked the system of tens of millions just to destroy one kid. Multiply these nefarious acts against our population by many thousands and you can see how an unaccountable covert police state which rewards the least impressive among us while destroying its most driven and patriotic has lost faith from its citizens, perhaps irreparably.

America must look to Japan and other allies who believe in American Values and will fight for them, sacrificing their flesh and blood for freedom because we have long failed our nation. I will keep spreading the news and demanding accountability as they steal my home after decades of stealing my dreams. I hope the federal government, Public Safety Minister and other key stakeholders heed my warning because details and truth spread fast in todays small world of rapid communication.

To the more than 23,000 who died waiting, many of us tried to clean up this corrupt system of abusers and their feckless boot lickers who happily destroyed their fellow citizen. Weak, lying, heathen, rats have overrun the ship. Our duty is to align with those who demand accountability and stand up for our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Any violator in a position of power is an enemy to all that is good.

If our politicians won't protect us I ask that Americans meander with our population and reach out to us who pursue the rights ordained by G-d. We are getting destroyed here and you are well aware of this by now.

Tens of thousands of Canadians died waiting for medical care in the past year: report

A new report is raising alarm over growing wait-list deaths in Canada.

www.ctvnews.ca

A new report is raising alarm over growing wait-list deaths in Canada.

The report from public policy think tank SecondStreet.org revealed that at least 23,746 patients died in Canada while waiting for surgeries or diagnostic procedures between April 2024 and March 2025.

The figures are a three per cent increase from the previous year and push the total number of reported wait-list deaths since 2018 to more than 100,000.


The organization says the findings are based on freedom of information (FOI) requests summitted to more than 40 provincial and territorial health bodies.

The report warned that several jurisdictions provided only partial data, while Alberta and some parts of Manitoba provided none, meaning the true total is likely higher.

“It’s interesting that governments will regularly inspect restaurants and report publicly if there’s a minor problem such as a missing paper towel holder,” SecondStreet.org president Colin Craig said in a news release. “Meanwhile, no government reports publicly on patients dying on waiting lists. It’s quite hypocritical.”

Behind the numbers​

Behind the statistics are the lives of Canadians like Debbie Fewster, a Manitoba mother of three who was told in July 2024 she needed heart surgery within three weeks, the report says.

Instead, she waited more than two months. She died on Thanksgiving Day.

Her death, like many others, became public only because her family spoke out, the report says.

Similar stories have emerged across the country: 19-year-old Laura Hillier and 16-year-old Finlay van der Werken of Ontario who died while waiting for treatment; Alberta’s Jerry Dunham also passed away in 2020 while waiting for a pacemaker.

Widespread strain​

Ontario recorded the highest number of wait-list deaths: 10,634, including more than 9,100 diagnostic-scan deaths where patients died before reaching the point of receiving or being scheduled for surgery.

Quebec was second with 6,290, while B.C. followed with 4,620. Smaller provinces also saw a number of deaths including Nova Scotia (727), Newfoundland and Labrador (542), Saskatchewan (419), Prince Edward Island (178) and New Brunswick (121).

Manitoba reported 215 deaths but that data is partial.

The report emphasizes that the bulk of wait-list deaths occurred among patients awaiting procedures that could have improved their quality of life, such as hip and knee surgeries, cataract operations and MRIs, but a significant subset involved potentially life-saving interventions including heart surgeries and cancer treatments.

Ontario’s cardiac data alone showed 355 deaths among patients waiting for heart procedures. In at least 90 cases, patients waited beyond recommended timelines or more than 90 days.

The wait times associated with some recorded deaths ranged from under a week to nearly nine years.

The organization noted that even waiting for “non-life-saving” procedures can become life-altering. Patients awaiting cataract surgery may lose functional vision, for example, while those waiting for joint replacement often live sedentary lives increasing the risk of falls, blood clots or other complications.

Issue isn’t funding: report​

At $244 billion, public health-care spending from 2024 to 2025 reached a historic high, the report said, with per-capita spending tripling to $5,943 from the mid-1990s. Canada also remains one of the world’s top health-care spenders.

But high spending has not translated into improved performance, the report said.

The brief cites research from the Fraser Institute showing Canada has fewer doctors, hospital beds and MRI machines per capita than many other universal health-care systems – and longer wait times.

Calls for reform​

The brief outlines key policy options that provincial governments could adopt to reduce wait times and prevent further deaths.

One is tracking and disclosing wait-list deaths. A 2021 poll commissioned by SecondStreet.org found that 79 per cent of Canadians think governments should carefully track and disclose data on how long patients wait for care, how that compares to maximum recommended waiting periods, and what the eventual patient outcome is.

Another proposed policy change is adopting activity-based funding where hospitals are paid based on the number of patients they treat rather than receiving large annual lump-sum budgets.

Other recommendations include partnering with private clinics at lower costs than hospitals, providing patients a mix of public and private options, and adopting an EU-style “Cross Border Directive” that would allow patients to seek treatment elsewhere either within or outside Canada and be reimbursed up to the amount their provincial government would have spent.

More than that die each year in America because they have no healthcare

 

[Dragonlady]

More than that die each year in America because they have no healthcare

We have waiting lists for cataract surgery here. My FIL was wait listed for hernia surgery. Knee replacements, hip replacements - any surgery that isn’t a medical emergency is wait listed.

If you die while on ANY waiting list, this website says you died waiting for medical treatment. Even if a person waiting for a knee replacement dies of a heart attack, this website counts them as dying “while waiting for medical treatment”.

I’m 77 and about to go on the waiting list for hip surgery. I won’t die if I don’t have this surgery, but if I die before I have hip surgery, this conservative website will try to use my death to promote their agenda.

They oppose government funded healthcare and want American for profit insurance.

 

[frigidweirdo]

That's a pretty cold blooded way for Canada to control healthcare costs. I can't believe any American would want a "Single Payer" healthcare system when we have such an egregious example right next door to us.

Except that in the US far more people DIE.

https://insuranceinformant.com/how-many-americans-die-because-they-cannot-afford.html

"A new state-by-state study by Families USA has found that nearly 45, 000 annual deaths are associated with lack of health insurance in the United States."

If the amount spent per capita on US heatlhcare were translated over to a single payer healthcare system, it would be SUPERB.

The US federal govt spends MORE per capita on healthcare than the UK government does. And the people don't need private health insurance on top of that, everyone gets dealt with.

If the UK govt spent 2% of GDP more, the NHS would be really, really good.

And it was good, in 2010 when Labour lost the election (because of the financial crisis) the NHS was very good. Then the conservative govt got in, and they defunded it. They increased spending in 14 years by about 23% while tax increases were 90% and inflation went up quite a lot in that time too.

So, essentially they took money away from the NHS because they want a system like the US's system where 15% goes to insurance companies to tell you no, you don't have the right cancer, **** off and die, and then big pharma companies are overcharging for drugs, paying doctors to prescribe overpriced drugs, hospitals charging for anything and everything they can at whatever price they feel like.

The amount of money you have to pay for the corruption in the US health insurance industry must be at least 30% of what you're spending

So next time you pay you health insurance, calculate 30% and realize you're just paying into someone's pocket to do ******* NOTHING.

 

[Dragonlady]

That's a pretty cold blooded way for Canada to control healthcare costs. I can't believe any American would want a "Single Payer" healthcare system when we have such an egregious example right next door to us.

Except this website is lying to you about those waiting lists. They're implying these people would have lived if not for having to wait for treatment, when, in the majority of cases, the treatment they were waiting for had nothing to do with their cause of death.

Like the website which said that Canadians had missed 19 million "medical treatments and/or tests" during covid. Their definition included "medical treatments" annual medicals, pap smears, mammograms, bloodwork, colon cancer tests. I was way behind on all of these things when lockdown ended too. We got caught up.

 

[Dragonlady]

Except that in the US far more people DIE.

https://insuranceinformant.com/how-many-americans-die-because-they-cannot-afford.html

"A new state-by-state study by Families USA has found that nearly 45, 000 annual deaths are associated with lack of health insurance in the United States."

If the amount spent per capita on US heatlhcare were translated over to a single payer healthcare system, it would be SUPERB.

The US federal govt spends MORE per capita on healthcare than the UK government does. And the people don't need private health insurance on top of that, everyone gets dealt with.

If the UK govt spent 2% of GDP more, the NHS would be really, really good.

And it was good, in 2010 when Labour lost the election (because of the financial crisis) the NHS was very good. Then the conservative govt got in, and they defunded it. They increased spending in 14 years by about 23% while tax increases were 90% and inflation went up quite a lot in that time too.

So, essentially they took money away from the NHS because they want a system like the US's system where 15% goes to insurance companies to tell you no, you don't have the right cancer, **** off and die, and then big pharma companies are overcharging for drugs, paying doctors to prescribe overpriced drugs, hospitals charging for anything and everything they can at whatever price they feel like.

The amount of money you have to pay for the corruption in the US health insurance industry must be at least 30% of what you're spending

So next time you pay you health insurance, calculate 30% and realize you're just paying into someone's pocket to do ******* NOTHING.

They're not doing ****** NOTHING. They're delaying your treatment while they decide whether they can avoid paying for this, and then rejecting your paperwork when submitted.

 

[candycorn]

So if true, shouldn't you move to Canada to enjoy a longer and healthier life?

IF you're any indication, Canadians are paranoid losers who worship convicted felons. No thanks.

Good healthcare system though!

As someone who works in healthcare, we have so many Americans who should be on therapy (for physical ailments....not the mental issues you have) but can't afford to visit a doctor or afford to take time off to visit a doctor, we could easily quadruple that 23K. Likely we have that x2 in greater PHX alone. Its not measured because there is no statistic collection going on.

One of the reasons there are so many medical bankruptcies in the US is because the comparative pennies they could be spending in prevention are not spent...so people go to see a doctor after they have debilitating incidents such as (ironically) missing work or cardiac events. By then, the pennies for pills becomes cashing in your 401k to pay for an operation.

 

[candycorn]

Amazing. You start talking government healthcare down here, and it is like you just passed gas on an express elevator, just starting for the 50th floor. It does not bother me. Most of my healthcare at age 71 is government healthcare, both Medicare and Tricare, due to military service. Co-pays exist but are pretty low and coverage between those two are excellent. Back when the kids were at home, PJ and I both carried family plan coverage through our corporate employers, coming out pretax, but still a big deduct from our paychecks. The amount people are paying here on non-corporate employee on the open market is staggering, indeed. There are 27.2 million people here with no health insurance, whatsoever, only access to Emergency Room's required, so the uninsured keep the emergency rooms full, often causing very long waits, if you cannot get moved to the front due to a real life threatening emergency. We have not experienced it, but have seen it. My son is head ER nurse on shift at the largest hospital here between Memphis and Nashville, and my wife worked for them for 22 years before retiring. Fair or not, they do take care of their own.

Times in ERs are dropping but the idea of driving up at 12:00 and being treated at 12:05 is probably a thing of the past.

Your post is right on.

 

[frigidweirdo]

They're not doing ****** NOTHING. They're delaying your treatment while they decide whether they can avoid paying for this, and then rejecting your paperwork when submitted.

I gave a laughing emoji, not really funny, it's sick, and it's typical the US.

 

[Dragonlady]

QUOTE="frigidweirdo, post: 38091400, member: 47831"]
I gave a laughing emoji, not really funny, it's sick, and it's typical the US.
[/QUOTE]

Yesterday, I suffered a massive heart attack at 11:30 in the morning. I called 911. The EMT’s arrived in under 5 minutes. 911 stayed on the line until they arrived.

The did an assessment and loaded me into the ambulance, by which time I was unconscious. They began treatment immediately then off to the hospital. I had recovered consciousness and the pain was less.

When we arrived at the hospital, a team was waiting. The did a further assessment and by 1:00 pm I was on my was to surgery. They prepped me in the OR.

By 3:00, I was in the cardiac ICU recovering. The EMT’s swiped my OHIP card when they came to the house and my paperwork was done.

My only focus, and that of my family, is my recovery. Not the bills. Not the paperwork, just getting better.

This is how triage works.