How do you prove you are a US Citizens if you do not have a birth certificate?

[Flopper]

Whether it is good or bad depends on what side of the fence you are on. If your primary concern is getting rid of all those people that don't look and sound like Americans, then I guest it would be a good thing.

However, if your primary concern is fairness and justice in accordance with our laws and the constitution, what we are doing now is pretty bad. I think history will focus not on how many we deported but how many we wrongfully deported.

 

[Concerned American]

If you look illegal, you better have proof on you.

Do you go ANYWHERE without ID?

 

[Concerned American]

Whether it is good or bad depends on what side of the fence you are on. If your primary concern is getting rid of all those people that don't look and sound like Americans, then I guest it would be good thing.

However, if your primary concern is fairness and justice in accordance with our laws and the constitution, what we are doing now is pretty bad and that is the way history will reflect it, not how many people got deported a day.

We have laws against unbridled immigration. These laws were violated. The fault is on the deported.

 

[Flopper]

start with https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CH...aining-Certified-Copies-of-Birth-Records.aspx

AZDHS | Vital Records

Obtain certified copies of a birth and death certificates.

www.azdhs.gov

If those don't work she can try to go through an arcane process that could need a lawyer or a congressional caseworkers help. It may involve tracking down people who knew her mother when and where she was born; seeing if there is any evidence in family bibles; see if the school she first attended still exists and has anything. There is a work around process that is a hold over from the days of black hospitals or home birthing where records no longer exist but she needs to start working on it. If she waits until she is 65 it may be too late.

Thanks, this is the first post that has been of any possible help. Not having the birthday and a birthplace of Arizona or California makes it pretty hard. I will give the information to her and hopefully she will have other information. In the current climate, I'm afraid she will be deported if stopped. I don't have any faith in ICE helping her at all. She talked a lawyer at some legal aid place and she was told to stay away from immigration offices and ICE. They are not there to help.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Order a California Birth Certificate | StateVitalRecords.org

State Vital Records provides fast, convenient access to government-issued vital records and vital record services through a secure online portal.

statevitalrecords.org

 

[Flopper]

We have laws against unbridled immigration. These laws were violated. The fault is on the deported.

NO, the fault lies with those that violated the law. Being in the country without documentation is not a crime. It is violation of immigration rules and regulations.

 

[Concerned American]

Being in the country without documentation is not a crime. It is violation of immigration rules and regulations.

It certainly is a crime. Educate yourself.

Unauthorized Entry & Re-entry Prosecutions

nipnlg.org

 

[Flopper]

You don't need a hearing for ICE to ask you your name, and the other things, stupid.

If don't have proper documentation or know where it is , the less you say to ICE the better.

 

[Dekster]

Thanks, this is the first post that has been of any possible help. Not having the birthday and a birthplace of Arizona or California makes it pretty hard. I will give the information to her and hopefully she will have other information. In the current climate, I'm afraid she will be deported if stopped. I don't have any faith in ICE helping her at all. She talked a lawyer at some legal aid place and she was told to stay away from immigration offices and ICE. They are not there to help.

It is a toss up because they really don't know she isn't legal either presumably. This is an issue that used to come up when I was a congressional staffer from time to time. Medical records (or her mothers records when she was pregnant), school records, immunization records or family Bibles were usually the key to getting the delayed issued birth certificate. Census records can be used but they are not public until you are ancient. Each state has there own process, but she really needs to first figure out when and where she was born and start there. She will need to know that.

The reason we used to help people was there was a black hospital in our district that issued its own birth certificates that wasn't particularly diligent with registering births with anybody and when it shut down, all its records were destroyed. Older black women who were wives/moms and never needed their birth certificate until later in life sometimes found out they didn't officially exist yet and really struggled to get a delayed issue state birth certificate if they didn't have that one the hospital used to give them.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Whether it is good or bad depends on what side of the fence you are on. If your primary concern is getting rid of all those people that don't look and sound like Americans, then I guest it would be good thing.

However, if your primary concern is fairness and justice in accordance with our laws and the constitution, what we are doing now is pretty bad and that is the way history will reflect it, not how many people got deported a day.

Not sure if the avoiding of the question was intentional or not but lets try it with some specificity to find out...
...So lets try it this way while keeping in mind that there is "no such thing as fair immigration laws", for you personally which of the two definitions you gave above do you ascribe these two claims below that you made?

Donald Trump has already demonstrated that our immigration laws are not enforceable.

v^good or bad v^ by the "no such thing as fair immigration laws" standard?

In a second term, he has declare a national emergency that would allow him to bypass existing immigration laws

based on the "conceptual" claim that there is "no such thing as fair immigration laws" was what trump did above bad or good by your/that standard?

 

[Flopper]

It certainly is a crime. Educate yourself.

Unauthorized Entry & Re-entry Prosecutions

nipnlg.org

Being present in the U.S. without legal documentation is a civil violation, not a criminal offense according to the American Immigration Council. While it's not a crime to simply be in the country without authorization, entering or reentering the U.S. without permission is a federal misdemeanor.

While there is no penalty for being present in the US without documentation you will probably be charge with Unlawful Presence, a civil offense with the primary consequence being deportation.

Probably the major difference in immigration enforcement under Trump versus previous presidents is that the Trump administration does not consider extenuating circumstances such as unable to locate documentation, meeting the legal requirements to stay in the country, your kid is in the hospital dying of cancer, etc...

Of course if you have a 5 million dollar Trump card or a genuine Trump red hat, that's all the documentation you will need.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

My housekeeper ask me this. Her mother was a migrant farm worker. Soon after her birth another family unofficially adopted her. She believes she was born in August 1998 in Southern California or Arizona but she is not sure. She is afraid to go to an immigration office because ICE is monitoring the offices. She ask me if there was a state or national database where she can search for her birth certificate.

She can buy one on the black market but that just compounds her crime and/or the crime of her parents

 

[Flopper]

It is a toss up because they really don't know she isn't legal either presumably. This is an issue that used to come up when I was a congressional staffer from time to time. Medical records (or her mothers records when she was pregnant), school records, immunization records or family Bibles were usually the key to getting the delayed issued birth certificate. Census records can be used but they are not public until you are ancient. Each state has there own process, but she really needs to first figure out when and where she was born and start there. She will need to know that.

The reason we used to help people was there was a black hospital in our district that issued its own birth certificates that wasn't particularly diligent with registering births with anybody and when it shut down, all its records were destroyed. Older black women who were wives/moms and never needed their birth certificate until later in life sometimes found out they didn't officially exist yet and really struggled to get a delayed issue state birth certificate if they didn't have that one the hospital used to give them.

If you are being detained by ICE, I don't think that will work simple because there are quotas to meet and ICE doesn't keep detainees around very long. However, those are good ideas to pursue before you are stopped.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Being present in the U.S. without legal documentation is a civil violation, not a criminal offense according to the American Immigration Council. While it's not a crime to simply be in the country without authorization, entering or reentering the U.S. without permission is a federal misdemeanor.

While there is no penalty for being present in the US without documentation you will probably be charge with Unlawful Presence, a civil offense with the primary consequence being deportation.

Probably the major difference in immigration enforcement under Trump versus previous presidents is that the Trump administration does not consider extenuating circumstances such as unable to locate documentation, meeting the legal requirements to stay in the country, your kid is in the hospital dying of cancer, etc...

Of course if you have a 5 million dollar Trump card or a genuine Trump red hat, that's all the documentation you will need.

Being present in the U.S. without legal documentation is a civil violation,

A violation that can get you deported. And should.

Probably the major difference in immigration enforcement under Trump versus previous presidents is that the Trump administration does not consider extenuating circumstances such as unable to locate documentation, meeting the legal requirements to stay in the country, your kid is in the hospital dying of cancer, etc...

Yeah, Biden's fuckups are making things harder for some good people.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Or course I'm not OK with it. It has become necessary due our deeply flawed immigration system that Trump has replaced with dictates from a tyrannical leader.

People like my housekeeper and her two kids who have not violated our laws will probably suffer. If she just had 5 million dollar she could get a Trump 5 million dollar residents card.

She may not have done anything wrong but her mom put her in an untenable position because she was not in compliance with our immigration laws. And if nothing was illegal, then why is she afraid to try to get this rectified? Does she at least know where she was born, because shouldn't she be able to get a copy of her birth certificate from the hospital?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Or course I'm not OK with it. It has become necessary due our deeply flawed immigration system that Trump has replaced with dictates from a tyrannical leader.

People like my housekeeper and her two kids who have not violated our laws will probably suffer. If she just had 5 million dollar she could get a Trump 5 million dollar residents card.

Do her children at least have birth certifications thus proof that they are U.S. citizens?

 

[Foxfyre]

My housekeeper ask me this. Her mother was a migrant farm worker. Soon after her birth another family unofficially adopted her. She believes she was born in August 1998 in Southern California or Arizona but she is not sure. She is afraid to go to an immigration office because ICE is monitoring the offices. She ask me if there was a state or national database where she can search for her birth certificate.

The vital records office in each state will have that information. If you know your birth name, the name of at least one parent, and your social security number I'm pretty sure you can order a certified birth certificate on line in all 50 state.

My mother needed her birth certificate to apply for social security, but the courthouse that had those records burned down when she was a young adult. That was long before any data could be put into computers or accessed electronically.

She had no need for it until she turned 65 and needed to apply for social security. She was able to verify her citizenship from old family Bible records and testimony of living relatives.

 

[Concerned American]

Probably the major difference in immigration enforcement under Trump versus previous presidents is that the Trump administration does not consider extenuating circumstances such as unable to locate documentation, meeting the legal requirements to stay in the country, your kid is in the hospital dying of cancer, etc...

None of which is "My maid is in the country illegally and I want to find a way to keep her because she works cheap and I like her." Transparent. Illegal immigrants should be deported.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

There is no central database of birth certificates in the US and most state, county and city birth certificate records are not online. However, they can be validate if you have one in hand.

It is now the responsibility of the detainee to show proof of legal residency. Prior to Trump, it was ICE's job to determine if you are here legally. ICE's job now is to apprehend those suspected of being in the country illegally and hold them for deportation. There will be a deportation hearing for the group scheduled to be deportation. At that hearing, the judge ask is there any proof showing legal residency in the US. If you have none, you are deported. Fast, efficient, and very prone to error. You may still request a hearing, however the chance of getting a hearing is pretty remote.

What is being done is contrary to our immigration laws and the constitution. The court is allowing Trump to do this because of he has declared National emergency at the border. Challenges to constitutionality is defended using various enemy alien acts that go back as for as 200 years.

If you look illegal, you better have proof on you.

Each state has a vital records database - births, deaths, marriages & divorce decrees however if sounds as if she's not aware of whether or not a birth certificate was ever issued. I asked my AI assistance for alternative ways to prove birth and this is the response:

"if a person doesn't have a birth certificate then it stands to reason that they aren't in the vital records database, right?"

AI said:​

Exactly — that’s a logical and generally accurate conclusion:

If someone doesn’t have a birth certificate, it most likely means their birth was never officially recorded in the state’s vital records system.

But here’s where it gets nuanced — and potentially hopeful for someone trying to prove they were born in the U.S.:

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• In some cases, a birth may have been recorded by a hospital or midwife, but never transmitted to the state for official registration.
• Sometimes, the record exists under a different name or spelling, especially in informal or undocumented births.
• A person might appear in hospital logs, baptismal records, or early school enrollment documents — even if there’s no formal certificate.

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​

If a person requests a birth certificate from a state and receives a formal “No record found” letter, that can be used:

• As evidence in a delayed birth certificate petition.
• In a declaratory judgment of birth (a court order recognizing someone’s birth based on other evidence).
• To begin building a paper trail for future legal identification efforts.

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​

In both California and Arizona, and many other states:

• If someone was born but the birth wasn’t registered, they can apply for delayed registration by providing:
  • Witness statements
  • Medical records
  • School records
  • Church documents
  • Early utility bills or census records

This process is especially common for:

• People born at home
• People informally adopted
• People from marginalized or undocumented communities

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Thanks, this is the first post that has been of any possible help. Not having the birthday and a birthplace of Arizona or California makes it pretty hard. I will give the information to her and hopefully she will have other information. In the current climate, I'm afraid she will be deported if stopped. I don't have any faith in ICE helping her at all. She talked a lawyer at some legal aid place and she was told to stay away from immigration offices and ICE. They are not there to help.

Okay this may sound like a stupid question but does she have any valid form of ID? I can't imagine trying to navigate life without having & carrying ID although from what I've read, ICE has no jurisdiction over U.S. citizens and citizens are not required to prove their citizenship.