How do you prove you are a US Citizens if you do not have a birth certificate?

[Zincwarrior]

Nope. Burden has always been on the detainee

No. If you are a citizen you have full rights under the Bill of Rights including rights to a trial. in the US the burden is not on you to prove you are a citizen, but them to prove you aren't.
Elaboration:

• U.S. Citizens Have Rights:
  U.S. citizens are protected by the Constitution and are not subject to immigration laws enforced by ICE.
  
• • Immediate Action:
    If ICE detains a citizen, they should immediately state their citizenship and refuse to answer questions or sign any documents without legal counsel.
    
  • Consulting an Attorney:
    It's crucial for citizens detained by ICE to consult with an attorney as soon as possible. An attorney can advise them on their rights and potential legal recourse, including filing a lawsuit against ICE for unlawful detention.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Says the American Immigration council"

Says the US Constitution: 4th and 5th Amendments.

 

[martybegan]

You mean June Nineteenth? I refuse to promote ignorance and ebonics.

It's an actual holiday that marks an actual event, that was mostly celebrated in Texas before it was made a Federal Holiday.

I personally would have picked the day the 13th amendment was ratified, or the day of the Emancipation Proclamation, but that's just the history buff in me.

 

[martybegan]

Says the US Constitution: 4th and 5th Amendments.

Says your bullshit interpretation of them.

 

[Rawley]

No.

Yup. Read the statute. Burden is on the detainee.

If you are a citizen you have full rights under the Bill of Rights including rights to a trial. in the US the burden is not on you to prove you are a citizen, but them to prove you aren't.
Elaboration:

• U.S. Citizens Have Rights:
  U.S. citizens are protected by the Constitution and are not subject to immigration laws enforced by ICE.
• • Immediate Action:
    If ICE detains a citizen, they should immediately state their citizenship and refuse to answer questions or sign any documents without legal counsel.
  • Consulting an Attorney:
    It's crucial for citizens detained by ICE to consult with an attorney as soon as possible. An attorney can advise them on their rights and potential legal recourse, including filing a lawsuit against ICE for unlawful detention.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Says your bullshit interpretation of them.

​

I am missing the "bullshit interpretation" of them:​

Fourth Amendment​

Fourth Amendment Explained


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fifth Amendment​

Fifth Amendment Explained


No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Sixth Amendment​

Sixth Amendment Explained


In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Yup. Read the statute. Burden is on the detainee.

Please cite where the statute trumps the US Constitution.

 

[Rawley]

Please cite where the statute trumps the US Constitution.

It doesn't. The burden being on the detainee is not in conflict with the Constitution.

 

[martybegan]

​

I am missing the "bullshit interpretation" of them:​

Fourth Amendment​

Fourth Amendment Explained


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fifth Amendment​

Fifth Amendment Explained


No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Sixth Amendment​

Sixth Amendment Explained


In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Except being an illegal is statutory, there isn't any interpretation of fact, which is what trials are about.

You are here legally, or you are not. That's it.

So anytime you want to deport someone you want a grand jury called?

 

[progressive hunter]

Please cite where the statute trumps the US Constitution.

you have yet to show what due process even is let alone any illegal that was deported was not given a chance to provide documents proving they are here legally,,

 

[Concerned American]

It's an actual holiday that marks an actual event, that was mostly celebrated in Texas before it was made a Federal Holiday.

I'm aware of the history and I know it is a federally recognized holiday. I also agree that there are other more important days that commemorate emancipation for all and not just the few in TX who were not privy to the information because of the primitive information dissemination of the time.

 

[Zincwarrior]

It doesn't. The burden being on the detainee is not in conflict with the Constitution.

As a US citizen it certainly does. ICE can detain you, but they have the burden to prove you are not a citizen and deport you. That includes a hearing.

Federal Court Rules in Favor of U.S. Citizen Illegally Detained for Deportation by Florida Sheriff | American Civil Liberties Union

Decision affirms that U.S. citizen Peter Sean Brown was illegally detained in violation of Fourth Amendment rights

www.aclu.org

 

[Flopper]

By Law, anyone born in the United States is issued a Birth Certificate when they are born and a Death Certificate when they die. Unless her mother gave birth to her in a corn field or a gas station restroom she has a birth certificate.

That's not quite true when my housekeeper was born in late 90's. The parent fills out the forms in hospital and they are sent off to the vital statistic agency for the area. The parent get's a copy of preliminary birth certificate along with hospital bills, prescriptions, appointments, and a host of other information about caring for the newborn. Sometime later an offical birth certificate is mailed to the address given to the hospital which in this case was probably a contractor she worked for or maybe just farm where the mother worked packing or picking produce.

My housekeeper's birth mother did not pass along a birth certificate to what would become her unofficial adopted parents. This occurred when she was less than a year old. Little was know about the mother except she picked or packed in California and Arizona during that time period. There has been no contact between the birthmother and my housekeeper. Her adopted parents are legally in the US. They both are gainfully employed and have permanent jobs.

 

[Zincwarrior]

I'm aware of the history and I know it is a federally recognized holiday. I also agree that there are other more important days that commemorate emancipation for all and not just the few in TX who were not privy to the information because of the primitive information dissemination of the time.

The slaveowners were hiding the news.

 

[martybegan]

I'm aware of the history and I know it is a federally recognized holiday. I also agree that there are other more important days that commemorate emancipation for all and not just the few in TX who were not privy to the information because of the primitive information dissemination of the time.

It's in June, which is lacking holidays, and has a snappy name. It was also a spontaneous celebration created by local black Texans, which appeals to the side of the left that doesn't want to admit some white men in power at the time wanted emancipation and worked towards it.



That probably added to the choice of it.

 

[MarathonMike]

Don't know about USCIS but she is not eligible for DACA because she claims she was born in US.

No birth certificate, and she doesn't KNOW for certain anyway. Go for it.

 

[Flopper]

As a US citizen it certainly does. ICE can detain you, but they have the burden to prove you are not a citizen and deport you. That includes a hearing.

Federal Court Rules in Favor of U.S. Citizen Illegally Detained for Deportation by Florida Sheriff | American Civil Liberties Union

Decision affirms that U.S. citizen Peter Sean Brown was illegally detained in violation of Fourth Amendment rights

www.aclu.org

Before the current administration, immigration courts were responsible for handling cases where a detainee's citizenship was in question. Government attorneys and ICE investigators were tasked with determining the individual’s nationality. Legally, a person cannot be deported without establishing their citizenship, as authorities must know which country to send them to. Under international treaties, a country is only obligated to accept deportees who are confirmed citizens. If citizenship cannot be determined, the court designates the individual as stateless, triggering a separate set of legal protocols and regulations that are likely being ignored by the current administration.

 

[Dekster]

That actually advice any defense attorney will tell you. Don't talk!

Sure because if ICE is up in your grill, acting like you don't understand or speak english is going to totally convince them you are legit

 

[WelfareQueen]

That's not quite true when my housekeeper was born in late 90's. The parent fills out the forms in hospital and they are sent off to the vital statistic agency for the area. The parent get's a copy of preliminary birth certificate along with hospital bills, prescriptions, appointments, and a host of other information about caring for the newborn. Sometime later an offical birth certificate is mailed to the address given to the hospital which in this case was probably a contractor she worked for or maybe just farm where the mother worked packing or picking produce.

My housekeeper's birth mother did not pass along a birth certificate to what would become her unofficial adopted parents. This occurred when she was less than a year old. Little was know about the mother except she picked or packed in California and Arizona during that time period. There has been no contact between the birthmother and my housekeeper. Her adopted parents are legally in the US. They both are gainfully employed and have permanent jobs.

My point is a birth certificate exists under the scenario you stipulated. Millions have to get their birth certificate to obtain a passport. I have certainly done so. Your housekeeper should be able to do the same.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Sure because if ICE is up in your grill, acting like you don't understand or speak english is going to totally convince them you are legit

What on earth are you talking about? You tell them that on the advice of counsel you do not consent to search of yourself or your car/house/handbasket whatever, and you cannot speak without your attorney present. Also you are permitted to say that Texas barbeque rules and East Coast barbeque drools.