Zone1 How Did God Come Into Existence?

[Donald H]

Since God IS reality, everything we see around us then must be illusion, unreal, like a reflection in a pool of water. The reflection does not last, but while it does, it carries a few limited qualities of reality. The reflection of a tree appears to have a trunk and leaves, likewise, the temporal universe like ourselves appear to have a temporary, limited set of godly qualities of consciousness, knowledge, bliss, compassion and power.

This is all now supported in some aspects of quantum theory which is now just beginning to explore these concepts:

Is Our Universe a Hologram? Physicists Debate Famous Idea on Its 25th Anniversary

The Ads/CFT duality conjecture suggests our universe is a hologram, enabling significant discoveries in the 25 years since it was first proposed

www.scientificamerican.com

Theory of Forms

By Jaafar Bouhlal Updated on March 04, 2023

www.philoschools.com

https://www.jstor.org/stable/20098785

Theory claims to offer the first 'evidence' our Universe is a hologram

Observations of the cosmic microwave background by the University of Southampton support the holographic Universe theory and quantum gravity

www.wired.co.uk

But according to Vedic scholars, the temporal, illusory nature of what we see created around us is best understood as maya or the dance of illusion:

Maya (religion) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Maya: The greatest secret of Hinduism

www.speakingtree.in

Christianity should have learned to not dabble in pseudo-science when it was slapped down on their claim of I.D. in the Dover/Kitzmuller trial.

If the Catholic church would just amend it's beliefs back to accepting creation exclusively then all this confusion could be avoided.

The god did it all in 6 twenty-four hour days! End of discussion!

 

[toobfreak]

The god did it all in 6 twenty-four hour days! End of discussion!

WHOA. It has always been understood that God's days /are not/ the same as ours. One of God's days could last millions of our years! AS such, the 6 day description in the Bible along with "on the 7th day he rested" is understood to only be an allegory to mankind's own week so that we could better relate to it.

Sadly, not even our "days" are a fixed constant as during the Hadeon Eon, one of Earth's days was only about 6.1 hours long.

 

[Donald H]

WHOA. It has always been understood that God's days /are not/ the same as ours. One of God's days could last millions of our years! AS such, the 6 day description in the Bible along with "on the 7th day he rested" is understood to only be an allegory to mankind's own week so that we could better relate to it.

Sadly, not even our "days" are a fixed constant as during the Hadeon Eon, one of Earth's days was only about 6.1 hours long.

So he did it all in 6 minutes and then not needing a rest he shot 18 holes of golf!

 

[SweetSue92]

If He doesn't have a creator and has always been, how can this be? This part has always confused me.

We can't imagine it. We are born into time and live in time and die in time.

God is outside time, and inside time, all at the...same time. (Ha!)

These are the facets of belief that make me say: if God is God, certainly He knows better than I do. For now we see through a mirror darkly, but then face to face (1 Cor 13:12) meaning, someday we will be blessed to understand more!

 

[SweetSue92]

WHOA. It has always been understood that God's days /are not/ the same as ours. One of God's days could last millions of our years! AS such, the 6 day description in the Bible along with "on the 7th day he rested" is understood to only be an allegory to mankind's own week so that we could better relate to it.

Sadly, not even our "days" are a fixed constant as during the Hadeon Eon, one of Earth's days was only about 6.1 hours long.

I adore the beginning of Genesis. So much mystery, power and wonder.

But.

Just as adult parents do not tell young children exactly how they were created, it always strikes me that God is not telling us exactly how He created everything (for different reasons but the same premise--we're not ready yet).

Oh, He did create everything. But some things are under wraps for now, or put into terms we can understand. And that's okay. As I just typed out, if God is God, there would surely be many things He does that are beyond my understanding. I trust what He is telling us know is exactly what we can understand...with more to be revealed.

 

[ding]

There's no concensus concerning time. Ding's belief on the universe having a beginning and an end is just as possible for Christians as yours.

I think that you've just adjusted your beliefs quicker than Ding on agreeing with the latest from science.

I never said the universe has an end. Correcting you is getting old.

And that wasn't the latest from science. But since it makes you feel better about your atheism, feel free to believe it even if you don't understand it.

 

[Cougarbear]

There is no true beginning. Only a beginning of our Universe. Other than that, all life forms including God have always existed, including us. Not in the form of what we consider physical life. But, we have always existed as energy or intelligence. The level of intelligence differs between mankind and other forms of life including the earth, planets, comets and starts. The question is, can individual intelligences gain in energy or intelligence? I believe this is can happen. There we were, and some of the intelligences gained greater mass or energy and became Gods. What the absolute 1st God came to being is unknown. But, I'm sure the Gods got together and figured out how to control energy and formed and earth. Then, they figured out how to create a humanoid to place their intelligence into. After having a plan, they were able to resurrect themselves into perfect and incorruptible beings. One was the greatest of them all. From that point, since they had created male and females, they also had a wife or wives and bore spirit children to place the intelligences inside them. Then, those spirits came to an earth like ours and the process went from that point on to where eventually one person became a God and inherited His own universe with his wife. Our universe. And, the process stated all over. As man is now, God the Father once was. As God is now, man may become if he and she follow the Gospel plan of Salvation and Happiness.

 

[toobfreak]

I adore the beginning of Genesis. So much mystery, power and wonder.

Agreed. Genesis puts the creation of the universe into essentially one page in ways anyone can relate to.

Just as adult parents do not tell young children exactly how they were created, it always strikes me that God is not telling us exactly how He created everything (for different reasons but the same premise--we're not ready yet). Oh, He did create everything. But some things are under wraps for now, or put into terms we can understand. And that's okay. As I just typed out, if God is God, there would surely be many things He does that are beyond my understanding. I trust what He is telling us know is exactly what we can understand...with more to be revealed.

Point well taken. Much as Sheldon Cooper would like to think that the universe is just waiting for him to unravel, it is the height of ego and arrogance to think that any human brain can unravel and understand something a septillion septillion raised to the septillion power yotta cubic miles in size larger than it that is 200 million times older than the oldest human life created by divine forces parcel to an unlimited, infinite, eternal cause.

But whereas the Bible stops at just one page, some older religions have tried far harder going into vast detail trying to describe the Creation devoting whole chapters and volumes to the matter.

Pretty interesting really, especially that as time goes on, after centuries of religion and science diverging from one another, now they are coming closer and closer to agreeing.

 

[Cougarbear]

Agreed. Genesis puts the creation of the universe into essentially one page in ways anyone can relate to.


Point well taken. Much as Sheldon Cooper would like to think that the universe is just waiting for him to unravel, it is the height of ego and arrogance to think that any human brain can unravel and understand something a septillion septillion raised to the septillion power yotta cubic miles in size larger than it that is 200 million times older than the oldest human life created by divine forces parcel to an unlimited, infinite, eternal cause.

But whereas the Bible stops at just one page, some older religions have tried far harder going into vast detail trying to describe the Creation devoting whole chapters and volumes to the matter.

Pretty interesting really, especially that as time goes on, after centuries of religion and science diverging from one another, now they are coming closer and closer to agreeing.

A better word for the Hebrew is he "Organized" matter that wasn't formed yet. The matter was there when he was given the right to have his own universe.

 

[toobfreak]

I never said the universe has an end.

And isn't that the beauty of it? The universe is not like a pool where you can swim to the edge and touch a wall. There is no center nor edge. If we were to go to one of the furthest galaxies in the Hubble Deep Field, we here would appear at the edge now and they would think everything centered around them, no closer to seeing "the edge." Worse, when you went there, instead of nascent proto-galaxies as we see, they would be just as old or older than the Milky Way.

We live in an information and observation paradox--- everything we see and know in the universe short of right here on Earth is dated, not as it is, but as it once was. Even when we look up at the Sun in the sky, we are not seeing the Sun as it is, but only as it was about 8.7 minutes ago. That is even evident in a thunderstorm where you see a flash of lightning on the horizon, but don't hear the thunder rolling in until several seconds later. Werner Heisenberg got it right when he said that the universe is far stranger than we can ever know.

 

[ding]

There is no true beginning. Only a beginning of our Universe. Other than that, all life forms including God have always existed, including us. Not in the form of what we consider physical life. But, we have always existed as energy or intelligence. The level of intelligence differs between mankind and other forms of life including the earth, planets, comets and starts. The question is, can individual intelligences gain in energy or intelligence? I believe this is can happen. There we were, and some of the intelligences gained greater mass or energy and became Gods. What the absolute 1st God came to being is unknown. But, I'm sure the Gods got together and figured out how to control energy and formed and earth. Then, they figured out how to create a humanoid to place their intelligence into. After having a plan, they were able to resurrect themselves into perfect and incorruptible beings. One was the greatest of them all. From that point, since they had created male and females, they also had a wife or wives and bore spirit children to place the intelligences inside them. Then, those spirits came to an earth like ours and the process went from that point on to where eventually one person became a God and inherited His own universe with his wife. Our universe. And, the process stated all over. As man is now, God the Father once was. As God is now, man may become if he and she follow the Gospel plan of Salvation and Happiness.

You shouldn't rely on Joseph Smith for your science.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And who invented humans?

Nobody did.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

, it always strikes me that God is not telling us exactly how He created everything

Obviously. And easy to say, for a more.modern person who has the advantage of modern scientific discovery under his belt.

Here is a gift to the apologists:

Perhaps God showed all of the history of the universe to Moses. Big Bang, evolution, all of it.

But Moses, possessing the tiny, limited mind of a human could only retain some of the highlights and did not possess rhe understanding or the language to fully understand and describe, for example, evolution.

So what came out of the other end (much of the OT) was just the best that the puny mind of an ignorant, Iron aged human could do.

 

[Cougarbear]

You shouldn't rely on Joseph Smith for your science.

We are discussing God, not science. You apparently shouldn't rely on your intellect either.

 

[onefour1]

LEGOs. Two kids in a more giant universe built him from LEGOs.


Seriously, it is part of the steady state concept. Since God is infinitely larger than us, our perceptions of him are very limited in what we can know, but as far as we can tell, God is beyond time, in fact, he CREATES time, so, by being beyond/above time, how can he be IN time? He can't since he creates time, so, how can he have a "beginning" or "end," both of which are concepts IN time?

Therefore, the easiest way to understand God's timeless, eternal nature is to understand that God is the only thing truly REAL. Everything else is temporal, unreal, a temporary reflection of some finite aspect of a higher reality, thus, for 70 years, we come into being with a finite consciousness reflecting God's unlimited infinite everlasting consciousness because consciousness is being.

What does it mean when we say, "God created time"? What is time? At what point did God create time? What was it like before time was created? Did no events transpire so that some events were before other events? If so then some events would have been in the past of other events and some events would have occurred in the future of other events. Would not this be a form of time? Would all of God's actions be simultaneous and happening at every moment or would they be spread out over ?time?. Before creating time, would all of God's existence, thoughts, doings, etc occur simultaneously and at every moment since there was no time? Where in the Bible does it say that God created time? I do believe that God created time as opposed to eternity in that this mortal life is subject to a beginning and end and thus will run out of time eventually but in eternity are there no consecutive events? Is there no past and future? When God supposedly created time, does this mean that time from then on existed in the eternities?

My personal view is that the passage of events has always existed and that God did not create the passage of events. However, God did create a temporal existence where our mortal life has a beginning and an end.

 

[onefour1]

WHOA. It has always been understood that God's days /are not/ the same as ours. One of God's days could last millions of our years! AS such, the 6 day description in the Bible along with "on the 7th day he rested" is understood to only be an allegory to mankind's own week so that we could better relate to it.

Sadly, not even our "days" are a fixed constant as during the Hadeon Eon, one of Earth's days was only about 6.1 hours long.

2 Peter 3:8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[frigidweirdo]

If He doesn't have a creator and has always been, how can this be? This part has always confused me.

There are things were can't possibly hope to understand.

How did life come about? We simply don't know. How do atoms, because that's all everything is made out of (well, not everything like light, but everything "physical" that we can touch).

We don't even understand how our brains function, let along how anything can always have existed.

 

[toobfreak]

What does it mean when we say, "God created time"? What is time? At what point did God create time? What was it like before time was created? Did no events transpire so that some events were before other events? If so then some events would have been in the past of other events and some events would have occurred in the future of other events. Would not this be a form of time? Would all of God's actions be simultaneous and happening at every moment or would they be spread out over ?time?. Before creating time, would all of God's existence, thoughts, doings, etc occur simultaneously and at every moment since there was no time? Where in the Bible does it say that God created time? I do believe that God created time as opposed to eternity in that this mortal life is subject to a beginning and end and thus will run out of time eventually but in eternity are there no consecutive events? Is there no past and future? When God supposedly created time, does this mean that time from then on existed in the eternities?

I counted 14 questions, so I get the feeling your mind is just rambling and you are really not interested in answers.

My personal view is that the passage of events has always existed

That goes without saying, as for an event to exist, they must PASS in TIME. And since something can only "exist" in time, your statement becomes self-fulfilling.

and that God did not create the passage of events.

God is God, God is the creator or all, God is the original cause of everything to be God, which leaves your feeling as a non-sequitur.

However, God did create a temporal existence where our mortal life has a beginning and an end.

Sweet. This statement contradicts your previous one so both CANNOT be true. Nice.

 

[ding]

We are discussing God, not science. You apparently shouldn't rely on your intellect either.

That's good because the science of your theology is flawed.

 

[Cougarbear]

That's good because the science of your theology is flawed.

There’s nothing flawed with our perfect God who will decide all of our eternal fates. Your science will never catch up to God. It’s his Universe he organized the science.