What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

How come no mention of the fall of the Temple in A.D. 70 in the NT?

Clyde 154

Gold Member
Joined
May 30, 2021
Messages
347
Reaction score
137
Points
143
I am curious about that one now..



(This is an estimate no exact year is possible)



New Testament

James--A.D. 44-49
Galatians--A.D. 49-50
Matthew--A.D. 50-60
Mark--A.D. 50-60
1 Thessalonians--A.D. 51
2 Thessalonians--A.D. 51-52
1 Corinthians--A.D. 55
2 Corinthians--A.D. 55-56
Romans-- A.D. 56
Luke--A.D. 60-61
Ephesians--A.D. 60-62
Philippians--A.D. 60-62
Philemon--A.D. 60-62
Colossians--A.D. 60-62
Acts--A.D. 62
1 Timothy--A.D. 62-64
Titus--A.D. 62-64
1 Peter--A.D. 64-65
2 Timothy--A.D. 66-67
2 Peter--A.D. 67-68
Hebrews--A.D. 67-69
Jude--A.D. 68-70
John--A.D. 80-90
1 John--A.D. 90-95
2 John--A.D. 90-95
3 John--A.D. 90-95
Revelation--A.D. 94-96









The Romans Destroy the Temple

at Jerusalem, 70 AD


In the year 66 AD the Jews of Judea rebelled against their Roman masters. In response, the Emperor Nero dispatched an army under the generalship of Vespasian to restore order. By the year 68, resistance in the northern part of the province had been eradicated and the Romans turned their full attention to the subjugation of Jerusalem. That same year, the Emperor Nero died by his own hand, creating a power vacuum in Rome. In the resultant chaos, Vespasian was declared Emperor and returned to the Imperial City. It fell to his son, Titus, to lead the remaining army in the assault on Jerusalem.


Roman Centurian
The Roman legions surrounded the city and began to slowly squeeze the life out of the Jewish stronghold. By the year 70, the attackers had breached Jerusalem's outer walls and began a systematic ransacking of the city. The assault culminated in the burning and destruction of the Temple that served as the center of Judaism.

In victory, the Romans slaughtered thousands. Of those sparred from death: thousands more were enslaved and sent to toil in the mines of Egypt, others were dispersed to arenas throughout the Empire to be butchered for the amusement of the public. The Temple's sacred relics were taken to Rome where they were displayed in celebration of the victory.

The rebellion sputtered on for another three years and was finally extinguished in 73 AD with the fall of the various pockets of resistance including the stronghold at Masada.

"...the Jews let out a shout of dismay that matched the tragedy."

Our only first-hand account of the Roman assault on the Temple comes from the Jewish historian Josephus Flavius. Josephus was a former leader of the Jewish Revolt who had surrendered to the Romans and had won favor from Vespasian. In gratitude, Josephus took on Vespasian's family name - Flavius - as his own. We join his account as the Romans fight their way into the inner sanctum of the Temple:

"...the rebels shortly after attacked the Romans again, and a clash followed between the guards of the sanctuary and the troops who were putting out the fire inside the inner court; the latter routed the Jews and followed in hot pursuit right up to the Temple itself. Then one of the soldiers, without awaiting any orders and with no dread of so momentous a deed, but urged on by some supernatural force, snatched a blazing piece of wood and, climbing on another soldier's back, hurled the flaming brand through a low golden window that gave access, on the north side, to the rooms that surrounded the sanctuary. As the flames shot up, the Jews let out a shout of dismay that matched the tragedy; they flocked to the rescue, with no thought of sparing their lives or husbanding their strength; for the sacred structure that they had constantly guarded with such devotion was vanishing before their very eyes.



...No exhortation or threat could now restrain the impetuosity of the legions; for passion was in supreme command. Crowded together around the entrances, many were trampled down by their companions; others, stumbling on the smoldering and smoked-filled ruins of the porticoes, died as miserably as the defeated. As they drew closer to the Temple, they pretended not even to hear Caesar's orders, but urged the men in front to throw in more firebrands. The rebels were powerless to help; carnage and flight spread throughout.

Most of the slain were peaceful citizens, weak and unarmed, and they were butchered where they were caught. The heap of corpses mounted higher and higher about the altar; a stream of blood flowed down the Temple's steps, and the bodies of those slain at the top slipped to the bottom.
No mention? No Matthew 24 in your bible, or is it another misapplication of Matthew 24? What? Is there an assumption that the Christ is addressing the end of the world entirely in Matthew 24. This cannot be because Jesus states that not even He knows when the end of the world will come about (Matt. 24:36-39)......the end of the world will come like a thief in the night, people will be making marry as in the days of Noah.

To even understand Matthew 24 and Jesus' prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple....as always one must stay in context.....you first must read Chapter 23. In Matthew 23 we find Jesus bringing many charges to the Jewish leaders/hierarchy by their mistreatment of God's laws (Matt. 23:1-32). Then Jesus concludes His preaching and condemnation of the leadership by making a prophecy about their immediate future. (Matt.23:32-36). Jesus points out that the Jews had killed God's people in the past. Even though the current generation of leaders thought they were above such charges.....Jesus stated that they continued the practice of killing righteous people.......and they were just as guilty as their forefathers ..........and God's punishment or wrath would FALL UPON THAT VERY GENERATION.....the generation that Jesus was addressing in the 1st century.

Jesus pointed out to His disciples that the Temple would be destroyed to the point that not one stone would be left unturned. At this time all Jesus disciples were Jews and to them such a prophecy surely must be speaking of the end of the entire world for the temple could never be destroyed while the earth survived. Thus, its easy to see why modern men might also assume Jesus is speaking of the end of the world when He is actually addressing God's punishment upon Israel in the 1st century for their sins against God.

The disciples shortly thereafter asked the Christ 1. When will this prophecy come true (Jesus addresses the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple...before moving on to the end of the world prophecy 2. what would be the sign of your (Jesus') coming 3. What will be the sign of the end of the age?

Jesus actually answered the real question not the question His disciples thought they were asking (they assumed Jesus was addressing the end of the world when He was actually addressing the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple).

Jesus warned them that the destruction of the city and the temple would come very shortly, in fact it would come in their very generation -- Matt. 23:36, Matt. 24:34 (and it did in the 1st century AD). Some would not taste death until they saw the kingdom of God come (Matt.16:28) The Greek words translated for "this generation" do not refer to an age, but to the people living at the time Jesus was speaking. (For reference read Matt. 11:16-19 where Jesus is scolding that generation for not paying attention to John the Baptist and Jesus Himself. Its the same Greek wording.

Jesus states that the times leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem would be unusual, as wars would increase, there would be famines, and earthquakes (Matt. 24:6-8).......(all historically happened between 50-70AD when Rome was occupying Israel) in the 1st century and burning it to the ground).

Before the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple the gospel would be preached to the known world (Matt24:14). The world keeps getting smaller and smaller with the speed of communication being greater and greater. Paul states that this was fulfilled, gospel preached to the known world in (Col. 1:23), "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, AND WHICH HAS BEEN PREACHED TO EVERY CREATURE WHICH UNDER HEAVEN; where of I Paul am made a minster; "

Jesus referenced the Book of Daniel (abomination of desolation) when He prophesied that Rome and its army would surround Jerusalem just prior to the desolation (Luke 21:20).

Jesus stated to anyone that paid heed to these signs of the destruction of Jerusalem.......they must flee the city before destruction comes (Matt. 24:16-32). He said they should pray that the time for flight would not come when in the winter when one's fleeing might be hindered/slowed.....or on a Sabbath when the gates of the City of Jerusalem would be closed. He warned them there might be false prophets claiming to be the Christ returning (Matt. 24:23-28).

Jesus said many would ignore the signs.........but the Christians. History tells us that indeed the Christians heeded the warning signs and not 1 Christian perished during the destruction of the City, they were not there.
 
Last edited:

norwegen

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
9,959
Reaction score
4,898
Points
390
Location
Ormond Beach, FL
The new heaven and earth is a new time.

The destruction of the temple was the end of an era.

The Seas aren't going anywhere.

In Revelation "seas" is symbolic of danger and chaos.
Jerusalem, in fact, is a new heaven and a new earth after liberation from Babylon (Is 65:17-18). Before that, Babylon was heaven and earth.

Where anyone gets the idea that heaven and earth is a reference to the cosmos and not to authority or dynasty is beyond me.
 

norwegen

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
9,959
Reaction score
4,898
Points
390
Location
Ormond Beach, FL
norwegen

No one is calling God a liar. "Seas" in the book of Revelation means chaos and danger.

Its not futuristic.
The sea was the unknown, where strangers came from. Strangers larger than life, if they were powerful. Like giants. Nephilim, even.
 

norwegen

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
9,959
Reaction score
4,898
Points
390
Location
Ormond Beach, FL
The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” And there were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, and a great earthquake such as there had never been since man was on the earth, so great was that earthquake. The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered Babylon the great, to make her drain the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath. And every island fled away, and no mountains were to be found. And great hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, fell from heaven on people; and they cursed God for the plague of the hail, because the plague was so severe. (Rv 16:17-21)​

“It is done!” proclaimed God from the crumbling temple. Although the Scriptures nowhere mention the term “final judgment,” Old Covenant Israel clearly undergoes this fate. The tribes of the once-great Abrahamic empire are shaken. The established citadels of power suffer the fury of God’s wrath. The islands flee and the mountains disappear. The Revelator employs the hyperbolic language of his forebears in describing a great shake-up in the covenant between God and man (Jb 14:18; Ps 46:2-3; Is 40:4). In the words of Foy Wallace, “All the seats of authority and power of the Jewish theocracy faded away and disappeared. The fall of Jerusalem and the demolition of the temple effected the complete abrogation of Judaism and the abolition of the Jewish state.” As Jesus foretold just a few years earlier, the fig tree comes down:

A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. And he said to the vinedresser, ‘Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?’ And he answered him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and put on manure. Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.’ (Lk 13:6-9)​



https://www.usmessageboard.com/#_ednref1 Foy E. Wallace, Jr., The Book of Revelation: Consisting of a Commentary on the Apocalypse of the New Testament (Fort Smith, AR: Richard E. Black, PDF version of ninth printing), 337.
 

surada

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
21,534
Reaction score
10,600
Points
1,108
Jerusalem, in fact, is a new heaven and a new earth after liberation from Babylon (Is 65:17-18). Before that, Babylon was heaven and earth.

Where anyone gets the idea that heaven and earth is a reference to the cosmos and not to authority or dynasty is beyond me.

Yes. That makes perfect sense.
 

Episcopius

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
106
Reaction score
78
Points
48
I can't swallow all of the LATE DATES some scholars push for New Testament books and especially Revelation.
 

Episcopius

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
106
Reaction score
78
Points
48
I smell Dominic Crossan

I have seen that list of dates - dunno if it was that exact site
 

irosie91

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
76,540
Reaction score
8,745
Points
2,030
Is the phrase "BABYLON IS HEAVEN AND EARTH" supposed to make sense to anyone?
 

surada

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
21,534
Reaction score
10,600
Points
1,108
Information on 2 Thessalonians
Second Thessalonians is widely regarded as pseudonymous. The reference in 2:2 suggests that the letter belongs to the deutero-Pauline period, and the letter may have been intended to replace 1 Thessalonians entirely. The time of composition is likely to have been in the last two decades of the first century when hopes in the imminent parousia were faltering.

Bart Ehrman observes (The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, p. 23): "The frequent occurence of forgery in this period does not suggest a basic tolerance of the practice. In actuality, it was widely and strongly condemned, sometimes even within documents that are themselves patently forged. This latter ploy serves, of course, to throw the scent off one's own deceit. One of its striking occurrences is in the orthodox Apostolic Constitutions, a book of ecclesiastical instructions, ostensibly written in the name of Jesus' apostles, which warns its readers to avoid books falsely written in the name of Jesus' apostles (VI, 16). One cannot help thinking of 2 Thessalonians, which cautions against letters falsely penned in Paul's name (2:1-2); many New Testament scholars believe that 2 Thessalonians is itself non-Pauline."
 

Episcopius

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
106
Reaction score
78
Points
48
Ehrman, huh? Sign me up tonight.

And scholars say Peter didn't write 2 Peter.
And that Paul didn't write the letters to Timothy and Titus.

Let's just throw 'em all out - they're all fake
 

Episcopius

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
106
Reaction score
78
Points
48
"Is the phrase "BABYLON IS HEAVEN AND EARTH" supposed to make sense to anyone?"

irosie - it only makes sense to THE ELECT

Anyone NOT OF THE ELECT should leave this thread now!
 

surada

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
21,534
Reaction score
10,600
Points
1,108
Is the phrase "BABYLON IS HEAVEN AND EARTH" supposed to make sense to anyone?

Jeremiah 51:48 48Then heaven and earth and all that is in them will shout for joy over Babylon, for out of the north destroyers will attack her," declares the LORD.
 

irosie91

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
76,540
Reaction score
8,745
Points
2,030
Jeremiah 51:48 48Then heaven and earth and all that is in them will shout for joy over Babylon, for out of the north destroyers will attack her," declares the LORD.
oh----jeremiah is shouting for joy over the destruction of Babylon. I usually do not like to INTERPRET HOLEY ROMAN EMPIRE TRANSLATIONS, but that does not seem to be an endorsement to me.
Jeremiah is my all time fave pessimist
 

Episcopius

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
106
Reaction score
78
Points
48
2Pe 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Now the Full Preterists define the "elements" in a way that can be seen as having already melted with fervent heat.

I am Partial Preterist, and cannot swallow everything that the Fulls put out, but Babylon and Jerusalem can appear as various things

Rev 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

So that can be Jerusalem and/or Babylon
 

surada

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
21,534
Reaction score
10,600
Points
1,108
2Pe 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Now the Full Preterists define the "elements" in a way that can be seen as having already melted with fervent heat.

I am Partial Preterist, and cannot swallow everything that the Fulls put out, but Babylon and Jerusalem can appear as various things

Rev 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

So that can be Jerusalem and/or Babylon

How could it be Babylon? Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem.
 

Episcopius

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
106
Reaction score
78
Points
48
1Pe 5:13

The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Some vague reference - is Peter calling Jerusalem Babylon, like Revelation was calling Jerusalem Sodom?
 

DudleySmith

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Messages
3,793
Reaction score
2,278
Points
918
The 2nd Temple was a 'Babylonian church', built by Babylonian Jews, financed by a Persian.
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$20.00
Goal
$350.00

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top