Honestly I like Bernie; Students should study for free

[Andylusion]

It actually doesn't work there, but people like Grace will never admit it. If Norwegians could live here for a couple of years at a salary that American Norwegians make, they would definitely prefer to live here. The only reason they don't is because of years of brainwashing.

It works well but like all systems it has flaws. We moved to the US not because my parents would make more money but because my mom was born and raised here and wanted to move back to the US because at the time my grandmother passed away and she wanted to be home with her dad and family. We've been living here ever since. You couldn't hold dual citizenship in Norway up until literally this year and so we were here to stay.

Define "it works well"? Depends on how you define works well.

People in Norway earn less than Americans. This is universally true, of nearly all of Europe. And this is logical. The employer can't pay you in wages, what it pays the government in taxes, and naturally higher taxes on employers, means lower wages for employees.

Additionally, Norway has a much lower survival rate for major illnesses than the US does. You have a better chance of surviving in the US, for nearly any illness at all, than you do in Norway.

Now it is true, that Norway has one of the better health care systems in all of Europe. True!

It also has the second most expensive health systems in all of Europe.

Meaning that as things go on, Norway is on the verge of facing a health care crisis.
IT could help avert Norwegian healthcare crisis

The government run system is getting more and more expensive, and they don't have a solution as of yet.

So, if you are to say that the second most expensive system in all of Europe.... if have much lower survival rates than the US... and if having burdensome taxes high enough that people live a lower standard of living as a result....

if that is how you define "works well", then I agree... works very well.

 

[Grace Is Stoked]

It actually doesn't work there, but people like Grace will never admit it. If Norwegians could live here for a couple of years at a salary that American Norwegians make, they would definitely prefer to live here. The only reason they don't is because of years of brainwashing.

It works well but like all systems it has flaws. We moved to the US not because my parents would make more money but because my mom was born and raised here and wanted to move back to the US because at the time my grandmother passed away and she wanted to be home with her dad and family. We've been living here ever since. You couldn't hold dual citizenship in Norway up until literally this year and so we were here to stay.

Define "it works well"? Depends on how you define works well.

People in Norway earn less than Americans. This is universally true, of nearly all of Europe. And this is logical. The employer can't pay you in wages, what it pays the government in taxes, and naturally higher taxes on employers, means lower wages for employees.

Additionally, Norway has a much lower survival rate for major illnesses than the US does. You have a better chance of surviving in the US, for nearly any illness at all, than you do in Norway.

Now it is true, that Norway has one of the better health care systems in all of Europe. True!

It also has the second most expensive health systems in all of Europe.

Meaning that as things go on, Norway is on the verge of facing a health care crisis.
IT could help avert Norwegian healthcare crisis

The government run system is getting more and more expensive, and they don't have a solution as of yet.

So, if you are to say that the second most expensive system in all of Europe.... if have much lower survival rates than the US... and if having burdensome taxes high enough that people live a lower standard of living as a result....

if that is how you define "works well", then I agree... works very well.

The US medical system and technology is top quality, that's absolutely true, but the flaw in the system here is the out of pocket costs for average Americans, would you agree? Wages in Norway are high but so are the tax rates and so your take home pay in Norway is pretty much what you see is what you get. In the US you can have a decent wage, pay less in taxes, but one trip to the ER and you can easily drop $1,000 plus for a brief afternoon visit even with insurance. If it's more serious then it can get very out of hand for a middle class American who typically can't afford to drop several paychecks on a medical bill. So there is a trade off would you agree?

One system has the technology and accessibilty but potentially large out of pocket expenses even with health insurance, and the other system has not as great of technology or accessibility but once you meet your yearly deductible you don't pay anything else out of pocket. I know for me i'd personally rather pay more in taxes and ensure that I will have care that won't yield unexpected major medical expenses than I would to pay less in taxes and risk the unexpected and then try and figure out how to pay the bill. Right now my husband and I are always one major medical issue away from going from little to no debt up to large debt, and that's a common fear for most Americans in my personal opinion.

 

[Andylusion]

It actually doesn't work there, but people like Grace will never admit it. If Norwegians could live here for a couple of years at a salary that American Norwegians make, they would definitely prefer to live here. The only reason they don't is because of years of brainwashing.

It works well but like all systems it has flaws. We moved to the US not because my parents would make more money but because my mom was born and raised here and wanted to move back to the US because at the time my grandmother passed away and she wanted to be home with her dad and family. We've been living here ever since. You couldn't hold dual citizenship in Norway up until literally this year and so we were here to stay.

Define "it works well"? Depends on how you define works well.

People in Norway earn less than Americans. This is universally true, of nearly all of Europe. And this is logical. The employer can't pay you in wages, what it pays the government in taxes, and naturally higher taxes on employers, means lower wages for employees.

Additionally, Norway has a much lower survival rate for major illnesses than the US does. You have a better chance of surviving in the US, for nearly any illness at all, than you do in Norway.

Now it is true, that Norway has one of the better health care systems in all of Europe. True!

It also has the second most expensive health systems in all of Europe.

Meaning that as things go on, Norway is on the verge of facing a health care crisis.
IT could help avert Norwegian healthcare crisis

The government run system is getting more and more expensive, and they don't have a solution as of yet.

So, if you are to say that the second most expensive system in all of Europe.... if have much lower survival rates than the US... and if having burdensome taxes high enough that people live a lower standard of living as a result....

if that is how you define "works well", then I agree... works very well.

The US medical system and technology is top quality, that's absolutely true, but the flaw in the system here is the out of pocket costs for average Americans, would you agree? Wages in Norway are high but so are the tax rates and so your take home pay in Norway is pretty much what you see is what you get. In the US you can have a decent wage, pay less in taxes, but one trip to the ER and you can easily drop $1,000 plus for a brief afternoon visit even with insurance. If it's more serious then it can get very out of hand for a middle class American who typically can't afford to drop several paychecks on a medical bill. So there is a trade off would you agree?

One system has the technology and accessibilty but potentially large out of pocket expenses even with health insurance, and the other system has not as great of technology or accessibility but once you meet your yearly deductible you don't pay anything else out of pocket. I know for me i'd personally rather pay more in taxes and ensure that I will have care that won't yield unexpected major medical expenses than I would to pay less in taxes and risk the unexpected and then try and figure out how to pay the bill. Right now my husband and I are always one major medical issue away from going from little to no debt up to large debt, and that's a common fear for most Americans in my personal opinion.

First... you are wonderful. I love chatting with people who disagree, but do so politely.

You and I may never come to an agreement on this topic, but we can at least be friendly, and I want you to know I appreciate that from you. You have a good character.

So yes, the cost of health care is higher than it could be.

There are large number of reasons for this.

1. Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicare and Medicaid do not pay enough money to cover the cost of care. This drives up costs on people like us. When you get a huge bill from the Hospital, you need to understand that your huge bill, is due to government run health care. You can see above, that has government payouts declined, hospitals and care providers increased costs on private patients, to make up the difference.

2. Regulations on hospitals.

Hospitals are highly regulated in the US, and the worst of these is the Certificate of Need (CON). CON laws, require that if you wish to open a hospital, you have to have a CON. Without that CON, you cannot open a hospital.

Now as with all regulations and controls, the people who most know about the system, are not politicians. Politicians don't have any idea if any given location needs a new hospital. Who would? Why, existing hospitals of course.

So the people who determine whether or not to issue a CON, are the existing hospitals.

Let us say that you yourself, come up with a new idea for providing a cheap alternative hospital for the public. You plan it out, and the government shows up "You need a Certificate of Need before you do that", so you go to the committee the issues CONs, and find all the other hospitals there, and they say "Oh you want to open a hospital that will provide care for a much lower price? Hmmm... I don't think we need another hospital".

Well that's what's going on. The government is using regulations to lock out competition in the health care market. If you want to know how that works, just imagine how high the prices would be at Walmart, if no one could open a competing store without a Certificate of Need.

3. Doctors and Medical Schools.

As much as we'd like to think doctors and higher education, is all about the good of the country, neither are. They are both self-interested.

Alone though, they could do nothing, but with the power of government, they can screw over an entire nation.

The government has restricted the ability of anyone to open competing medical schools. The government did this, because doctors, and existing medical schools wanted this done.

Why did they want this done? Because as with any supply and demand system, if you limit the number of schools, and the demand for schools increase, then medical schools can charge outrageous amounts of money. Which is exactly what they did.

Now you would think doctors would be against this, but they are most certainly for it, because keeping the number of Medical schools low and limited, reduces the number of doctors there are. That naturally again, means supply of doctors is low, while demand is high, thus doctors can charge high prices for their services.

Government once again, has caused a dramatic increase in the cost of medical care.

4. Regulations on insurance.

Every regulation on insurance, has pushed up the cost of insurance. One of the reasons why pre-existing condition clauses existed, was to prevent you, being a responsible person, being forced to pay for those who are not responsible.

Say I refuse to get insurance. I could have insurance, but I simply don't want to spend the $100 a month to have my own insurance. You on the other hand, are responsible, and you buy health insurance, and pay the $100 a month.

I get cancer. I contact an insurance company, and quickly sign up for insurance. Then I show up at the hospital, and well what do you know, I have insurance. Now the insurance company has to pay for my cancer treatment, even though I intentionally was irresponsible. And if I survive the cancer, I'll just cancel my insurance.

Insurance companies, like all companies, do not have just bags of money laying around to cover losses like that. So how does the insurance company survive such events? Same way all businesses have to survive. They charge customers more. Namely you. You end up paying a higher premimum for your insurance policy, specifically to cover people like me, who refuse to get insurance until their sick.

The only alternative to charging you more, is to have a pre-existing condition clause. By the way, this is why under Obama Care, they put in place the individual mandate to penalize people for not buying insurance, because they banned the pre-existing condition clause.

Of course it didn't work. The cost of the penalty was too low to make people buy insurance, and besides that, we are not supposed to be an authoritarian dictatorship, at least last I checked.

But that isn't all, there are hundreds of examples of regulations driving up insurance costs, like most states require insurance cover acupuncture. Other examples, Marriage counseling, alcoholism, drug addictions, mental illness.

Take myself for example. I have not had an alcoholic drink since the 1990s. Yet I have to pay for an insurance policy that covers alcoholism. Well that costs more.

5. Regulations on how health care is conducted.

So years ago, there was a freak out in the media over Hospital Aspirin. Why does it cost $20 or $30 to get an Aspirin in a hospital, when you can get a bottle of 500 pills for $15 at a store?

Well there's an answer. If you go into a US regulated hospital, you will find that Aspirin is individually wrapped. Each pill, or set of two pills, has it's on individual wrapper. Additionally, you will find that Aspirin is being given out by a highly paid Registered Nurse.

This costs money.

Now you compare that to many hospitals around the world, they have a economy bottle of Aspirin, and they have an intern or someone in training, handing out the medication.

This is cheap.

Government regulations on how Hospitals operate causes this. There is no reason that a hospital must have a highly paid registered nurse, buying super expensive individually wrapped pills, in order to hand out Aspirin. But regulations require it, because if some patient dies, and they find out a non-registered nurse gave out the pill... then they sue for incompetence, and the government steps in.

6. Lastly, a standard of service.

Now this is a difficult one, because it's going to come across as blaming the victim, but the reality is, it is entirely true.

Americans, when they are not directly paying the bill, demand service that is expensive.

A perfect contrary example to this would be Singapore. Like many hospitals around the world, they don't have tiny rooms with 2 beds, and curtains everywhere. Instead they have large floors that house 6 to 9 patients per room. There is no air conditioning, there is no cable TV, there is no WIFI, and high speed internet.

Of course, that is what makes it cheap. In Singapore, a base level bed, only costs $20 per night. But everyone ignores how different that base level bed is. Most are not even adjustable, not electric. There is no privacy either.

Singapore does have, small private rooms with all those things we think are normal and common in US health care, and unsurprisingly the price of those rooms in Singapore, is about the same as a normal room in the US is.

This drastically drives up the cost of health care, relative to the rest of the world. We want all that stuff in our hospital rooms. We want almost private, two beds to a room standards. We want air conditioning instead of just ceiling fans.

But that costs money.

I could go on....

But I think I made my point.

Again, thank you for being polite even when you disagree. That is fantastic, and I hope we can talk again, even if you never agree with me or me with you on anything.

 

[Dekster]

I think Im voting for Bernie. Students shouldn’t have to worry about debt and loans while studying to fix our broken society. These loans are immoral and need to be forgiven.

Also anyone working full time deserves a comfortable $15/hour wage and free medical care.

Thats all

Okay but if they are getting free college, they should have to work in the cafeteria or do all the janitoring and such themselves as well. That is part of the model at the COllege of the Ozarks where people attend for free but they have to work for the school.

 

[San Souci]

Yes I would. Randomness is just cruel.

Lets say we have 10 dice.
Capitalism: Random rolls, some 6, some 1, who knows
Democratic Socialism: We patiently place each dice down on a 4 or 5. Everyone does well.

How is that bad?

Life has nothing to do with DICE

It does in Vegas.

 

[Slade3200]

Haha, So science teachers and bio class are teaching about gender issues? Is that what you think is happening?

Are you suggesting that teachers in any other class, are not required to be scientific? Doesn't that make the case that we should also teach Biblical 6-days of creation?

I’m just asking which teachers in which classes are conducting this indoctrination? Be specific

Ms., Mr., or Mx.? Nonbinary teachers embrace gender-neutral honorific

Luebbert is a nonbinary, 9th grade English teacher in a Philadelphia public school. Luebbert uses they/them pronouns and has their students address them with honorific Mx. — a gender-neutral alternative to the gendered Mr., Ms., Miss and Mrs. that most of us grew up using for our teachers.
​

If you really need more examples, I can get them.

Examples of what?! That’s a person identifying and living they way they want to live. It’s not teaching and indoctrinating. Kids are going to grow up and be surrounded by a diversity of people in public, in travel, in the workplace. Just because they are exposed doesn’t mean they are being indoctrinated. Just as a Muslim teacher doesn’t automatically imply the kids are being indoctrinated on Islam.

Any other brain buster examples you’d like to share?

So you are justifying this. That just makes you part of the anti-science community.

Am I Justifying what? Allowing gender neutral people to be teachers? Are you wanting to make that illegal or something?

 

[BrokeLoser]

Are you suggesting that teachers in any other class, are not required to be scientific? Doesn't that make the case that we should also teach Biblical 6-days of creation?

I’m just asking which teachers in which classes are conducting this indoctrination? Be specific

Ms., Mr., or Mx.? Nonbinary teachers embrace gender-neutral honorific

Luebbert is a nonbinary, 9th grade English teacher in a Philadelphia public school. Luebbert uses they/them pronouns and has their students address them with honorific Mx. — a gender-neutral alternative to the gendered Mr., Ms., Miss and Mrs. that most of us grew up using for our teachers.
​

If you really need more examples, I can get them.

Examples of what?! That’s a person identifying and living they way they want to live. It’s not teaching and indoctrinating. Kids are going to grow up and be surrounded by a diversity of people in public, in travel, in the workplace. Just because they are exposed doesn’t mean they are being indoctrinated. Just as a Muslim teacher doesn’t automatically imply the kids are being indoctrinated on Islam.

Any other brain buster examples you’d like to share?

So you are justifying this. That just makes you part of the anti-science community.

Am I Justifying what? Allowing gender neutral people to be teachers? Are you wanting to make that illegal or something?

How far are you willing to go? Would you accept and help normalize those who identify as a salmon?
Sounds fucking loony doesn’t it? It’s coming...bank on it.

 

[Markle]

I think Im voting for Bernie. Students shouldn’t have to worry about debt and loans while studying to fix our broken society. These loans are immoral and need to be forgiven.

Also anyone working full time deserves a comfortable $15/hour wage and free medical care.

Thats all

 

[Markle]

Yes I would. Randomness is just cruel.

Lets say we have 10 dice.
Capitalism: Random rolls, some 6, some 1, who knows
Democratic Socialism: We patiently place each dice down on a 4 or 5. Everyone does well.

How is that bad?

 

[Slade3200]

I’m just asking which teachers in which classes are conducting this indoctrination? Be specific

Ms., Mr., or Mx.? Nonbinary teachers embrace gender-neutral honorific

Luebbert is a nonbinary, 9th grade English teacher in a Philadelphia public school. Luebbert uses they/them pronouns and has their students address them with honorific Mx. — a gender-neutral alternative to the gendered Mr., Ms., Miss and Mrs. that most of us grew up using for our teachers.
​

If you really need more examples, I can get them.

Examples of what?! That’s a person identifying and living they way they want to live. It’s not teaching and indoctrinating. Kids are going to grow up and be surrounded by a diversity of people in public, in travel, in the workplace. Just because they are exposed doesn’t mean they are being indoctrinated. Just as a Muslim teacher doesn’t automatically imply the kids are being indoctrinated on Islam.

Any other brain buster examples you’d like to share?

So you are justifying this. That just makes you part of the anti-science community.

Am I Justifying what? Allowing gender neutral people to be teachers? Are you wanting to make that illegal or something?

How far are you willing to go? Would you accept and help normalize those who identify as a salmon?
Sounds fucking loony doesn’t it? It’s coming...bank on it.

I wouldn’t expect the small minded bigots to understand. Don’t stress yourself out trying.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

I think Im voting for Bernie. Students shouldn’t have to worry about debt and loans while studying to fix our broken society. These loans are immoral and need to be forgiven.

Also anyone working full time deserves a comfortable $15/hour wage and free medical care.

Thats all

The idea is to promote the general welfare not bankroll it. The tax payer shouldn't have to pay for someones Phd in gender studies.

 

[Markle]

investing in education is investing in our future...

For the USA to continue to be a GREAT NATION we need the best education for our children....AVAILABLE at AFFORDABLE COSTS.

I have no idea why conservatives want America to fail because of substandard education.

I think it makes them traitors.

The United States is the greatest nation the world has ever seen. We got that way with folks paying for higher education. By paying it has value and is not taken for granted.

We also have the highest quality of healthcare in the world because it is a for-profit system. If you have any doubt, share with us all which other nation or group of nations that have contributed more new life-extending or life-saving drugs, technology, or procedures than the US.

Anyone who wants to change that is a traitor not only to us but the rest of the world as well.

 

[Markle]

There are over five million real people living in Norway right now including relatives of mine which includes one of my grandparents and my dad's sister and her family. They have families of their own which includes children. Money isn't taken from them and never seen again the money goes towards paying for services that go back to the children and back to adults as well. From healthcare to education to youth sports and recreation, to cultural and social facilities, and so on they get back what they put in but what they get back is accessible to everyone equally. They aren't a faceless collective they are there right now living their lives same as you and I. If I were to take that system and apply it here it would take a lot of things to happen, many of those i've laid out already several times on here like increased taxation, the usage of capitalism to help fund social programs, and most importantly culture change which is the biggest hurdle. As i've said the system there isn't perfect, no system is perfect including the US, but that doesn't mean you can't find solutions to our issues here by looking abroad, you can, and vice versa.

Norway has a class society into which you are born and have little chance of moving up. There is no motivation to get out of college. It's FREE so stay as long as you can.

Do you honestly think that you could ever, except under force of a gun, have Americans volunteer to pay the extraordinary taxes paid by the Scandanavian Countries? PLUS the Value Added Tax of 25%.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Maybe it's time you come out of your self-flattering utopian dreams and recognize that they have real-world consequences, and the real people whose real lives would bear those consequences don't appreciate it, and REALLY don't appreciate being told that THEY are the bad guys for disagreeing.

Ok but I’m also talking about real people, and I haven’t claimed that people who disagree with me are bad. I haven’t called anybody bad actually. I’ve been comparing systems and giving my own personal opinion on my own personal experiences with both systems. I’ve even said that I wouldn’t even want to force a new system in this country without a significant voluntary culture change happening since that’s the only real way it would potentially succeed and I’ve also said that no system is perfect or utopian. Please read my previous response again and you will see that we probably agree on some things.

No, honey, you really aren't talking about real people. You're talking about some generalized, amorphous, apocryphal group. Real people would be my children, to whom I gave birth and from whom you wish to take money to spend on your unnamed, faceless collective.

There are over five million real people living in Norway right now including relatives of mine which includes one of my grandparents and my dad's sister and her family. They have families of their own which includes children. Money isn't taken from them and never seen again the money goes towards paying for services that go back to the children and back to adults as well. From healthcare to education to youth sports and recreation, to cultural and social facilities, and so on they get back what they put in but what they get back is accessible to everyone equally. They aren't a faceless collective they are there right now living their lives same as you and I. If I were to take that system and apply it here it would take a lot of things to happen, many of those i've laid out already several times on here like increased taxation, the usage of capitalism to help fund social programs, and most importantly culture change which is the biggest hurdle. As i've said the system there isn't perfect, no system is perfect including the US, but that doesn't mean you can't find solutions to our issues here by looking abroad, you can, and vice versa.

Right, and that system will not work here. The idea that you can take a system that works in Norway's extremely homogeneous society, in a population of 5 Million, and you are going to apply that system to a extremely diverse, and internally conflicted country like the US, with 310 Million people....

It's not going to work.

Moreover, I've read that many of the wealthy in Norway, leave the country for health care, while the poor and middle class are left on waiting lists for months at a time.

That doesn't sound like equal access, unless you mean equally bad for the non-rich.

It actually doesn't work there, but people like Grace will never admit it. If Norwegians could live here for a couple of years at a salary that American Norwegians make, they would definitely prefer to live here. The only reason they don't is because of years of brainwashing.

I actually don't give a damn if it works there or not. I rather noticeably DON'T LIVE IN NORWAY. If I wanted to live in Norway's idea of a great society, I'd move there. I haven't. Nor have I ever indicated in any way that Norway is my ideal for anything at all.

I'm sick unto death of leftists prattling at me about how this country or that one does things differently in the insane belief that that means something.

 

[anynameyouwish]

investing in education is investing in our future...

For the USA to continue to be a GREAT NATION we need the best education for our children....AVAILABLE at AFFORDABLE COSTS.

I have no idea why conservatives want America to fail because of substandard education.

I think it makes them traitors.

The United States is the greatest nation the world has ever seen. We got that way with folks paying for higher education. By paying it has value and is not taken for granted.

We also have the highest quality of healthcare in the world because it is a for-profit system. If you have any doubt, share with us all which other nation or group of nations that have contributed more new life-extending or life-saving drugs, technology, or procedures than the US.

Anyone who wants to change that is a traitor not only to us but the rest of the world as well.

"The United States is the greatest nation the world has ever seen."


define "greatest"

it isn't in the top 10 of HAPPIEST countries....

turns out countries YOU HATE (social democracies) are much happier than Americans

communist/socialist china rivals us in economy and most people seem to think they will soon have the number one economy in the world.

and they have much less crime!

1/3 of the country wants to kill another 1/3

aren't most goods sold in the USA from china?

aren't MOST trump products made in china? (like...80%?)


we spend 9-10 times MORE on defense than the next 9 nations COMBINED, at least 4 of whom hate us, and according to conservative think tanks and media we would be hard pressed to beat any one of those "enemies" and would have little chance against a multi-nation attack.


and our enemies OPENLY mock us!

russia state tv has a a wonderful time EVERY DAY mocking trump, Americans and America.....



trump has alienated NATO and the EU who no longer trust us so we can no longer rely on their help in a war

even YOU admit "our education is failing" so obviously we aren't GREAT at that.....

so...how are we so great?
simply because you get to behave like a nazi?
is THAT what makes America so great for you?


" We got that way with folks paying for higher education. By paying it has value and is not taken for granted."


at a time when people could AFFORD to pay for it!

back then a family of 4 or 5
father working
mom at home
3 kids
earned enough to send all 3 kids to college!


today....no way!
college is MUCH TOO EXPENSIVE these days.....


BAD comparison.


"We also have the highest quality of healthcare in the world because it is a for-profit system. If you have any doubt, share with us all which other nation or group of nations that have contributed more new life-extending or life-saving drugs, technology, or procedures than the US."


Kindly don't confuse me with a supporter of Obama care.

I oppose ALL KINDS OF GOVERNMENT MANDATED INSURANCE programs.

I believe in a FREE MARKET MEDICAL system.
But I also believe that SOME people are so poor they can't afford basic medical care (dentistry?)

SO I have no problem donating from my pocket into the government trough to help the less fortunate amongst us.

In fact, as I assume you would NOT donate to that trough, I have no problem allowing you the right to NOT pay into socialized medicine as long as you understand that YOU can NEVER USE that socialized medicine for yourself.



"Anyone who wants to change that is a traitor not only to us but the rest of the world as well. "


You believe in a dog eat dog America

I believe in a kinder, gentler America...

A shining city on a hill.....

 

[Grace Is Stoked]

There are over five million real people living in Norway right now including relatives of mine which includes one of my grandparents and my dad's sister and her family. They have families of their own which includes children. Money isn't taken from them and never seen again the money goes towards paying for services that go back to the children and back to adults as well. From healthcare to education to youth sports and recreation, to cultural and social facilities, and so on they get back what they put in but what they get back is accessible to everyone equally. They aren't a faceless collective they are there right now living their lives same as you and I. If I were to take that system and apply it here it would take a lot of things to happen, many of those i've laid out already several times on here like increased taxation, the usage of capitalism to help fund social programs, and most importantly culture change which is the biggest hurdle. As i've said the system there isn't perfect, no system is perfect including the US, but that doesn't mean you can't find solutions to our issues here by looking abroad, you can, and vice versa.

Norway has a class society into which you are born and have little chance of moving up. There is no motivation to get out of college. It's FREE so stay as long as you can.

Do you honestly think that you could ever, except under force of a gun, have Americans volunteer to pay the extraordinary taxes paid by the Scandanavian Countries? PLUS the Value Added Tax of 25%.

I'm sorry but you are very misinformed. Norway does not have a class system. A class system would be contrary to the culture there and would go against the idea of janteloven. Yes there are wealthy people, there is a very large middle to upper middle class, and there are poor people but you aren't stuck in a group based on what you were born into. You also have plenty of opportunity to "move up" but moving up is not the same in Norway as it is in the United States. Moving up in the United States is a bigger home, bigger paycheck, more materials, more title within your business or community. Ambition exists in Norway but it's not based on the success of the individual and it's not how high up you can climb. Your definition or idea of moving up is not an acceptable definition of moving up in Norway. I was born in Norway and I wasn't born into a "class" of citizen.

Also while tuition is "free" in Norway you do still pay semester fees and there aren't career students like you are implying. Universities are a little different in Norway than they are here and are a little more specialized. Graduation rates are higher in Norway than in the US and students in Norway are just as goal oriented as students here and want to finish. In fact a student that abuses the system like that would be looked down on by Norwegians since it would again go against the societal culture. Everyone pays into the system and contributes to these systems and so if a person makes it more about them by being selfish, for example staying in college as long as you can to seemingly get out of being an adult, would be an extreme outlier and considered rude and wrong. I am a walking example of a product of their education system. I attended barnehage before moving to the US and went back to spend time as a student at the University of Bergen. I don't know where you are getting your information from but it's biased and very inaccurate in my opinion. Please if you have an opportunity go spend some time in Norway.

 

[Grace Is Stoked]

Ok but I’m also talking about real people, and I haven’t claimed that people who disagree with me are bad. I haven’t called anybody bad actually. I’ve been comparing systems and giving my own personal opinion on my own personal experiences with both systems. I’ve even said that I wouldn’t even want to force a new system in this country without a significant voluntary culture change happening since that’s the only real way it would potentially succeed and I’ve also said that no system is perfect or utopian. Please read my previous response again and you will see that we probably agree on some things.

No, honey, you really aren't talking about real people. You're talking about some generalized, amorphous, apocryphal group. Real people would be my children, to whom I gave birth and from whom you wish to take money to spend on your unnamed, faceless collective.

There are over five million real people living in Norway right now including relatives of mine which includes one of my grandparents and my dad's sister and her family. They have families of their own which includes children. Money isn't taken from them and never seen again the money goes towards paying for services that go back to the children and back to adults as well. From healthcare to education to youth sports and recreation, to cultural and social facilities, and so on they get back what they put in but what they get back is accessible to everyone equally. They aren't a faceless collective they are there right now living their lives same as you and I. If I were to take that system and apply it here it would take a lot of things to happen, many of those i've laid out already several times on here like increased taxation, the usage of capitalism to help fund social programs, and most importantly culture change which is the biggest hurdle. As i've said the system there isn't perfect, no system is perfect including the US, but that doesn't mean you can't find solutions to our issues here by looking abroad, you can, and vice versa.

Right, and that system will not work here. The idea that you can take a system that works in Norway's extremely homogeneous society, in a population of 5 Million, and you are going to apply that system to a extremely diverse, and internally conflicted country like the US, with 310 Million people....

It's not going to work.

Moreover, I've read that many of the wealthy in Norway, leave the country for health care, while the poor and middle class are left on waiting lists for months at a time.

That doesn't sound like equal access, unless you mean equally bad for the non-rich.

It actually doesn't work there, but people like Grace will never admit it. If Norwegians could live here for a couple of years at a salary that American Norwegians make, they would definitely prefer to live here. The only reason they don't is because of years of brainwashing.

I actually don't give a damn if it works there or not. I rather noticeably DON'T LIVE IN NORWAY. If I wanted to live in Norway's idea of a great society, I'd move there. I haven't. Nor have I ever indicated in any way that Norway is my ideal for anything at all.

I'm sick unto death of leftists prattling at me about how this country or that one does things differently in the insane belief that that means something.

It's ok to look outside of your home for ideas. It seems irresponsible to me in my opinion to close your eyes to potential alternatives or to just simply consider other ideas and see how they could work here. It's not a negative reflection on your patriotism to do that.

 

[Slade3200]

investing in education is investing in our future...

For the USA to continue to be a GREAT NATION we need the best education for our children....AVAILABLE at AFFORDABLE COSTS.

I have no idea why conservatives want America to fail because of substandard education.

I think it makes them traitors.

The United States is the greatest nation the world has ever seen. We got that way with folks paying for higher education. By paying it has value and is not taken for granted.

We also have the highest quality of healthcare in the world because it is a for-profit system. If you have any doubt, share with us all which other nation or group of nations that have contributed more new life-extending or life-saving drugs, technology, or procedures than the US.

Anyone who wants to change that is a traitor not only to us but the rest of the world as well.

i don’t see a problem with efforts to provide education and healthcare for those who don’t have money. Being healthy and educated are the keys to opportunity and opportunity is what has made the USA the greatest country in the world. Funding community colleges like we do Grade school and improving Medicare/Medicaid programs to take care of our sick aren’t bad ideas. Members of both parties should be working together to try and make that happen instead of acting like children calling eachother evil and stupid

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, honey, you really aren't talking about real people. You're talking about some generalized, amorphous, apocryphal group. Real people would be my children, to whom I gave birth and from whom you wish to take money to spend on your unnamed, faceless collective.

There are over five million real people living in Norway right now including relatives of mine which includes one of my grandparents and my dad's sister and her family. They have families of their own which includes children. Money isn't taken from them and never seen again the money goes towards paying for services that go back to the children and back to adults as well. From healthcare to education to youth sports and recreation, to cultural and social facilities, and so on they get back what they put in but what they get back is accessible to everyone equally. They aren't a faceless collective they are there right now living their lives same as you and I. If I were to take that system and apply it here it would take a lot of things to happen, many of those i've laid out already several times on here like increased taxation, the usage of capitalism to help fund social programs, and most importantly culture change which is the biggest hurdle. As i've said the system there isn't perfect, no system is perfect including the US, but that doesn't mean you can't find solutions to our issues here by looking abroad, you can, and vice versa.

Right, and that system will not work here. The idea that you can take a system that works in Norway's extremely homogeneous society, in a population of 5 Million, and you are going to apply that system to a extremely diverse, and internally conflicted country like the US, with 310 Million people....

It's not going to work.

Moreover, I've read that many of the wealthy in Norway, leave the country for health care, while the poor and middle class are left on waiting lists for months at a time.

That doesn't sound like equal access, unless you mean equally bad for the non-rich.

It actually doesn't work there, but people like Grace will never admit it. If Norwegians could live here for a couple of years at a salary that American Norwegians make, they would definitely prefer to live here. The only reason they don't is because of years of brainwashing.

I actually don't give a damn if it works there or not. I rather noticeably DON'T LIVE IN NORWAY. If I wanted to live in Norway's idea of a great society, I'd move there. I haven't. Nor have I ever indicated in any way that Norway is my ideal for anything at all.

I'm sick unto death of leftists prattling at me about how this country or that one does things differently in the insane belief that that means something.

It's ok to look outside of your home for ideas. It seems irresponsible to me in my opinion to close your eyes to potential alternatives or to just simply consider other ideas and see how they could work here. It's not a negative reflection on your patriotism to do that.

It's okay to look outside your home for ideas to achieve your goals. If you're looking outside your home for your goals and priorities, you should consider moving.

 

[j-mac]

I think Im voting for Bernie. Students shouldn’t have to worry about debt and loans while studying to fix our broken society. These loans are immoral and need to be forgiven.

Also anyone working full time deserves a comfortable $15/hour wage and free medical care.

Thats all

Thank Teddy Kennedy for the inflated cost of college tuition....

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