Honest and open debate on gun control

[2aguy]

899 posts, no sound response.

Yes or no, can you or can you not use a machine gun that does not exist. This is not a hard question. Any rational person could answer this question. Why do you insist on deflecting?

That keeps getting funnier.......

 

[danielpalos]

I have no problem with gun lovers registering for posse duty whenever it may be required, in exchange for keeping and bearing Arms in public venues; and, not Only that, avoiding posse duty should be as serious as avoiding jury duty.

Lower our Tax Burden and end that involuntary income transfer by ending our War on Crime.

Only Bad Socialists and worse Capitalists have a War on Crime, paid for with the (other) Peoples' money.

 

[RKMBrown]

899 posts, no sound response.

Yes or no, can you or can you not use a machine gun that does not exist. This is not a hard question. Any rational person could answer this question. Why do you insist on deflecting?

That keeps getting funnier.......

Sometimes the truth is funny as hell. Sometimes it's just the truth. Sometimes the truth is there for you to learn something from.

 

[danielpalos]

no sound response.

am i too honest and too open for gun lovers?

 

[JOSweetHeart]

Guns are the tools that allow the weak to fight off the strong......we should be very proud of that....

I agree. What are people who can not take up for themselves supposed to do when their lives are being threatened?

God bless you and them always!!!

Holly

 

[2aguy]

899 posts, no sound response.

Yes or no, can you or can you not use a machine gun that does not exist. This is not a hard question. Any rational person could answer this question. Why do you insist on deflecting?

That keeps getting funnier.......

Sometimes the truth is funny as hell. Sometimes it's just the truth. Sometimes the truth is there for you to learn something from.

No...what is funny when you keep posting that nonsense...about tax stamps making machine guns disappear.......when they are still available to anyone who wants them.

And again...why don't criminals use AR-15s more......they are not that big a weapon, and are readily available for reasonable prices...especially if you steal them.

 

[RKMBrown]

899 posts, no sound response.

Yes or no, can you or can you not use a machine gun that does not exist. This is not a hard question. Any rational person could answer this question. Why do you insist on deflecting?

That keeps getting funnier.......

Sometimes the truth is funny as hell. Sometimes it's just the truth. Sometimes the truth is there for you to learn something from.

No...what is funny when you keep posting that nonsense...about tax stamps making machine guns disappear.......when they are still available to anyone who wants them.

And again...why don't criminals use AR-15s more......they are not that big a weapon, and are readily available for reasonable prices...especially if you steal them.

Yes or no, can you or can you not use a machine gun that does not exist. This is not a hard question. Any rational person could answer this question. Why do you insist on deflecting?

 

[M14 Shooter]

908 posts... no sound response.

 

[Brain357]

908 posts... no sound response.

You live in fantasy land.

 

[RKMBrown]

908 posts... no sound response.

908 posts... and the OP is still deflecting from the FACT that the tax stamp process has reduced, SIGNIFICANTLY, the number of machine guns available TO THE PUBLIC, thus providing a working solution to the OPs question.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

908 posts... no sound response.

908 posts... and the OP is still deflecting from the FACT that the tax stamp process has reduced, SIGNIFICANTLY, the number of machine guns available TO THE PUBLIC, thus providing a working solution to the OPs question.

What up Brown, the stamps have cut down on fully automatic weapons available to the general public.

Used to you could go to the local gun store and get fully automatic Uzi's and lower receivers for many sportster style long guns.

Here in Georgia the tax stamp for a fully automatic weapon is $25.00 .................

Contrary to popular belief, fully auto weapons can be and are in possession of private citizens.

I don't see what the minor monetary fee does to deter machine guns as much as the regulation and accountability for manufacturers and distributors who vend these parts and weapons for monetary gains.

In the black market / sub culture there will always be fully automatic weapons to contend with.

Tax stamps will have zero influence on their existence / trade.

It is much easier to stop the flow from the source out, than the bottom up ........................

 

[danielpalos]

No honesty or openness on the part of gun lovers?

I have no problem with gun lovers registering for posse duty whenever it may be required, in exchange for keeping and bearing Arms in public venues; and, not Only that, avoiding posse duty should be as serious as avoiding jury duty.

Lower our Tax Burden and end that involuntary income transfer by ending our War on Crime.

Only Bad Socialists and worse Capitalists have a War on Crime, paid for with the (other) Peoples' money.

 

[RKMBrown]

908 posts... no sound response.

908 posts... and the OP is still deflecting from the FACT that the tax stamp process has reduced, SIGNIFICANTLY, the number of machine guns available TO THE PUBLIC, thus providing a working solution to the OPs question.

What up Brown, the stamps have cut down on fully automatic weapons available to the general public.

Used to you could go to the local gun store and get fully automatic Uzi's and lower receivers for many sportster style long guns.

Here in Georgia the tax stamp for a fully automatic weapon is $25.00 .................

Contrary to popular belief, fully auto weapons can be and are in possession of private citizens.

I don't see what the minor monetary fee does to deter machine guns as much as the regulation and accountability for manufacturers and distributors who vend these parts and weapons for monetary gains.

In the black market / sub culture there will always be fully automatic weapons to contend with.

Tax stamps will have zero influence on their existence / trade.

It is much easier to stop the flow from the source out, than the bottom up ........................

Yeah I'm talking about the entire tax stamp process, which includes the draconian law that bans all civilian access to fully automatic weapons manufactured post 1986. The cost of the stamp is pretty much irrelevant ATM but they could make it as much as they want now. The part that matters is the banning of all new machine guns for civilian use. Now you have to be in security or work for the government to get a new one. Bastards. Which of course is why pre 1986 machine guns are selling for an order of magnitude more than what they are worth.

First they start with a simple tax stamp and a database.. then they come in with the blankety blank laws that ban weapons of a certain type and use their process to administrate it all. But hey if you have more money than 90% of the population you can afford to out bid the other folks to buy one of the old ones that are starting to fall into disrepair. Oh but that's ok you can't afford the ammo anyway since you are fighting the government for access to that too and they have their hands in our back pockets to pay for their ammo.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

[
Yeah I'm talking about the entire tax stamp process, which includes the draconian law that bans all civilian access to fully automatic weapons manufactured post 1986. The cost of the stamp is pretty much irrelevant ATM but they could make it as much as they want now. The part that matters is the banning of all new machine guns for civilian use. Now you have to be in security or work for the government to get a new one. Bastards. Which of course is why pre 1986 machine guns are selling for an order of magnitude more than what they are worth.

First they start with a simple tax stamp and a database.. then they come in with the blankety blank laws that ban weapons of a certain type and use their process to administrate it all. But hey if you have more money than 90% of the population you can afford to out bid the other folks to buy one of the old ones that are starting to fall into disrepair. Oh but that's ok you can't afford the ammo anyway since you are fighting the government for access to that too and they have their hands in our back pockets to pay for their ammo.

No, all you need is a gun smith or a machinist who is qualified to modify the lower receivers.

Would not know for sure but with the advent of carbon nano fibers for 3D printers, working lower receivers may be a thing easily accomplishable.

If you want to limit civilian fire power you limit the amount of available primers on the market and ammunition.

That is why they tried to ban the green tip .223 NATO rd.

If you don't have ammo, those black powder muskets are gonna be pretty much useless ........................


Is The Obama Administration The Cause Of Gun Ammunition Shortages?
Comment Now
Follow Comments

(Photo credit: Cory M. Grenier)

The reason for the ammunition shortage should be obvious. After all, with gun sales continuing to break records all those people buying semiautomatic rifles and handguns need a lot of ammunition. Anyone who has used a semiautomatic rifle or handgun to shoot self-resetting steel targets knows that ammo always seems to be in short supply.

Nevertheless, finding bare shelves that have always been stacked with boxes of ammo has made some wonder if the government has been up to something.

It’s easy to understand this worry. As gun sales break records—partly because of fear of coming gun control from the Obama administration—supplies of ammo ran so low that gun stores and ranges have to ration ammunition. Meanwhile, rumors of mass purchases of ammunition made by government entities began to fly around the Internet. Making all this even worse is that fact that it hasn’t been a short-term supply problem. Now well over a year since the shortages of popular types of ammo began there are still empty shelves and rationing here and there around the United States.

Mix this series of events with a media that doesn’t understand the issue enough to explain it (even if they could drop their biases long enough to try), add a pinch of understandable paranoia from some gun owners and ka-boom!

Such an explosion, in fact, that many ammo makers have felt compelled to publish explanations. Also, the National Rifle Association (NRA) felt compelled by its membership to investigate and the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), the trade association for gun, ammo and related businesses, decided to look into the problem. There was even a congressional hearing.

At the hearing, Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah), who chairs one of the House oversight subcommittees, noted that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is using roughly 1,000 rounds of ammunition more per person than the U.S. Army. “It is entirely … inexplicable why the Department of Homeland Security needs so much ammunition,” said Chaffetz.
Is The Obama Administration The Cause Of Gun Ammunition Shortages - Forbes

 

[RKMBrown]

[
Yeah I'm talking about the entire tax stamp process, which includes the draconian law that bans all civilian access to fully automatic weapons manufactured post 1986. The cost of the stamp is pretty much irrelevant ATM but they could make it as much as they want now. The part that matters is the banning of all new machine guns for civilian use. Now you have to be in security or work for the government to get a new one. Bastards. Which of course is why pre 1986 machine guns are selling for an order of magnitude more than what they are worth.

First they start with a simple tax stamp and a database.. then they come in with the blankety blank laws that ban weapons of a certain type and use their process to administrate it all. But hey if you have more money than 90% of the population you can afford to out bid the other folks to buy one of the old ones that are starting to fall into disrepair. Oh but that's ok you can't afford the ammo anyway since you are fighting the government for access to that too and they have their hands in our back pockets to pay for their ammo.

No, all you need is a gun smith or a machinist who is qualified to modify the lower receivers.

Would not know for sure but with the advent of carbon nano fibers for 3D printers, working lower receivers may be a thing easily accomplishable.

If you want to limit civilian fire power you limit the amount of available primers on the market and ammunition.

That is why they tried to ban the green tip .223 NATO rd.

If you don't have ammo, those black powder muskets are gonna be pretty much useless ........................


Is The Obama Administration The Cause Of Gun Ammunition Shortages?
Comment Now
Follow Comments

(Photo credit: Cory M. Grenier)

The reason for the ammunition shortage should be obvious. After all, with gun sales continuing to break records all those people buying semiautomatic rifles and handguns need a lot of ammunition. Anyone who has used a semiautomatic rifle or handgun to shoot self-resetting steel targets knows that ammo always seems to be in short supply.

Nevertheless, finding bare shelves that have always been stacked with boxes of ammo has made some wonder if the government has been up to something.

It’s easy to understand this worry. As gun sales break records—partly because of fear of coming gun control from the Obama administration—supplies of ammo ran so low that gun stores and ranges have to ration ammunition. Meanwhile, rumors of mass purchases of ammunition made by government entities began to fly around the Internet. Making all this even worse is that fact that it hasn’t been a short-term supply problem. Now well over a year since the shortages of popular types of ammo began there are still empty shelves and rationing here and there around the United States.

Mix this series of events with a media that doesn’t understand the issue enough to explain it (even if they could drop their biases long enough to try), add a pinch of understandable paranoia from some gun owners and ka-boom!

Such an explosion, in fact, that many ammo makers have felt compelled to publish explanations. Also, the National Rifle Association (NRA) felt compelled by its membership to investigate and the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), the trade association for gun, ammo and related businesses, decided to look into the problem. There was even a congressional hearing.

At the hearing, Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah), who chairs one of the House oversight subcommittees, noted that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is using roughly 1,000 rounds of ammunition more per person than the U.S. Army. “It is entirely … inexplicable why the Department of Homeland Security needs so much ammunition,” said Chaffetz.
Is The Obama Administration The Cause Of Gun Ammunition Shortages - Forbes

Sure you can make a fully automatic weapon. And if you get caught it's probably gonna be a decade in the pen.

 

[BlackSand]

Sure you can make a fully automatic weapon. And if you get caught it's probably gonna be a decade in the pen.

Not to mention Randy Weaver's wife was eventually shot as the results circumstances that initially involved a sawed off shotgun.

.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Yeah I'm talking about the entire tax stamp process, which includes the draconian law that bans all civilian access to fully automatic weapons manufactured post 1986. The cost of the stamp is pretty much irrelevant ATM but they could make it as much as they want now. The part that matters is the banning of all new machine guns for civilian use. Now you have to be in security or work for the government to get a new one. Bastards. Which of course is why pre 1986 machine guns are selling for an order of magnitude more than what they are worth.

First they start with a simple tax stamp and a database.. then they come in with the blankety blank laws that ban weapons of a certain type and use their process to administrate it all. But hey if you have more money than 90% of the population you can afford to out bid the other folks to buy one of the old ones that are starting to fall into disrepair. Oh but that's ok you can't afford the ammo anyway since you are fighting the government for access to that too and they have their hands in our back pockets to pay for their ammo.

None of this proves your claim that...

The reason machine guns are not used in crimes is because of the tax stamp process.

Tens of thousands of guns have been legally transferred to individuals under this process -- prove your claim that the tax stamp process is the reason these guns have not been used in crimes.

 

[RKMBrown]

Yeah I'm talking about the entire tax stamp process, which includes the draconian law that bans all civilian access to fully automatic weapons manufactured post 1986. The cost of the stamp is pretty much irrelevant ATM but they could make it as much as they want now. The part that matters is the banning of all new machine guns for civilian use. Now you have to be in security or work for the government to get a new one. Bastards. Which of course is why pre 1986 machine guns are selling for an order of magnitude more than what they are worth.

First they start with a simple tax stamp and a database.. then they come in with the blankety blank laws that ban weapons of a certain type and use their process to administrate it all. But hey if you have more money than 90% of the population you can afford to out bid the other folks to buy one of the old ones that are starting to fall into disrepair. Oh but that's ok you can't afford the ammo anyway since you are fighting the government for access to that too and they have their hands in our back pockets to pay for their ammo.

None of this proves your claim that...

The reason machine guns are not used in crimes is because of the tax stamp process.

Tens of thousands of guns have been legally transferred to individuals under this process -- prove your claim that the tax stamp process is the reason these guns have not been used in crimes.

You're not listening. Or you are incapable of listening. Or you are just deflecting. What I proved is that the part of the tax stamp process that reduces the number of machines guns available for public sale to civilians, clearly reduces the number of machine guns, period. Additionally since there are more civilians than there are machine guns built prior to 1986 that were set to be allowed for use by civilians, there is a limit to the number of civilians that can possibly have legal ownership at a single point in time of said weapons. Essentially it boils down to the OBVIOUS FACT that when a machine gun is destroyed or not even allowed to be built and sold, that machine gun can't be used, EVER. As for your continued attempts to move the goal post from reduction of crime to PROOF OF COMPLETE ELIMINATION OF ALL CRIME AROUND THE WORLD BY EVERY HUMAN BEING IN EXISTENCE FROM HERE TO THE END OF TIME IMORTAL.. well that's just a stupid ass attempt to move the goal posts.

The OP question was "(1) prevents criminals from getting guns." Destruction and/or making it illegal to build and sell machine guns to civilians reduces the number of guns available to criminals. Thus, prevents. Prevents does not mean eliminate all access.. the bar for prevention is reduction not elimination. Thus preventing some access is equivalent to preventing / or making it harder to access.

Full Definition of PREVENT
1a: to be in readiness for (as an occasion)b : to meet or satisfy in advancec : to act ahead ofd : to go or arrive before
2: to deprive of power or hope of acting or succeeding
3: to keep from happening or existing <steps to prevent war>
4: to hold or keep back : hinder, stop —often used with from
Examples of PREVENT

1. 
   
   
   • Seatbelts in cars often prevent serious injuries.
   • Can exercise and a healthy diet prevent heart disease?
   • The accident could have been prevented.
   • He grabbed my arm to prevent me from falling.
   • Bad weather prevented us from leaving.
   • How are you going to prevent him from finding out about the party?

Here's my example... the tax stamp process prevents criminals from getting guns. Said another way... the tax stamp process hinders criminals from getting guns.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You're not listening.

I am.
You said:

The reason machine guns are not used in crimes is because of the tax stamp process.

I responded:

Tens of thousands of guns have been legally transferred to individuals under this process -- prove your claim that the tax stamp process is the reason these guns have not been used in crimes.

You have yet to do so.
Because you know you cannot.

 

[M14 Shooter]

908 posts... no sound response.

908 posts... and the OP is still deflecting from the FACT that the tax stamp process has reduced, SIGNIFICANTLY, the number of machine guns available TO THE PUBLIC, thus providing a working solution to the OPs question.

What up Brown, the stamps have cut down on fully automatic weapons available to the general public.

But as I am sure you will agree, the reason machine guns are not used in crimes is NOT because of the tax stamp process. contrary to his claim.