Hitler's circle of evil: Netflix

[iamwhatiseem]

Interesting to me...like I say I never really delved all that deep into Hitler and the Third Reich. Everything I have ever seen always painted Hitler as the driving force of all of the terrible events done by the Nazis. The camps/holocaust etc. But that simply isn't true. Hitler was psychopath. He was a narcissistic egomaniac. He indeed was a racist, an extreme nationalist - all of these things.
The Final Solution.... the infamous creed and document all loyalist had to sign. - He wasn't the author, it was Reinhard Heydrich.
The concentration camps and wholesale mass murdering Jews.... Himmler. Heydrich was having jews dig deep trenches and lining them up and shooting them. Himmler didn't like the "messiness" of this and wanted it to be more organized, so he and Heydrich devised the gas chambers. - Hitler approved them, but he didn't think of them.
In fact at the beginning Hitler wasn't interested or motivated to even beat jews...that was Goebbels that used the SA troops to start riots and beat jews. Hitler was worried everyday Germans wouldn't accept the violence... he himself had no problem with it, but was worried about the political fallout.

Not in any way trying to defend Hitler in any way. Absolute mad man.
But he wasn't really the one who sought out to eradicate jews, and certainly not by genocide.
That was a combination of Goebbels, Himmler and Heydrich.

no hitler = no WW2 = no Holocaust/etc ..he was the driving force

Absolutely not true.
If you went back in time and shot Hitler, there most likely would have still been a WW II.
There were PLENTY of other people in high power who believed the only way Germany could get out poverty and shame was war. Specifically Ernst Rohm. One of the founding members of the Nazi Party and ran their militia before Hitler was a blip on the radar. He was the most decorated German officer in WW I. And was relegated to performing air stunts to make a living. He was desperate for a return of German glory and military might.
Joseph Goebbels, some in the party wanted him to lead not Hitler. He was fanatically an anti Semite and like I said orchestrated Jewish persecution that Hitler frowned upon, but tolerated it because of the support he had by ranking party members.
What I am saying is it seems it is over simplistic to think Hitler "did it all". The truth is, he actually did little of it. Hitler was more interested in glorifying himself with pomp and flare than getting his hands dirty and doing the work. He spent weeks high in the mountains of his retreat in the middle of the war. He wasn't even present in many of the war room meetings. Hitlers power was in Himmler's fanatical devotion to him and the SS troops he controlled. The first sign of a HINT of anything but total devotion to Hitler and your done. That was the hold he had.

hitler loved Jews?

Yes that is exactly what I said.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Interesting to me...like I say I never really delved all that deep into Hitler and the Third Reich. Everything I have ever seen always painted Hitler as the driving force of all of the terrible events done by the Nazis. The camps/holocaust etc. But that simply isn't true. Hitler was psychopath. He was a narcissistic egomaniac. He indeed was a racist, an extreme nationalist - all of these things.
The Final Solution.... the infamous creed and document all loyalist had to sign. - He wasn't the author, it was Reinhard Heydrich.
The concentration camps and wholesale mass murdering Jews.... Himmler. Heydrich was having jews dig deep trenches and lining them up and shooting them. Himmler didn't like the "messiness" of this and wanted it to be more organized, so he and Heydrich devised the gas chambers. - Hitler approved them, but he didn't think of them.
In fact at the beginning Hitler wasn't interested or motivated to even beat jews...that was Goebbels that used the SA troops to start riots and beat jews. Hitler was worried everyday Germans wouldn't accept the violence... he himself had no problem with it, but was worried about the political fallout.

Not in any way trying to defend Hitler in any way. Absolute mad man.
But he wasn't really the one who sought out to eradicate jews, and certainly not by genocide.
That was a combination of Goebbels, Himmler and Heydrich.

no hitler = no WW2 = no Holocaust/etc ..he was the driving force

Absolutely not true.
If you went back in time and shot Hitler, there most likely would have still been a WW II.
There were PLENTY of other people in high power who believed the only way Germany could get out poverty and shame was war. Specifically Ernst Rohm. One of the founding members of the Nazi Party and ran their militia before Hitler was a blip on the radar. He was the most decorated German officer in WW I. And was relegated to performing air stunts to make a living. He was desperate for a return of German glory and military might.
Joseph Goebbels, some in the party wanted him to lead not Hitler. He was fanatically an anti Semite and like I said orchestrated Jewish persecution that Hitler frowned upon, but tolerated it because of the support he had by ranking party members.
What I am saying is it seems it is over simplistic to think Hitler "did it all". The truth is, he actually did little of it. Hitler was more interested in glorifying himself with pomp and flare than getting his hands dirty and doing the work. He spent weeks high in the mountains of his retreat in the middle of the war. He wasn't even present in many of the war room meetings. Hitlers power was in Himmler's fanatical devotion to him and the SS troops he controlled. The first sign of a HINT of anything but total devotion to Hitler and your done. That was the hold he had.

wrong --absolutely true ---they didn't vote and elect someone else to lead--they elected and appointed hitler
..and a lot of generals/admirals were against wars/etc....
Goebbels, etc would not have had any power if it wasn't for hitler
..hitler had a LOT more to do with it because he was a DICTATOR !! it was much, much different than the American or UK way of doing things---they didn't MURDER people to get their way!! the American way was more Democratic
.....also we see how he handled the Battle of the Bulge as an example of his way or the highway [ death ].....the generals knew hitler's plan was folly, but hitler insisted on it and--demanded it

Only partly true, and I always thought the same things because that is what our history books taught us.
Reinhard Heydrich was the primary jew killer till he was assassinated by Czechs.
He was appointed by Himmler. He was also the author of "The Final Solution".
Just because I am saying Hitler didn't do everything doesn't give the guy a pass or automatically means I believe he is a swell guy.
Try not to think so binary

 

[harmonica]

Interesting to me...like I say I never really delved all that deep into Hitler and the Third Reich. Everything I have ever seen always painted Hitler as the driving force of all of the terrible events done by the Nazis. The camps/holocaust etc. But that simply isn't true. Hitler was psychopath. He was a narcissistic egomaniac. He indeed was a racist, an extreme nationalist - all of these things.
The Final Solution.... the infamous creed and document all loyalist had to sign. - He wasn't the author, it was Reinhard Heydrich.
The concentration camps and wholesale mass murdering Jews.... Himmler. Heydrich was having jews dig deep trenches and lining them up and shooting them. Himmler didn't like the "messiness" of this and wanted it to be more organized, so he and Heydrich devised the gas chambers. - Hitler approved them, but he didn't think of them.
In fact at the beginning Hitler wasn't interested or motivated to even beat jews...that was Goebbels that used the SA troops to start riots and beat jews. Hitler was worried everyday Germans wouldn't accept the violence... he himself had no problem with it, but was worried about the political fallout.

Not in any way trying to defend Hitler in any way. Absolute mad man.
But he wasn't really the one who sought out to eradicate jews, and certainly not by genocide.
That was a combination of Goebbels, Himmler and Heydrich.

no hitler = no WW2 = no Holocaust/etc ..he was the driving force

Absolutely not true.
If you went back in time and shot Hitler, there most likely would have still been a WW II.
There were PLENTY of other people in high power who believed the only way Germany could get out poverty and shame was war. Specifically Ernst Rohm. One of the founding members of the Nazi Party and ran their militia before Hitler was a blip on the radar. He was the most decorated German officer in WW I. And was relegated to performing air stunts to make a living. He was desperate for a return of German glory and military might.
Joseph Goebbels, some in the party wanted him to lead not Hitler. He was fanatically an anti Semite and like I said orchestrated Jewish persecution that Hitler frowned upon, but tolerated it because of the support he had by ranking party members.
What I am saying is it seems it is over simplistic to think Hitler "did it all". The truth is, he actually did little of it. Hitler was more interested in glorifying himself with pomp and flare than getting his hands dirty and doing the work. He spent weeks high in the mountains of his retreat in the middle of the war. He wasn't even present in many of the war room meetings. Hitlers power was in Himmler's fanatical devotion to him and the SS troops he controlled. The first sign of a HINT of anything but total devotion to Hitler and your done. That was the hold he had.

wrong --absolutely true ---they didn't vote and elect someone else to lead--they elected and appointed hitler
..and a lot of generals/admirals were against wars/etc....
Goebbels, etc would not have had any power if it wasn't for hitler
..hitler had a LOT more to do with it because he was a DICTATOR !! it was much, much different than the American or UK way of doing things---they didn't MURDER people to get their way!! the American way was more Democratic
.....also we see how he handled the Battle of the Bulge as an example of his way or the highway [ death ].....the generals knew hitler's plan was folly, but hitler insisted on it and--demanded it

Only partly true, and I always thought the same things because that is what our history books taught us.
Reinhard Heydrich was the primary jew killer till he was assassinated by Czechs.
He was appointed by Himmler. He was also the author of "The Final Solution".
Just because I am saying Hitler didn't do everything doesn't give the guy a pass or automatically means I believe he is a swell guy.
Try not to think so binary

try to think

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Interesting to me...like I say I never really delved all that deep into Hitler and the Third Reich. Everything I have ever seen always painted Hitler as the driving force of all of the terrible events done by the Nazis. The camps/holocaust etc. But that simply isn't true. Hitler was psychopath. He was a narcissistic egomaniac. He indeed was a racist, an extreme nationalist - all of these things.
The Final Solution.... the infamous creed and document all loyalist had to sign. - He wasn't the author, it was Reinhard Heydrich.
The concentration camps and wholesale mass murdering Jews.... Himmler. Heydrich was having jews dig deep trenches and lining them up and shooting them. Himmler didn't like the "messiness" of this and wanted it to be more organized, so he and Heydrich devised the gas chambers. - Hitler approved them, but he didn't think of them.
In fact at the beginning Hitler wasn't interested or motivated to even beat jews...that was Goebbels that used the SA troops to start riots and beat jews. Hitler was worried everyday Germans wouldn't accept the violence... he himself had no problem with it, but was worried about the political fallout.

Not in any way trying to defend Hitler in any way. Absolute mad man.
But he wasn't really the one who sought out to eradicate jews, and certainly not by genocide.
That was a combination of Goebbels, Himmler and Heydrich.

no hitler = no WW2 = no Holocaust/etc ..he was the driving force

Absolutely not true.
If you went back in time and shot Hitler, there most likely would have still been a WW II.
There were PLENTY of other people in high power who believed the only way Germany could get out poverty and shame was war. Specifically Ernst Rohm. One of the founding members of the Nazi Party and ran their militia before Hitler was a blip on the radar. He was the most decorated German officer in WW I. And was relegated to performing air stunts to make a living. He was desperate for a return of German glory and military might.
Joseph Goebbels, some in the party wanted him to lead not Hitler. He was fanatically an anti Semite and like I said orchestrated Jewish persecution that Hitler frowned upon, but tolerated it because of the support he had by ranking party members.
What I am saying is it seems it is over simplistic to think Hitler "did it all". The truth is, he actually did little of it. Hitler was more interested in glorifying himself with pomp and flare than getting his hands dirty and doing the work. He spent weeks high in the mountains of his retreat in the middle of the war. He wasn't even present in many of the war room meetings. Hitlers power was in Himmler's fanatical devotion to him and the SS troops he controlled. The first sign of a HINT of anything but total devotion to Hitler and your done. That was the hold he had.

wrong --absolutely true ---they didn't vote and elect someone else to lead--they elected and appointed hitler
..and a lot of generals/admirals were against wars/etc....
Goebbels, etc would not have had any power if it wasn't for hitler
..hitler had a LOT more to do with it because he was a DICTATOR !! it was much, much different than the American or UK way of doing things---they didn't MURDER people to get their way!! the American way was more Democratic
.....also we see how he handled the Battle of the Bulge as an example of his way or the highway [ death ].....the generals knew hitler's plan was folly, but hitler insisted on it and--demanded it

Only partly true, and I always thought the same things because that is what our history books taught us.
Reinhard Heydrich was the primary jew killer till he was assassinated by Czechs.
He was appointed by Himmler. He was also the author of "The Final Solution".
Just because I am saying Hitler didn't do everything doesn't give the guy a pass or automatically means I believe he is a swell guy.
Try not to think so binary

try to think

Fine, you want to keep believing what you believe...
cheers

 

[harmonica]

Interesting to me...like I say I never really delved all that deep into Hitler and the Third Reich. Everything I have ever seen always painted Hitler as the driving force of all of the terrible events done by the Nazis. The camps/holocaust etc. But that simply isn't true. Hitler was psychopath. He was a narcissistic egomaniac. He indeed was a racist, an extreme nationalist - all of these things.
The Final Solution.... the infamous creed and document all loyalist had to sign. - He wasn't the author, it was Reinhard Heydrich.
The concentration camps and wholesale mass murdering Jews.... Himmler. Heydrich was having jews dig deep trenches and lining them up and shooting them. Himmler didn't like the "messiness" of this and wanted it to be more organized, so he and Heydrich devised the gas chambers. - Hitler approved them, but he didn't think of them.
In fact at the beginning Hitler wasn't interested or motivated to even beat jews...that was Goebbels that used the SA troops to start riots and beat jews. Hitler was worried everyday Germans wouldn't accept the violence... he himself had no problem with it, but was worried about the political fallout.

Not in any way trying to defend Hitler in any way. Absolute mad man.
But he wasn't really the one who sought out to eradicate jews, and certainly not by genocide.
That was a combination of Goebbels, Himmler and Heydrich.

no hitler = no WW2 = no Holocaust/etc ..he was the driving force

Absolutely not true.
If you went back in time and shot Hitler, there most likely would have still been a WW II.
There were PLENTY of other people in high power who believed the only way Germany could get out poverty and shame was war. Specifically Ernst Rohm. One of the founding members of the Nazi Party and ran their militia before Hitler was a blip on the radar. He was the most decorated German officer in WW I. And was relegated to performing air stunts to make a living. He was desperate for a return of German glory and military might.
Joseph Goebbels, some in the party wanted him to lead not Hitler. He was fanatically an anti Semite and like I said orchestrated Jewish persecution that Hitler frowned upon, but tolerated it because of the support he had by ranking party members.
What I am saying is it seems it is over simplistic to think Hitler "did it all". The truth is, he actually did little of it. Hitler was more interested in glorifying himself with pomp and flare than getting his hands dirty and doing the work. He spent weeks high in the mountains of his retreat in the middle of the war. He wasn't even present in many of the war room meetings. Hitlers power was in Himmler's fanatical devotion to him and the SS troops he controlled. The first sign of a HINT of anything but total devotion to Hitler and your done. That was the hold he had.

wrong --absolutely true ---they didn't vote and elect someone else to lead--they elected and appointed hitler
..and a lot of generals/admirals were against wars/etc....
Goebbels, etc would not have had any power if it wasn't for hitler
..hitler had a LOT more to do with it because he was a DICTATOR !! it was much, much different than the American or UK way of doing things---they didn't MURDER people to get their way!! the American way was more Democratic
.....also we see how he handled the Battle of the Bulge as an example of his way or the highway [ death ].....the generals knew hitler's plan was folly, but hitler insisted on it and--demanded it

Only partly true, and I always thought the same things because that is what our history books taught us.
Reinhard Heydrich was the primary jew killer till he was assassinated by Czechs.
He was appointed by Himmler. He was also the author of "The Final Solution".
Just because I am saying Hitler didn't do everything doesn't give the guy a pass or automatically means I believe he is a swell guy.
Try not to think so binary

try to think

Fine, you want to keep believing what you believe...
cheers

..you have no proof there would be a WW2/Holocaust if there was no hitler

 

[Votto]

Well sure, just like Obama was "off hands" when it came to the IRS targeting conservatives or "hands off" when it came to running guns across the border to drug lords.

Not to compare Hitler to Obama, but the point is that those at the top don't want any dirt attached to their name if such illegal activity is discovered. It should then not be that surprising.

Oh for sure to an extent. No one did anything without Hitlers approval, but over the years in history classes, movies, books I have read on WW II... documentaries... all of his inner circle leaders were more described as facilitators under his iron rule. But apparently that is not how it was at all. I always thought Hitler was a micro manager of sorts... everything had to go through him in detail. Flat out not the case.

And all that managing while doped up from the morning, maybe everyday? I heard he needed dope to help him fall asleep and then dope to help him wake up.

And his facillitators found him agreeable? Probably very patient men?

Indeed.

Hitler was a drug addict and because he micromanaged the war, affectionately known as the Bohemian general, Hitler aided in a Nazi defeat.

In fact, the German soldiers themselves were given speed in order to fight fatigue and diminish any possible moral objections to what they were asked to do.

 

[Votto]

Interesting to me...like I say I never really delved all that deep into Hitler and the Third Reich. Everything I have ever seen always painted Hitler as the driving force of all of the terrible events done by the Nazis. The camps/holocaust etc. But that simply isn't true. Hitler was psychopath. He was a narcissistic egomaniac. He indeed was a racist, an extreme nationalist - all of these things.
The Final Solution.... the infamous creed and document all loyalist had to sign. - He wasn't the author, it was Reinhard Heydrich.
The concentration camps and wholesale mass murdering Jews.... Himmler. Heydrich was having jews dig deep trenches and lining them up and shooting them. Himmler didn't like the "messiness" of this and wanted it to be more organized, so he and Heydrich devised the gas chambers. - Hitler approved them, but he didn't think of them.
In fact at the beginning Hitler wasn't interested or motivated to even beat jews...that was Goebbels that used the SA troops to start riots and beat jews. Hitler was worried everyday Germans wouldn't accept the violence... he himself had no problem with it, but was worried about the political fallout.

Not in any way trying to defend Hitler in any way. Absolute mad man.
But he wasn't really the one who sought out to eradicate jews, and certainly not by genocide.
That was a combination of Goebbels, Himmler and Heydrich.

no hitler = no WW2 = no Holocaust/etc ..he was the driving force

Absolutely not true.
If you went back in time and shot Hitler, there most likely would have still been a WW II.
There were PLENTY of other people in high power who believed the only way Germany could get out poverty and shame was war. Specifically Ernst Rohm. One of the founding members of the Nazi Party and ran their militia before Hitler was a blip on the radar. He was the most decorated German officer in WW I. And was relegated to performing air stunts to make a living. He was desperate for a return of German glory and military might.
Joseph Goebbels, some in the party wanted him to lead not Hitler. He was fanatically an anti Semite and like I said orchestrated Jewish persecution that Hitler frowned upon, but tolerated it because of the support he had by ranking party members.
What I am saying is it seems it is over simplistic to think Hitler "did it all". The truth is, he actually did little of it. Hitler was more interested in glorifying himself with pomp and flare than getting his hands dirty and doing the work. He spent weeks high in the mountains of his retreat in the middle of the war. He wasn't even present in many of the war room meetings. Hitlers power was in Himmler's fanatical devotion to him and the SS troops he controlled. The first sign of a HINT of anything but total devotion to Hitler and your done. That was the hold he had.

wrong --absolutely true ---they didn't vote and elect someone else to lead--they elected and appointed hitler
..and a lot of generals/admirals were against wars/etc....
Goebbels, etc would not have had any power if it wasn't for hitler
..hitler had a LOT more to do with it because he was a DICTATOR !! it was much, much different than the American or UK way of doing things---they didn't MURDER people to get their way!! the American way was more Democratic
.....also we see how he handled the Battle of the Bulge as an example of his way or the highway [ death ].....the generals knew hitler's plan was folly, but hitler insisted on it and--demanded it

Only partly true, and I always thought the same things because that is what our history books taught us.
Reinhard Heydrich was the primary jew killer till he was assassinated by Czechs.
He was appointed by Himmler. He was also the author of "The Final Solution".
Just because I am saying Hitler didn't do everything doesn't give the guy a pass or automatically means I believe he is a swell guy.
Try not to think so binary

try to think

Fine, you want to keep believing what you believe...
cheers

..you have no proof there would be a WW2/Holocaust if there was no hitler

The Holocaust was merely a money making scheme.

The Jews were an affluent minority, which meant there were not that many of them compared to the general population, and rich. So the Nazi regime simply rounded the Jews all up, took all their wealth, and sent them off to die. It appealed to the human nature to covet and get even. The people loved it and you continue to see this today with those hating the top 1% in the US. Then the Nazi regime would conquer a region and then create a currency so that their soldiers could buy anything they wanted in the conquered land so they could loot it. Of course, this would cause hyperinflation and as the economy began to collapse, the Nazi regime would explain to them that they needed to round up the Jews, take their gold, and stabilize their economy. Shrug, it worked.

If you ask me, the socioeconomic affluence of the Jewish people was at the heart of their persecution, not just in Nazi Germany but in Europe for centuries. In fact, everything they Nazi regime did to the Jews, such as putting them in ghettos, making them wear special cloths to identify them, rounding them up and killing them in mass, was done over the centuries leading up to the Holocaust. You might even say that the Holocaust was a natural climax of such persecution.

And if you look at the world today, this jealousy can still be seen today. Look at those on the Left in the Occupy Wall Street movement holding signs that say, "Jewish Zionist bankers go home!"

 

[harmonica]

..I've been reading WW2 for over 40 years...
in the book Himmler's Black Order by Lumsden page 66:
''''As foretold in Mein Kampf, Hilter's Nurnberg Laws of 1935 deprived Germany's Jews of the Reich citizenship.......'''
bold mine

..page 64:
'One of the earliest twentieth century proponents of racial ideology was Alfred Rosenberg........and [ he ] immediately won Hitler's attention......Rosenberg was nominated by the Fuhrer as editor of the NSDAP newspaper, the Volkischer Beobachter, which, thereafter vigorously denounced communist, Jews,......''' [ etc ]
bold mine

 

[harmonica]

Interesting to me...like I say I never really delved all that deep into Hitler and the Third Reich. Everything I have ever seen always painted Hitler as the driving force of all of the terrible events done by the Nazis. The camps/holocaust etc. But that simply isn't true. Hitler was psychopath. He was a narcissistic egomaniac. He indeed was a racist, an extreme nationalist - all of these things.
The Final Solution.... the infamous creed and document all loyalist had to sign. - He wasn't the author, it was Reinhard Heydrich.
The concentration camps and wholesale mass murdering Jews.... Himmler. Heydrich was having jews dig deep trenches and lining them up and shooting them. Himmler didn't like the "messiness" of this and wanted it to be more organized, so he and Heydrich devised the gas chambers. - Hitler approved them, but he didn't think of them.
In fact at the beginning Hitler wasn't interested or motivated to even beat jews...that was Goebbels that used the SA troops to start riots and beat jews. Hitler was worried everyday Germans wouldn't accept the violence... he himself had no problem with it, but was worried about the political fallout.

Not in any way trying to defend Hitler in any way. Absolute mad man.
But he wasn't really the one who sought out to eradicate jews, and certainly not by genocide.
That was a combination of Goebbels, Himmler and Heydrich.

no hitler = no WW2 = no Holocaust/etc ..he was the driving force

Absolutely not true.
If you went back in time and shot Hitler, there most likely would have still been a WW II.
There were PLENTY of other people in high power who believed the only way Germany could get out poverty and shame was war. Specifically Ernst Rohm. One of the founding members of the Nazi Party and ran their militia before Hitler was a blip on the radar. He was the most decorated German officer in WW I. And was relegated to performing air stunts to make a living. He was desperate for a return of German glory and military might.
Joseph Goebbels, some in the party wanted him to lead not Hitler. He was fanatically an anti Semite and like I said orchestrated Jewish persecution that Hitler frowned upon, but tolerated it because of the support he had by ranking party members.
What I am saying is it seems it is over simplistic to think Hitler "did it all". The truth is, he actually did little of it. Hitler was more interested in glorifying himself with pomp and flare than getting his hands dirty and doing the work. He spent weeks high in the mountains of his retreat in the middle of the war. He wasn't even present in many of the war room meetings. Hitlers power was in Himmler's fanatical devotion to him and the SS troops he controlled. The first sign of a HINT of anything but total devotion to Hitler and your done. That was the hold he had.

wrong --absolutely true ---they didn't vote and elect someone else to lead--they elected and appointed hitler
..and a lot of generals/admirals were against wars/etc....
Goebbels, etc would not have had any power if it wasn't for hitler
..hitler had a LOT more to do with it because he was a DICTATOR !! it was much, much different than the American or UK way of doing things---they didn't MURDER people to get their way!! the American way was more Democratic
.....also we see how he handled the Battle of the Bulge as an example of his way or the highway [ death ].....the generals knew hitler's plan was folly, but hitler insisted on it and--demanded it

Only partly true, and I always thought the same things because that is what our history books taught us.
Reinhard Heydrich was the primary jew killer till he was assassinated by Czechs.
He was appointed by Himmler. He was also the author of "The Final Solution".
Just because I am saying Hitler didn't do everything doesn't give the guy a pass or automatically means I believe he is a swell guy.
Try not to think so binary

try to think

Fine, you want to keep believing what you believe...
cheers

..you have no proof there would be a WW2/Holocaust if there was no hitler

The Holocaust was merely a money making scheme.

The Jews were an affluent minority, which meant there were not that many of them compared to the general population, and rich. So the Nazi regime simply rounded the Jews all up, took all their wealth, and sent them off to die. It appealed to the human nature to covet and get even. The people loved it and you continue to see this today with those hating the top 1% in the US. Then the Nazi regime would conquer a region and then create a currency so that their soldiers could buy anything they wanted in the conquered land so they could loot it. Of course, this would cause hyperinflation and as the economy began to collapse, the Nazi regime would explain to them that they needed to round up the Jews, take their gold, and stabilize their economy. Shrug, it worked.

If you ask me, the socioeconomic affluence of the Jewish people was at the heart of their persecution, not just in Nazi Germany but in Europe for centuries. In fact, everything they Nazi regime did to the Jews, such as putting them in ghettos, making them wear special cloths to identify them, rounding them up and killing them in mass, was done over the centuries leading up to the Holocaust. You might even say that the Holocaust was a natural climax of such persecution.

And if you look at the world today, this jealousy can still be seen today. Look at those on the Left in the Occupy Wall Street movement holding signs that say, "Jewish Zionist bankers go home!"

see post # 28.....there's no $$$$ making schemes there

 

[Votto]

..I've been reading WW2 for over 40 years...
in the book Himmler's Black Order by Lumsden page 66:
''''As foretold in Mein Kampf, Hilter's Nurnberg Laws of 1935 deprived Germany's Jews of the Reich citizenship.......'''
bold mine

..page 64:
'One of the earliest twentieth century proponents of racial ideology was Alfred Resenberg........and [ he ] immediately won Hitler's attention......Rosenberg was nominated by the Fuhrer as editor of the NSDAP newspaper, the Volkischer Beobachter, which, thereafter vigorously denounced communist, Jews,......''' [ etc ]
bold mone

The Nazi elite were also heavily influenced by what was going on in the US. Eugenics was strongly promoted in science at that time as any scientist worth their salt in the scientific community embraced racism and the notion that "whites" were superior to blacks.

Also, people who were considered to be genetically inferior were encouraged to be sterilized and Margaret Sanger created Planned Parenthood with the express desire to minimize the size of the black population which was seen as weakening the genetic gene pool of humanity.

Naturally, after the Holocaust and the evils for Eugenic madness could be seen by all, the movement fell out of favor, except in regards to promoting abortion which is the main Eugenical element left within society today. In fact, in New York City there have been more black abortions than births to date.

 

[Votto]

Interesting to me...like I say I never really delved all that deep into Hitler and the Third Reich. Everything I have ever seen always painted Hitler as the driving force of all of the terrible events done by the Nazis. The camps/holocaust etc. But that simply isn't true. Hitler was psychopath. He was a narcissistic egomaniac. He indeed was a racist, an extreme nationalist - all of these things.
The Final Solution.... the infamous creed and document all loyalist had to sign. - He wasn't the author, it was Reinhard Heydrich.
The concentration camps and wholesale mass murdering Jews.... Himmler. Heydrich was having jews dig deep trenches and lining them up and shooting them. Himmler didn't like the "messiness" of this and wanted it to be more organized, so he and Heydrich devised the gas chambers. - Hitler approved them, but he didn't think of them.
In fact at the beginning Hitler wasn't interested or motivated to even beat jews...that was Goebbels that used the SA troops to start riots and beat jews. Hitler was worried everyday Germans wouldn't accept the violence... he himself had no problem with it, but was worried about the political fallout.

Not in any way trying to defend Hitler in any way. Absolute mad man.
But he wasn't really the one who sought out to eradicate jews, and certainly not by genocide.
That was a combination of Goebbels, Himmler and Heydrich.

no hitler = no WW2 = no Holocaust/etc ..he was the driving force

Absolutely not true.
If you went back in time and shot Hitler, there most likely would have still been a WW II.
There were PLENTY of other people in high power who believed the only way Germany could get out poverty and shame was war. Specifically Ernst Rohm. One of the founding members of the Nazi Party and ran their militia before Hitler was a blip on the radar. He was the most decorated German officer in WW I. And was relegated to performing air stunts to make a living. He was desperate for a return of German glory and military might.
Joseph Goebbels, some in the party wanted him to lead not Hitler. He was fanatically an anti Semite and like I said orchestrated Jewish persecution that Hitler frowned upon, but tolerated it because of the support he had by ranking party members.
What I am saying is it seems it is over simplistic to think Hitler "did it all". The truth is, he actually did little of it. Hitler was more interested in glorifying himself with pomp and flare than getting his hands dirty and doing the work. He spent weeks high in the mountains of his retreat in the middle of the war. He wasn't even present in many of the war room meetings. Hitlers power was in Himmler's fanatical devotion to him and the SS troops he controlled. The first sign of a HINT of anything but total devotion to Hitler and your done. That was the hold he had.

wrong --absolutely true ---they didn't vote and elect someone else to lead--they elected and appointed hitler
..and a lot of generals/admirals were against wars/etc....
Goebbels, etc would not have had any power if it wasn't for hitler
..hitler had a LOT more to do with it because he was a DICTATOR !! it was much, much different than the American or UK way of doing things---they didn't MURDER people to get their way!! the American way was more Democratic
.....also we see how he handled the Battle of the Bulge as an example of his way or the highway [ death ].....the generals knew hitler's plan was folly, but hitler insisted on it and--demanded it

Only partly true, and I always thought the same things because that is what our history books taught us.
Reinhard Heydrich was the primary jew killer till he was assassinated by Czechs.
He was appointed by Himmler. He was also the author of "The Final Solution".
Just because I am saying Hitler didn't do everything doesn't give the guy a pass or automatically means I believe he is a swell guy.
Try not to think so binary

try to think

Fine, you want to keep believing what you believe...
cheers

..you have no proof there would be a WW2/Holocaust if there was no hitler

The Holocaust was merely a money making scheme.

The Jews were an affluent minority, which meant there were not that many of them compared to the general population, and rich. So the Nazi regime simply rounded the Jews all up, took all their wealth, and sent them off to die. It appealed to the human nature to covet and get even. The people loved it and you continue to see this today with those hating the top 1% in the US. Then the Nazi regime would conquer a region and then create a currency so that their soldiers could buy anything they wanted in the conquered land so they could loot it. Of course, this would cause hyperinflation and as the economy began to collapse, the Nazi regime would explain to them that they needed to round up the Jews, take their gold, and stabilize their economy. Shrug, it worked.

If you ask me, the socioeconomic affluence of the Jewish people was at the heart of their persecution, not just in Nazi Germany but in Europe for centuries. In fact, everything they Nazi regime did to the Jews, such as putting them in ghettos, making them wear special cloths to identify them, rounding them up and killing them in mass, was done over the centuries leading up to the Holocaust. You might even say that the Holocaust was a natural climax of such persecution.

And if you look at the world today, this jealousy can still be seen today. Look at those on the Left in the Occupy Wall Street movement holding signs that say, "Jewish Zionist bankers go home!"

see post # 28.....there's no $$$$ making schemes there

This is a good book of reference for what I'm talking about.

https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Beneficiaries-Plunder-Racial-Welfare/dp/0805087265&tag=ff0d01-20

The historian German Gotz Aly made a compelling argument for the notion that the largeness and dictatorial power of the Nazi regime was the root for the ability for the Holocaust to have taken place.

Naturally, in Left wing Europe he took a lot of heat for making the book.

 

[harmonica]

so hitler did NOT know about the Wannsee Conference?

 

[harmonica]

Interesting to me...like I say I never really delved all that deep into Hitler and the Third Reich. Everything I have ever seen always painted Hitler as the driving force of all of the terrible events done by the Nazis. The camps/holocaust etc. But that simply isn't true. Hitler was psychopath. He was a narcissistic egomaniac. He indeed was a racist, an extreme nationalist - all of these things.
The Final Solution.... the infamous creed and document all loyalist had to sign. - He wasn't the author, it was Reinhard Heydrich.
The concentration camps and wholesale mass murdering Jews.... Himmler. Heydrich was having jews dig deep trenches and lining them up and shooting them. Himmler didn't like the "messiness" of this and wanted it to be more organized, so he and Heydrich devised the gas chambers. - Hitler approved them, but he didn't think of them.
In fact at the beginning Hitler wasn't interested or motivated to even beat jews...that was Goebbels that used the SA troops to start riots and beat jews. Hitler was worried everyday Germans wouldn't accept the violence... he himself had no problem with it, but was worried about the political fallout.

Not in any way trying to defend Hitler in any way. Absolute mad man.
But he wasn't really the one who sought out to eradicate jews, and certainly not by genocide.
That was a combination of Goebbels, Himmler and Heydrich.

no hitler = no WW2 = no Holocaust/etc ..he was the driving force

Absolutely not true.
If you went back in time and shot Hitler, there most likely would have still been a WW II.
There were PLENTY of other people in high power who believed the only way Germany could get out poverty and shame was war. Specifically Ernst Rohm. One of the founding members of the Nazi Party and ran their militia before Hitler was a blip on the radar. He was the most decorated German officer in WW I. And was relegated to performing air stunts to make a living. He was desperate for a return of German glory and military might.
Joseph Goebbels, some in the party wanted him to lead not Hitler. He was fanatically an anti Semite and like I said orchestrated Jewish persecution that Hitler frowned upon, but tolerated it because of the support he had by ranking party members.
What I am saying is it seems it is over simplistic to think Hitler "did it all". The truth is, he actually did little of it. Hitler was more interested in glorifying himself with pomp and flare than getting his hands dirty and doing the work. He spent weeks high in the mountains of his retreat in the middle of the war. He wasn't even present in many of the war room meetings. Hitlers power was in Himmler's fanatical devotion to him and the SS troops he controlled. The first sign of a HINT of anything but total devotion to Hitler and your done. That was the hold he had.

wrong --absolutely true ---they didn't vote and elect someone else to lead--they elected and appointed hitler
..and a lot of generals/admirals were against wars/etc....
Goebbels, etc would not have had any power if it wasn't for hitler
..hitler had a LOT more to do with it because he was a DICTATOR !! it was much, much different than the American or UK way of doing things---they didn't MURDER people to get their way!! the American way was more Democratic
.....also we see how he handled the Battle of the Bulge as an example of his way or the highway [ death ].....the generals knew hitler's plan was folly, but hitler insisted on it and--demanded it

Only partly true, and I always thought the same things because that is what our history books taught us.
Reinhard Heydrich was the primary jew killer till he was assassinated by Czechs.
He was appointed by Himmler. He was also the author of "The Final Solution".
Just because I am saying Hitler didn't do everything doesn't give the guy a pass or automatically means I believe he is a swell guy.
Try not to think so binary

try to think

Fine, you want to keep believing what you believe...
cheers

..you have no proof there would be a WW2/Holocaust if there was no hitler

The Holocaust was merely a money making scheme.

The Jews were an affluent minority, which meant there were not that many of them compared to the general population, and rich. So the Nazi regime simply rounded the Jews all up, took all their wealth, and sent them off to die. It appealed to the human nature to covet and get even. The people loved it and you continue to see this today with those hating the top 1% in the US. Then the Nazi regime would conquer a region and then create a currency so that their soldiers could buy anything they wanted in the conquered land so they could loot it. Of course, this would cause hyperinflation and as the economy began to collapse, the Nazi regime would explain to them that they needed to round up the Jews, take their gold, and stabilize their economy. Shrug, it worked.

If you ask me, the socioeconomic affluence of the Jewish people was at the heart of their persecution, not just in Nazi Germany but in Europe for centuries. In fact, everything they Nazi regime did to the Jews, such as putting them in ghettos, making them wear special cloths to identify them, rounding them up and killing them in mass, was done over the centuries leading up to the Holocaust. You might even say that the Holocaust was a natural climax of such persecution.

And if you look at the world today, this jealousy can still be seen today. Look at those on the Left in the Occupy Wall Street movement holding signs that say, "Jewish Zionist bankers go home!"

see post # 28.....there's no $$$$ making schemes there

This is a good book of reference for what I'm talking about.

Robot Check

The historian German Gotz Aly made a compelling argument for the notion that the largeness and dictatorial power of the Nazi regime was the root for the ability for the Holocaust to have taken place.

Naturally, in Left wing Europe he took a lot of heat for making the book.

sure---that was a big part--but as I have stated in other posts, it was not only the dictatorial power as others like Amin/Pol Pot/Mussolini [ especially Pot ] etc had.....it was the German industrial and military power...it was the organization that Germans are well known for.....it was the transportation network...all of these combined
..there have been many dictators --but they did not have the power that Germany did
.....the Hutus did murder more Tutsis in a quicker amount of time --with medieval weapons--BUT the difference is more Hutus had to have been directly involved...where as the Germans had really just a few [ dropping the Zyklon B ]........the Germans had it down to an ''art''-:
--transporting thousands to the ''Factory'
--very organizational/efficient separating of the ''materials'' [ the Jews ]
--processing to the ''Factory''/'''assembly line''
--very organizational/efficient removal of the ''material'' [ the dead ]

 

[Votto]

so hitler did NOT know about the Wannsee Conference?

That I don't know.

The main gist of Gotz's book was that a war weary society steeped in genocide decided to look the other way because they were making so much money. In essence, Hitler heavily taxed the top 4% in Germany, looted the wealth of the Jews, and printed money they did not have in order to put the money in two places which was the war effort and the average German voter.

For you see, Hitler cared nothing about the people but was terrified about a revolt like the Germans had during World War 1 due to poor living standards. The German people had higher living standards than anywhere else in the world, even until the last year of the war.

In effect, he bought all of their collective souls.

And if you look at the US, they follow the same type of plan it seems.

 

[harmonica]

so hitler did NOT know about the Wannsee Conference?

That I don't know.

The main gist of Gotz's book was that a war weary society steeped in genocide decided to look the other way because they were making so much money. In essence, Hitler heavily taxed the top 4% in Germany, looted the wealth of the Jews, and printed money they did not have in order to put the money in two places which was the war effort and the average German voter.

For you see, Hitler cared nothing about the people but was terrified about a revolt like the Germans had during World War 1 due to poor living standards. The German people had higher living standards than anywhere else in the world, even until the last year of the war.

In effect, he bought all of their collective souls.

And if you look at the US, they follow the same type of plan it seems.

..most of the Germans could not have done anything to stop the Holocaust if they wanted to

 

[Votto]

Interesting to me...like I say I never really delved all that deep into Hitler and the Third Reich. Everything I have ever seen always painted Hitler as the driving force of all of the terrible events done by the Nazis. The camps/holocaust etc. But that simply isn't true. Hitler was psychopath. He was a narcissistic egomaniac. He indeed was a racist, an extreme nationalist - all of these things.
The Final Solution.... the infamous creed and document all loyalist had to sign. - He wasn't the author, it was Reinhard Heydrich.
The concentration camps and wholesale mass murdering Jews.... Himmler. Heydrich was having jews dig deep trenches and lining them up and shooting them. Himmler didn't like the "messiness" of this and wanted it to be more organized, so he and Heydrich devised the gas chambers. - Hitler approved them, but he didn't think of them.
In fact at the beginning Hitler wasn't interested or motivated to even beat jews...that was Goebbels that used the SA troops to start riots and beat jews. Hitler was worried everyday Germans wouldn't accept the violence... he himself had no problem with it, but was worried about the political fallout.

Not in any way trying to defend Hitler in any way. Absolute mad man.
But he wasn't really the one who sought out to eradicate jews, and certainly not by genocide.
That was a combination of Goebbels, Himmler and Heydrich.

no hitler = no WW2 = no Holocaust/etc ..he was the driving force

Absolutely not true.
If you went back in time and shot Hitler, there most likely would have still been a WW II.
There were PLENTY of other people in high power who believed the only way Germany could get out poverty and shame was war. Specifically Ernst Rohm. One of the founding members of the Nazi Party and ran their militia before Hitler was a blip on the radar. He was the most decorated German officer in WW I. And was relegated to performing air stunts to make a living. He was desperate for a return of German glory and military might.
Joseph Goebbels, some in the party wanted him to lead not Hitler. He was fanatically an anti Semite and like I said orchestrated Jewish persecution that Hitler frowned upon, but tolerated it because of the support he had by ranking party members.
What I am saying is it seems it is over simplistic to think Hitler "did it all". The truth is, he actually did little of it. Hitler was more interested in glorifying himself with pomp and flare than getting his hands dirty and doing the work. He spent weeks high in the mountains of his retreat in the middle of the war. He wasn't even present in many of the war room meetings. Hitlers power was in Himmler's fanatical devotion to him and the SS troops he controlled. The first sign of a HINT of anything but total devotion to Hitler and your done. That was the hold he had.

wrong --absolutely true ---they didn't vote and elect someone else to lead--they elected and appointed hitler
..and a lot of generals/admirals were against wars/etc....
Goebbels, etc would not have had any power if it wasn't for hitler
..hitler had a LOT more to do with it because he was a DICTATOR !! it was much, much different than the American or UK way of doing things---they didn't MURDER people to get their way!! the American way was more Democratic
.....also we see how he handled the Battle of the Bulge as an example of his way or the highway [ death ].....the generals knew hitler's plan was folly, but hitler insisted on it and--demanded it

Only partly true, and I always thought the same things because that is what our history books taught us.
Reinhard Heydrich was the primary jew killer till he was assassinated by Czechs.
He was appointed by Himmler. He was also the author of "The Final Solution".
Just because I am saying Hitler didn't do everything doesn't give the guy a pass or automatically means I believe he is a swell guy.
Try not to think so binary

try to think

Fine, you want to keep believing what you believe...
cheers

..you have no proof there would be a WW2/Holocaust if there was no hitler

The Holocaust was merely a money making scheme.

The Jews were an affluent minority, which meant there were not that many of them compared to the general population, and rich. So the Nazi regime simply rounded the Jews all up, took all their wealth, and sent them off to die. It appealed to the human nature to covet and get even. The people loved it and you continue to see this today with those hating the top 1% in the US. Then the Nazi regime would conquer a region and then create a currency so that their soldiers could buy anything they wanted in the conquered land so they could loot it. Of course, this would cause hyperinflation and as the economy began to collapse, the Nazi regime would explain to them that they needed to round up the Jews, take their gold, and stabilize their economy. Shrug, it worked.

If you ask me, the socioeconomic affluence of the Jewish people was at the heart of their persecution, not just in Nazi Germany but in Europe for centuries. In fact, everything they Nazi regime did to the Jews, such as putting them in ghettos, making them wear special cloths to identify them, rounding them up and killing them in mass, was done over the centuries leading up to the Holocaust. You might even say that the Holocaust was a natural climax of such persecution.

And if you look at the world today, this jealousy can still be seen today. Look at those on the Left in the Occupy Wall Street movement holding signs that say, "Jewish Zionist bankers go home!"

see post # 28.....there's no $$$$ making schemes there

This is a good book of reference for what I'm talking about.

Robot Check

The historian German Gotz Aly made a compelling argument for the notion that the largeness and dictatorial power of the Nazi regime was the root for the ability for the Holocaust to have taken place.

Naturally, in Left wing Europe he took a lot of heat for making the book.

sure---that was a big part--but as I have stated in other posts, it was not only the dictatorial power as others like Amin/Pol Pot/Mussolini [ especially Pot ] etc had.....it was the German industrial and military power...it was the organization that Germans are well known for.....it was the transportation network...all of these combined
..there have been many dictators --but they did not have the power that Germany did
.....the Hutus did murder more Tutsis in a quicker amount of time --with medieval weapons--BUT the difference is more Hutus had to have been directly involved...where as the Germans had really just a few [ dropping the Zyklon B ]........the Germans had it down to an ''art''-:
--transporting thousands to the ''Factory'
--very organizational/efficient separating of the ''materials'' [ the Jews ]
--processing to the ''Factory''/'''assembly line''
--very organizational/efficient removal of the ''material'' [ the dead ]

In terms of the history of mankind, the state is the one organization that has murdered far more people than any other organization that has existed. The more dictatorial the regime the more efficient it becomes. WITHOUT such a centralized dictatorial regime and efficient eradication of a populace would be next to impossible.

Also know that collectivist regimes, such as the Nazi regime and Stalinist regime, naturally tend towards being war machines. Both President's Wilson and FDR saw this and tried to model their governments and economies after this in order to compete with them on the battle field, which they did. The changes that the Progressive movement made, to become more like their collectivist counterparts created a centralized Federal government that is so large now and so powerful now, they essentially print money out their arse to give to every man, woman, and child on the planet for influence. And as for their military, they rule the roost with troops in over 70 countries around the world. Hitler could have only dreamed of that kind of success.

And as for the current genocide of abortion in the US and the world, most women today have an abortion due to financial concerns. So as we see, genocide today is motivated by greed just like it was in Nazi Germany.

 

[Votto]

so hitler did NOT know about the Wannsee Conference?

That I don't know.

The main gist of Gotz's book was that a war weary society steeped in genocide decided to look the other way because they were making so much money. In essence, Hitler heavily taxed the top 4% in Germany, looted the wealth of the Jews, and printed money they did not have in order to put the money in two places which was the war effort and the average German voter.

For you see, Hitler cared nothing about the people but was terrified about a revolt like the Germans had during World War 1 due to poor living standards. The German people had higher living standards than anywhere else in the world, even until the last year of the war.

In effect, he bought all of their collective souls.

And if you look at the US, they follow the same type of plan it seems.

..most of the Germans could not have done anything to stop the Holocaust if they wanted to

As I said, Hitler was terrified of German uprisings that occurred during WW1. They may not have stopped Hitler, but they definitely would have made life far more difficult for him.

In fact, had Hitler gone into the USSR as a liberator instead of a butcherer, his success in that fight would have been far greater, maybe even being able to topple Stalin. But alas, we will never know. The populace hated Stalin. After all, Stalin murdered much more people than Hitler ever dreamed of killing.

I would even argue that the Allies should have declared war on the USSR when they invaded Poland along with Hitler to divided it up amongst themselves.

 

[harmonica]

Interesting to me...like I say I never really delved all that deep into Hitler and the Third Reich. Everything I have ever seen always painted Hitler as the driving force of all of the terrible events done by the Nazis. The camps/holocaust etc. But that simply isn't true. Hitler was psychopath. He was a narcissistic egomaniac. He indeed was a racist, an extreme nationalist - all of these things.
The Final Solution.... the infamous creed and document all loyalist had to sign. - He wasn't the author, it was Reinhard Heydrich.
The concentration camps and wholesale mass murdering Jews.... Himmler. Heydrich was having jews dig deep trenches and lining them up and shooting them. Himmler didn't like the "messiness" of this and wanted it to be more organized, so he and Heydrich devised the gas chambers. - Hitler approved them, but he didn't think of them.
In fact at the beginning Hitler wasn't interested or motivated to even beat jews...that was Goebbels that used the SA troops to start riots and beat jews. Hitler was worried everyday Germans wouldn't accept the violence... he himself had no problem with it, but was worried about the political fallout.

Not in any way trying to defend Hitler in any way. Absolute mad man.
But he wasn't really the one who sought out to eradicate jews, and certainly not by genocide.
That was a combination of Goebbels, Himmler and Heydrich.

no hitler = no WW2 = no Holocaust/etc ..he was the driving force

Absolutely not true.
If you went back in time and shot Hitler, there most likely would have still been a WW II.
There were PLENTY of other people in high power who believed the only way Germany could get out poverty and shame was war. Specifically Ernst Rohm. One of the founding members of the Nazi Party and ran their militia before Hitler was a blip on the radar. He was the most decorated German officer in WW I. And was relegated to performing air stunts to make a living. He was desperate for a return of German glory and military might.
Joseph Goebbels, some in the party wanted him to lead not Hitler. He was fanatically an anti Semite and like I said orchestrated Jewish persecution that Hitler frowned upon, but tolerated it because of the support he had by ranking party members.
What I am saying is it seems it is over simplistic to think Hitler "did it all". The truth is, he actually did little of it. Hitler was more interested in glorifying himself with pomp and flare than getting his hands dirty and doing the work. He spent weeks high in the mountains of his retreat in the middle of the war. He wasn't even present in many of the war room meetings. Hitlers power was in Himmler's fanatical devotion to him and the SS troops he controlled. The first sign of a HINT of anything but total devotion to Hitler and your done. That was the hold he had.

wrong --absolutely true ---they didn't vote and elect someone else to lead--they elected and appointed hitler
..and a lot of generals/admirals were against wars/etc....
Goebbels, etc would not have had any power if it wasn't for hitler
..hitler had a LOT more to do with it because he was a DICTATOR !! it was much, much different than the American or UK way of doing things---they didn't MURDER people to get their way!! the American way was more Democratic
.....also we see how he handled the Battle of the Bulge as an example of his way or the highway [ death ].....the generals knew hitler's plan was folly, but hitler insisted on it and--demanded it

Only partly true, and I always thought the same things because that is what our history books taught us.
Reinhard Heydrich was the primary jew killer till he was assassinated by Czechs.
He was appointed by Himmler. He was also the author of "The Final Solution".
Just because I am saying Hitler didn't do everything doesn't give the guy a pass or automatically means I believe he is a swell guy.
Try not to think so binary

try to think

Fine, you want to keep believing what you believe...
cheers

..you have no proof there would be a WW2/Holocaust if there was no hitler

The Holocaust was merely a money making scheme.

The Jews were an affluent minority, which meant there were not that many of them compared to the general population, and rich. So the Nazi regime simply rounded the Jews all up, took all their wealth, and sent them off to die. It appealed to the human nature to covet and get even. The people loved it and you continue to see this today with those hating the top 1% in the US. Then the Nazi regime would conquer a region and then create a currency so that their soldiers could buy anything they wanted in the conquered land so they could loot it. Of course, this would cause hyperinflation and as the economy began to collapse, the Nazi regime would explain to them that they needed to round up the Jews, take their gold, and stabilize their economy. Shrug, it worked.

If you ask me, the socioeconomic affluence of the Jewish people was at the heart of their persecution, not just in Nazi Germany but in Europe for centuries. In fact, everything they Nazi regime did to the Jews, such as putting them in ghettos, making them wear special cloths to identify them, rounding them up and killing them in mass, was done over the centuries leading up to the Holocaust. You might even say that the Holocaust was a natural climax of such persecution.

And if you look at the world today, this jealousy can still be seen today. Look at those on the Left in the Occupy Wall Street movement holding signs that say, "Jewish Zionist bankers go home!"

see post # 28.....there's no $$$$ making schemes there

This is a good book of reference for what I'm talking about.

Robot Check

The historian German Gotz Aly made a compelling argument for the notion that the largeness and dictatorial power of the Nazi regime was the root for the ability for the Holocaust to have taken place.

Naturally, in Left wing Europe he took a lot of heat for making the book.

sure---that was a big part--but as I have stated in other posts, it was not only the dictatorial power as others like Amin/Pol Pot/Mussolini [ especially Pot ] etc had.....it was the German industrial and military power...it was the organization that Germans are well known for.....it was the transportation network...all of these combined
..there have been many dictators --but they did not have the power that Germany did
.....the Hutus did murder more Tutsis in a quicker amount of time --with medieval weapons--BUT the difference is more Hutus had to have been directly involved...where as the Germans had really just a few [ dropping the Zyklon B ]........the Germans had it down to an ''art''-:
--transporting thousands to the ''Factory'
--very organizational/efficient separating of the ''materials'' [ the Jews ]
--processing to the ''Factory''/'''assembly line''
--very organizational/efficient removal of the ''material'' [ the dead ]

more Hulus per capita I mean

 

[harmonica]

so hitler did NOT know about the Wannsee Conference?

That I don't know.

The main gist of Gotz's book was that a war weary society steeped in genocide decided to look the other way because they were making so much money. In essence, Hitler heavily taxed the top 4% in Germany, looted the wealth of the Jews, and printed money they did not have in order to put the money in two places which was the war effort and the average German voter.

For you see, Hitler cared nothing about the people but was terrified about a revolt like the Germans had during World War 1 due to poor living standards. The German people had higher living standards than anywhere else in the world, even until the last year of the war.

In effect, he bought all of their collective souls.

And if you look at the US, they follow the same type of plan it seems.

..most of the Germans could not have done anything to stop the Holocaust if they wanted to

As I said, Hitler was terrified of German uprisings that occurred during WW1. They may not have stopped Hitler, but they definitely would have made life far more difficult for him.

In fact, had Hitler gone into the USSR as a liberator instead of a butcherer, his success in that fight would have been far greater, maybe even being able to topple Stalin. But alas, we will never know. The populace hated Stalin. After all, Stalin murdered much more people than Hitler ever dreamed of killing.

I would even argue that the Allies should have declared war on the USSR when they invaded Poland along with Hitler to divided it up amongst themselves.

..''liberators'' vs ----''invaders''/attackers/good doers/etc? that would be a good thread--there are many examples:
...we see the Japanese wanted to ''liberate' 'the Asians from the westerners--we see what happened there
..the US wanted to keep South Vietnam ''free''--!!
..the English wanted to ''help'' all over the world
..the Russians in Afghanistan--that's a perfect and intriguing example
--the ''second'' Russia attack into Poland
--etc etc

 

[iamwhatiseem]

..I've been reading WW2 for over 40 years...
in the book Himmler's Black Order by Lumsden page 66:
''''As foretold in Mein Kampf, Hilter's Nurnberg Laws of 1935 deprived Germany's Jews of the Reich citizenship.......'''
bold mine

..page 64:
'One of the earliest twentieth century proponents of racial ideology was Alfred Rosenberg........and [ he ] immediately won Hitler's attention......Rosenberg was nominated by the Fuhrer as editor of the NSDAP newspaper, the Volkischer Beobachter, which, thereafter vigorously denounced communist, Jews,......''' [ etc ]
bold mine

Anyone who "studied" WW II for 40 years would know Hitler was not alone at the top. He delegated a lot.
Absolutely he shares a ton of fault for their losses in battles. On numerous fronts, killing off strategist because he didn't like them for one reason or another. Making unreasonable demands and then throwing a huge hissy fit if it didn't go as he planned.
Hitler was an egomaniac. Completely unforgiving, and truly insane. But he wasn't the only one.
Mein Kempf was equally written by Hess at least if not mostly written by him. If you studied it for 4 decades you would know this. Hess idolized Hitler. And Hess was certifiably insane. Much more than Hitler.