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Here’s What We Know Now: The Warrant Was for EVERY Document Trump Had During His Entire Term

Flopper

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Either Trump took the documents for some reason or they were planted by the FBI.The FBI’s reputation at this point is not all that stellar.


It would seem Trump would have either declassified the documents before he took them or would have destroyed them once there was a demand to return them. Trump doesn’t strike me as stupid. Joe Biden fits that image more but to be fair he has demientia.

If Trump did take the documents what did he plan to do with them? Is there something in those documents that he wants the American public to know?
There are other possibilities. When these documents were being packed, the White House was in complete chaos. It was just before and after Jan 6th. White House staff were being told we aren't going anywhere. And the National Achieve people were going thru millions of documents trying to identify what is to be achieved, what belongs to Trump and staff, and what is trash. This work was suppose to start by Dec 1 but Trump delayed it for 3 weeks. It seems quite possible that mistakes were made. However, 13 boxes with classified document accidently end up in Trump's home? And equally unlikely, FBI agents carry 13 boxes into the house with dozens of Trump employees and security people watching.
 

mamooth

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What is the reason to suspect Trump 'illegally possessed' any documents?
Because classified documents were found in his possession

It wasn't legal for him to possess them.

His possession of them was a deliberate act. We know this because Archives kept asking for them back, and Trump kept refusing to give them back.

And they were of the "Holy crap, this stuff is the most classified that classified can get" category, and clearly marked as such.

In contrast, Hillary Clinton's emails unknowingly contained a few barely classified items that weren't clearly marked as being classified.

Any non-liar would note the distinct difference. How do you justify your dishonesty here?
 

konradv

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lantern2814

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He said he complied in June; the FBI, DOJ, and National Archives say otherwise. That's a problem because Trump would have had to sign sworn statements that he had fully complied with requests for documents. That the FBI walked out with 11 sets of documents makes a pretty solid case for federal criminal perjury, however it's defined by the statute that would apply in this case.
Sorry you lose. Trump was fully cooperating as they went through those boxes in June and requested they be better secured. Which they were the next day.
 

multivita-man

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Sorry you lose. Trump was fully cooperating as they went through those boxes in June and requested they be better secured. Which they were the next day.

No, sorry, Trump loses because if he had fully cooperated in June, they wouldn't have gone back to sweep his estate on Monday. Pretty common sense stuff really.
 

Flopper

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Did I miss something (again?) what about the "nuclear documents"? These fools are trying to try him for espionage over documents he had the full authority to declassify? I think that they're so damned arrogant that they developed a mental block that kept them from recognizing Trump as president. Shattered their damn world.
The president is going to declassify top secret documents and SCI documents which are most secret of top secret documents. By the time EO got distributed, the cabinet would discussing his sanity and removal via the 25th amendment.
 

multivita-man

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The president is going to declassify top secret documents and SCI documents which are most secret of top secret documents. By the time EO got distributed, the cabinet would discussing his sanity and removal via the 25th amendment.

That's why I - and no credible legal expert - buys the idea that simply declaring them unclassified ex post facto would be a legally valid defense. There's a process for marking documents, and that process exists for a reason.

I personally don't think AG Garland would actually prosecute Trump for mishandling documents - it's just too politically perilous. I think he just wanted the damn documents back in the government's possession. Now, if there's evidence that Trump was trying to sell these to someone...all bets are off. Garland would prosecute.

Garland can also use this example to set up the more important legal prosecution: the prosecution for Trump's incitement of lawlessness on January 6th. He'll probably wait until Georgia prosecutes Trump for fraud.
 

mudwhistle

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Total Banana Republican fishing expedition.

The warrant is so specific that in line c., it demands... every Presidential record created during Donald Trump's entire term. Every single one.

So yeah, this is a super-specific warrant.

View attachment 681556
View attachment 681557
A fishing expedition.
No specific evidence or crime.

This clearly states they were intending on rummaging thru Trump's shit till they found something.

THIS IS A CLEAR VIOLATION OF THE 4TH AMENDMENT!!!
 

Jim H - VA USA

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Comprehension fail.

The warrant included any documents created during Trump's term that he illegally had at Mar-A-Lago.

Like, say, a Top Secret/SCI war plan against Russia which was created during his term.

All caught up now?
That's not clear.

It literally says, "all documents illegally possessed including the following.... all records from your admin."

The word "including" is quite key, as the decision has already been made that all of these records are part of the aforementioned request for documents which are subject to the warrant.

Seems very sloppy wording to me, unless the alleged crime includes Trump failed to return some library books.

All caught up now? :)
 

BackAgain

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A fishing expedition.
No specific evidence or crime.

This clearly states they were intending on rummaging thru Trump's shit till they found something.

THIS IS A CLEAR VIOLATION OF THE 4TH AMENDMENT!!!
Standing alone it does look like a fishing expedition. However, the DOJ is clearly desperate enough to pretend that an alleged violation of the Presidential Records Act is somehow criminal.

As far as I can ascertain, an alleged violation of the Presidential Records Act is not a criminal act, under law.
 

mudwhistle

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Standing alone it does look like a fishing expedition. However, the DOJ is clearly desperate enough to pretend that an alleged violation of the Presidential Records Act is somehow criminal.

As far as I can ascertain, an alleged violation of the Presidential Records Act is not a criminal act, under law.
It's clearly a fishing expedition.
This was illegal and abusive.....and I think when the Repugs take control in the next couple of years they need to do the same thing to Biden, Obama, Clinton, and every Democrat leader.
 

Flopper

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No, sorry, Trump loses because if he had fully cooperated in June, they wouldn't have gone back to sweep his estate on Monday. Pretty common sense stuff really.
His cooperation turns out to be irrelevant. When an unauthorized person is found to have top secret and SCI documents (most secret of top secrets) in their house, they are in trouble, ex-president or not. I guess Trump could claim it was just an accident in packing. But these documents are kept under lock and key. A specific person always has assigned custody.
Total Banana Republican fishing expedition.

The warrant is so specific that in line c., it demands... every Presidential record created during Donald Trump's entire term. Every single one.

So yeah, this is a super-specific warrant.

View attachment 681556
View attachment 681557
The DOJ should ask for all of Trump's presidential documents because they are government property. Obama did not take any of his president documents. The National Archives took them all as they should. Then the Obama foundation ask and paid for digital copies of essentially all of his presidential records. This is the legal and correct way for a president to get copies of all his presidential records but when has Trump every done anything the legal and correct way. He takes what he wants and fights it out in court. This time when he took top secret documents, it's going to be a lot bigger problem for him.
 

Flopper

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It's clearly a fishing expedition.
This was illegal and abusive.....and I think when the Repugs take control in the next couple of years they need to do the same thing to Biden, Obama, Clinton, and every Democrat leader.
It is not a fishing expediential. All presidential documents are the property of the goverment not the president. The president is allowed to take personal property only which does not include any government documents and certainly no classified documents.
 

multivita-man

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His cooperation turns out to be irrelevant. When an unauthorized person is found to have top secret and SCI documents (most secret of top secrets) in their house, they are in trouble, ex-president or not. I guess Trump could claim it was just an accident in packing. But these documents are kept under lock and key. A specific person always has assigned custody.

For most any person other than the president, I'd agree. In theory, yes. But this is an ex-president we're talking about. I guarantee you, contrary to what MAGA-nuts are saying, Garland wanted none of this. Chris Wray wanted none of this. The judge who signed the fucking warrant wanted none of this. Nobody wanted to be party to this dark history. But the alternative is to say that the law they're sworn to uphold doesn't matter.
 

BackAgain

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Now a resident of a Red state! Hallelujah!
It's clearly a fishing expedition.
This was illegal and abusive.....and I think when the Repugs take control in the next couple of years they need to do the same thing to Biden, Obama, Clinton, and every Democrat leader.
So very right. Very recently I had counseled against it. But I now recognize that these filthy Dims need to get a massive dose of their own dirty medicine. And it has to be over a long period of time.

Something has to teach them to play by the rules — or they will never alter their insane and unacceptable misbehavior. They need to be crushed by the pain of how it feels to be on the receiving end.
 

mudwhistle

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His cooperation turns out to be irrelevant. When an unauthorized person is found to have top secret and SCI documents (most secret of top secrets) in their house, they are in trouble, ex-president or not. I guess Trump could claim it was just an accident in packing. But these documents are kept under lock and key. A specific person always has assigned custody.

The DOJ should ask for all of Trump's presidential documents because they are government property. Obama did not take any of his president documents. The National Archives took them all as they should. Then the Obama foundation ask and paid for digital copies of essentially all of his presidential records. This is the legal and correct way for a president to get copies of all his presidential records but when has Trump every done anything the legal and correct way. He takes what he wants and fights it out in court. This time when he took top secret documents, it's going to be a lot bigger problem for him.
Trump never touched that stuff. The records folks packed it for him and had it shipped to Mara-logo.
They had to have planted anything that might be Top Secret.
On Hannity tonight John Salomon said that Trump made a habit of declassifying everything he touched personally because he knew the FBI would pull a stunt like this...even when he was president.
This little known fact will soon come out.


"The 1978 Presidential Records Act, which requires presidents to turn over documents to the National Archives at the end of their administration, lacks an enforcement mechanism, but there are multiple federal laws regarding the handling of classified documents. Trump signed one such law in 2018, increasing the penalty for "unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material" from one year to five years in prison.

But those in Trump’s orbit say that no president is personally bound by the removal and retention rules governing classified documents, which can be declassified if the president simply says they are, according to Ric Grenell, who was Trump’s acting director of national intelligence and who handled highly classified information.

“There is no approval process for the president of the United States to declassify intelligence. There is this phony idea that he must provide notification for declassification but that’s just silly. Who is he supposed to notify? I think it’s the height of swampism to think the president should seek bureaucrats’ approval,” Grenell told NBC News, emphasizing that he wasn’t personally speaking for the president.

Trump himself said on his Truth Social platform Friday, "It was all declassified.""
 

MinTrut

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Yep, this would all be just a bad joke if it wasn't such a serious escalation by the UNiparty against DT & by proxy, all of his supporters & all those who still want a free America.

They have dragged us into dangerous new territory & it wasn't just by stupidity or incompetence.
There's a deeper plan here that isn't just about preventing DT from running again
Yup.
 

Esdraelon

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Comprehension fail.

The warrant included any documents created during Trump's term that he illegally had at Mar-A-Lago.

Like, say, a Top Secret/SCI war plan against Russia which was created during his term.

All caught up now?
Source? BTW, a sketchy, weakly asserted case for espionage STILL doesn't disqualify him. Your guys in DC are freaking out. I can't wait until they have to publicly admit that they CANNOT STOP HIM from running in '24.
 

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