Hello "pro choice" people.

[JoeB131]

Answer the question you coward. Why is ok to murder a perfectly healthy 21 week old fetus but not a 20 week old premie? Dont deflect from the moral dilemma that creates by saying a 20 week old is likely to die and people dont abort babies at 21 weeks all that often. If I only punch you in the nose every couple of months are you ok with that?

Actually, you wouldn't get past the first time you tried that.

Here's the thing. Before doctors will go through the motions of pretending to try to save a 20 week preemie that's going to die anyway, they make sure they get the parent's consent. If the parents say, "No, don't bother", they let nature take its course.

Again- it's a personal choice, and the rest of you need to learn to mind your own fucking business.

And you said that a fetus has no rights in the US because they werent BORN here. Well an illegal alien isnt born here either and as a noncitizen (just like the fetus you're talking about) doesnt have any rights under you interpretation. Look I think you're an idiot if you believe that but you need to clean up what you posted not me.

Actually, the constitution and US law pretty clearly spell out what rights aliens have.

I didn’t claim that the Constitution said it was a person. I merely denied your imbecile claim that it said a preborn child was not a person. And yes. It does say that for the class of humans, our constitutionally guaranteed rights belong to all. The rights of person born here and subject to our laws are the additional rights of citizens. It does not say that someone not yet born isn’t a person.

It also doesn't say it is, so into the medical waster container little globby goes...

You’re an idiot. A germ will never mature into a human being.

And neither will most zygotes. 2/3rds of them never attach to the uterine wall, and for the ones that do, half of them abort or miscarry.

 

[Couchpotato]

I believe life starts at conception so that discussion no longer interests me. How to get women to not abort does.

As do I but a large part of the reason women get abortions is because it's legal and as a society we have signaled to them that it's ok. Pot use has gone way up since it's been made legal in so many places, and kids now think you're crazy if you have an objection to using it. If people were going around killing homeless people and it was legal to do so, would we address the fact that it's immoral to kill people regardless of whether they are homeless or not and change the law or just address the reason why people are homeless?

 

[Couchpotato]

Actually, you wouldn't get past the first time you tried that.

Here's the thing. Before doctors will go through the motions of pretending to try to save a 20 week preemie that's going to die anyway, they make sure they get the parent's consent. If the parents say, "No, don't bother", they let nature take its course.

Again- it's a personal choice, and the rest of you need to learn to mind your own fucking business.


Actually, the constitution and US law pretty clearly spell out what rights aliens have.



It also doesn't say it is, so into the medical waster container little globby goes...

View attachment 631073



And neither will most zygotes. 2/3rds of them never attach to the uterine wall, and for the ones that do, half of them abort or miscarry.

so you're too much of a coward to answer the question. Got it. Thanks for playing.

 

[BackAgain]

Actually, you wouldn't get past the first time you tried that.

Here's the thing. Before doctors will go through the motions of pretending to try to save a 20 week preemie that's going to die anyway, they make sure they get the parent's consent. If the parents say, "No, don't bother", they let nature take its course.

Again- it's a personal choice, and the rest of you need to learn to mind your own fucking business.


Actually, the constitution and US law pretty clearly spell out what rights aliens have.



It also doesn't say it is, so into the medical waster container little globby goes...

View attachment 631073



And neither will most zygotes. 2/3rds of them never attach to the uterine wall, and for the ones that do, half of them abort or miscarry.

I love your use of made up numbers.

I recognize your fervent desire to deny that the slaughter of so many preborn humans is repugnant. But your mindless insistence that the life of a preborn human is not the life of a “person” is quite pathetic.

Newsflash for you dullards: you, too, are a glob of cells. if that’s a good enough of a basis to slaughter totally innocent and completely defenseless preborn human beings, then you must not have a very good argument to oppose your own execution.

 

[pknopp]

As do I but a large part of the reason women get abortions is because it's legal and as a society we have signaled to them that it's ok. Pot use has gone way up since it's been made legal in so many places, and kids now think you're crazy if you have an objection to using it. If people were going around killing homeless people and it was legal to do so, would we address the fact that it's immoral to kill people regardless of whether they are homeless or not and change the law or just address the reason why people are homeless?

Making it illegal is going to stop very few because it's never going to be made illegal everywhere.

 

[StashMan]

99% of all magaturd dumbfucks make up 47.9% of their statistics.

Show me how I made it up, or is that too much work for you to do? All you have is words buddy.

 

[Couchpotato]

Making it illegal is going to stop very few because it's never going to be made illegal everywhere.

Why? Murder is murder? Is killing homeless people legal in some states?

 

[pknopp]

Why? Murder is murder? Is killing homeless people legal in some states?

Irrelevant question as you know what I say to be true.

 

[Couchpotato]

Irrelevant question as you know what I say to be true.

It's only true because you are ceding the ground. If you want accept that abortion will be legal even though you know it's murder have at it but Im not doing that. My conscious wont allow it.

 

[pknopp]

It's only true because you are ceding the ground. If you want accept that abortion will be legal even though you know it's murder have at it but Im not doing that. My conscious wont allow it.

You don't have to accept anything. It's not going to change anything though.

 

[JoeB131]

As do I but a large part of the reason women get abortions is because it's legal and as a society we have signaled to them that it's ok. Pot use has gone way up since it's been made legal in so many places, and kids now think you're crazy if you have an objection to using it. If people were going around killing homeless people and it was legal to do so, would we address the fact that it's immoral to kill people regardless of whether they are homeless or not and change the law or just address the reason why people are homeless?

Actually, no, not really. Abortion is completely illegal in the Philippines, but Filipinas have more abortions than American women do. As long as a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, she will find a way to not be pregnant.

Here's a scary reality for you. There were just as many abortions occurring before Roe v. Wade as after. The birth rate did not drop in 1973. It did not drop in 1974. It actually started going UP in 1975.

so you're too much of a coward to answer the question. Got it. Thanks for playing.

I did answer it. Go find someone to explain the big words to you.

I love your use of made up numbers.

I recognize your fervent desire to deny that the slaughter of so many preborn humans is repugnant. But your mindless insistence that the life of a preborn human is not the life of a “person” is quite pathetic.

Newsflash for you dullards: you, too, are a glob of cells. if that’s a good enough of a basis to slaughter totally innocent and completely defenseless preborn human beings, then you must not have a very good argument to oppose your own execution.

 

[JoeB131]

I love your use of made up numbers.

I recognize your fervent desire to deny that the slaughter of so many preborn humans is repugnant. But your mindless insistence that the life of a preborn human is not the life of a “person” is quite pathetic.

Actually, its what the law says... a fetus isn't a person because it isn't viable outside the woman it is inside.

Newsflash for you dullards: you, too, are a glob of cells. if that’s a good enough of a basis to slaughter totally innocent and completely defenseless preborn human beings, then you must not have a very good argument to oppose your own execution.

Here's the thing. I'm a viable glob of cells that can pay taxes.

 

[Couchpotato]

Actually, no, not really. Abortion is completely illegal in the Philippines, but Filipinas have more abortions than American women do. As long as a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, she will find a way to not be pregnant.

Here's a scary reality for you. There were just as many abortions occurring before Roe v. Wade as after. The birth rate did not drop in 1973. It did not drop in 1974. It actually started going UP in 1975.



I did answer it. Go find someone to explain the big words to you.

No you didn’t your a fucking coward who tried to weasel his way out of it.

Yes or no. A 21 week old premie baby is in the nicu. I walk in and cut its head off. Murder?

 

[BackAgain]

Actually, its what the law says... a fetus isn't a person because it isn't viable outside the woman it is inside.

Nonsense.

Here's the thing. I'm a viable glob of cells that can pay taxes.

So, your test for “person” is the ability to pay taxes?

 

[Couchpotato]

Nonsense.


So, your test for “person” is the ability to pay taxes?

Well apparently being born here and paying taxes gets you protection from being exterminated.

 

[JoeB131]

No you didn’t your a fucking coward who tried to weasel his way out of it.

Yes or no. A 21 week old premie baby is in the nicu. I walk in and cut its head off. Murder?

Since it's living separately from the womb, not so much...

Again, prior to 22 weeks, it has almost no chance of survival... so they just wait for nature to take it's course.

After getting the parents to sign all the documents, of course.

 

[JoeB131]

So, your test for “person” is the ability to pay taxes?

Are you retarded?

Fetuses aren't people. The law doesn't recognize them as people.

 

[Couchpotato]

Since it's living separately from the womb, not so much...

Again, prior to 22 weeks, it has almost no chance of survival... so they just wait for nature to take it's course.

After getting the parents to sign all the documents, of course.

Yes or no dumb ass

 

[BackAgain]

Are you retarded?

Fetuses aren't people. The law doesn't recognize them as people.

No. You appear to be retarded, though. The question, you imbecile, is whether a preborn child should be viewed as a person. You keep speaking about “the” law. You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.

If you mean that stupid Roe v. Wade decision, that may not be the “law” much longer. And it isn’t controlling in, for example, Oklahoma. “The” law depends on things like jurisdiction.

Your desired definition of “person” isn’t all you’d like it to be.

 

[JoeB131]

No. You appear to be retarded, though. The question, you imbecile, is whether a preborn child should be viewed as a person. You keep speaking about “the” law. You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.

Well, the law is pretty clear.

You don't exist until a birth certificate has been issued.
You are not counted on the Census until after you are born.
You are not counted on the tax rolls until after you are born.

This really, really isn't complicated at all.

If you mean that stupid Roe v. Wade decision, that may not be the “law” much longer. And it isn’t controlling in, for example, Oklahoma. “The” law depends on things like jurisdiction.

Actually, I will admit, Roe is deficient in many ways, because it didn't clearly define when life begins. Also if you take it's logic of controlling one's body being a constitutional right, then you can throw out all the prostitution and drug laws. (Which I would be perfectly fine with.) It further got complicated by Doe v. Boland, which made the discussions on viability moot when it said the mother's health (even her mental health) could override any concerns about viability.

The reality was, of course, by 1972, all the unworkable abortion laws were being largely ignored by women and their doctors, and no one was being prosecuted for having or performing abortions. The Justices probably thought their decision was no more controversial than when they struck down all the contraception laws in 1965 with Griswald v. Connecticut. The the religious right needed an issue to cling on to when segregation wasn't playing well anymore.

Sadly, the worst thing that can happen to the right would be SCOTUS overturning Roe. It will cause a lot of misery for a few years until women rise up and start throwing Republicans out of office.

Your desired definition of “person” isn’t all you’d like it to be.

My definition of person is pragmatic. As stated above, before Roe, you had a bunch of abortion laws on the books that were being blatantly ignored by women. Women were never arrested for having abortions, and providers were only arrested when they screwed up and caused some kind of injury. Contrary to the horror images cast by feminists, in 1972, the last year before Roe, only 36 women died from abolition complications in states where abortion was illegal. But 22 died from complications in states where it was legal. Today, for the whole country, that number is about 10 a year. Which is still awful, but keep in mind that 96,000 Americans die every year from medical incompetence.

Now, to my point, you can scream about "THE BABIES" all day, but any law is only as helpful as your ability to enforce it. If a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, she'll find a way to be pregnant. She's got nine months of opportunity to take care of her little problem, and there are methods that weren't available in 1972. People will not report their neighbors, cops largely won't make arrests, big city prosecutors won't file charges and juries won't convict.

If I ever found myself on an abortion case, I wouldn't care if you had video of provider tossing the globby fetus into a medical waste container and shouting "Three Points", I'm voting to acquit, and then asking the judge why you wasted any of our time.

Fetuses aren't people when the women they are inside don't want them to be people.