Harry Truman, Quo Vadis?

[PoliticalChic]

The Truman biographers analyze him too deeply. Truman was just a high school graduate former clothing store owner who was in way over his head. He was hand picked by the crooked democrat establishment simply because he was a dummy and the movers and shakers could push him around. The liberal media created a fake legacy for Truman like they did for all the democrat administrations in the 20th century.

While a great deal of that is true, Truman showed the strength and insight necessary to try to reverse some of the damage done by Roosevelt.

In a President, vision is more important than what might be considered high IQ.

Thus...

“I would rather be governed by the first 2000 people in the Manhattan phone book than the entire faculty of Harvard.”


― William F. Buckley Jr.

You can measure I.Q. but "vision" is subject to speculation. Truman was a capitalist for sure but he didn't have a clue about the international threat of communism. When House democrats created HUAC Truman went along with it and later on went along with the media and blamed a single republican senator when the anti-communist era went sour.

Truman was, early on, exactly what you say.

The point of the thread is that he learned, and, to an extent, became very different from the Rooseveltian appeasers of Stalin.

If you don't believe that America owes him a debt, then read about Henry Wallace....what we could have had.

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. When Harry Truman became President, a bureaucrat could practically wear a sign saying " I answer to Stalin and nobody else!"

And there were no penalties!


The atmosphere created, or at least sanctioned, by Franklin Roosevelt, made it almost pro forma for regular Americans to spy for Russia and China.


To get a feeling for the United States, study:

" The Amerasia Spy Case.

Harvey Klehr and Ronald Radosh provide a full-scale history of the first public drama featuring charges that respectable American citizens had spied for the Communists.

The Amerasia case remained a staple in American political life for the next half-decade. It provoked charges by conservatives of a cover-up of extensive Communist infiltration of the government and accusations by liberals of a witch-hunt designed to intimidate the press. And it played a significant role in the hearings held to examine Senator Joseph McCarthy's charge that the State Department had been infiltrated by a clique of 'card carrying Communists.' Klehr and Radosh, the first researchers to have obtained the FBI files on the case, show that a cover-up was indeed orchestrated by prominent government officials."
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Amerasia-Spy-Case-Harvey-Klehr/dp/0807822450]Amerasia Spy Case: Harvey Klehr, Ronald Radosh: 9780807822456: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]


That need be repeated: "...a cover-up was indeed orchestrated by prominent government officials."




a. The "Amerasia" case is one of the most incredible chapters in the whole story of Truman's wretched administration. The magazine was directed by Phillip Jaffe and Frederick Vanderbilt Field. Both were officials of the communist-dominated Institute of Pacific Relations and both were identified in sworn testimony before the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee as members of the Communist Party.

Investigation began when 'Amerasia' published an article containing language taken verbatim from a secret OSS report. Visiting the New York offices of the magazine at night, agents were astounded to find stacks of government documents, most of them marked "secret" or "top secret." One of the documents bore the notation "A Bomb."

The FBI found that documents were flowing from the State Department to Amerasia and back. Some of the documents originated in the army and navy intelligence offices and in the OSS, but they all appeared to be funneled through the State Department to Amerasia.

John Service, a State Department foreign service officer, was arrested by the FBI. Service had been detected visiting Jaffe's hotel room and turning over documents to him with a warning that they were secret. Service admitted that he had made copies of his own secret documents and turned them over to Jaffe. Yet he was neither indicted nor dismissed from the State Department. It was not until five years later, after he had been attacked by Senator McCarthy, that the Loyalty Review Board of the Civil Service Commission forced the State Department to fire him as a security risk.

The indictments of Jaffe and Emanuel Larsen, a State Department employee, were dismissed and charges of simple larceny were substituted. On a quiet Saturday morning the prosecutor slipped into court and persuaded the judge to let Jaffe and Larsen off with fines of $2,500 and $500 respectively, both of which Jaffe paid. The prosecutor, representing the defendants as "journalists," said it was merely a case of excessive zeal.
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution,"p. 142-143




One of the main reasons not to commit treason, or espionage, was the danger of what could happen if caught.

"...neither indicted nor dismissed from the State Department..."


That was not the case during the Roosevelt or Truman administrations.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Was it Reagan, Nixon or Eisenhower that finally got all those commies out of our govt?

You are assuming a 'fact' not in evidence.


Try to be more accurate.

 

[PoliticalChic]

NATO, Marshall Plan, formation of Israel, Berlin Airlift, Korea, fought striking railroad, mining, and steel unions here in the states.

Truman sure sounded like one of Uncle Joe's minions.

Stay tuned, and later in the thread I will disabuse you of your error.

 

[Steven_R]

9. When Harry Truman became President, a bureaucrat could practically wear a sign saying " I answer to Stalin and nobody else!"

And there were no penalties!

Well, even if that were true in April of 1945, when Truman became president, lest we forget that in March 1947, Truman issued Executive Order 9835 which required loyalty oaths from government employees and contractors (and was later used by many other government and private entities as well) and allowed the DoJ, FBI, and Treasury to crawl up anyone's butt with just the merest hint of Communism.

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. When Harry Truman became President, a bureaucrat could practically wear a sign saying " I answer to Stalin and nobody else!"

And there were no penalties!

Well, even if that were true in April of 1945, when Truman became president, lest we forget that in March 1947, Truman issued Executive Order 9835 which required loyalty oaths from government employees and contractors (and was later used by many other government and private entities as well) and allowed the DoJ, FBI, and Treasury to crawl up anyone's butt with just the merest hint of Communism.

Another excellent point....but wait, and I'll cover that misunderstanding, too.

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. When Harry Truman became President, a bureaucrat could practically wear a sign saying " I answer to Stalin and nobody else!"

And there were no penalties!

Well, even if that were true in April of 1945, when Truman became president, lest we forget that in March 1947, Truman issued Executive Order 9835 which required loyalty oaths from government employees and contractors (and was later used by many other government and private entities as well) and allowed the DoJ, FBI, and Treasury to crawl up anyone's butt with just the merest hint of Communism.

And....if you know about the case mentioned, the Amerasia, what does that tell you about the milieu?

 

[Steven_R]

Even if you're correct and every American in government was a card carrying commie during the FDR years, it's hard to take your thesis that Truman was just another fellow traveler given the historical record. Truman went to war in Asia over communism, threatened to go to war in Europe over communism, and did all kinds of things like quash unions and tell the FBI to go after communism with a vengeance here in the US.

It's kind of hard to accuse someone of being a Red when their actions show them going out of their way to fight the Reds. Cherry picked quotes just are not enough to offset stuff like the Korean War or telling the Justice Department to ferret out commies in government.

 

[Friends]

A famous passage in "Witness," by Whittaker Chambers, continually bears remembering: "You don't understand the class structure of American society," said Smetana, "or you would not ask such a question. In the United States, the working class are Democrats. The middle class are Republicans. The upper class are Communists."

Harry Truman had to confront this truth.

1. It has been one of those blessings of Providence that Harry Truman replaced the communist Henry Wallace as Roosevelt's vice president. Truman, a fine American.....yet he could not resist the 'communist disease' any more than many other fine Americans.

The assertion that the members of the American upper class are Communists is even more ridiculous than the assertion that the Jews are Communists.

There has never been any chance of a Communist dictatorship in the United States. What you call "the Communist disease" is the belief that the U.S. government should play a large role in the economy, and that it should improve the lives of ordinary Americans.

Henry Wallace was not a Communist, but a somewhat eclectic and syncretistic Christian.

 

[Friends]

9. When Harry Truman became President, a bureaucrat could practically wear a sign saying " I answer to Stalin and nobody else!"

And there were no penalties!

Well, even if that were true in April of 1945, when Truman became president, lest we forget that in March 1947, Truman issued Executive Order 9835 which required loyalty oaths from government employees and contractors (and was later used by many other government and private entities as well) and allowed the DoJ, FBI, and Treasury to crawl up anyone's butt with just the merest hint of Communism.

Loyalty oaths were part of the right wing equivalent of the current left wing reign of political correctness. They were a way of persecuting Communist Party members, Communist sympathizers, democratic socialists, and even many liberals. These had every right to work for the government, as long as they passed the civil service exams and did not do anything illegal.

Communist subversion was not a legitimate concern during the Cold War. Communists and Communist sympathizers had every right under the Constitution to express their opinions. They had the right to direct, produce, and write film scripts for pro Communist Hollywood movies.

Democracy works best when the voters are exposed to a wide variety of opinions. Those who worried about "Communist infiltration" of this or that were afraid that in the free market of ideas their ideas could not compete with left wing ideas.

Communist espionage was a legitimate issue. Nevertheless, a Communist spy would do anything to cover his activities. He would sign a loyalty oath. He would be active in the Republican Party. He would even join the John Birch Society.

 

[Friends]

While a great deal of that is true, Truman showed the strength and insight necessary to try to reverse some of the damage done by Roosevelt.

What damage?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Even if you're correct and every American in government was a card carrying commie during the FDR years, it's hard to take your thesis that Truman was just another fellow traveler given the historical record. Truman went to war in Asia over communism, threatened to go to war in Europe over communism, and did all kinds of things like quash unions and tell the FBI to go after communism with a vengeance here in the US.

It's kind of hard to accuse someone of being a Red when their actions show them going out of their way to fight the Reds. Cherry picked quotes just are not enough to offset stuff like the Korean War or telling the Justice Department to ferret out commies in government.

" it's hard to take your thesis that Truman was just another fellow traveler given the historical record."
The 'historical record' has been clouded and altered.

I will show the metamorphosis of Harry Truman.

But he acquiesced to the communists in the government.
That is the definition of 'fellow traveler.'


10. J. Anthony Panuch, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for administration, testified before the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee on June 25, 1953, that "Mr. Acheson and Mr. Hiss at the time that I was in the department were sympathetic to the soviet policy." This was in 1945 and 1946, and " naturally we had a file
on Alger Hiss, and the file showed a good deal of the matters that came out before the Un-American Activities Committee in 1948 and subsequently came out at the trial."

Normally the FBI merely carries out investigations and submits evidence, without making recommendations, but FBI Director Hoover departed from his usual practice and recommended Hiss' dismissal from the department in 1946.
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," chapter IX

a. Truman refused to accept the charges, famously calling same a "red herring."



b. A reminder of the relationship that Roosevelt had with Hiss.
"A young American diplomat was the leading force in the designing of the United Nations. He was secretary of the Dumbarten Oaks Conversations from August to October of 1944 where most of the preliminary planning for the U.N. was done.

He was Roosevelt's right-hand man in February of 1945 at Yalta where the postwar boundaries of Europe were drawn (Roosevelt was a dying man at the time. His death came only ten weeks later).

At Yalta it was agreed that the Soviet Union would have three votes (one each for Russia, Ukraine, and Byelorussia) in the U.N. General Assembly, even though the United States had only one. At Yalta much of Europe was placed under the iron heel of communist rule. At Yalta, Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin appointed this young diplomatic shining star to be the first Secretary-general of the U.N. for the founding conference held in San Francisco,April/June of 1945.

All of this seemed well and good until three years later. Alger Hiss was exposed as a communist spy...."
What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know


The relationship with Hiss continued under Truman.




11. Dean Acheson sent two emissaries to Panuch to find out how much evidence
the department's own security officers had against Hiss and Panuch indicated that it was conclusive.

Acheson learned that John Foster Dulles, his friend and fellow one-worlder, was about to be made chairman of the board of trustees of the Carnegie Endowment for
International Peace and asked Dulles if he couldn't take care of Hiss.

Dulles knew Hiss, having been closely associated with him in United Nations conferences, and was favorably disposed toward him as a candidate for president of the Carnegie Endowment. So, Dulles consulted with James Reston of the New York Times and the late Bert Andrews of the New York Herald-Tribune, and they agreed that Hiss would be a superlative choice!
"Witness," by Whittaker Chambers, p. 648.

a. On the day Hiss was sentenced to five years in prison, Acheson told reporters: "I will not turn my back on Alger Hiss."



Again....take note of the ubiquitous buddy-buddy attitude toward communists and communism.

 

[PoliticalChic]

While a great deal of that is true, Truman showed the strength and insight necessary to try to reverse some of the damage done by Roosevelt.

What damage?

Two succinct, yet profound ripostes:


1. The shredding of the Constitution

2. A surfeit of ignoramuses like you.

 

[Moonglow]

Was it Reagan, Nixon or Eisenhower that finally got all those commies out of our govt?

You are assuming a 'fact' not in evidence.


Try to be more accurate.

Your the one constantly blathering about communist control of our govt. Now. When were the commies ousted that you claim, ran our govt.?

 

[Friends]

While a great deal of that is true, Truman showed the strength and insight necessary to try to reverse some of the damage done by Roosevelt.

What damage?

Two succinct, yet profound ripostes:


1. The shredding of the Constitution

2. A surfeit of ignoramuses like you.

How did he shred the Constitution? Quote the specific passages of the Constitution that he violated, and explain how he violated them.

 

[Unkotare]

What damage?

Two succinct, yet profound ripostes:


1. The shredding of the Constitution

2. A surfeit of ignoramuses like you.

How did he shred the Constitution? Quote the specific passages of the Constitution that he violated, and explain how he violated them.

Go sit in the corner and play with a ball of yarn, you idiot. You're about 1,000 pages late to the discussion and it's over your head anyway.

 

[Moonglow]

Friends has every right to ask...

 

[Unkotare]

Friends has every right to ask...

He can go back and read what has been covered a million times already in this and dozens of other threads. That is, if he can find someone to help him read the big words.

 

[regent]

Two succinct, yet profound ripostes:


1. The shredding of the Constitution

2. A surfeit of ignoramuses like you.

How did he shred the Constitution? Quote the specific passages of the Constitution that he violated, and explain how he violated them.

Go sit in the corner and play with a ball of yarn, you idiot. You're about 1,000 pages late to the discussion and it's over your head anyway.

So the Constituton is gone, shredded, kaput, and FDR did it. Do we have a pretend Constitution now or just what? What does the Supreme Court do when these Constitutional issues come before the Court? Too bad because the Constitution had some good liberal parts.
Adios Constitution.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Was it Reagan, Nixon or Eisenhower that finally got all those commies out of our govt?

You are assuming a 'fact' not in evidence.


Try to be more accurate.

Your the one constantly blathering about communist control of our govt. Now. When were the commies ousted that you claim, ran our govt.?

Again....your assumption is, at the least, questionable....



1. Obama wasn't the first Bolshevik to support socialized medicine.

For context, there was Henry Sigerist: "He devoted himself to the study of history of medicine. Socialized Medicine in the Soviet Union (1937), and History of Medicine were among his most important works. He emerged as a major spokesman for "compulsory health insurance". ...He attacked the American Medical Association because of his conflicting views on socialized medicine." Henry E. Sigerist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


a. And, Sigerist was one of the apologists for Stalin, including his state-engineered famine in the Ukraine. 7 million perished (The History Place - Genocide in the 20th Century: Stalin's Forced Famine 1932-33).


b. Sigerist "shared with the architects of Soviet health policy under Stalin an outlook best described as medical totalitarianism. He really believed that humanity would be better off if every individual were under the medical supervision of the state from cradle to grave....[and] Sigerist's belief in the necessity for state control over all aspects of medicine ultimately made him an apologist for state control over most aspects of human life."
Fee and Brown, eds. "Making Medical History: The Life and Times of Henry E. Sigerist," p. 252




Did you notice who voted for totalitarian socialized medicine?

Yes....government officials.