Harry Truman, Quo Vadis?

[regent]

Go sit in the corner and play with a ball of yarn, you idiot. You're about 1,000 pages late to the discussion and it's over your head anyway.

So the Constituton is gone, shredded, kaput, and FDR did it. Do we have a pretend Constitution now or just what? What does the Supreme Court do when these Constitutional issues come before the Court? Too bad because the Constitution had some good liberal parts.
Adios Constitution.

1. "So the Constituton (sic) is gone, shredded, kaput, and FDR did it."

Good to see you finally catching on! Better late than never.




2. "Do we have a pretend Constitution now or just what?"

Get that pencil and paper ready, reggie....

Theodore J, Lowi, “The End of Liberalism: The Second Republic of the United States”

“Theodore Lowi, a political science eminence at Cornell University, years ago drew a bead on what was wrong with the American polity. In his "The End of Liberalism: The Second Republic of the United States," he claimed that the Founder's constitution of 1787 had been surreptitiously replaced with a new one by the FDR administration, and no one had actually noticed it for seventy-plus years. In current argot, we have been operating under US Constitution, 2.0 since the Roosevelt era. The contours of the constitution of this "Second Republic" as he deemed it, bears some scrutiny, as the Obama Administration and the 112th Congress go to work bringing even more change--possibly US Constitution 3.0. The preamble and first article of the actual constitution we have been living under, which Lowi acutely discerned, suffice to show where an Obama constitution will be taking off from. Archived-Articles: America's Third Republic?




In part:

PREAMBLE. There ought to be a national presence in every aspect of the lives of American citizens. National power is no longer a necessary evil; it is a positive virtue.

Article I. It is the primary purpose of this national government to provide domestic tranquility by reducing risk. This risk may be physical or it may be fiscal. In order to fulfill this sacred obligation, the national government shall be deemed to have sufficient power to eliminate threats from the environment through regulation, and to eliminate threats from economic uncertainty through insurance.

Article II. The separation of powers to the contrary notwithstanding, the center of this national government is the presidency. Said office is authorized to use any powers, real or imagined, to set our nation to rights making any rules or regulations the president deems appropriate; the president may delegate this authority to any other official or agency. The right to make all such rules and regulations is based on the assumption in this constitution that the office of the presidency embodies the will of the real majority of the American nation.

Article III. Congress exists, but only as a consensual body. Congress possesses all legislative authority but should limit itself to the delegation of broad grants of unstructured authority to the president. Congress must take care never to draft a careful and precise statute because this would interfere with the judgment of the president and his professional and full time administrators.

Article IV. There exists a separate administrative branch composed of persons whose right to govern is based on two principles: (1), the delegations of power flowing from Congress; and (2), the authority inherent in professional training and promotion through an administrative hierarchy. Congress and the courts may provide for administrative procedures and have the power to review agencies for their observance of these procedures; but in no instance should Congress or the courts attempt to displace the judgment of the administrators with their own.

Article V. The Judicial branch is responsible for two functions: (1), to preserve the procedural rights of citizens before all federal courts, state and local courts, and administrative agencies; and (2), to apply the Fourteenth Amendment of the 1787 Constitution as a natural-law defense of all substantive and procedural rights. The appellate courts shall exercise vigorous judicial review of all state and local government and court decisions, but in no instance shall the courts review the constitutionality of Congress’s grants of authority to the president or to the federal administrative agencies.

Article VI. The public interest shall be defined by the satisfaction of the voters in their constituencies. The test of public interest is reelection.

Article VII. The public interest to the contrary notwithstanding, actual policy making will not come from voter preferences or congressional enactments but form a process of tripartite bargaining between specialized administrators, relevant members of Congress, and the representatives of self-selected organized interests. Principalities And Powers: Goodbye Liberalism: Hello Socialism



You have so very much to learn......don't you, reggie.

Ah the Constitution is back, seems all intact and shippy shape. And all this time we thought it was gone, and the dastardly villan that killed it was Jefferson, if not Jefferson, then Jackson, if not Jackson then and on down the line. The real quest is to find a president that didn't kill the Constituton. I vote for William Henry Harrison.

 

[SmedlyButler]

Did I miss anything? Let's see;

Copy_Paste Copy_Paste Copy_Paste..... CHECK

Copy_Paste Copy_Paste Copy_Paste..... CHECK

Yadda Yadda Yadda................................ CHECK

No, doesn't look like I missed a thing. Just another installment of "PC's Legendary Copied and Pasted Version of Alternative Reality". Or revisionist "history", or whatever she calls it.

I think you missed the part where you refuted anything she had to say. Maybe you just forgot to get around to that?

I think you missed the part where I mentioned "alternate reality". One has no obligation to refute an imaginary construct. If one had the time they might present the actual events and motives.

History as you know is a diabolically complex subject. An idle mind could weave any fanciful narrative they pleased with cherry-picked "facts" and reliance on witnesses of quesrionable character, credibility or motive. I have in past posts (before fully realizing what a total waste of time it was) pointed this out and identified some of those winesses. If you haven't you should have noticed how often she gives an inordinate amount of wieight to Soviet defectors and ex-spies accounts of events to disparage great Americans such as Roosevelt and Harry Hopkins, as if they have not been proven to have ulterior motives in case after case.

Sometime, if I have nothing better to do (like if there's not a re-run of "Gilligan's Island" on the tube that I haven't seen 43 times) I might "crack the nut" again. Maybe.

 

[SmedlyButler]

I still want to know what president got rid of the commies in our govt.?????

I think she's hinting they are still there. Give her time, she's making this stuff up as she goes along. Creativiy is laborious time consuming work.

 

[Unkotare]

Did I miss anything? Let's see;

Copy_Paste Copy_Paste Copy_Paste..... CHECK

Copy_Paste Copy_Paste Copy_Paste..... CHECK

Yadda Yadda Yadda................................ CHECK

No, doesn't look like I missed a thing. Just another installment of "PC's Legendary Copied and Pasted Version of Alternative Reality". Or revisionist "history", or whatever she calls it.

I think you missed the part where you refuted anything she had to say. Maybe you just forgot to get around to that?

I think you missed the part where I mentioned "alternate reality". One has no obligation to refute an imaginary construct.

I thought you said it was all copy and paste? Now it's all "imagination"? Copying and pasting imagination? Which is it?

 

[PoliticalChic]

NATO, Marshall Plan, formation of Israel, Berlin Airlift, Korea, fought striking railroad, mining, and steel unions here in the states.

Truman sure sounded like one of Uncle Joe's minions.

".... Marshall Plan,....
Truman sure sounded like one of Uncle Joe's minions"



Let's go over my thesis.
a. Truman contracted the disease so prevalent in the government: communism
b. over a period of years, his realization of the malevolence of communism blossomed.
c. a deeper understanding of what appears to be anti-communist will allow you to see what Truman had to battle.



1. Apologists for Truman, Marshall, and Acheson deny that their actions served the cause of world communism, either consciously, or inadvertently. As you did, they point to the so-called Truman doctrine, and the Marshall plan and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, all as elements of a policy of "containing" Soviet communism.

2. Be aware of officials like James Byrnes was Sec'y of State after the war, and woefully unprepared to deal with the Soviets. He was out of the Congress, and was a deal maker, and perfectly content to compromise, even on matters of principle. Truman called Byrnes an appeaser and said he "failed miserably as Secretary of State."
One of the aspects of American politicians that made the communists plans easier to accomplish was their, folks like Byrnes' desire to go along to get along.




3. Want to see Truman's indecisiveness about communism?

Truman read and approved a world-shaking appeasement speech which his Secretary of Commerce, Henry Wallace, delivered at Madison Square Garden on September 12, 1946. Henry Wallace, whom the Communists supported for president two years later, said:
"I am neither anti-British, nor pro-British-neither anti-Russian, nor pro-Russian. And just two days ago, when President Truman read these words, he said they represented the policy of his administration."
Shortly thereafter, Truman fired Wallace for making a speech which Truman had approved.
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p. 151-152





4. On March 12, 1947, Truman appeared before Congress and requested $400,000,000 for aid to Greece and Turkey. At the same time he announced a policy of aiding "free peoples every where against aggressive movements that seek to impose upon them totalitarian regimes." He did not mention the Soviet Union by name but the reference was unmistakable.
The anti-Communist label was pasted on to assuage anti-spending sentiment in Congress.


5. Although the Greek-Turkish aid program was pegged as an anti-communist project, the Marshall plan was not, despite efforts of the Truman-Marshall-Acheson apologists to represent the two as parts of the same piece. In fact, some try to trace the plan to Acheson in Cleveland, Mississippi, on May 8, 1947. Truman had been slated to deliver this speech but was unable to do so. Acheson, speaking for Truman, merely restated the so-called Truman doctrine. (see Johnathan Daniels book, "The Man of Independence").



6. Remember what I've been saying about pro-communist bent of government officials:
There was consternation in the State Department about the anticommunist implications of the Truman doctrine. Speaking at Harvard University on June 5, 1947, George Marshall said: "Our policy is directed not against any country or doctrine but against hunger, poverty, desperation and chaos...."
(Wouldn't want to alienate any communists...)

and "Any government that is willing to assist in the task of recovery will find full cooperation..."
On June 12, Marshall emphasized that the Soviet Union was included in his invitation to come and get it,

a. On June 17, the pro-communist PM, now defunct, exulted:
"Unlike the Truman doctrine, which explicitly and by definition excluded from aid any of the countries in Russia's sphere of influence, the Marshall doctrine is careful to include even Russia itself as the possible recipient of aid. It is not accompanied, as the Truman doctrine was, by emotional anticommunist face making and name calling." (Quoted in Manly, Op. Cit.)


So....the Marshall Plan was not the anti-communist proposal that you believe it to be.

b. Moscow decided to stay out and sabotage the program, presumably on the theory that by maintaining pressure against western Europe it could force the United States to weaken itself by an endless expenditure of money and materials.





7. . Earl Browder, who was the head of the American Communist Party, tried to suggest that American aid to Europe was actually pushing Western Europe toward socialism, reducing them to dependence:
" . . American power commands the tides of socialism to halt; but American action, by choking the independent development of western European economy, reduces it to a level which multiplies the necessity of socialism.... -and the shove comes from America, not from Russia,"...
"Keynes, Foster And Marx, Part 1: State Capitalism And Progress" by Earl Browder.

Since this result obviously is what the Kremlin wants, this explains Alger Hiss's support of the Marshall plan.



The conclusion:
Franklin Roosevelt gave the government a permanent bend in the direction of world communism, and much of that direction remains to this day.

Truman began with a desire to follow Roosevelt's design....but, ultimately, moved a number of degrees to the right.

Both his awakening and his battle to right the ship of state was a daily battle.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So the Constituton is gone, shredded, kaput, and FDR did it. Do we have a pretend Constitution now or just what? What does the Supreme Court do when these Constitutional issues come before the Court? Too bad because the Constitution had some good liberal parts.
Adios Constitution.

1. "So the Constituton (sic) is gone, shredded, kaput, and FDR did it."

Good to see you finally catching on! Better late than never.




2. "Do we have a pretend Constitution now or just what?"

Get that pencil and paper ready, reggie....

Theodore J, Lowi, “The End of Liberalism: The Second Republic of the United States”

“Theodore Lowi, a political science eminence at Cornell University, years ago drew a bead on what was wrong with the American polity. In his "The End of Liberalism: The Second Republic of the United States," he claimed that the Founder's constitution of 1787 had been surreptitiously replaced with a new one by the FDR administration, and no one had actually noticed it for seventy-plus years. In current argot, we have been operating under US Constitution, 2.0 since the Roosevelt era. The contours of the constitution of this "Second Republic" as he deemed it, bears some scrutiny, as the Obama Administration and the 112th Congress go to work bringing even more change--possibly US Constitution 3.0. The preamble and first article of the actual constitution we have been living under, which Lowi acutely discerned, suffice to show where an Obama constitution will be taking off from. Archived-Articles: America's Third Republic?




In part:

PREAMBLE. There ought to be a national presence in every aspect of the lives of American citizens. National power is no longer a necessary evil; it is a positive virtue.

Article I. It is the primary purpose of this national government to provide domestic tranquility by reducing risk. This risk may be physical or it may be fiscal. In order to fulfill this sacred obligation, the national government shall be deemed to have sufficient power to eliminate threats from the environment through regulation, and to eliminate threats from economic uncertainty through insurance.

Article II. The separation of powers to the contrary notwithstanding, the center of this national government is the presidency. Said office is authorized to use any powers, real or imagined, to set our nation to rights making any rules or regulations the president deems appropriate; the president may delegate this authority to any other official or agency. The right to make all such rules and regulations is based on the assumption in this constitution that the office of the presidency embodies the will of the real majority of the American nation.

Article III. Congress exists, but only as a consensual body. Congress possesses all legislative authority but should limit itself to the delegation of broad grants of unstructured authority to the president. Congress must take care never to draft a careful and precise statute because this would interfere with the judgment of the president and his professional and full time administrators.

Article IV. There exists a separate administrative branch composed of persons whose right to govern is based on two principles: (1), the delegations of power flowing from Congress; and (2), the authority inherent in professional training and promotion through an administrative hierarchy. Congress and the courts may provide for administrative procedures and have the power to review agencies for their observance of these procedures; but in no instance should Congress or the courts attempt to displace the judgment of the administrators with their own.

Article V. The Judicial branch is responsible for two functions: (1), to preserve the procedural rights of citizens before all federal courts, state and local courts, and administrative agencies; and (2), to apply the Fourteenth Amendment of the 1787 Constitution as a natural-law defense of all substantive and procedural rights. The appellate courts shall exercise vigorous judicial review of all state and local government and court decisions, but in no instance shall the courts review the constitutionality of Congress’s grants of authority to the president or to the federal administrative agencies.

Article VI. The public interest shall be defined by the satisfaction of the voters in their constituencies. The test of public interest is reelection.

Article VII. The public interest to the contrary notwithstanding, actual policy making will not come from voter preferences or congressional enactments but form a process of tripartite bargaining between specialized administrators, relevant members of Congress, and the representatives of self-selected organized interests. Principalities And Powers: Goodbye Liberalism: Hello Socialism



You have so very much to learn......don't you, reggie.

Ah the Constitution is back, seems all intact and shippy shape. And all this time we thought it was gone, and the dastardly villan that killed it was Jefferson, if not Jefferson, then Jackson, if not Jackson then and on down the line. The real quest is to find a president that didn't kill the Constituton. I vote for William Henry Harrison.

So, let's go over what has occurred.


With very little effort, I have proven that the brainwashing and indoctrination that you have suffered is....

....alas.....

....indelible.




Or, at least, that you are not strong minded enough to break free.



So sad.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Again....your assumption is, at the least, questionable....

1. Obama wasn't the first Bolshevik to support socialized medicine.

For context, there was Henry Sigerist: "He devoted himself to the study of history of medicine. Socialized Medicine in the Soviet Union (1937), and History of Medicine were among his most important works. He emerged as a major spokesman for "compulsory health insurance". ...He attacked the American Medical Association because of his conflicting views on socialized medicine." Henry E. Sigerist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1. The whole of Germany shall be declared a single and indivisible republic.
2. Every German, having reached the age of 21, shall have the right to vote and to be elected, provided he has not been convicted of a criminal offence.
3. Representatives of the people shall receive payment so that workers, too, shall be able to become members of the German parliament...

13. Complete separation of Church and State. The clergy of every denomination shall be paid only by the voluntary contributions of their congregations...

15. The introduction of steeply graduated taxes, and the abolition of taxes on articles of
consumption...

17. Universal and free education of the people.

The Committee
Karl Marx, Karl Schapper, H. Bauer, F. Engels, J. Moll, W. Wolff
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/Manifesto.pdf

--------

Karl Marx had a number of good ideas. I am glad we adopted many of them.

"Karl Marx had a number of good ideas. I am glad we adopted many of them."


Wow!!!!

I am sooooooo glad you posted this proof of everything I've been saying about individuals on your side of the divide!!!!!

The only way this could be better if you out-and-out agreed with Marx about genocide.

Wouldya'?



Hey....earlier I asked you to admit to being an ignoramus.....and you did!!!



I thought of sending you a rep, but you'd probably rather have some prunes and Geritol, huh?

 

[Unkotare]

Again....your assumption is, at the least, questionable....

1. Obama wasn't the first Bolshevik to support socialized medicine.

For context, there was Henry Sigerist: "He devoted himself to the study of history of medicine. Socialized Medicine in the Soviet Union (1937), and History of Medicine were among his most important works. He emerged as a major spokesman for "compulsory health insurance". ...He attacked the American Medical Association because of his conflicting views on socialized medicine." Henry E. Sigerist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1. The whole of Germany shall be declared a single and indivisible republic.
2. Every German, having reached the age of 21, shall have the right to vote and to be elected, provided he has not been convicted of a criminal offence.
3. Representatives of the people shall receive payment so that workers, too, shall be able to become members of the German parliament...

13. Complete separation of Church and State. The clergy of every denomination shall be paid only by the voluntary contributions of their congregations...

15. The introduction of steeply graduated taxes, and the abolition of taxes on articles of
consumption...

17. Universal and free education of the people.

The Committee
Karl Marx, Karl Schapper, H. Bauer, F. Engels, J. Moll, W. Wolff
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/Manifesto.pdf

--------

Karl Marx had a number of good ideas. I am glad we adopted many of them.

"Karl Marx had a number of good ideas. I am glad we adopted many of them."


Wow!!!!

I am sooooooo glad you posted this proof of everything I've been saying about individuals on your side of the divide!!!!!

And typical of so many on the left; he is a vile, unapologetic, racist scum as well. When he's not playing Karl Marx nuthugger here he is on the Race Relations forum trying to find new lows in racist vitriol. Certainly no surprise.

 

[Moonglow]

So the Constituton is gone, shredded, kaput, and FDR did it. Do we have a pretend Constitution now or just what? What does the Supreme Court do when these Constitutional issues come before the Court? Too bad because the Constitution had some good liberal parts.
Adios Constitution.

1. "So the Constituton (sic) is gone, shredded, kaput, and FDR did it."

Good to see you finally catching on! Better late than never.




2. "Do we have a pretend Constitution now or just what?"

Get that pencil and paper ready, reggie....

Theodore J, Lowi, “The End of Liberalism: The Second Republic of the United States”

“Theodore Lowi, a political science eminence at Cornell University, years ago drew a bead on what was wrong with the American polity. In his "The End of Liberalism: The Second Republic of the United States," he claimed that the Founder's constitution of 1787 had been surreptitiously replaced with a new one by the FDR administration, and no one had actually noticed it for seventy-plus years. In current argot, we have been operating under US Constitution, 2.0 since the Roosevelt era. The contours of the constitution of this "Second Republic" as he deemed it, bears some scrutiny, as the Obama Administration and the 112th Congress go to work bringing even more change--possibly US Constitution 3.0. The preamble and first article of the actual constitution we have been living under, which Lowi acutely discerned, suffice to show where an Obama constitution will be taking off from. Archived-Articles: America's Third Republic?




In part:

PREAMBLE. There ought to be a national presence in every aspect of the lives of American citizens. National power is no longer a necessary evil; it is a positive virtue.

Article I. It is the primary purpose of this national government to provide domestic tranquility by reducing risk. This risk may be physical or it may be fiscal. In order to fulfill this sacred obligation, the national government shall be deemed to have sufficient power to eliminate threats from the environment through regulation, and to eliminate threats from economic uncertainty through insurance.

Article II. The separation of powers to the contrary notwithstanding, the center of this national government is the presidency. Said office is authorized to use any powers, real or imagined, to set our nation to rights making any rules or regulations the president deems appropriate; the president may delegate this authority to any other official or agency. The right to make all such rules and regulations is based on the assumption in this constitution that the office of the presidency embodies the will of the real majority of the American nation.

Article III. Congress exists, but only as a consensual body. Congress possesses all legislative authority but should limit itself to the delegation of broad grants of unstructured authority to the president. Congress must take care never to draft a careful and precise statute because this would interfere with the judgment of the president and his professional and full time administrators.

Article IV. There exists a separate administrative branch composed of persons whose right to govern is based on two principles: (1), the delegations of power flowing from Congress; and (2), the authority inherent in professional training and promotion through an administrative hierarchy. Congress and the courts may provide for administrative procedures and have the power to review agencies for their observance of these procedures; but in no instance should Congress or the courts attempt to displace the judgment of the administrators with their own.

Article V. The Judicial branch is responsible for two functions: (1), to preserve the procedural rights of citizens before all federal courts, state and local courts, and administrative agencies; and (2), to apply the Fourteenth Amendment of the 1787 Constitution as a natural-law defense of all substantive and procedural rights. The appellate courts shall exercise vigorous judicial review of all state and local government and court decisions, but in no instance shall the courts review the constitutionality of Congress’s grants of authority to the president or to the federal administrative agencies.

Article VI. The public interest shall be defined by the satisfaction of the voters in their constituencies. The test of public interest is reelection.

Article VII. The public interest to the contrary notwithstanding, actual policy making will not come from voter preferences or congressional enactments but form a process of tripartite bargaining between specialized administrators, relevant members of Congress, and the representatives of self-selected organized interests. Principalities And Powers: Goodbye Liberalism: Hello Socialism



You have so very much to learn......don't you, reggie.

Ah the Constitution is back, seems all intact and shippy shape. And all this time we thought it was gone, and the dastardly villan that killed it was Jefferson, if not Jefferson, then Jackson, if not Jackson then and on down the line. The real quest is to find a president that didn't kill the Constituton. I vote for William Henry Harrison.

Yes, that great man that allowed private corporations to be considered individuals.. Something the Founding Fathers were against..

 

[Moonglow]

The ACA is no different than requiring a driver to have auto insurance, unless you are rich enough to afford the liability and are not required to have insurance. Both pieces of legislation are corporate lobby gains.

 

[Moonglow]

What's even funnier is that those decrying communism and socialism believe in a God that runs Heaven like a socialist/communist camp. But that's seems to be Ok with them..?

 

[Unkotare]

The ACA is no different than requiring a driver to have auto insurance.

Only if it were the case that by not having a car you would not exist.

 

[Unkotare]

What's even funnier is that those decrying communism and socialism believe in a God that runs Heaven like a socialist/communist camp. But that's seems to be Ok with them..?

Wow, that was remarkably stupid even by your standards.

 

[Moonglow]

The Constitution was worthless to the cause of freedom when it allowed slavery to exist as a compromise to include slave holding states..

 

[Moonglow]

What's even funnier is that those decrying communism and socialism believe in a God that runs Heaven like a socialist/communist camp. But that's seems to be Ok with them..?

Wow, that was remarkably stupid even by your standards.

still violating the TOS I see.

 

[Moonglow]

The ACA is no different than requiring a driver to have auto insurance.

Only if it were the case that by not having a car you would not exist.

If you don't have a car, then you can't exist in many places on the Earth.

 

[Unkotare]

The Constitution was worthless to the cause of freedom when it allowed slavery to exist as a compromise to include slave holding states..

No it wasn't. Why not give the childish hyperbole a rest for a second and act like a big boy?

 

[Moonglow]

I'm still wondering why Eisenhower was a commie and Nixon also...

 

[Unkotare]

The ACA is no different than requiring a driver to have auto insurance.

Only if it were the case that by not having a car you would not exist.

If you don't have a car, then you can't exist in many places on the Earth.

Is there a reason why you're trolling this thread?

 

[SmedlyButler]

I think you missed the part where you refuted anything she had to say. Maybe you just forgot to get around to that?

I think you missed the part where I mentioned "alternate reality". One has no obligation to refute an imaginary construct.

I thought you said it was all copy and paste? Now it's all "imagination"? Copying and pasting imagination? Which is it?

This is just too simple to be beyond comprehension, even for the most loyal PC fan. I'll say it again, slowly....

She uses copy and paste to "construct" her alternate realities. Other peoples words and conspiracy theories are her building blocks. And if in context other peoples words do not support her construct the solution is simple, use them out of context. When she says "I will construct..." (one of her favorite phrases) the result is ievitably another edition of imaginary history.

If the concept is still too difficult for you relate it to the various 9/11 conspiracies. You must be aware of how the 9/11 "truthers" abuse rational interpretation of facts quotes and coincidences to build their disparate frameworks. Same MO, same result. Imagined history.