Hamas Leader Killed

[Sherlock Holmes]

Um. Because it was "mentioned" in a legal document which determined the Mandates for the territories previously under the Ottoman Empire.

Um. well "mentioned" could refer to something verbally discussed during a meeting or text that appears in some kind of legally binding document - he didn't say which, hence I asked.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I mean, sure. I think this is a much higher standard to reach than the standard I gave you, but if you want to use this one, I have no opposition.

This discussion can serve no useful purpose, convincing you of X or Y (that is to say getting you to admit the truth of X or Y) on the strength of interpretations you reject will achieve nothing. On matters of interpretation outside of a court of law amount to simply opinions and as we know you and I have different opinions.

 

[Shusha]

This discussion can serve no useful purpose, convincing you of X or Y (that is to say getting you to admit the truth of X or Y) on the strength of interpretations you reject will achieve nothing. On matters of interpretation outside of a court of law amount to simply opinions and as we know you and I have different opinions.

The discussion serves an extremely useful purpose: to illuminate the lies and libels spread about Israel. You have not been able to present a single example of "apartheid", and yet you will continue to use that language to describe Israel. It is proof that your demonizations of Israel are based in something other than factual reality.

 

[Shusha]

Also if you want an truthful example of apartheid in Israel, I can give you one. Not that I should be doing your work for you.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You and Epstein…
View attachment 1031405

You poor girl.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The discussion serves an extremely useful purpose: to illuminate the lies and libels spread about Israel.

In a sense I agree. It does reveal your reliance on pedantry and prejudicial personal interpretations disguised as scholarship, something I regularly expose here.

You have not been able to present a single example of "apartheid", and yet you will continue to use that language to describe Israel.

I have, several times and will do so again below. You refuse to accept these though and so that's that, I don't seek to convince you of anything, your agreement or disagreement means absolutely nothing to me, you serve one purpose for me, a source of Zionist apologisms that exemplify the lengths some are prepared to go to to defend the criminal state of Israel.

It is proof that your demonization's of Israel are based in something other than factual reality.

That might have a degree of credibility if there were no examples of analysts and experts saying the opposite.

So enjoy - of course you'll reject and of course you'll resort to pedantry and minutiae to imply this or that isn't "really" true and so on, let the reader decide for themselves, I must point out though that you are the same person who denies genocide, who supports punitive home demolitions, who insists Palestinian Israeli citizens are treated equitably to Jewish Israeli citizens, canards that I and others have demolished on this forum over the past year.

So without further ado I present not as single example of apartheid but eleven for you to study.

These are all well known organizations with a huge international experience of world affairs and conflict.

Israel's Apartheid Against Palestinians Amnesty International

Does Israel’s Treatment of Palestinians Rise to the Level of Apartheid? Human Rights Watch

This is Apartheid B'Tselem

A Threshold Crossed Human Rights Watch

Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territory is ‘apartheid’: UN rights expert United Nations News

Israel is an apartheid state, Amnesty International says National Public Radio

Israeli apartheid factsheet War On Want

Human Rights Groups Agree: Israel Is Practicing Apartheid Institute For Policy Studies

ICJ denounces Israel’s system of apartheid against Palestinians International Commission of Jurists

Yes, Israel Is Obviously an Apartheid State. The Nation

Israel’s Apartheid Doesn’t Make a Difference Council On Foreign Relations

In closing, can you explain why a visitor to this page should reject each of these informed publications and simply accept your word?

 

[gipper]

In a sense I agree. It does reveal your reliance on pedantry and prejudicial personal interpretations disguised as scholarship, something I regularly expose here.

I have, several times and will do so again below. You refuse to accept these though and so that's that, I don't seek to convince you of anything, your agreement or disagreement means absolutely nothing to me, you serve one purpose for me, a source of Zionist apologisms that exemplify the lengths some are prepared to go to to defend the criminal state of Israel.

That might have a degree of credibility if there were no examples of analysts and experts saying the opposite.

So enjoy - of course you'll reject and of course you'll resort to pedantry and minutiae to imply this or that isn't "really" true and so on, let the reader decide for themselves, I must point out though that you are the same person who denies genocide, who supports punitive home demolitions, who insists Palestinian Israeli citizens are treated equitably to Jewish Israeli citizens, canards that I and others have demolished on this forum over the past year.

So without further ado I present not as single example of apartheid but eleven for you to study.

These are all well known organizations with a huge international experience of world affairs and conflict.

Israel's Apartheid Against Palestinians Amnesty International

Does Israel’s Treatment of Palestinians Rise to the Level of Apartheid? Human Rights Watch

This is Apartheid B'Tselem

A Threshold Crossed Human Rights Watch

Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territory is ‘apartheid’: UN rights expert United Nations News

Israel is an apartheid state, Amnesty International says National Public Radio

Israeli apartheid factsheet War On Want

Human Rights Groups Agree: Israel Is Practicing Apartheid Institute For Policy Studies

ICJ denounces Israel’s system of apartheid against Palestinians International Commission of Jurists

Yes, Israel Is Obviously an Apartheid State. The Nation

Israel’s Apartheid Doesn’t Make a Difference Council On Foreign Relations

In closing, can you explain why a visitor to this page should reject each of these informed publications and simply accept your word?

No amount of proof moved these Zionist fools.

 

[Shusha]

Israel's Apartheid Against Palestinians Amnesty International

Does Israel’s Treatment of Palestinians Rise to the Level of Apartheid? Human Rights Watch

This is Apartheid B'Tselem

A Threshold Crossed Human Rights Watch

Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territory is ‘apartheid’: UN rights expert United Nations News

Israel is an apartheid state, Amnesty International says National Public Radio

Israeli apartheid factsheet War On Want

Human Rights Groups Agree: Israel Is Practicing Apartheid Institute For Policy Studies

ICJ denounces Israel’s system of apartheid against Palestinians International Commission of Jurists

Yes, Israel Is Obviously an Apartheid State. The Nation

Israel’s Apartheid Doesn’t Make a Difference Council On Foreign Relations

I skimmed a couple of these. They are opinion pieces and do the same thing as you do: claim apartheid within Israel "proper" but fail to follow up with specifics. The only specifics they do provide are examples in the "West Bank" and Gaza, which are all citizenship issues and not racial (ethnic) domination.

Some examples:
Citizens of Palestine not being able to vote in Israeli elections. Not apartheid.
Citizens of Palestine having to pass through border control to enter Israel. Not apartheid.

Find an example of institutionalized racial (ethnic) domination within Israel. Just one.

 

[Shusha]

No amount of proof moved these Zionist fools.

None of the above are proof. Care to give it a go? Find an example of institutionalized racial (ethnic) domination in Israel.

 

[gipper]

None of the above are proof. Care to give it a go? Find an example of institutionalized racial (ethnic) domination in Israel.

No, I don’t. Anyone who refuses to accept reality, is a dumb MFer.

 

[Shusha]

In a sense I agree. It does reveal your reliance on pedantry and prejudicial personal interpretations disguised as scholarship, something I regularly expose here.

I have, several times and will do so again below. You refuse to accept these though and so that's that, I don't seek to convince you of anything, your agreement or disagreement means absolutely nothing to me, you serve one purpose for me, a source of Zionist apologisms that exemplify the lengths some are prepared to go to to defend the criminal state of Israel.

That might have a degree of credibility if there were no examples of analysts and experts saying the opposite.

So enjoy - of course you'll reject and of course you'll resort to pedantry and minutiae to imply this or that isn't "really" true and so on, let the reader decide for themselves, I must point out though that you are the same person who denies genocide, who supports punitive home demolitions, who insists Palestinian Israeli citizens are treated equitably to Jewish Israeli citizens,

For clarity:

Correct. The war in Gaza does not meet the definitional threshold for genocide.
No, I do not support punitive home demolitions.
Yes, there is discrimination in Israel, of the unfortunate but common sort found in all nations, but there is no legal, institutionalized framework for unequal treatment of all of Israel's citizens.

 

[gipper]

None of the above are proof. Care to give it a go? Find an example of institutionalized racial (ethnic) domination in Israel.

Maybe you could answer a question I’ve asked repeatedly of you genocide supporters.

If Israel kills all the Palestinians, do you still support it?

 

[Shusha]

Maybe you could answer a question I’ve asked repeatedly of you genocide supporters.

If Israel kills all the Palestinians, do you still support it?

I have already answered that question specifically some months ago. But I will answer again.

I do not support genocide. You deliberately mischaracterize my position. The war in Gaza does not meet the definitional threshold for genocide. It is not that I support genocide, it is that I do not believe the facts support the condition of genocide occurring in Gaza.

I do not support the killing of anyone except in self-defense. At the moment, I have every reason to believe that Israel is defending itself (and I'd be happy to outline those reasons, should you ask). I have no reason to believe Israel intends to exterminate the Palestinians, nor the Gazans, as a collective. If that changes, I will revise my opinion accordingly.

Edited to add: IF you believe I should revise my opinion, the way to convince me would be to provide factual evidence that I am currently unaware of.

 

[gipper]

I have already answered that question specifically some months ago. But I will answer again.

I do not support genocide. You deliberately mischaracterize my position. The war in Gaza does not meet the definitional threshold for genocide. It is not that I support genocide, it is that I do not believe the facts support the condition of genocide occurring in Gaza.

I do not support the killing of anyone except in self-defense. At the moment, I have every reason to believe that Israel is defending itself (and I'd be happy to outline those reasons, should you ask). I have no reason to believe Israel intends to extermination the Palestinians, nor the Gazans, as a collective. If that changes, I will revise my opinion accordingly.

Edited to add: IF you believe I should revise my opinion, the way to convince me would be to provide factual evidence that I am currently unaware of.

You’re uninformed. Thousands of innocent Palestinian women and children have been murdered and maimed. Do you not know this? How is this defense?

 

[gipper]

I have already answered that question specifically some months ago. But I will answer again.

I do not support genocide. You deliberately mischaracterize my position. The war in Gaza does not meet the definitional threshold for genocide. It is not that I support genocide, it is that I do not believe the facts support the condition of genocide occurring in Gaza.

I do not support the killing of anyone except in self-defense. At the moment, I have every reason to believe that Israel is defending itself (and I'd be happy to outline those reasons, should you ask). I have no reason to believe Israel intends to extermination the Palestinians, nor the Gazans, as a collective. If that changes, I will revise my opinion accordingly.

Edited to add: IF you believe I should revise my opinion, the way to convince me would be to provide factual evidence that I am currently unaware of.

You didn’t answer my question. Why?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

You didn’t answer my question. Why?

It was a very simple question too; perhaps she did indirectly answer - by refusing to say anything we can all infer her answer as Yes.

 

[Shusha]

You’re uninformed. Thousands of innocent Palestinian women and children have been murdered and maimed. Do you not know this? How is this defense?

You can accuse me of many things, but being uninformed is not one that would make any sense.

Yes, thousands of non-combatants have been tragically killed in this war. It happens in every war. Let me ask you, are all wars genocides? Or are some wars simply wars where non-combatants get killed as incidental harm?

 

[Shusha]

You didn’t answer my question. Why?

I did answer your question. If I had any reason to believe Israel was intentionally exterminating Palestinians or Gazans, I would revise my position. That would happen LONG before all Palestinians or Gazans were dead.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I did answer your question. If I had any reason to believe Israel was intentionally exterminating Palestinians or Gazans, I would revise my position. That would happen LONG before all Palestinians or Gazans were dead.

You DID NOT ANSWER: If Israel kills all the Palestinians, do you still support it?

Yes or No?

 

[Shusha]

You DID NOT ANSWER: If Israel kills all the Palestinians, do you still support it?

Yes or No?

I do not support the killing of all Palestinians. That would be genocide. Which I have already very clearly said I do not support.