Haley: Raise the Retirement Age

[WorldWatcher]

Not true. It has dropped the past two years due to COVID-19.

How much more should the top-earning workers pay? They already pay the vast majority of Federal Income Taxes.

Please share with us specifically where each dollar paid by corporations originates.

Could you now show all tax percentages as a function of income please the same way please?

That would include sales, SS tax, Medicare, fuel taxes, utility taxes, property, and real estate. Including real estate taxes which a renter pays as part of their lease.

There are more taxes to support government than just income you know.

WW

Why do you believe that half the workers in our country should pay nothing to support our great nation? How is that good for our country?

You may have missed the request, which is understandable.

You posted a breakdown of Federal INCOME Tax as a percentage of funding by income ranges.

Could you respond the request for similar data showing how much of a tax burden (by percentage) based on taxes paid (which includes much more than just income) as a percentage of income.

I think it would be a better picture of total tax liability and funding if all taxes are included such as: "sales, SS tax, Medicare, fuel taxes, utility taxes, property, and real estate. Including real estate taxes which a renter pays as part of their lease".

So to say that poor people do not pay, as you put it, " pay nothing to support our great nation" might be misleading when only looking at 1 aspect. I'm sure such an error was purely unintentional as we all strive to get a true big picture.

Appreciate the help.

WW

 

[gipper]

I never said billionaires should pay nothing. If they had no taxable income for a year, on what would they, or you or me, pay federal income tax?

You've veered off into the weeds. If you want a discussion, great. If you're just trying to whine and insult, bu bye.

Bye!

 

[WorldWatcher]

They just raised the damn age for full SS.

Yup, the last age increase isn't even fully implemented yet. (Meaning all those impacted who were originally 65 have even reached 67.)

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

The best thing to do is base the benefits off of calendar quarters paid into SSI.

Currently 40 calendar quarters is enough for full benefits. (10 years)
Raising it to 80 calendar quarters (or more) would be much better and your blue collared workers would be able to retire at a reasonable age. We could even make it more for white collar workers.
This would definitely have an effect on those who have been incarcerated for long prison sentences.

Social Security Benefit Amounts

Cost of Living Adjustment

www.ssa.gov

This isn't technically correct. You need 40 credits (quarters) to qualify for any Social Security benefit. However the amount of the benefit is calculated using a weighted index of 35 years of montly earnings.

The qualifying quarters to receive benefits are different than the calculation for benefit amount.

Just FYI...

WW

 

[Markle]

Could you respond the request for similar data showing how much of a tax burden (by percentage) based on taxes paid (which includes much more than just income) as a percentage of income.

The subject is Federal Income Taxes. If you want a thread on whatever you are describing, feel free. I'll be glad to participate.

I think it would be a better picture of total tax liability and funding if all taxes are included such as: "sales, SS tax, Medicare, fuel taxes, utility taxes, property, and real estate. Including real estate taxes which a renter pays as part of their lease".

Once again, the topic is Federal Income Taxes. What you're asking is for 50 different comparisons. Be my guest. NONE of those other taxes you list go toward supporting our country.

So to say that poor people do not pay, as you put it, " pay nothing to support our great nation" might be misleading when only looking at 1 aspect. I'm sure such an error was purely unintentional as we all strive to get a true big picture.

Nothing misleading except for you inferring that fifty percent of our workers are "poor". When Federal Income Taxes began and for many decades low income workers contributed to the Federal Budget.

How much more should our top earners pay? The top 1% earn 21% of our income and pay 40% of our Federal Income Taxes.

Does the quote below not precisely describe where we are today? Are we not precariously close to the tipping point?

 

[Blues Man]

Work your whole life and pay into a system you were FORCED to pay in to, only to enjoy yourself for a couple years.
What a load of bullshit.

Social Security is designed to keep you financially insecure.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The subject is Federal Income Taxes. If you want a thread on whatever you are describing, feel free. I'll be glad to participate.


Once again, the topic is Federal Income Taxes. What you're asking is for 50 different comparisons. Be my guest. NONE of those other taxes you list go toward supporting our country.


Nothing misleading except for you inferring that fifty percent of our workers are "poor". When Federal Income Taxes began and for many decades low income workers contributed to the Federal Budget.

How much more should our top earners pay? The top 1% earn 21% of our income and pay 40% of our Federal Income Taxes.

Does the quote below not precisely describe where we are today? Are we not precariously close to the tipping point?

#1: If they were not "poor" they'd have had enough income to pay Federal Income Taxes (general speaking).

#2: Why don't you address the question. The topic of my question to gain a better understanding of the totality of the issue is "What is the percentage of all taxes paid based on various income levels?". You seem to want to focus on only ONE tax and not total tax burden as a percentage of income. Why is that?

WW

 

[Frankenstein]

I'll save these programs. Give me back all of MY money paid in plus interest and I'll opt out, deal?

Been saying exactly that they take it raise the age continually so we don't get it back. But then they get bennies for life, what do they care.

 

[BluesLegend]

Been saying exactly that they take it raise the age continually so we don't get it back. But then they get bennies for life, what do they care.

These idiots in Washington stole $2 trillion of our SS money and spent it on other stupid shit. Now they don't have the money to pay us back. They have mismanaged the SS contributions for decades. They siphon off a whopping almost 16% for FICA for this shit plan, and now are scheming to fuck everyone out of the benefits we were forced to purchase. That's why these dumb asses in Washington should not be in charge of anything involving money.

In a further display of stupidity, dumb ass Biden has proposed stealing half a billion from Medicare for his pet climate change projects. That's why we should say HELL NO to any increase in FICA taxes. These dumb fuckers will rob us blind again mark my words.

 

[Markle]

#1: If they were not "poor" they'd have had enough income to pay Federal Income Taxes (general speaking).

#2: Why don't you address the question. The topic of my question to gain a better understanding of the totality of the issue is "What is the percentage of all taxes paid based on various income levels?". You seem to want to focus on only ONE tax and not total tax burden as a percentage of income. Why is that?

WW

The subject is Federal Income Taxes. If you want a thread on whatever you are describing, feel free. I'll be glad to participate.

 

[leftwinger]

You want the poor to pay income taxes. What about the ultra wealthy?

Is this okay in your book?

In 2007, Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes. He achieved the feat again in 2011. In 2018, Tesla founder Elon Musk, the second-richest person in the world, also paid no federal income taxes.

Michael Bloomberg managed to do the same in recent years. Billionaire investor Carl Icahn did it twice. George Soros paid no federal income tax three years in a row.
The Secret IRS Files: Trove of Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax

Well they pay 1/2 * SS and Medical (at least half) for millions of employees. They provide jobs sharing revenue to employees.
They pay property taxes, fees, inspection costs etc. probably a lot more we don't know? They improve land and communities with buildings?

I would doubt they get enough TAX incentives (from Politicians) to end up ZERO TAX overall?

 

[leftwinger]

Very Rich don't really "WORK" per say so they don't have Taxable Income in from of W2 wages. simple.

They may pay Capital gains or other taxes? But I doubt they end up net Zero as often inferred.

Be careful, to install a blanket tax on perceived "NET WORTH" is very complicated.
They already paid tax once on the Wealth they have now accumulated?

 

[WorldWatcher]

The subject is Federal Income Taxes. If you want a thread on whatever you are describing, feel free. I'll be glad to participate.

Dude (or Dudette) scroll up to the top of the page. The subject of this thread is Nikki Haley proposing cutting Social Security benefits by raising the retirement age. How do I know this? Because I'm the OP and I wrote.

You come in here with you little pet peeve about who pays the most in Federal Income Taxes with your little chart saying that the poor (and low wage earners) don't support the government because they pay no taxes. Which is provably false and have refused (multiple times) to show how, as a percentage of income and by income ranges, what tax burden poor (and low wage earners) shoulder as a percentage of their income.

There is A LOT more to paying taxes than just Federal Income Tax.

If YOU want a thread on poor (and low wage earners) not paying any taxes YOU should start a thread and let that be the subject of the thread. Respectfully, stop trying to hijack mine on a completely different subject.

BTW - If you start your own thread, send me a PM so I see it and I'll probably participate.

WW

 

[Markle]

Dude (or Dudette) scroll up to the top of the page. The subject of this thread is Nikki Haley proposing cutting Social Security benefits by raising the retirement age. How do I know this? Because I'm the OP and I wrote.

You come in here with you little pet peeve about who pays the most in Federal Income Taxes with your little chart saying that the poor (and low wage earners) don't support the government because they pay no taxes. Which is provably false and have refused (multiple times) to show how, as a percentage of income and by income ranges, what tax burden poor (and low wage earners) shoulder as a percentage of their income.

There is A LOT more to paying taxes than just Federal Income Tax.

If YOU want a thread on poor (and low wage earners) not paying any taxes YOU should start a thread and let that be the subject of the thread. Respectfully, stop trying to hijack mine on a completely different subject.

BTW - If you start your own thread, send me a PM so I see it and I'll probably participate.

WW

You're right, I'm wrong. I confused threads. Carry on.

 

[Couchpotato]

Work your whole life and pay into a system you were FORCED to pay in to, only to enjoy yourself for a couple years.
What a load of bullshit.

That was what SS was originally. It's only relatively recently that people collect SS for decades.

 

[WorldWatcher]

You're right, I'm wrong. I confused threads. Carry on.

Wow.

Thank you.

Snark withdrawn.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

That was what SS was originally. It's only relatively recently that people collect SS for decades.

Not quite true.

In 1940 the average length of benefit collection was 13 years. Recently the average length of benefit collection has hovered around 17 years.

An increase in about 50 years of only 4 years.

(And that doesn't account for the change that has been impacting SS where the retirement age was raised from 65 to 67. So those retiring now actually have to work two years longer before reaching full retirement age.)

WW

 

[Couchpotato]

Not quite true.

In 1940 the average length of benefit collection was 13 years. Recently the average length of benefit collection has hovered around 17 years.

An increase in about 50 years of only 4 years.

(And that doesn't account for the change that has been impacting SS where the retirement age was raised from 65 to 67. So those retiring now actually have to work two years longer before reaching full retirement age.)

WW

The average life expectancy for men and women was 62 in 1940. I kind of doubt the average number of years collecting SS was 13 given those facts. The current life expectancy is about 79, that's an increase of 17 years. That math doesnt add up.

 

[Couchpotato]

But this is really the problem with SS.

Social Security History

The number on the far right keeps getting smaller and smaller.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The average life expectancy for men and women was 62 in 1940. I kind of doubt the average number of years collecting SS was 13 given those facts. The current life expectancy is about 79, that's an increase of 17 years. That math doesnt add up.

Social Security History

www.ssa.gov

You aren't using a good metric. You base assumption on Average Life Expectancy (ALE). Now according to ALE we are living decades longer, but why?

The answer is that one of the major factors lowering ALE a century ago were high infant and children mortality rates. Infants and children werer dying young, which lowered the over all ALE. As mortality rates plummeted, ALE rose. However infants and children don't pay into social security. So their lives impacted ALE, but they didn't pay into SS.

The better metric is average months of receiving benefits. You can see from the table above the average in 1940 was about 13 years, the average in 1990 was about 17 years. A difference of only 4 years.

Averages haven't changed a lot since 1990 and in the early 80's the Full Retirement Age was changed (incrementally) to 67 which further muddies the waters because it it is delaying benefits for those retiring now. Meaning 2 LESS years of benefit payments before death for those retiring now.

WW