Democrats Are Once Again Sabotaging Desperately Needed Social Security Reform

[WorldWatcher]

To answer those questions we'd need an idea of wealth distribution by house hold.

We don't tax wealth, we tax income.

You need to use income distribution.

So who do you think pays more in taxes as a percentage of income the poor and middle class or the top 10%?

The bottom 50% pay basically 0% federal income tax.
The top 10% pay about 70% of federal income taxes.

You limit to Federal Income Taxes only.

Which wasn't my premise/question.

It was, by income level, who has a higher Total Tax Burden, looking at all taxes.

• Federal Income Taxes
• State Income Taxes
• Property Taxes (both as a property owner and paying pass-through property taxes as a renter)
• Personal Property Taxes
• Sales Tax
• Excise Taxes
• School Taxes
• Embedded Taxes (embedded taxes are things included in the cost of an item that the consumer doesn't really see - for example 18.4 cents per gallon of gas as a Federal Tax and - in VA - 30.8 cents per gallon for a total of 49.2 cents per gallon.)

WW

 

[Frankenstein]

Of course it is, and the RICH should pay an equal or higher ETR than the poor, (the R stands for Rate) but currently many don't because they abuse the system.

Just like when you grocery shop, you don't get nor expect a 'lower tax rate' because you are spending more at the grocery store.
You buy more, you pay more in tax. (But the same Rate)

The abuse is based on loopholes that politicians, especially democrat politician, put in for rich donors. Why didn't Biden raise taxes on the Rich, it was one of the things he ran on, the rich paying their fair share, they run on it every two years, and do nothing, because rich donors would dry up funding

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And Musk has enough money, he doesn't need Gov. Funds, and much as you think he does.
Musk could still do this on his own, he's just using US to pay for it.

I agree, the US government needs launch services more than SpaceX needs government contracts for launch services.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Of course it is, and the RICH should pay an equal or higher ETR than the poor, (the R stands for Rate) but currently many don't because they abuse the system.

Just like when you grocery shop, you don't get nor expect a 'lower tax rate' because you are spending more at the grocery store.
You buy more, you pay more in tax. (But the same Rate)

and the RICH should pay an equal or higher ETR than the poor

They do pay a higher rate. Much higher.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You limit to Federal Income Taxes only.

Which wasn't my premise/question.

It was, by income level, who has a higher Total Tax Burden, looking at all taxes.

• Federal Income Taxes
• State Income Taxes
• Property Taxes (both as a property owner and paying pass-through property taxes as a renter)
• Personal Property Taxes
• Sales Tax
• Excise Taxes
• School Taxes
• Embedded Taxes (embedded taxes are things included in the cost of an item that the consumer doesn't really see - for example 18.4 cents per gallon of gas as a Federal Tax and - in VA - 30.8 cents per gallon for a total of 49.2 cents per gallon.)

WW

You limit to Federal Income Taxes only.

Of course I do, because someone claimed they don't pay their fair share.

Is it unfair that the rich pay a sales tax at the same rate as you? LOL!

 

[WorldWatcher]

You limit to Federal Income Taxes only.

Of course I do, because someone claimed they don't pay their fair share.

Is it unfair that the rich pay a sales tax at the same rate as you? LOL!

Are you missing the point? Accidently on Purpose.

It's not "same rate", it was questioning Total Tax Burden based on income level.

Poor and Middle Class pay taxes at higher rates then the uber rich.

Trump had years of tax returns at $750. Jeff Bezo's "salary" is about $80,000.

WW

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are you missing the point? Accidently on Purpose.

It's not "same rate", it was questioning Total Tax Burden based on income level.

Poor and Middle Class pay taxes at higher rates then the uber rich.

Trump had years of tax returns at $750. Jeff Bezo's "salary" is about $80,000.

WW

Poor and Middle Class pay taxes at higher rates then the uber rich.

You're looking at it the wrong way. As you said above "income level".

What rates do the poor and middle class pay on their income?

What rates do the rich pay on their income?

Jeff Bezo's "salary" is about $80,000.

What rate should Bezos pay on $80,000?

 

[WorldWatcher]

Poor and Middle Class pay taxes at higher rates then the uber rich.

You're looking at it the wrong way. As you said above "income level".

What rates do the poor and middle class pay on their income?

What rates do the rich pay on their income?

Jeff Bezo's "salary" is about $80,000.

What rate should Bezos pay on $80,000?

Are you missing the point? Accidently on Purpose.

It's not "same rate", it was questioning Total Tax Burden based on income level.

Poor and Middle Class pay taxes at higher rates (added: as a percentage of income) then the uber rich.

Why ignore the totality of:

• Federal Income Taxes
• State Income Taxes
• Property Taxes (both as a property owner and paying pass-through property taxes as a renter)
• Personal Property Taxes
• Sales Tax
• Excise Taxes
• School Taxes
• Embedded Taxes (embedded taxes are things included in the cost of an item that the consumer doesn't really see - for example 18.4 cents per gallon of gas as a Federal Tax and - in VA - 30.8 cents per gallon for a total of 49.2 cents per gallon.)

I get though why there is a need to not look at Total Tax Burden, but to focus on only Federal Income Taxes.

Oh - I probably should add "import tariffs" to the list as those are taxes that the American people pay.

WW

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are you missing the point? Accidently on Purpose.

It's not "same rate", it was questioning Total Tax Burden based on income level.

Poor and Middle Class pay taxes at higher rates (added: as a percentage of income) then the uber rich.

Why ignore the totality of:

• Federal Income Taxes
• State Income Taxes
• Property Taxes (both as a property owner and paying pass-through property taxes as a renter)
• Personal Property Taxes
• Sales Tax
• Excise Taxes
• School Taxes
• Embedded Taxes (embedded taxes are things included in the cost of an item that the consumer doesn't really see - for example 18.4 cents per gallon of gas as a Federal Tax and - in VA - 30.8 cents per gallon for a total of 49.2 cents per gallon.)

I get though why there is a need to not look at Total Tax Burden, but to focus on only Federal Income Taxes.


WW

Poor and Middle Class pay taxes at higher rates (added: as a percentage of income)

Which state charges a higher income tax rate on the poor than on the rich?
Or property tax, sales tax, excise tax, school tax etc.?

 

[WorldWatcher]

Poor and Middle Class pay taxes at higher rates (added: as a percentage of income)

Which state charges a higher income tax rate on the poor than on the rich?
Or property tax, sales tax, excise tax, school tax etc.?

Again it's not "rate" - I know that's your bullet point.

It's "Total Tax Burden as a percentage of income". Poor and middle class spend, as a percentage of income than to the rich.

WW

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Again it's not "rate" - I know that's your bullet point.

It's "Total Tax Burden as a percentage of income". Poor and middle class spend, as a percentage of income than to the rich.

WW

States don't charge sales tax on a person's income.
The rich guy buying groceries and paying a 9% sales tax is not paying a lower sales
tax rate on his groceries than the poor guy buying groceries and paying a 9% sales tax.

The rich guy in Illinois paying 4.95% on his income is not paying a lower tax rate
than the poor guy in Illinois paying 4.95% on his income.

The rich guy paying 20% on his long-term capital gains is not paying a lower tax rate than
the poor guy paying 0% or the middle-class guy 15% paying on his long-term capital gains.

 

[WorldWatcher]

States don't charge sales tax on a person's income.

Never said they did.

The rich guy buying groceries and paying a 9% sales tax is not paying a lower sales

Never said they did.

tax rate on his groceries than the poor guy buying groceries and paying a 9% sales tax.

Never said they did.

The rich guy in Illinois paying 4.95% on his income is not paying a lower tax rate
than the poor guy in Illinois paying 4.95% on his income.

Never said they did.

The rich guy paying 20% on his long-term capital gains is not paying a lower tax rate than
the poor guy paying 0% or the middle-class guy 15% paying on his long-term capital gains.

Never said they did.
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Again it's not "rate" - I know that's your bullet point.

It's "Total Tax Burden as a percentage of income". Poor and middle class spend, as a percentage of income than to the rich.

WW

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Never said they did.



Never said they did.



Never said they did.



Never said they did.



Never said they did.
.
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Again it's not "rate" - I know that's your bullet point.

It's "Total Tax Burden as a percentage of income". Poor and middle class spend, as a percentage of income than to the rich.

WW

If there are 2 guys who make exactly the same income, with exactly the same deductions, dependents, mortgage payment, etc.etc., and one guy puts $5000 in a Roth IRA and the other guy spends $5000 on cigarettes ($1 federal excise tax, $2.98 Illinois excise tax, $1.18 Chicago excise tax, $3 Cook County excise tax and 6.25% Illinois sales tax), the smoker has a much higher "total tax burden".

Is that unfair?

 

[WorldWatcher]

If there are 2 guys who make exactly the same income, with exactly the same deductions, dependents, mortgage payment, etc.etc., and one guy puts $5000 in a Roth IRA and the other guy spends $5000 on cigarettes ($1 federal excise tax, $2.98 Illinois excise tax, $1.18 Chicago excise tax, $3 Cook County excise tax and 6.25% Illinois sales tax), the smoker has a much higher "total tax burden".

Is that unfair?

We’re not talking about people making exactly the same.

We are talking about Total Tax Burden (all taxes) as a percentage of income.

Poor and middle class pay higher percentages of their income paying all the carrots taxes than the very wealthy.

WW

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We are talking about Total Tax Burden (all taxes) as a percentage of income.

The smoker has a much higher "total tax burden".

Is that unfair?

 

[WorldWatcher]

The smoker has a much higher "total tax burden".

Is that unfair?

Why do you keep changing the context.

Total tax burden as a percentage of income.

Never mind I know why.

WW

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why do you keep changing the context.

Total tax burden as a percentage of income.

Never mind I know why.

WW

If there are 2 guys who make exactly the same income, with exactly the same deductions, dependents, mortgage payment, etc.etc., and one guy puts $5000 in a Roth IRA and the other guy spends $5000 on cigarettes ($1 federal excise tax, $2.98 Illinois excise tax, $1.18 Chicago excise tax, $3 Cook County excise tax and 6.25% Illinois sales tax), the smoker has a much higher "total tax burden" as a percentage of income.

Is that unfair?

 

[WorldWatcher]

If there are 2 guys who make exactly the same income, with exactly the same deductions, dependents, mortgage payment, etc.etc., and one guy puts $5000 in a Roth IRA and the other guy spends $5000 on cigarettes ($1 federal excise tax, $2.98 Illinois excise tax, $1.18 Chicago excise tax, $3 Cook County excise tax and 6.25% Illinois sales tax), the smoker has a much higher "total tax burden" as a percentage of income.

Is that unfair?

Why do you keep changing the context.

Total tax burden as a percentage of income.

Never mind I know why.

WW

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why do you keep changing the context.

Total tax burden as a percentage of income.

Never mind I know why.

WW

Total tax burden as a percentage of income.

Right. The guy who bought $5000 worth of cigarettes has a higher total tax burden as a percentage of income than the guy who put the $5000 in a Roth.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Total tax burden as a percentage of income.

Right. The guy who bought $5000 worth of cigarettes has a higher total tax burden as a percentage of income than the guy who put the $5000 in a Roth.

Two guys with $5000 dollars.

One pays income tax and puts $5000 in a Roth.

The other uses the the $5000 for the month and pays income tax, sales tax, embedded taxes in the groceries, fuel taxes in the gas for the car to get to work, property tax on the home or property taxes embedded in the land lords rent, etc.

Yep the guy supporting a family paid a higher percentage of income in taxes than the guy who just paid income tax and put it in a Roth.

WW