Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
It's true, people who pay more sales tax pay more sales tax.
It's outrageous!
There ought to be a law!
Democrats Are Once Again Sabotaging Desperately Needed Social Security Reform
- Thread starter mikegriffith1
- Start date
It's true, people who pay more sales tax pay more sales tax.
It's outrageous!
There ought to be a law!
Greenbeard
Gold Member
Sounds like the problem solves itself.
WorldWatcher
Platinum Member
Again you are locking on a single item and looking at rates (in this case sales tax).
However....
Why do you keep changing the context.
Total tax burden as a percentage of income.
Who pays as more as a total percentage of income the poor/middle class or the uber weathly?
To answer that question you have to look at all the taxes and their impact on income including:
- Federal Income Taxes
- State Income Taxes
- Social Security Taxes
- Medicare/Medicaid Taxes
- Property Taxes (both as a property owner and paying pass-through property taxes as a renter)
- Personal Property Taxes
- Sales Tax
- Excise Taxes
- School Taxes
- Embedded Taxes (embedded taxes are things included in the cost of an item that the consumer doesn't really see - for example 18.4 cents per gallon of gas as a Federal Tax and - in VA - 30.8 cents per gallon for a total of 49.2 cents per gallon.)
- And as of this morning we can addd more tariffs to the list with the newest round. Tariffs of course are taxes on imported good paid for by the consumers who purchase the goods.
WW
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Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
Again you are locking on a single item and looking at rates (in this case sales tax).
Sales taxes caused the smoker to have a much higher total tax burden as a percentage of income.
What about the fat guy with the same income as the skinny guy?
The fat guy buys a lot more fast food, pays 6.25% sales tax in Illinois.
He has a higher total tax burden as a percentage of income than the skinny
guy who buys vegetables.
- Federal Income Taxes
- State Income Taxes
- Social Security Taxes
- Medicare/Medicaid Taxes
Don't forget, anyone who saves has a lower total tax burden as a percentage of income than someone with the same income who spends every dollar they earn.
WorldWatcher
Platinum Member
I think we've repeated ourselves enough.
The fact is that poor and middle class people pay a higher percentage of their income as a function of Total Tax Burden.
Not "total taxes", not "tax rates" - Total Tax Burden as a function of percentage of income.
You may have the last word.
WW
AveMarica
Platinum Member
- Aug 16, 2023
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If you raise the retirement age, absent an equal immediate rise in median lifespan, you are cutting benefits.
This isn't the only way. You could raise payroll taxes, means test on assets, tax benefits as normal income, limit spousal benefits for high earners, FICA to include other forms of income, etc. there are so many variables to play with.
WorldWatcher
Platinum Member
So I was thinking...
(It was the gamer in me...)
How do I move "Private Retirement Income" to "Earned Income" that would then NOT be subject to SS benefit reductions. Remember, SS Benefit reductions only happen on "Private Retirement Income", if you are earning a wage - that income is exempt.
#1 Short Term Change in Employment Status
Instead of "retiring" have my boss hire me back as a Temp employee. I could give a Youtube Live / Twitch / Zoom seminar on retirement planning and how to maximize SS benefits. Once a year, and be paid wages (Earned Income) equal to what my pension would have been. (Nobody needs to attend, I just need to spend a couple of hours per year presenting. To an empty room would be fine.)
#2 Lump Sum Rotation
So instead of taking $25,000 to $60,000 per year, which when added to other "Private Retirement Income" means that as a middle class retiree my SS benefits would be reduced by 70, 80, or 100 percent.
Here you take 4 years worth of projected "Private Retirement Income" from your 401K/403B/457. Now that will cut out SS benefits for that year. Put that money into a savings account. In years 2, 3, 4 DON'T withdraw money from your retirement accounts. With no retirement income during those years you can get you SS Benefits back.
You still get benefits 3 of 4 years at full rates, so instead of loosing 100% of SS for 4 years you get 100% for 3 years or an average of 3/4 per year.
#3 Invest Heavily in ROTH IRA's
Now with a Roth IRA you pay taxes on the front end and when you make withdrawals in retirement there is still a 1099 generated, but it is not considered INCOME for tax purposes. Since it's not "income" it wouldn't be counted against SS benefits.
#4 Setup and Become an Employee of an LLC
This would take a long time, because instead of investing in "retirement accounts" - which the OP wants to punish you for - instead you invest and grow that money. Then setup an LLC, become an employee of the LLC, perform some menial function like "consulting" - hey again - provide free Youtube Live / Twitch / Zoom seminar on retirement planning and how to maximize SS benefits. For this you are paid "earnings" from the LLC, since they are "earnings" and not "Private Retirement Income" they wouldn't be subject so SS Benefit reductions. One two hour seminar a quarter and the LLC pays you a wage equal to what your retirement should have been.
WW
(It was the gamer in me...)
How do I move "Private Retirement Income" to "Earned Income" that would then NOT be subject to SS benefit reductions. Remember, SS Benefit reductions only happen on "Private Retirement Income", if you are earning a wage - that income is exempt.
#1 Short Term Change in Employment Status
Instead of "retiring" have my boss hire me back as a Temp employee. I could give a Youtube Live / Twitch / Zoom seminar on retirement planning and how to maximize SS benefits. Once a year, and be paid wages (Earned Income) equal to what my pension would have been. (Nobody needs to attend, I just need to spend a couple of hours per year presenting. To an empty room would be fine.)
#2 Lump Sum Rotation
So instead of taking $25,000 to $60,000 per year, which when added to other "Private Retirement Income" means that as a middle class retiree my SS benefits would be reduced by 70, 80, or 100 percent.
Here you take 4 years worth of projected "Private Retirement Income" from your 401K/403B/457. Now that will cut out SS benefits for that year. Put that money into a savings account. In years 2, 3, 4 DON'T withdraw money from your retirement accounts. With no retirement income during those years you can get you SS Benefits back.
You still get benefits 3 of 4 years at full rates, so instead of loosing 100% of SS for 4 years you get 100% for 3 years or an average of 3/4 per year.
#3 Invest Heavily in ROTH IRA's
Now with a Roth IRA you pay taxes on the front end and when you make withdrawals in retirement there is still a 1099 generated, but it is not considered INCOME for tax purposes. Since it's not "income" it wouldn't be counted against SS benefits.
#4 Setup and Become an Employee of an LLC
This would take a long time, because instead of investing in "retirement accounts" - which the OP wants to punish you for - instead you invest and grow that money. Then setup an LLC, become an employee of the LLC, perform some menial function like "consulting" - hey again - provide free Youtube Live / Twitch / Zoom seminar on retirement planning and how to maximize SS benefits. For this you are paid "earnings" from the LLC, since they are "earnings" and not "Private Retirement Income" they wouldn't be subject so SS Benefit reductions. One two hour seminar a quarter and the LLC pays you a wage equal to what your retirement should have been.
WW
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
The fact is that poor and middle class people pay a higher percentage of their income as a function of Total Tax Burden.
So what?
Admiral Rockwell Tory
Diamond Member
Talk to your state legislators. This is not a federal problem.
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
It's WW whining about it.
Admiral Rockwell Tory
Diamond Member
Looked to me like you were both involved in the pissing contest.
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
Looked to me like you were both involved in the pissing contest.
He was whining, I was pointing out his errors and misplaced anger.
WorldWatcher
Platinum Member
#1 Not angry.
#2 simply pointing out the fact that poor and middle class have a higher tax burden when you look at all taxes paid as a function of total tax burden as a percentage of income.
Correcting your errors it’s not whining or sneer.
WW
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
What were my errors?
Admiral Rockwell Tory
Diamond Member
Yeah, a pissing contest. I need to follow my own advice more. I always say that when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing. Sorry, just being a little hypocritical with that last post!
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
Did you know that your tax burden is higher if you buy
$5000 in cigarettes than if you put $5000 in a Roth IRA?
When did I ever talk about retirees?! You’re acting like a Democrat - arguing against points I never made.
But as far as government workers, taxpayers should not have to pay to give them superior health insurance - and then get stuck with the inferior Obamacare themselves.
Admiral Rockwell Tory
Diamond Member
Of course, to claim otherwise is stupid. Change your behavior and lower your tax burden. That would be my advice.
You do realize that Roth IRA contributions are taxable. Right?
I’m thinking if stocks go down as far as Democrats whine, I’m going to convert some of my traditional into ROTH. I’ll pay taxes on the amount I convert, but everything I recover will be tax-free,
1srelluc
Diamond Member
I pay $760.00 a month for our (two people) insurance.....The average Halfrican Care top-tier plan for two people costs $544 a month.....That can be reduced by up to 50% through subsidies.
So get the fuck out of here about folks paying their own way.
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