Gun Background Checks Pass in Washington




good film, not very realistic historically though

but you are no daisy, no daisy at all


I want to say, "I'll let you catch up" but that would be progress LOL. You sir, just got owned on so many different levels you didn't comprehend I would be embarrassed to show your face ever.


you couldn't own a piece of gum you stupid ****

I got owned because you post a move clip

god you really are the same moron we kicked all over DP


"I got owned because you post a move clip"



good film, not very realistic historically though

but you are no daisy, no daisy at all


I want to say, "I'll let you catch up" but that would be progress LOL. You sir, just got owned on so many different levels you didn't comprehend I would be embarrassed to show your face ever.


you couldn't own a piece of gum you stupid ****

I got owned because you post a move clip

god you really are the same moron we kicked all over DP


You've had 2 hours to watch the movie since your last post. Did you notice that Doc Holliday was a Moderate in the movie? One of the few actually smart gun owners giving him an edge over the chest beating neanderthals? He stood by the law, not by the nihilists.
 
Again, then work to repeal the 2nd amendment. Until then **** OFF.

Yes.....perish the thought that gun owners might discuss this like adults.


Adults did you say, there are no liberal adults--they think another semester makes them adults. Common sense is not on there schedule sooooo they never learned common sense.
 
When a law is passed but includes a way to get around the law or the intent of the law, that's a loophole.
There was no way to get around the law; it is impossible to legally buy a gun from a dealer w/o a background check.
To argue there's a loophole here is to argue from ignorance and/or dishonesty.


Yes there is a way around the law. I've posted it several times but I guess I need to post it again for you.

The federal background law ONLY applies to licensed gun sellers. However there's more than one way to buy a gun. A person can go on line and buy one. A person can buy one from a friend. A person can buy one from a stranger. A person can buy one at a swap meet or fair. A person can buy one at a gun show from anyone who isn't a licensed dealer. As long as it's not through a licensed dealer, no background check is required or done.

This new law in Washington requires a background check from every sale with the exceptions if the sale being within a family or a sale of certain antique guns. Those are the only exceptions in Washington state when this law goes into effect. So whether you're a licensed dealer or not, a background check will be required.

To say there's no loophole in the federal law is being very dishonest.
No one can buy a guy online without a background check. That is simply wrong.

But by your logic there are massive loopholes in this law: a person can buy a gun from a friend and the two can agree not to do the background check.A person can steal a gun. A person can go to a gunshow in the next state and buy one.
This law will do nothing to reduce crime. And we know this because it hasnt in other states where it was tried.
 
Too bad you listened to the liars about what that bill does. It's gonna lose when challenged in the courts.
But that will violate the will of the people and jeopardize the doctrine of 'states' rights,' certainly as a conservative you oppose an activist judge legislating from the bench and ignoring the will of the people.
Those two important considerations fall in the face of an explicit right stated in the US Constitution.
 
All gun sales in the state of Washington will now have to go through a background check. It passed with 60% majority. I voted with the majority.

So now it will be harder for criminals, those with mental problems and domestic abusers to get a gun. They won't be able to do it legally in the state of Washington anymore.

Interesting, when it's put to the vote of the people, background checks passes. Clearly the people of our nation want all gun sales to go through a background check. Too bad that the nra can buy gop politicians to prevent the same law at the federal level.

Lives will be saved in Washington because of this law.

Voters approve expanded gun background checks in Washington state - Local - MyNorthwest.com

That measure violates the Heller decision. Blatantly. Good luck keeping that one on the books.




It's already on the books in 6 other states and Washington DC.

Good luck getting it off the books!

The people who won't be able to get a gun had lost their right to have a gun when they committed the felony or were diagnosed with mental problems or was abusive to a mate. The law that takes their rights to a gun was established years ago.

All this law does is find out if the buyer is a criminal or has mental problems or is a domestic abuser. If they are, the old federal laws we have on the books prevents those people from getting a gun.

The honor/trust system we have now with private gun sales has not worked thus far. Not asking questions and not verifying has not worked. It's putting guns in the hands of people who clearly shouldn't have them.

It won't. A similar waiting period in Californias gun law was struck down, I-594 has a 10 to 60 day waiting period after a background check. Tell me, what happens to the law then?




It's not a waiting period. It's a background check.

The federal background check has been ruled constitutional. All this law does is expand that federal law to all sales. Not just licensed sellers.

So if it's constitutional for a licensed seller to do a background check it's constitutional for a private seller to do the same check.
You dont get how this works.
Dealers are licensed by the Federal gov't. Ergo the federal gov't can set standards and procedures for them.
Private indivuals are not licensed by the federal gov't. Ergo the federal gov't cannot set procedures for them.
There is no other item of private property subject to these restrictions,even ones more dangerous than guns, like ladders and swimming pools.
 
They have the same laws in California and they don't seem to have had the slightest effect on preventing criminal behavior. Probably because criminals are...well criminals.

So you think background checks on criminals is worthless because criminals will get them illegally anyway? Do you also think we shouldn't have speed limites because speeders will speed anyway. Do you also think we shouldn't have laws on murder because people might kill anyway?

You are a Nihilist




Criminals don't get their guns through normal channels is the point. As I said California has had those laws in place for well over a decade and the violent crime rate continues to increase. The one thing that DID drop crime rates was incarcerating a ton of gangbangers. That worked. These laws don't do anything but inconvenience the law abiding.

"Criminals don't get their guns through normal channels is the point." They do actually because you refuse to believe a gun is dangerous in the wrong hands. I agree, guns don't kill people and people kill people. But your primitive mind set of "I have to have more guns than the bad guy with a gun" only fuels the far Leftists perspective. Because if no one has guns, why do you need guns to protect yourself from guns?

Start talking smart and stop listening to Fox News..........A moderator on a forum LOL..........You were the bottom of the bucket in all forums, how did you get moderator.





Gosh you're stupid. I don't need more guns. I just need the one. A gun is a tool, it's no better or worse than the person using it. Anyone with a brain (which leaves you out) knows this to be true. Progressives don't want civilians to own guns because that way they can control them. The Rumanian revolution was started by their Olympic team breaking into the armory and taking the single shot .22 target pistols out. They used those to kill the guards with the AKs, and they then grabbed those guns and used them to get bigger ones.

Our founders figured out that there are a lot of good people who die in that scenario so they ensured that we didn't have to go through that first step. Progressive dip shits like you have the mental acuity or a gnat and so continually bleat the same progressive bullshit all the while claiming to hate the ruling elite when it's the very ruling elite they claim to hate that stands most to benefit from gun control.

In other words you're a ******* moron who probably has trouble wiping your own ass. I'm a moderator here because I'm a hell of a lot smarter than you. That's why.

"A gun is a tool," ~ If you think guns are "tools" then you bit the bait and don't understand the dangers of guns. People who don't understand the dangers of weapons don't need to own them. THAT is the discussion.

Guns were designed to kill. Nothing more. Tools were designed to fix things. Learn more, type less.
What does a knife or sledgehammer fix?
Guns are designed to shoot bullets. Where they are aimed is up to the operator.
 
Tombstone is a HISTORICAL movie made in 1993. Welcome to politics. You are welcome to call me stupid after this massive amount of information because that is your fortay.
Typical leftist. Can't discern the difference between fact and fantasy.
 
"A gun is a tool," ~ If you think guns are "tools" then you bit the bait and don't understand the dangers of guns. People who don't understand the dangers of weapons don't need to own them. THAT is the discussion.

Guns were designed to kill. Nothing more. Tools were designed to fix things. Learn more, type less.

[Excerpt]

FBI: Hammers, Clubs Kill More People Than Rifles, Shotguns
January 3, 2013 2:44 PM
View Comments
158477644.jpg

credit: Scott Olson/Getty Images

Related Tags:
adam lanza, fbi, hammers, National Firearms Act, National Rifle Association, NRA, reuters, rifles, Sen. Dianne Feinstein.

In 2011, there were 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs. There were 356 murders in which a shotgun was the deadly weapon of choice.

The national debate on guns has grown more intense since Dec. 14, when Adam Lanza forced his way into Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., and killed 20 children and six adults before committing suicide in one of the deadliest school shootings in U.S. history.

Gun vendors told news outlets that the hottest items were such weapons as the AR-15, a semiautomatic rifle that Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., has proposed banning as part of a package of gun regulations. The AR-15 rifle is the same weapon used by Lanza during the elementary school shooting.

The law currently proposed by Sen. Feinstein would strengthen the expired 1994 “Assault Weapons” ban, outlaw certain rifles and handguns, and restrict “high capacity” magazines, in addition to compulsory gun registration under the National Firearms Act, Reuters reports.

“If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America turn them all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren’t here,” Feinstein told MRC-TV in a 1995 interview.

On the other hand, National Rifle Association Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre called on Congress to pass a law putting armed police officers in every school in America in a December press conference.

The number of FBI background checks required for Americans buying guns set a record in December. According to Reuters, the FBI recorded 2.78 million background checks during the month, surpassing the mark set in November of 2.01 million checks – about a 39 percent rise.

The latest monthly figure was up 49 percent over December 2011, when the FBI performed a then-record 1.86 million checks.

The FBI report concedes that some of the “murder by rifle” statistics should be increased slightly because some murders don’t take non-categorized types of guns into account. However, the data still shows that the amount of people killed by hammers, clubs and other blunt instruments still continues to rise each year.

Even as gun purchases rise, the share of U.S. households with a gun has been falling for decades, from 54 percent in 1977 to 32 percent in 2010, according to the University of Chicago’s General Social Survey.
[/Exceprt]

Damn, now I guess you will want to prioritize right??
 
They won't be able to do it legally in the state of Washington anymore.

And that is why you are a moron. OUT-LAWS never did withIN the LAW to begin with, and the crazies don't' care how they do it.


OUT-LAWS operate OUTside the LAW.

Gj beleaguering the law abiding.
What everyone who puts forth this argument ignores is that in countries with strict gun laws, there are far, far less guns in circulation, among criminals as well as 'law abiding' people, and gun violence goes way down. So the idea that if we have strict gun laws only criminals will have guns, is not borne out in reality in countries with strict gun laws. It's in fact a pointless, insupportable argument that you folks repeat over and over again. It's silly to do so. Come up with something real for a change.

Explain Chicago and Washington DC then.
Drugs. Get rid of the intense drug problem and the intense firearm violence will go away. It is already well known that Chicago is the main US drug distribution center for a major South American cartel. I know because I've researched it.
true. decriminalize & tax non-narcotic drugs and violence will decrease. Selling drugs is the ultimate manifestation of capitalism. Theres a demand & the manufacturers & their distributors fulfill it. what is more MURICAN than that?
 
true. decriminalize & tax non-narcotic drugs and violence will decrease. Selling drugs is the ultimate manifestation of capitalism. Theres a demand & the manufacturers & their distributors fulfill it. what is more MURICAN than that?
Stupid post of the day so far.
 
^ Icehack added.....well..... nothing. :thup: You a SOCON son?

Legalizing non-narcotic drugs is the way to go morally & fiscally. Then there wouldn't be secondary school-dropout types (like you) being millionaires & avoiding taxes.
 
When a law is passed but includes a way to get around the law or the intent of the law, that's a loophole.
There was no way to get around the law; it is impossible to legally buy a gun from a dealer w/o a background check.
To argue there's a loophole here is to argue from ignorance and/or dishonesty.
Yes there is a way around the law.
No. There is not.
The law was enacted to require background checks at gun dealers.
There is no legal way around getting background check at a gun dealer, and so there is no loophole in the law.
You choose to lite to yourself if you think otherwise.
 
Background checks with regard to firearms sales are perfectly Constitutional. In Heller the Supreme Court admonished the lower courts to not infer that their decision in any way undermined the constitutionality of laws prohibiting felons or the mentally ill from possessing firearms, and the only way to determine is someone is a prohibited person is via a background check.
:lol:
Funny how you lie to yourself here, that your chosen inference from a general statement equates to a ruling on merit.
:lol:

The state may not presume all who seek to buy a gun are 'guilty' of doing so illegally and compel them to 'prove' that they are innocent by undergoing a background check; to presume a citizen 'might' misuse a civil liberty does not warrant the state's restriction of that right.
 
Last edited:
true. decriminalize & tax non-narcotic drugs and violence will decrease. Selling drugs is the ultimate manifestation of capitalism. Theres a demand & the manufacturers & their distributors fulfill it. what is more MURICAN than that?

Drugs destroy more lives on a daily basis than guns ever could.

Annual Causes of Death in the United States
Related Chapter:
Overdose
For facts about specific drugs, here's a list of Controlled Substance sections.

  1. (Annual Causes of Death, By Cause)

    Cause of death (Data from 2010 unless otherwise noted)Number
    All Causes2,468,435
    Diseases of Heart780,213
    Malignant Neoplasms [Cancer]574,743
    Chronic Lower Respiratory Diseases138,080
    Cerebrovascular Diseases129,476
    Accidents (Unintentional Injuries) [Total]120,859
    Motor Vehicle Accidents [subset of Total Accidents] 35,332
    Alzheimer's Disease83,494
    Diabetes Mellitus69,071
    Nephritis, Nephrotic Syndrome and Nephrosis50,476
    Influenza and Pneumonia50,097
    Drug-Induced Deaths140,393
    Intentional Self-Harm (Suicide)38,364
    Septicemia34,812
    Chronic Liver Disease and Cirrhosis31,903
    Firearm Injuries31,672
    Essential Hypertension and Hypertensive Renal Disease26,634
    Alcohol-Induced Deaths25,692
    Parkinson's Disease22,032
    Pneumonitis Due to Solids and Liquids17,011
    Homicide16,259
    Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)8,369
    Viral hepatitis7,564
    All Illicit Drugs Combined (2000)217,0002
    Cannabis (Marijuana)30

    2010 Drug Overdose Mortality Data In Detail as Reported By Paulozzi et al.4
    Drug Overdose Total38,329
    Pharmaceutical Drugs22,134
    Pharmaceutical Opioid Analgesics16,651
    [TBODY] [/TBODY]

Looks like 40,000 and change for drugs, 31,000 and change for firearms...............
Firearms are looking much less deadly than drugs .................. let's get our priorities straight!!
 
15th post



good film, not very realistic historically though

but you are no daisy, no daisy at all


I want to say, "I'll let you catch up" but that would be progress LOL. You sir, just got owned on so many different levels you didn't comprehend I would be embarrassed to show your face ever.


you couldn't own a piece of gum you stupid ****

I got owned because you post a move clip

god you really are the same moron we kicked all over DP


"I got owned because you post a move clip"



good film, not very realistic historically though

but you are no daisy, no daisy at all


I want to say, "I'll let you catch up" but that would be progress LOL. You sir, just got owned on so many different levels you didn't comprehend I would be embarrassed to show your face ever.


you couldn't own a piece of gum you stupid ****

I got owned because you post a move clip

god you really are the same moron we kicked all over DP


You've had 2 hours to watch the movie since your last post. Did you notice that Doc Holliday was a Moderate in the movie? One of the few actually smart gun owners giving him an edge over the chest beating neanderthals? He stood by the law, not by the nihilists.



lets see, you pick a movie that is a fictionalized account of reality and you say that is authority I should worship

Listen you stupid fairy, why don't you put a clip of GONE WITH THE WIND and say that proves Slavery was GOOD

Your moronic idiocy would have some relevance if I cited the Earp GANG as some sort of pro gun rights authority

I didn't fucktard so your attempts are moronic
 
Here is what the law does

suppose you teach people how to shoot as I do.

and say one of my friends says "HEY turtle, my wife is thinking of getting a CCW, could you teach her and have her get a pistol she is comfortable with"

So in OHIO, what I do would meet with the lady, explain the laws, etc and have her handle say 10-12 different pistols suitable for a lady to CC. then after she picked 3-4 we'd go over to the range and I would let her shoot each pistol 40-50 times

NOW IN WASHINGTON I would have to do a BACKGROUND CHECK on each pistol I lent her to shoot


IDIOCY
 
Here is what the law does

suppose you teach people how to shoot as I do.

and say one of my friends says "HEY turtle, my wife is thinking of getting a CCW, could you teach her and have her get a pistol she is comfortable with"

So in OHIO, what I do would meet with the lady, explain the laws, etc and have her handle say 10-12 different pistols suitable for a lady to CC. then after she picked 3-4 we'd go over to the range and I would let her shoot each pistol 40-50 times

NOW IN WASHINGTON I would have to do a BACKGROUND CHECK on each pistol I lent her to shoot


IDIOCY
I dont think thats the case. If you go to a shooting range and rent one of their guns they dont run a background check.
Now, if you loaned her the gun overnight or for the day, yes you're right.
 
[
The federal background check has been ruled constitutional.

This case says states, DON"T have to comply with Federal background checks .................

Printz v. United States

Mack and Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898 (1997),[1] was a United States Supreme Court ruling that established the unconstitutionality of certain interim provisions of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

The Gun Control Act of 1968
The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), Pub. L 90-618 and subsequent amendments established a detailed Federal scheme governing the distribution of firearms. The GCA prohibited firearms ownership by certain broad categories of individuals thought to pose a threat to public safety: convicted felons, convicted misdemeanor domestic violence or stalking offenders, persons with an outstanding felony warrant, fugitives from justice, unlawful aliens, persons with court-mandated protective orders issued against them, persons who have been involuntarily committed to a mental health facility, adjudicated mentally ill by a court, and others.

Persons disqualified from firearms ownership for mental health reasons can apply to have this disability removed. States that do not maintain an application process to allow persons disqualified for mental health reasons to obtain relief from firearms prohibition face Justice Assistance Grant penalties. Section 105 of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 (NIAA), cited as Pub. L. 110-180, § 105, provides for restoration of firearm ownership rights in mental health cases. Under NIAA it is up to each U.S. state to come up with its own application process; thus the procedure to regain one's rights vary from state-to-state.

The Brady Act
In 1993, Congress amended the 1968 Gun Control Act by enacting the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, Pub. L. 103-159. This 1993 Act required the Attorney General to establish an electronic or phone-based background check to prevent firearms sales to persons already prohibited from owning firearms. This check, entitled the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) went into effect as required on November 30, 1998.

Interim provisions
The Act also immediately put in place certain interim provisions until that system became operative. Under the interim provisions, a firearms dealer who proposes to transfer a handgun must receive from the transferee a statement (the Brady Form), containing the name, address and date of the proposed transferee along with a sworn statement that the transferee is not among any of the classes of prohibited purchasers, verify the identity of the transferee by examining an identification document, and provide the "chief law enforcement officer" (CLEO) of the transferee's residence with notice of the contents (and a copy) of the Brady Form.

When a CLEO receives the required notice of a proposed transfer, they must "make a reasonable effort to ascertain within 5 business days whether receipt or possession would be in violation of the law, including research in whatever State and local recordkeeping systems are available and in a national system designated by the Attorney General."

The plaintiffs
Petitioners Jay Printz and Richard Mack, the Chief Law Enforcement Officers for Ravalli County, Montana, and Graham County, Arizona, represented by Stephen Halbrook and David T. Hardy respectively, filed separate actions challenging the constitutionality of the Brady Act's interim provisions. They objected to the use of congressional action to compel state officers to execute Federal law.

Higher court decisions
In each case, the District Court held that the provision requiring CLEOs to perform background checks was unconstitutional, but concluded that provision was severable from the remainder of the Act, effectively leaving a voluntary background check system in place. A divided panel of the Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit reversed, finding none of the Brady Act's interim provisions to be unconstitutional.

Majority decision
The majority of five justices ruled that the interim provisions of the Brady Bill are unconstitutional. In his opinion, Justice Scalia states that, although there is no constitutional text precisely responding to the challenge, an answer can be found “in historical understanding and practice, the structure of the Constitution, and in the jurisprudence of this Court.”

Historical understanding and practice
Scalia concedes that legislation compelling judges to carry out federal legislation has been passed but considers that the nature of the courts, which occupy a vertical hierarchy that requires consideration of prior decisions by federal or state courts, exempts this from applying in this case. Furthermore, contrasting the frequency of legislation applying to judicial courts to the absence of legislation applying to state executives to show this power was not granted.

The structure of the Constitution
Scalia refers to the “dual sovereignty” established by the U.S. Constitution that federalism is built upon. His opinion states that the Framers designed the Constitution to allow Federal regulation of international and interstate matters, not internal matters reserved to the State Legislatures. The majority arrives at the conclusion that allowing the Federal government to draft the police officers of the 50 states into its service would increase its powers far beyond what the Constitution intends.

The Court also offered an alternative basis for striking down the provision: it violated the constitutional separation of powers by robbing the president of his power to execute the laws; that is, it contradicted the "unitary executive theory". The Court explained

We have thus far discussed the effect that federal control of state officers would have upon the first element of the "double security" alluded to by Madison: the division of power between State and Federal Governments. It would also have an effect upon the second element: the separation and equilibration of powers between the three branches of the Federal Government itself. The Constitution does not leave to speculation who is to administer the laws enacted by Congress; the President, it says, "shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed," Art. II, §3, personally and through officers whom he appoints (save for such inferior officers as Congress may authorize to be appointed by the "Courts of Law" or by "the Heads of Departments" who with other presidential appointees), Art. II, §2. The Brady Act effectively transfers this responsibility to thousands of CLEOs in the 50 States, who are left to implement the program without meaningful Presidential control (if indeed meaningful Presidential control is possible without the power to appoint and remove). The insistence of the Framers upon unity in the Federal Executive—to insure both vigor and accountability—is well known. See The Federalist No. 70 (A. Hamilton); 2 Documentary History of the Ratification of the Constitution 495 (M. Jensen ed. 1976) (statement of James Wilson); see also Calabresi & Prakash, The President's Power to Execute the Laws, 104 Yale L. J. 541 (1994). That unity would be shattered, and the power of the President would be subject to reduction, if Congress could act as effectively without the President as with him, by simply requiring state officers to execute its laws.
Finally, the majority cited previous rulings by the Supreme Court in similar situations. In New York v. United States, the Court invalidated a provision in a bill that "coerced" states to comply with a federal radioactive waste-disposal regime, holding "[t]he Federal Government may not compel the States to enact or administer a federal regulatory program". New York v. United States, 505 U.S. 144, 188 (1992).

The dissent
In his dissent, Justice Stevens suggests the Commerce clause of the Constitution, giving the Federal government the right to regulate handgun sales, can be coupled with the Necessary and Proper Clause, giving Congress the power to pass whatever laws are necessary and proper to carry out its previously enumerated power. Federal direction of state officials in this manner is analogous to ordering the mass inoculation of children to forestall an epidemic, or directing state officials to respond to a terrorist threat. He is very concerned with the ability of the federal government to respond to a national emergency and does not believe that "there is anything in the 10th amendment 'in historical understanding and practice, in the structure of the Constitution, or in the jurisprudence of this Court,' that forbids the enlistment of state officers to make that response effective." Moreover, the text of the Constitution does not support the Majority's apparent proposition that "a local police officer can ignore a command contained in a statute enacted by Congress pursuant to an express delegation of power enumerated in Article I."

Effects of the decision
The immediate effects of the ruling on the Brady Bill were negligible. The vast majority of local and state law enforcement officials supported the interim provisions and were happy to comply with the background checks. The issue ended with the completion of the federal background check database. However, Mack and Printz v. United States was an important ruling in support of States' Rights and limits on Federal power.

The political poles have reversed from Mack and Printz, especially after the attack on the World Trade Center; where Mack and Printz protected conservative local authorities from liberal federal power, it also now protects liberal local authorities from conservative federal power. Professor Ann Althouse has suggested, retained in its strong form, the anti-commandeering doctrine announced in Mack and Printz "can work as a safeguard for the rights of the people";"the federal government might go too far in prosecuting the war on terrorism," Mack and Printz provides a circuit-breaker that might allow local and state officials to refuse to enforce regulations curbing individual rights. Moreover, "y denying the means of commandeering to the federal government, the courts have created an incentive [for Congress] to adopt policies that inspire [rather than demand] compliance, thus preserving a beneficial structural safeguard for individual rights," and "state and local government autonomy can exert pressure on the federal government to moderate its efforts and take care not to offend constitutional rights."[1]
 
Back
Top Bottom