Guess what liberal -- the War on Christmas is back -- this time in a VA hospital

[IsaacNewton]

I wish it were only one political party, but it's not, it the entire god damn country. I'm not sure what got lost, but somehow there is a fucked up mentality in this country today... Like...

Okay, so my husband is pondering reporting a 20 something drive-through cashier at the local McDonald's to the owners because for the second time this dirt bag has told him the wrong amount was due and then put into the register the wrong amount he'd given the guy - In this case the bill was $20, the kid was saying it was $22 and my husband though, hmmm they raised the prices. Then he looks at the receipt and it's $20, so he call the guy on it and the guy goes oh your right sorry bout that. - My husband is /sure/ that this guy is ripping off the owners, pocketing the extra cash, and my husband's right, I'd never catch it, most folks wouldn't, specially not out here. We just pay what the guy says it is and move on, we don't add up how much it should be in our heads or anything, we just ya know pay what he says is owed.

But the fucked up part, which I know from personal experience managing, is that this guy, if caught, 9 times out of 10 will feel 'justified' in ripping off the owners. It's like we had a gal at a local place; the owner, friend of the family, wanted me to take over running it so he could retire and his kids wouldn't do it (I convinced the kids to take over) - but so there's this gal and she apparently hated a co-worker, so I come to find out she's stealing money from the till and blaming him, AND making Yelp complaints about this co-worker in order to get him fired. That's fucked the hell up...

Another instance, so I catch this guy stealing from the company during deposit runs (not a hell of a lot, ya know $10-15 here and there, it was nothing this particular company couldn't absorb so I advised that with the cost of retraining, which we'd be looking at at least 3 months of training, might not be worth getting rid of the guy, rather to let me chat with him and we'll just keep an eye on him in the future; cause yea managers do that shit, half the time big companies don't even talk to the employees about theft, they just write it off, not kidding.) Well anyway so I talk to this guy and he gets an attitude with me, after I argued to let him keep his job no less, said he "felt completely justified in stealing" because he was only getting paid $20/hour. I was floored, fired him on the spot, of course, but I /still/ haven't gotten over that sense of "justification" he apparently felt. I mean I wish I could write this shit off to "oh they're acting like its okay but they really know its wrong" but I don't think that's the case.

Another instance, I'm consulting for an international and they'd brought up a supply issue, kind of as an aside (basically just saying "hey if you notice anything let us know.") So anyway I'm in a meeting with the HR department to streamline their interviewing and hiring practices and this gal, one of the receptionists, comes in and grabs a couple cases of printer paper; we get intro'ed, shake her hand, and off she goes with the first case, then the second. So we continue with our meeting, like 20 minutes later she's back for more cases of paper; now I'm not thinking anything of this, I figure she's delivering to other divisions and crap right? Afterwards, I'm out in the lobby talking with one of the HR folks from the meeting (we hit it off and she was telling me about the local sights and what not) anyway, so the receptionist gives a case of the paper to a delivery guy that'd come in - now I know this company only has the one office building and this delivery guy is going out the front door so it strikes me as a bit odd, but ya know I just shrugged it off because who knows - maybe it's being sent to an at-home worker, you never know. Fast forward like a month, so it turns out this receptionist is selling the cases of paper online and pocketing the money, no one in the building ever really noticed and so forth so it just kind of didn't get noticed, funny story, until one of the new hires went to their boss saying that they saw cases of paper for sale online all the time and it'd be cheaper than they were paying Office Depot right? So this kid, the new hire, sets up to buy some cases of paper and ends up standing before the receptionist at his new work LOL So the manager is talking to the receptionist about this "situation" (because you have to be real prim and proper when catching someone stealing these days ~rolls eyes~) and this woman says that she was told it was a "perk of working there." I'm thinking, what kind of bullshit lame excuse is that shit, right? No turns out, no fucking joke, the other manager had allowed /all/ the employees to sell off company supplies and in exchange they were supposed to give 10% back to the "company" (aka the managers pocket, right?) So the head honcho's talk to this manager guy and he's pissed that he's only making $150k when the senior manager is making $180k so he's "making up for the inequality of pay" by selling the supplies. How fucked up is that shit?

UGH... Yea, I wish it was just one party, but it's not, the whole fucking world's gone stupid >.<

... I'm sorry, I went off on a rant there :/

Corruption is the norm where the upper management is corrupt.

I've worked at a number of companies and the VP's and their managers ran the place like it was their own personal employment agency. Giving all management jobs to their family, their friends, etc. Most of these people having no qualifications and no experience and a lot of loyal employees who were more than qualified for these positions were ignored. Guess what the result was on moral. "Why should I do any more than the bare minimum to keep my job, there is no chance for advancement here no matter how hard you work or how well you do your job".

These type things are rare in companies where the upper management is not corrupt, I've seen it. Its always top down. Because as soon as they hear about corruption like this they get rid of the perp and get someone new.

You have to look at the whole picture. There are lazy corrupt people digging ditches and running companies. Sad fact of humanity but that is the case. If you are stuck in a corrupt system get out, as soon as possible. The most valuable thing you possess is your time, it is in fact your life ticking away one second at a time. Do not waste it on the also-ran corrupt a-holes of the world. Find a place where ability, persistence, and hard work DO payoff.

And I would inform the corporate about your experience at this restaurant. Believe me, McDonald's is seeing their numbers drop and they WILL do something. Most companies will. Tell them in no uncertain terms you won't stop by a McDonald's for the next 6 months. Not only will they do something you will get a response.

But you have to go to corporate.

 

[rdean]

Obama's VA Facility Bans Christmas Trees and 'Merry Christmas'

I have to say this fellow Christian. Obama is a total asshole and likes to shit on us because he enjoys persecuting everything Christian -- even something as secular as the Christmas tree.

If this were any other country with a parliamentary system, Obama would already be out of power on a "no confidence" vote.

So Congress is helpless as Obama rules like a tyrant with Executive Orders.

So he ruins Christmas for veterans in hospitals. These guys fought for the freedom of religion, that now has been denied to them.

It makes me want to puke.

And I will say this, any liberal who comes on this thread to deny there is a War on Christmas, you are a liar.

Liberals hate God, Jesus, and the celebration of Christian holidays.

They want a world that only celebrates liberal days, like "Earth Day" -- and by the way Earth Day is held on the birth

Considering that Republicans want to cut veterans benefits, perhaps that's not the best example.

 

[EverCurious]

@Issac - I'll agree there are some manager's that run the place like they own it, but that "mentality" is what owners want to a point. I do not agree that "the majority" are corrupt though, some, of course.

I mean yes, managers hire their friends (most of the places I've worked at wouldn't allow them to hire family) and if that's your only argument for them being "corrupt" you're looking at it all wrong imho - hiring your friends as a manager isn't that much different than the cashier saying "hey I've got a friend" and referring their friend to a position that's open. There's not actually anything wrong with that, it usually increases workplace cohesion as friends tend to work together better than "strangers" - though I'll admit it is /better/ for the company if "strangers" become "friends" because there is a psychological connection that gives a warm fuzzy to the employee when they think of their company then (the "I met my good friend at work" so "I like my job" thing) but if you've got a couple friends, especially if it's male friends, then they'll compete for shit; productivity awards, raises, jobs, you name it which is ultimately good for the company. Though I can agree that passing up other employees that are qualified for the position to hire a friend isn't a good thing - I've not really seen that per say, but then again the places I worked at/for where I was "directly" involved in actual hiring were hiring "friends" for lower positions, starter rung shit rather than just sticking them straight into high paid positions that senior employees might have wanted.

 

[IsaacNewton]

@Issac - I'll agree there are some manager's that run the place like they own it, but that "mentality" is what owners want to a point. I do not agree that "the majority" are corrupt though, some, of course.

I mean yes, managers hire their friends (most of the places I've worked at wouldn't allow them to hire family) and if that's your only argument for them being "corrupt" you're looking at it all wrong imho - hiring your friends as a manager isn't that much different than the cashier saying "hey I've got a friend" and referring their friend to a position that's open. There's not actually anything wrong with that, it usually increases workplace cohesion as friends tend to work together better than "strangers" - though I'll admit it is /better/ for the company if "strangers" become "friends" because there is a psychological connection that gives a warm fuzzy to the employee when they think of their company then (the "I met my good friend at work" so "I like my job" thing) but if you've got a couple friends, especially if it's male friends, then they'll compete for shit; productivity awards, raises, jobs, you name it which is ultimately good for the company. Though I can agree that passing up other employees that are qualified for the position to hire a friend isn't a good thing - I've not really seen that per say, but then again the places I worked at/for where I was "directly" involved in actual hiring were hiring "friends" for lower positions, starter rung shit rather than just sticking them straight into high paid positions that senior employees might have wanted.

Sorry, corruption is corruption. Corrupt people hire their friends and family without regard to the bottom line of the company. Corrupt people also hire people that will support, rather than oppose, their corruption. Friends and family fit that bill like no other. Because you haven't 'seen' it means you have been insulated from reality to a large degree or been lucky enough to work somewhere where this isn't the norm. You get someone corrupt like this in an HR position and they are hiring and firing specifically to entrench whatever higher up's corrupt goal is. That is how it works.

What you advocate is what the mediocre companies run on. "Well let them do as they want". That is how you get a company full of people that couldn't care less about the success of the company, except to do just enough not to get fired. That is what corruption, all corruption, does.

What corruption boils down to is weakness. These are people that cannot make it on their own ability and talents so they cheat. That is what cheating is, the inability to compete. And that type thing does run in families which is why so many of these people fill the management positions under them with family or close friends.

 

[EverCurious]

Well I've mostly done consulting the past couple decades or so, some of that non-US. Most of the owners, and even boards, I'll agree, didn't care if their employees were hiring friends of other employees. Maybe I am lucky, I didn't see a lot of corruption over all in the vast majorities of the businesses I dealt with.

Though I'll disagree that just because someone hires a friend it means they don't care about the company, there is absolutely no connection between the two; in fact, I'd actually argue the opposite to some extent - hire a friend because it's a good job to have, aka you're trying to help them out, this doesn't jive with the "this company sucks" mentality you say exists. Maybe in like fast food and shit where you've got kids running the place? I didn't do any of that stuff.

 

[Kondor3]

I'm thinking of those unfortunate veterans - men and women - who will be spending Christmas in the hospital, on a VA healthcare campus, in facilities where such expressions of good cheer and fellowship are now either prohibited or at-risk. Not exactly what most of our veterans fought for in the first place. And, in this context, it is they who matter

 

[rdean]

I'm thinking of those unfortunate veterans - men and women - who will be spending Christmas in the hospital, on a VA healthcare campus, in facilities where such expressions of good cheer and fellowship are now either prohibited or at-risk. Not exactly what most of our veterans fought for in the first place. And, in this context, it is they who matter

Not to the right wing.

 

[guno]

Obama's VA Facility Bans Christmas Trees and 'Merry Christmas'

I have to say this fellow Christian. Obama is a total asshole and likes to shit on us because he enjoys persecuting everything Christian -- even something as secular as the Christmas tree.

If this were any other country with a parliamentary system, Obama would already be out of power on a "no confidence" vote.

So Congress is helpless as Obama rules like a tyrant with Executive Orders.

So he ruins Christmas for veterans in hospitals. These guys fought for the freedom of religion, that now has been denied to them.

It makes me want to puke.

And I will say this, any liberal who comes on this thread to deny there is a War on Christmas, you are a liar.

Liberals hate God, Jesus, and the celebration of Christian holidays.

They want a world that only celebrates liberal days, like "Earth Day" -- and by the way Earth Day is held on the birth

christers looking to be offended , why should taxpayers who are non christers support your delusional religion

 

[Arianrhod]

I'm thinking of those unfortunate veterans - men and women - who will be spending Christmas in the hospital, on a VA healthcare campus, in facilities where such expressions of good cheer and fellowship are now either prohibited or at-risk. Not exactly what most of our veterans fought for in the first place. And, in this context, it is they who matter

I'd think having their loved ones visit and having staff that takes care of their needs (and who have the budget to meet those needs) would be far more important to them than a plastic Pagan Tree (which will, BTW, be there; guess you didn't bother reading the rest of the thread).

 

[Kondor3]

I'm thinking of those unfortunate veterans - men and women - who will be spending Christmas in the hospital, on a VA healthcare campus, in facilities where such expressions of good cheer and fellowship are now either prohibited or at-risk. Not exactly what most of our veterans fought for in the first place. And, in this context, it is they who matter

Not to the right wing.

The well-being of our veterans - and most especially those who have not done well in life and need help - is of importance to most Americans... Left, Right and Center.

The policy present being discussed flies in the face of the sentiments and desires of most veterans - and is not attuned to the greater good.

 

[Kondor3]

I'm thinking of those unfortunate veterans - men and women - who will be spending Christmas in the hospital, on a VA healthcare campus, in facilities where such expressions of good cheer and fellowship are now either prohibited or at-risk. Not exactly what most of our veterans fought for in the first place. And, in this context, it is they who matter

I'd think having their loved ones visit and having staff that takes care of their needs (and who have the budget to meet those needs) would be far more important to them than a plastic Pagan Tree (which will, BTW, be there; guess you didn't bother reading the rest of the thread).

Yes. I saw the follow up. I am critical of the original decision. As well as continued coercion to force staff to avoid references to Christmas, which has not been rescinded.

 

[Arianrhod]

I'm thinking of those unfortunate veterans - men and women - who will be spending Christmas in the hospital, on a VA healthcare campus, in facilities where such expressions of good cheer and fellowship are now either prohibited or at-risk. Not exactly what most of our veterans fought for in the first place. And, in this context, it is they who matter

I'd think having their loved ones visit and having staff that takes care of their needs (and who have the budget to meet those needs) would be far more important to them than a plastic Pagan Tree (which will, BTW, be there; guess you didn't bother reading the rest of the thread).

Yes. I saw the follow up. I am critical of the original decision. As well as continued coercion to force staff to avoid references to Christmas, which has not been rescinded.

I think questions like "Are you having any pain?" and "Can I get you something?" would be more pertinent. Knowing you're in the hospital on Christmas - and possibly for life - might be something you wouldn't want to be reminded of. JMO.

 

[Kondor3]

I'm thinking of those unfortunate veterans - men and women - who will be spending Christmas in the hospital, on a VA healthcare campus, in facilities where such expressions of good cheer and fellowship are now either prohibited or at-risk. Not exactly what most of our veterans fought for in the first place. And, in this context, it is they who matter

I'd think having their loved ones visit and having staff that takes care of their needs (and who have the budget to meet those needs) would be far more important to them than a plastic Pagan Tree (which will, BTW, be there; guess you didn't bother reading the rest of the thread).

Yes. I saw the follow up. I am critical of the original decision. As well as continued coercion to force staff to avoid references to Christmas, which has not been rescinded.

I think questions like "Are you having any pain?" and "Can I get you something?" would be more pertinent. Knowing you're in the hospital on Christmas - and possibly for life - might be something you wouldn't want to be reminded of. JMO.

You have obviously not spent any appreciable time in a VA healthcare facility dealing with the chronically ill and long-term hospitalization cases.

For most such cases, a VA campus is home, or home-away-from home, and having a little of the Christmas Spirit about, in the facility, makes a difference, to a great many of them.

 

[EverCurious]

I kind of see Kondor's point here; I took care of a friend of the family, proud military guy (he had an amazing collection of war memorabilia in the basement bar, his stories were amazing) his health went into a really bad decline around age 70, his wife had quit her job to take care of him full time for I guess 3 years or so, but she fell down the stairs and broke her hip - they didn't want some "stranger" in their home, so I was going over to help every day. Anyway, every year they had me put up their tree and decorate the house, they were not religious folks. Christmas wasn't really about religion for them, it was a time their families came to visit them, it was when they got to see their grandkids and spoil them with presents, it wasn't a religious holiday for them, it was a family holiday. They were very particular about a set of electric candles she always put in the prow front window; I never thought anything of it, just ya know did it the way they wanted, but apparently it was symbolism - each of the lights represented one of their kids, and their arrangement in the window and the candle lights were actually from their new homes; apparently after the kids had gotten sent to new posts they would send mom and dad a new electric candle to "represent" them - the whole thing was really sweet and unexpected on my part. I had no idea about it until Angie's funeral a year or so ago, in her will she gave the kids their candles (Floyd had passed away a couple years earlier) telling them it was there duty to "keep the lights on" - apparently it was what Floyd had told Angie and the babies when he went off to war. So it was a tradition that extended nearly their entire lives.

Tradition, not religion, and perhaps there is something to be said to give these men some traditions and comforts...

 

[Tilly]

I kind of see Kondor's point here; I took care of a friend of the family, proud military guy (he had an amazing collection of war memorabilia in the basement bar, his stories were amazing) his health went into a really bad decline around age 70, his wife had quit her job to take care of him full time for I guess 3 years or so, but she fell down the stairs and broke her hip - they didn't want some "stranger" in their home, so I was going over to help every day. Anyway, every year they had me put up their tree and decorate the house, they were not religious folks. Christmas wasn't really about religion for them, it was a time their families came to visit them, it was when they got to see their grandkids and spoil them with presents, it wasn't a religious holiday for them, it was a family holiday. They were very particular about a set of electric candles she always put in the prow front window; I never thought anything of it, just ya know did it the way they wanted, but apparently it was symbolism - each of the lights represented one of their kids, and their arrangement in the window and the candle lights were actually from their new homes; apparently after the kids had gotten sent to new posts they would send mom and dad a new electric candle to "represent" them - the whole thing was really sweet and unexpected on my part. I had no idea about it until Angie's funeral a year or so ago, in her will she gave the kids their candles (Floyd had passed away a couple years earlier) telling them it was there duty to "keep the lights on" - apparently it was what Floyd had told Angie and the babies when he went off to war. So it was a tradition that extended nearly their entire lives.

Tradition, not religion, and perhaps there is something to be said to give these men some traditions and comforts...

What a heartwarming story of love and family. Thank you for posting it, EverCurious.

 

[Tilly]

I'm not religious and neither is any of my family. We all put up Christmas trees.

 

[EverCurious]

I apparently was a part of it and I didn't even know about it until it was gone Kind of saddens me, that something so important to them was so easily overlooked by me, and I'm a curious type. How easy it is to misunderstand such things...

 

[hortysir]

After heated debate, Salem VA Medical Center allows Christmas tree after all

fortunately, it has been reversed.

It's a shame that it would have to come to a "heated debate"

Pick up a calendar.....any calendar
December 25th is called Christmas Day
It's a National Holiday

 

[hortysir]

Obama's VA Facility Bans Christmas Trees and 'Merry Christmas'

I have to say this fellow Christian. Obama is a total asshole and likes to shit on us because he enjoys persecuting everything Christian -- even something as secular as the Christmas tree.

If this were any other country with a parliamentary system, Obama would already be out of power on a "no confidence" vote.

So Congress is helpless as Obama rules like a tyrant with Executive Orders.

So he ruins Christmas for veterans in hospitals. These guys fought for the freedom of religion, that now has been denied to them.

It makes me want to puke.

And I will say this, any liberal who comes on this thread to deny there is a War on Christmas, you are a liar.

Liberals hate God, Jesus, and the celebration of Christian holidays.

They want a world that only celebrates liberal days, like "Earth Day" -- and by the way Earth Day is held on the birth

no one hates your religion. but it doesn't belong everyplace. it belongs in your home and church.

would you like a tissue?

Which part of "free exercise thereof" is giving you problems?

Or is it the part that says that "Congress shall pass NO LAW"??

 

[LoneLaugher]