Going to suggest a solution

[CowboyTed]

Who the fuck are

We seem to have hit an impasse politically.... Moderates are are threatened with primaries and compromise is considered evil.

Here is a possible solution.

Congress
Congressional elections would consist of 3-5 seat districts with preference voting. This is very common around the world. This would mean in effect that the two main parties would be running multiple candidates in all districts. Smaller parties and independents could also flourish as they would have better chance at the polls. Each big party has to run a big tent and put up with undesirables, this would mean rather than surrendering the middle ground, extremists in each party would be allow to splinter.
Your vote would would be given to the candidate in your highest preference. If he/she gets eliminated your vote goes to your next choice.
The voter would get more choice and doesn't have to waste there vote on a non viable candidate in the fear that there enemy winning. You vote who you want and your vote goes to that person. Here is an example of an election count
View attachment 453616
This is a 5 seater. Quota is set at Total valid votes/(number of seats +1)... This means if get to the quota you are elected and your surplus is then divided out (can explain that more if needed).
First count just counts all votes as normal, from there they discount the bottom ones and share out the next preference still in the race until a quota is reached. When some one gets elected there surplus over the quota is shared.
Big advantage is negative campaigning is far less effective, being positive reaps more as gain. You get elected usually by a lot of peoples second and third preferences. Incumbents don't usually get primaried as you see the bigger parties Fianna Fail and Fine Gail have 3 candidates each. So when elected they try and work for every one.
This also means there is no death districts... In liberal area GOP would looking for the last seat and visa versa...

Senate (possibly)
Run in the same manner but two seats could go up at the same time... So in California Republicans would trying to get the second seat and the Democrats could be looking for a shut out and visa vera in West Virgina...

It is just a thought...

who the fuck are u as a foreigner to suggest a solutioNs? How about I go to Irish message board and tell everyone there how to live their lives? Wouldn’t go over well would it? So I ask again who the fuck are you to “offer solutions?”

This is a discussion board... how about you just consider it as Americans... A large part of this forum has entrenched into camps...

I believe solution I proposed allows voters better choice, the chance for alternative parties to run and to expand the discourse of politics in America.

Rather people trying to see how this effects there party, how would effect their country...
Would this make congress more representative of the people?
Could it create and foster people to get things done rather than dig there heals in and give no ground to the other side?

Note: FU foreigner just exposes you as a weak person that is unable to to discuss issues but only hurl insults... If you think that is better for America, I suggest run in the next election and see how popular your stance is....
By the way this also allows Trump Supporters to have there own party if they are not happy in the GOP or Moderate GOP (that you call RINOs) to find there own party or path.

listen fuckface, no one wants outsiders to tell them how to live. You are one arrogant asshole who thinks your opinion matters. Fuck you and the horse you rode on you fucking piece of dogshit. And take your unsolicited solutions and shove them up your fat ass.

I know that you seemed to be threatened by any new ideas... You find them offensive for some reason...

Luckily US was not built on this, how about you look at what is suggested and make a constructive comment.

 

[BULLDOG]

The point is the Democratic party no longer is trying to satisfy that segment.

I don't know exactly when it happened, but at some point the Democrats went from an American party to straight up subversives bent on dividing and transforming America into who knows what.

In your mind it started when Gingrich decided to throw ethics out the window of the republican party and start relying on lies instead.

 

[CowboyTed]

The point is the Democratic party no longer is trying to satisfy that segment.

I don't know exactly when it happened, but at some point the Democrats went from an American party to straight up subversives bent on dividing and transforming America into who knows what.

In your mind it started when Gingrich decided to throw ethics out the window of the republican party and start relying on lies instead.

Any comment on the OP, Please...

 

[CowboyTed]

Moved this to the Clean debate as it descended into mudslinging

 

[Rocko]

Who the fuck are

We seem to have hit an impasse politically.... Moderates are are threatened with primaries and compromise is considered evil.

Here is a possible solution.

Congress
Congressional elections would consist of 3-5 seat districts with preference voting. This is very common around the world. This would mean in effect that the two main parties would be running multiple candidates in all districts. Smaller parties and independents could also flourish as they would have better chance at the polls. Each big party has to run a big tent and put up with undesirables, this would mean rather than surrendering the middle ground, extremists in each party would be allow to splinter.
Your vote would would be given to the candidate in your highest preference. If he/she gets eliminated your vote goes to your next choice.
The voter would get more choice and doesn't have to waste there vote on a non viable candidate in the fear that there enemy winning. You vote who you want and your vote goes to that person. Here is an example of an election count
View attachment 453616
This is a 5 seater. Quota is set at Total valid votes/(number of seats +1)... This means if get to the quota you are elected and your surplus is then divided out (can explain that more if needed).
First count just counts all votes as normal, from there they discount the bottom ones and share out the next preference still in the race until a quota is reached. When some one gets elected there surplus over the quota is shared.
Big advantage is negative campaigning is far less effective, being positive reaps more as gain. You get elected usually by a lot of peoples second and third preferences. Incumbents don't usually get primaried as you see the bigger parties Fianna Fail and Fine Gail have 3 candidates each. So when elected they try and work for every one.
This also means there is no death districts... In liberal area GOP would looking for the last seat and visa versa...

Senate (possibly)
Run in the same manner but two seats could go up at the same time... So in California Republicans would trying to get the second seat and the Democrats could be looking for a shut out and visa vera in West Virgina...

It is just a thought...

who the fuck are u as a foreigner to suggest a solutioNs? How about I go to Irish message board and tell everyone there how to live their lives? Wouldn’t go over well would it? So I ask again who the fuck are you to “offer solutions?”

This is a discussion board... how about you just consider it as Americans... A large part of this forum has entrenched into camps...

I believe solution I proposed allows voters better choice, the chance for alternative parties to run and to expand the discourse of politics in America.

Rather people trying to see how this effects there party, how would effect their country...
Would this make congress more representative of the people?
Could it create and foster people to get things done rather than dig there heals in and give no ground to the other side?

Note: FU foreigner just exposes you as a weak person that is unable to to discuss issues but only hurl insults... If you think that is better for America, I suggest run in the next election and see how popular your stance is....
By the way this also allows Trump Supporters to have there own party if they are not happy in the GOP or Moderate GOP (that you call RINOs) to find there own party or path.

listen fuckface, no one wants outsiders to tell them how to live. You are one arrogant asshole who thinks your opinion matters. Fuck you and the horse you rode on you fucking piece of dogshit. And take your unsolicited solutions and shove them up your fat ass.

I know that you seemed to be threatened by any new ideas... You find them offensive for some reason...

Luckily US was not built on this, how about you look at what is suggested and make a constructive comment.

fuck off young lad. You’re a hack. You know shit about America and don’t have to live with any of the consequences that come with your suggestions. So fuck you. if Ireland was the standard for living then I would ask for your recommendations, but the US is the standard for living. We’re happy without fucks like you butting in and telling us what’s good for us. we’re fucking number by literally every measure in the world. Worry about your own country. And this is not to be disrespectful to the Irish, many of them are great people, but you’re an asshole.

 

[CowboyTed]

Who the fuck are

We seem to have hit an impasse politically.... Moderates are are threatened with primaries and compromise is considered evil.

Here is a possible solution.

Congress
Congressional elections would consist of 3-5 seat districts with preference voting. This is very common around the world. This would mean in effect that the two main parties would be running multiple candidates in all districts. Smaller parties and independents could also flourish as they would have better chance at the polls. Each big party has to run a big tent and put up with undesirables, this would mean rather than surrendering the middle ground, extremists in each party would be allow to splinter.
Your vote would would be given to the candidate in your highest preference. If he/she gets eliminated your vote goes to your next choice.
The voter would get more choice and doesn't have to waste there vote on a non viable candidate in the fear that there enemy winning. You vote who you want and your vote goes to that person. Here is an example of an election count
View attachment 453616
This is a 5 seater. Quota is set at Total valid votes/(number of seats +1)... This means if get to the quota you are elected and your surplus is then divided out (can explain that more if needed).
First count just counts all votes as normal, from there they discount the bottom ones and share out the next preference still in the race until a quota is reached. When some one gets elected there surplus over the quota is shared.
Big advantage is negative campaigning is far less effective, being positive reaps more as gain. You get elected usually by a lot of peoples second and third preferences. Incumbents don't usually get primaried as you see the bigger parties Fianna Fail and Fine Gail have 3 candidates each. So when elected they try and work for every one.
This also means there is no death districts... In liberal area GOP would looking for the last seat and visa versa...

Senate (possibly)
Run in the same manner but two seats could go up at the same time... So in California Republicans would trying to get the second seat and the Democrats could be looking for a shut out and visa vera in West Virgina...

It is just a thought...

who the fuck are u as a foreigner to suggest a solutioNs? How about I go to Irish message board and tell everyone there how to live their lives? Wouldn’t go over well would it? So I ask again who the fuck are you to “offer solutions?”

This is a discussion board... how about you just consider it as Americans... A large part of this forum has entrenched into camps...

I believe solution I proposed allows voters better choice, the chance for alternative parties to run and to expand the discourse of politics in America.

Rather people trying to see how this effects there party, how would effect their country...
Would this make congress more representative of the people?
Could it create and foster people to get things done rather than dig there heals in and give no ground to the other side?

Note: FU foreigner just exposes you as a weak person that is unable to to discuss issues but only hurl insults... If you think that is better for America, I suggest run in the next election and see how popular your stance is....
By the way this also allows Trump Supporters to have there own party if they are not happy in the GOP or Moderate GOP (that you call RINOs) to find there own party or path.

listen fuckface, no one wants outsiders to tell them how to live. You are one arrogant asshole who thinks your opinion matters. Fuck you and the horse you rode on you fucking piece of dogshit. And take your unsolicited solutions and shove them up your fat ass.

I know that you seemed to be threatened by any new ideas... You find them offensive for some reason...

Luckily US was not built on this, how about you look at what is suggested and make a constructive comment.

fuck off young lad. You’re a hack. You know shit about America and don’t have to live with any of the consequences that come with your suggestions. So fuck you. if Ireland was the standard for living then I would ask for your recommendations, but the US is the standard for living. We’re happy without fucks like you butting in and telling us what’s good for us. we’re fucking number by literally every measure in the world. Worry about your own country. And this is not to be disrespectful to the Irish, many of them are great people, but you’re an asshole.

I own businesses in the US and employee people in US... As an employer who pays taxes I feel I can comment...

How many people do you employ?

 

[BULLDOG]

The point is the Democratic party no longer is trying to satisfy that segment.

I don't know exactly when it happened, but at some point the Democrats went from an American party to straight up subversives bent on dividing and transforming America into who knows what.

In your mind it started when Gingrich decided to throw ethics out the window of the republican party and start relying on lies instead.

Any comment on the OP, Please...

Sure. I was just responding to an idiot. Your OP is a great mental exercise, and there are many parts that I think would be an advantage for the country, but it will never really happen. Our constitution lays out how our elections are conducted, and other that a few minor adjustments now and then, like how and when we are allowed to register, and whether we can mail in our votes, the method we have always used will be the method we will always use.

 

[Rocko]

Who the fuck are

We seem to have hit an impasse politically.... Moderates are are threatened with primaries and compromise is considered evil.

Here is a possible solution.

Congress
Congressional elections would consist of 3-5 seat districts with preference voting. This is very common around the world. This would mean in effect that the two main parties would be running multiple candidates in all districts. Smaller parties and independents could also flourish as they would have better chance at the polls. Each big party has to run a big tent and put up with undesirables, this would mean rather than surrendering the middle ground, extremists in each party would be allow to splinter.
Your vote would would be given to the candidate in your highest preference. If he/she gets eliminated your vote goes to your next choice.
The voter would get more choice and doesn't have to waste there vote on a non viable candidate in the fear that there enemy winning. You vote who you want and your vote goes to that person. Here is an example of an election count
View attachment 453616
This is a 5 seater. Quota is set at Total valid votes/(number of seats +1)... This means if get to the quota you are elected and your surplus is then divided out (can explain that more if needed).
First count just counts all votes as normal, from there they discount the bottom ones and share out the next preference still in the race until a quota is reached. When some one gets elected there surplus over the quota is shared.
Big advantage is negative campaigning is far less effective, being positive reaps more as gain. You get elected usually by a lot of peoples second and third preferences. Incumbents don't usually get primaried as you see the bigger parties Fianna Fail and Fine Gail have 3 candidates each. So when elected they try and work for every one.
This also means there is no death districts... In liberal area GOP would looking for the last seat and visa versa...

Senate (possibly)
Run in the same manner but two seats could go up at the same time... So in California Republicans would trying to get the second seat and the Democrats could be looking for a shut out and visa vera in West Virgina...

It is just a thought...

who the fuck are u as a foreigner to suggest a solutioNs? How about I go to Irish message board and tell everyone there how to live their lives? Wouldn’t go over well would it? So I ask again who the fuck are you to “offer solutions?”

This is a discussion board... how about you just consider it as Americans... A large part of this forum has entrenched into camps...

I believe solution I proposed allows voters better choice, the chance for alternative parties to run and to expand the discourse of politics in America.

Rather people trying to see how this effects there party, how would effect their country...
Would this make congress more representative of the people?
Could it create and foster people to get things done rather than dig there heals in and give no ground to the other side?

Note: FU foreigner just exposes you as a weak person that is unable to to discuss issues but only hurl insults... If you think that is better for America, I suggest run in the next election and see how popular your stance is....
By the way this also allows Trump Supporters to have there own party if they are not happy in the GOP or Moderate GOP (that you call RINOs) to find there own party or path.

listen fuckface, no one wants outsiders to tell them how to live. You are one arrogant asshole who thinks your opinion matters. Fuck you and the horse you rode on you fucking piece of dogshit. And take your unsolicited solutions and shove them up your fat ass.

I know that you seemed to be threatened by any new ideas... You find them offensive for some reason...

Luckily US was not built on this, how about you look at what is suggested and make a constructive comment.

fuck off young lad. You’re a hack. You know shit about America and don’t have to live with any of the consequences that come with your suggestions. So fuck you. if Ireland was the standard for living then I would ask for your recommendations, but the US is the standard for living. We’re happy without fucks like you butting in and telling us what’s good for us. we’re fucking number by literally every measure in the world. Worry about your own country. And this is not to be disrespectful to the Irish, many of them are great people, but you’re an asshole.

I own businesses in the US and employee people in US... As an employer who pays taxes I feel I can comment...

How many people do you employ?

well I feel you don’t. 1) Trust me I pay more taxes than your piker ass. 2) I invest in many countries. I don’t tell the people in those countries how to run their countries, because that would make me an asshole. Are u understanding you out of touch asshole?

 

[CowboyTed]

The point is the Democratic party no longer is trying to satisfy that segment.

I don't know exactly when it happened, but at some point the Democrats went from an American party to straight up subversives bent on dividing and transforming America into who knows what.

In your mind it started when Gingrich decided to throw ethics out the window of the republican party and start relying on lies instead.

Any comment on the OP, Please...

Sure. I was just responding to an idiot. Your OP is a great mental exercise, and there are many parts that I think would be an advantage for the country, but it will never really happen. Our constitution lays out how our elections are conducted, and other that a few minor adjustments now and then, like how and when we are allowed to register, and whether we can mail in our votes, the method we have always used will be the method we will always use.

Feasibility is always an issue which I agree with but the US if nothing has shown ability to make great changes when they want too.

First thing is to figure out the path... Personally I think that there is a lot of GOP who relish the chance to get out of the position they are in right now.

Changing the constitution could not as hard as we think if you have Americans that see a way that is better for all...

The advantage of seeing this, is we can see this in action in a vast majority of first world countries all over world.

 

[Rocko]

The point is the Democratic party no longer is trying to satisfy that segment.

I don't know exactly when it happened, but at some point the Democrats went from an American party to straight up subversives bent on dividing and transforming America into who knows what.

In your mind it started when Gingrich decided to throw ethics out the window of the republican party and start relying on lies instead.

Any comment on the OP, Please...

Sure. I was just responding to an idiot. Your OP is a great mental exercise, and there are many parts that I think would be an advantage for the country, but it will never really happen. Our constitution lays out how our elections are conducted, and other that a few minor adjustments now and then, like how and when we are allowed to register, and whether we can mail in our votes, the method we have always used will be the method we will always use.

Feasibility is always an issue which I agree with but the US if nothing has shown ability to make great changes when they want too.

First thing is to figure out the path... Personally I think that there is a lot of GOP who relish the chance to get out of the position they are in right now.

Changing the constitution could not as hard as we think if you have Americans that see a way that is better for all...

The advantage of seeing this, is we can see this in action in a vast majority of first world countries all over world.

listen why do you give a fuck about America’s constitution? How does this affect you personally? Be very specific lad.

 

[two_iron]

I suggest the real Republicans leave their party and become Democrats and defeat the Trumpet Party.

Yeah.... and we're going to start watching little girls pee and killing babies to sell their parts....

Fucking animal.

 

[Rocko]

The young lad has disappeared

 

[BULLDOG]

The point is the Democratic party no longer is trying to satisfy that segment.

I don't know exactly when it happened, but at some point the Democrats went from an American party to straight up subversives bent on dividing and transforming America into who knows what.

In your mind it started when Gingrich decided to throw ethics out the window of the republican party and start relying on lies instead.

Any comment on the OP, Please...

Sure. I was just responding to an idiot. Your OP is a great mental exercise, and there are many parts that I think would be an advantage for the country, but it will never really happen. Our constitution lays out how our elections are conducted, and other that a few minor adjustments now and then, like how and when we are allowed to register, and whether we can mail in our votes, the method we have always used will be the method we will always use.

Feasibility is always an issue which I agree with but the US if nothing has shown ability to make great changes when they want too.

First thing is to figure out the path... Personally I think that there is a lot of GOP who relish the chance to get out of the position they are in right now.

Changing the constitution could not as hard as we think if you have Americans that see a way that is better for all...

The advantage of seeing this, is we can see this in action in a vast majority of first world countries all over world.

Again, it's a great problem to work on, but i can imagine the claims, truthful and untruthful, that would be made about such a change. The country just wouldnt go for it. Perhaps far off into the future after we have solved all our current problems. Just my opinion, and it is probably worth what I charged you for it. Not bad reasoning on your part though.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Politics is supposed to be at a perpetual impasse.

If everyone is moving in one direction, that is the path to totalitarianism.

A non sequitur, right off the bat. Nicely done. Nobody is suggesting that sort of monolith. Just that there would be MORE cooperation and more would get done. And, instead of one party ramming through everything by reconciliation orr EO, (where they get anything they want, totalitarian-style, barring the courts striking it down), there would be bipartisan interest in better representing more of their constituencies. I.E., incentive for centrism and for more governance for the people instead of for the few.

 

[CowboyTed]

Who the fuck are

We seem to have hit an impasse politically.... Moderates are are threatened with primaries and compromise is considered evil.

Here is a possible solution.

Congress
Congressional elections would consist of 3-5 seat districts with preference voting. This is very common around the world. This would mean in effect that the two main parties would be running multiple candidates in all districts. Smaller parties and independents could also flourish as they would have better chance at the polls. Each big party has to run a big tent and put up with undesirables, this would mean rather than surrendering the middle ground, extremists in each party would be allow to splinter.
Your vote would would be given to the candidate in your highest preference. If he/she gets eliminated your vote goes to your next choice.
The voter would get more choice and doesn't have to waste there vote on a non viable candidate in the fear that there enemy winning. You vote who you want and your vote goes to that person. Here is an example of an election count
View attachment 453616
This is a 5 seater. Quota is set at Total valid votes/(number of seats +1)... This means if get to the quota you are elected and your surplus is then divided out (can explain that more if needed).
First count just counts all votes as normal, from there they discount the bottom ones and share out the next preference still in the race until a quota is reached. When some one gets elected there surplus over the quota is shared.
Big advantage is negative campaigning is far less effective, being positive reaps more as gain. You get elected usually by a lot of peoples second and third preferences. Incumbents don't usually get primaried as you see the bigger parties Fianna Fail and Fine Gail have 3 candidates each. So when elected they try and work for every one.
This also means there is no death districts... In liberal area GOP would looking for the last seat and visa versa...

Senate (possibly)
Run in the same manner but two seats could go up at the same time... So in California Republicans would trying to get the second seat and the Democrats could be looking for a shut out and visa vera in West Virgina...

It is just a thought...

who the fuck are u as a foreigner to suggest a solutioNs? How about I go to Irish message board and tell everyone there how to live their lives? Wouldn’t go over well would it? So I ask again who the fuck are you to “offer solutions?”

This is a discussion board... how about you just consider it as Americans... A large part of this forum has entrenched into camps...

I believe solution I proposed allows voters better choice, the chance for alternative parties to run and to expand the discourse of politics in America.

Rather people trying to see how this effects there party, how would effect their country...
Would this make congress more representative of the people?
Could it create and foster people to get things done rather than dig there heals in and give no ground to the other side?

Note: FU foreigner just exposes you as a weak person that is unable to to discuss issues but only hurl insults... If you think that is better for America, I suggest run in the next election and see how popular your stance is....
By the way this also allows Trump Supporters to have there own party if they are not happy in the GOP or Moderate GOP (that you call RINOs) to find there own party or path.

listen fuckface, no one wants outsiders to tell them how to live. You are one arrogant asshole who thinks your opinion matters. Fuck you and the horse you rode on you fucking piece of dogshit. And take your unsolicited solutions and shove them up your fat ass.

I know that you seemed to be threatened by any new ideas... You find them offensive for some reason...

Luckily US was not built on this, how about you look at what is suggested and make a constructive comment.

fuck off young lad. You’re a hack. You know shit about America and don’t have to live with any of the consequences that come with your suggestions. So fuck you. if Ireland was the standard for living then I would ask for your recommendations, but the US is the standard for living. We’re happy without fucks like you butting in and telling us what’s good for us. we’re fucking number by literally every measure in the world. Worry about your own country. And this is not to be disrespectful to the Irish, many of them are great people, but you’re an asshole.

I own businesses in the US and employee people in US... As an employer who pays taxes I feel I can comment...

How many people do you employ?

well I feel you don’t. 1) Trust me I pay more taxes than your piker ass. 2) I invest in many countries. I don’t tell the people in those countries how to run their countries, because that would make me an asshole. Are u understanding you out of touch asshole?

1) You haven't a clue how much American taxes I pay
2) I am not telling you how US is to be run... I am offering an idea, how about look at it and actually engage...

Why are you so fearful of a new idea...

 

[fncceo]

Just that there would be MORE cooperation and more would get done.

What on Earth would we want to them to get done? They already do too much.

 

[BluesLegend]

Lets divide the country and the leftist freaks can do whatever they want in their half, kill millions of babies, invent 140 genders, have at it.

 

[daveman]

I suggest the real Republicans leave their party and become Democrats and defeat the Trumpet Party.

I suggest Democrats change their loyalty from their party to the United States.

That's not going to happen, however.

You're right. It will never happen The republicans changed their loyalty to the United States to loyalty to their party, and look how fucked up they became.

Ahhh, the classic "NO U!!!" gambit. Devastating, and used with such effectiveness in second grades everywhere.

 

[CowboyTed]

The point is the Democratic party no longer is trying to satisfy that segment.

I don't know exactly when it happened, but at some point the Democrats went from an American party to straight up subversives bent on dividing and transforming America into who knows what.

In your mind it started when Gingrich decided to throw ethics out the window of the republican party and start relying on lies instead.

Any comment on the OP, Please...

Sure. I was just responding to an idiot. Your OP is a great mental exercise, and there are many parts that I think would be an advantage for the country, but it will never really happen. Our constitution lays out how our elections are conducted, and other that a few minor adjustments now and then, like how and when we are allowed to register, and whether we can mail in our votes, the method we have always used will be the method we will always use.

Feasibility is always an issue which I agree with but the US if nothing has shown ability to make great changes when they want too.

First thing is to figure out the path... Personally I think that there is a lot of GOP who relish the chance to get out of the position they are in right now.

Changing the constitution could not as hard as we think if you have Americans that see a way that is better for all...

The advantage of seeing this, is we can see this in action in a vast majority of first world countries all over world.

Again, it's a great problem to work on, but i can imagine the claims, truthful and untruthful, that would be made about such a change. The country just wouldnt go for it. Perhaps far off into the future after we have solved all our current problems. Just my opinion, and it is probably worth what I charged you for it. Not bad reasoning on your part though.

Bulldog, strangely I am going to disagree with you on this one... I normally don't disagree with you much.

I think this might be the time... Crisis can breed opportunity....

There is a number of the GOP moderates who must be privately disgusted with what has happened and do love their country. While this gives some power to the more extreme levels of their party it would mean they have independence to act in the best interest of the country and not fear the primaries.
Imagine the freedom of individual thought they could have.... There fight in election could be with a moderate democrat rather than cowtowing to trump supporter....

 

[daveman]

I suggest the real Republicans leave their party and become Democrats and defeat the Trumpet Party.

I suggest Democrats change their loyalty from their party to the United States.

That's not going to happen, however.

You're right. It will never happen The republicans changed their loyalty to the United States to loyalty to their party, and look how fucked up they became.

The republicans changed their loyalty to the United States to loyalty to their party,

No more than the Democrats did.

Fer Gawds sake, they backed a career politician, whos sole achievement is longevity.

I guess fox forgot to mention all the great things about Joe, didn't they? Oh well. He won without fox viewers anyway.

No one has mentioned any great things about Joe. All everyone's said is "HE'S NOT TRUMP!!!"

You voted for who you were ordered to vote for.