Give an example of when man's ethics and morality are superior to Gawds

Carla_Danger

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I'll go first. This example is pretty obvious. SLAVERY--Gawd approves of slavery, but men condemn slavery. We even fought a war over it because it's repulsive.

When people claim they get their morals from reading the Bible, I'm thinking REALLY? How so? I mean, we are way ahead concerning ethics and morality...way ahead.

Okay, your turn.
 

Luddly Neddite

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If "god" is really a god then he/she doesn't have ethics or morals. And, since the god that christians say they believe in did such things as kill his child and drown every human and living creature on the planet, he is anything BUT ethical or moral - at least, as far as I understand those words to mean in my own life.

The bible was written by human beings who believed in some pretty horrendous things that we now believe to be very immoral and unethical. Or, again, I should say that I do not believe them to ethical or moral.

Interesting question but I can't think of a thing.
 

emilynghiem

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Ppbbfftt
Politicians and lawyers claim to follow and defend laws.
Do you think all they do is Constitutional?

Carla_Danger Why would you assume that just because someone interprets the
Bible (or the words of Mohammad) or whatever to be God, that isn't THEM, and not God.

Or is that your point? That it isn't God it's THEM, then I agree people can get crazy ideas and SAY it's God.

How about when God told Pat Robertson or whoever to raise 8 million dollars or he would die?
Remember that?

Hitler and his regime thought they were doing God's work.
The Zionists fighting for Armageddon and the Jihadists fighting for Jihad both invoke God's wrath on others.

Carla do you want to call Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq
a calling from God to do so? because it did not respect traditional
laws governing nations going to war, and the effects on the Iraqi people who were NOT
in unity with any act of war. Normally there are laws and agreements between nations.

Does that count as an example of what you are looking for?

=====================================================================

On the other hand, to be fair, when my friend Olivia gets messages from God to do things,
they are good for others and a sacrifice on her part, not sacrificing other people.

for example, she got a command from God to go buy groceries (of certain brands)
and go bring them to the door of some place and some person she'd never met.
God ordered her to do this, to go knock on some strange door and ask for "Charles" or whoever.
She obeyed out of her commitment to obey God.

And sure enough the man who answered had been praying that very moment.
He was distressed he had no money to buy what he needed for his family.
So he prayed to God that he didn't know if God was there, but if you are,
please show me a sign.

And God answered that prayer by sending an obedient servant to go to his door
with the VERY brand of groceries he normally buys. He recognized this right away
that only God could connect the prayers of people who never met each other.

People are not psychic, and not magic mind-readers. Only God could know his
needs and tell them to someone else on that level of prayer. So the man
accepted this as a sign from God that prayers are answered, received Jesus and made peace with the Lord.
 

emilynghiem

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OK Carla_Danger I'll try this

According to the Christians, all life is precious from the womb, and only God can determine life and death.
Abortion is murder.

But according to Constitutional laws of man, man has free will and free exercise of religion.
Govt cannot be abused to impose on beliefs, but spiritual decisions must be made by free choice.
constitutional laws guard LIBERTY even if this means someone having the liberty to choose abortion
without being imposed upon by "religious faith-based arguments" not proven to THEM.

(it can be proven to others, but still remains faith based unless all people AGREE to the proof)

thus the defense of prochoice is putting man's freedom by man-made secular laws,
over the right to life of the unborn child and the FAITH in that as a human life.

How's that?
 

MisterBeale

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Genocide, rape, sacrificing children....come on, you can think of something! :D
Humans allow the prideful, disobedient, irreverent, heretical, sodomites, and the generally morally infirm to continue breathing. God would strike your kind down. :lmao: I suggest you work on your resentment towards those who have faith. Try it, you might like it.

 

Agit8r

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God/religion are just a construct for people to avoid responsibility. It should not be surprising if the things that get emphasized by religious folks are often those things most contrary to our natural consciences.
 

emilynghiem

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God/religion are just a construct for people to avoid responsibility. It should not be surprising if the things that get emphasized by religious folks are often those things most contrary to our natural consciences.
What about the example I gave that people who believe in defending the right to life of unborn souls.
Just because our civil laws defend the liberty to choose without having faith-based beliefs imposed by govt,
does not mean that devalues the life or disregards the damage incurred by abortion.

Secular law merely addresses and defends against penalizing someone without due process of law
that could not be applied without violating other rights.
 
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Carla_Danger

Carla_Danger

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If "god" is really a god then he/she doesn't have ethics or morals. And, since the god that christians say they believe in did such things as kill his child and drown every human and living creature on the planet, he is anything BUT ethical or moral - at least, as far as I understand those words to mean in my own life.

The bible was written by human beings who believed in some pretty horrendous things that we now believe to be very immoral and unethical. Or, again, I should say that I do not believe them to ethical or moral.

Interesting question but I can't think of a thing.

Have you ever had anyone suggest to you that Gawd is your conscience? I have. That is completely false. What's stopping me from running out and murdering people, since no one is minding the store? People who believe in Gawd murder, they do it whether Gawd exist or not. We are social animals who have evolved morality, because we've learned that communities help us exist. If you ever get a chance, read The Moral Animal. I think you'd really enjoy it. :p

(I didn't mean to sound preachy at you, it's just an interesting book...LOL!)


 
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Carla_Danger

Carla_Danger

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Genocide, rape, sacrificing children....come on, you can think of something! :D
Humans allow the prideful, disobedient, irreverent, heretical, sodomites, and the generally morally infirm to continue breathing. God would strike your kind down. :lmao: I suggest you work on your resentment towards those who have faith. Try it, you might like it.

You just gave a great example of why our morals and ethics are superior, for those who have evolved, that is.

Gawd would strike down your kind.

People know better than to strike "your kind" down, over posting opinions on a message board. We believe in freedom of speech and the individual right to express, promote, pursue, and defend our ideas. You, on the other hand, and the Gawd you've created, not so much. I suggest you work on your resentment and open up your mind.
 
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Carla_Danger

Carla_Danger

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OK Carla_Danger I'll try this

According to the Christians, all life is precious from the womb, and only God can determine life and death.
Abortion is murder.

But according to Constitutional laws of man, man has free will and free exercise of religion.
Govt cannot be abused to impose on beliefs, but spiritual decisions must be made by free choice.
constitutional laws guard LIBERTY even if this means someone having the liberty to choose abortion
without being imposed upon by "religious faith-based arguments" not proven to THEM.

(it can be proven to others, but still remains faith based unless all people AGREE to the proof)

thus the defense of prochoice is putting man's freedom by man-made secular laws,
over the right to life of the unborn child and the FAITH in that as a human life.

How's that?

I guess that means you are against the death penalty?
 

emilynghiem

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OK here's one and sorry for the sarcasm

What if God said let there be the Constitution, where leaders declaring We the People make statutory the Natural Laws Given by God on inherent liberties that humanity needs to live free and fulfilling lives,
and limiting the duties of govt to just those which are authorized by the People.

And these People join in prayer for wisdom to pen the words, and ratify laws that make up the US Constitution including the Bill of Rights that was required as a condition for certain States to sign on, or they wouldn't agree.

And now, by "man's wisdom" mandates are enforced to MAKE people to submit their liberty and free choice to the whims and beliefs of Federal Govt that magically know better what they need and how they should manage it.

Never mind the NATURAL means of health care, and spiritual wellness, the Laws of Nature on finding and healing the cause of diseases. Never mind the free and charitable means of providing health care to anyone in need.

Because MAN has more knowledge of using pharmaceuticals and expensive procedures made even more inaccessible due to legal liabilities, corporate insurance interests and govt bureaucracies,
then the natural systems of health care and free choice consistent with man's nature and need to be free
are overridden by MAN'S need to impose political control on these natural processes that are normally free choice.
 

emilynghiem

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OK Carla_Danger I'll try this

According to the Christians, all life is precious from the womb, and only God can determine life and death.
Abortion is murder.

But according to Constitutional laws of man, man has free will and free exercise of religion.
Govt cannot be abused to impose on beliefs, but spiritual decisions must be made by free choice.
constitutional laws guard LIBERTY even if this means someone having the liberty to choose abortion
without being imposed upon by "religious faith-based arguments" not proven to THEM.

(it can be proven to others, but still remains faith based unless all people AGREE to the proof)

thus the defense of prochoice is putting man's freedom by man-made secular laws,
over the right to life of the unborn child and the FAITH in that as a human life.

How's that?
I guess that means you are against the death penalty?
Yes, I believe that by following higher laws of Restorative Justice,
criminal sickness, crime and murder can be prevented by correcting problems early,
and capital punishment will become a thing of the past.

There should be meaningful restitution proportional to the crime,
otherwise once someone commits enough crimes to get the death penalty
or life in prison, there is nothing to stop them from committing further crimes.

By holding people accountable for corrections and restitution, then there is motivation to prevent crime
and reduce the damages so it is less cost to deal with.

NOTE: I believe in keeping the legal option of the death penalty, similar to abortion,
and not banning either one unless all people consent to that. these get into faith based arguments, so they remain free choice of the people. Govt cannot force religious or faith based arguments on people, while the people have the right to defend their beliefs from infringement.
 

MisterBeale

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Genocide, rape, sacrificing children....come on, you can think of something! :D
Humans allow the prideful, disobedient, irreverent, heretical, sodomites, and the generally morally infirm to continue breathing. God would strike your kind down. :lmao: I suggest you work on your resentment towards those who have faith. Try it, you might like it.

You just gave a great example of why our morals and ethics are superior, for those who have evolved, that is.

Gawd would strike down your kind.

People know better than to strike "your kind" down, over posting opinions on a message board. We believe in freedom of speech and the individual right to express, promote, pursue, and defend our ideas. You, on the other hand, and the Gawd you've created, not so much.
lol. You clearly didn't get my tongue in cheek response. I was having a bit of fun with you.

You're insecurities, judgements and fear are showing. It isn't in my power to create spirit dear child. That's inconsequential though.



I find it amusing that it is you who think that you are the "evolved" one.

Be assured, your role in this is just as important as those who are enlightened. You are just unaware of your role.

 

emilynghiem

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God/religion are just a construct for people to avoid responsibility. It should not be surprising if the things that get emphasized by religious folks are often those things most contrary to our natural consciences.
Forgiveness can go against people's natural thinking.
But it is often necessary in order for victims of crimes and injustice
to HEAL so they don't cause further injury to themselves from holding on to rage or other negative emotions.

Forgiveness does not change the wrongs, and it still means the law must be applied
and any debts or damages paid. It is for the health and healing of the victim,
but this tends to sound counter-intuitive and can go against man's logic and idea of justice.
 
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Carla_Danger

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OK Carla_Danger I'll try this

According to the Christians, all life is precious from the womb, and only God can determine life and death.
Abortion is murder.

But according to Constitutional laws of man, man has free will and free exercise of religion.
Govt cannot be abused to impose on beliefs, but spiritual decisions must be made by free choice.
constitutional laws guard LIBERTY even if this means someone having the liberty to choose abortion
without being imposed upon by "religious faith-based arguments" not proven to THEM.

(it can be proven to others, but still remains faith based unless all people AGREE to the proof)

thus the defense of prochoice is putting man's freedom by man-made secular laws,
over the right to life of the unborn child and the FAITH in that as a human life.

How's that?


Is that according to Christians, or according to the Bible?...because I don't remember reading anything about abortions in the Bible.
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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I'll go first. This example is pretty obvious. SLAVERY--Gawd approves of slavery, but men condemn slavery. We even fought a war over it because it's repulsive.

When people claim they get their morals from reading the Bible, I'm thinking REALLY? How so? I mean, we are way ahead concerning ethics and morality...way ahead.

Okay, your turn.
Particularly when you consider the fact that the bible was written by men, not a 'god' that doesn't exist.
 

sealybobo

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I'll go first. This example is pretty obvious. SLAVERY--Gawd approves of slavery, but men condemn slavery. We even fought a war over it because it's repulsive.

When people claim they get their morals from reading the Bible, I'm thinking REALLY? How so? I mean, we are way ahead concerning ethics and morality...way ahead.

Okay, your turn.
Any atheist american would have stopped those planes on 9 11 if we could have. God could have but didn't. But when 1 baby in a million survives a crash god gets the credit.

I also would never condemn anyone to burn in hell for eternity. Not even 1000. Especially if I had the power to heal their sick brain. And he's responsible for making us this way.
 

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