CDZ Ginsburg was right , it was about population control.

Lysistrata

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Children who are unwanted, unloved, whose mothers are not prepared to mentally or materially raise a child, obviously have a greater tendency to fall into crime. The statistics demonstrate this. (Often such children have no fathers as they also did not want the child.) Of course that is not the reason the women’s movement fought for control over their reproductive life, any more than it is a reasonit fought for the vote. After abortions, women often have loved and wanted children later, when they are ready.
Bottom line, can't feed them don't breed them, can't accept responsibility taking care of them then be be responsible before conceiving them

It's REALLY that simple
Stop BSing. Being responsible before conception is what birth control is all about. From what you say, people who don't want another child or don't want a child yet should just give up on their marriages and long-term relationships and live celibate lives.
 

Thunderbird

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Sanger was a racist and endorsed the KKK, it's been discussed at least 20 times on here. Give it a rest
Your own ignorance is showing. You may have discussed it “20 times” before only with ignoramuses here, not with me. I have already discussed this here and elsewhere. The Klan was one of the most powerful organizations in the country in the 1920s. Margaret Sanger never “endorsed the KKK,” she despised it, but her purpose was to reach all classes of women in all parts of the country, and that meant speaking on birth control wherever she was invited, raising the issues of women’s rights. She did once or twice openly speak before women’s auxiliaries of the KKK. She was just as willing to speak to black women who supported Marcus Garvey’s movement. She spoke to assemblies of the richest WASP women and to the poorest of every party and denomination, as she was convinced it was only in this way that she could win against the powerful Catholic Church (she was herself Irish Catholic) and other backward forces that wanted to keep women ignorant, pregnant and enslaved as mere breeding machines.
You have to be a real dope to still defend Sanger. She pushed for coercive eugenics measures.


Paine do you deny Sanger favored coercion and eugenics?
 
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mudwhistle

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A 1973 Supreme Court decision, Roe v. Wade, legalized abortion by a 7-2 vote. Six of the seven justices in the majority were Republican appointees. The only Democrat appointee, Byron White, voted against Roe v. Wade.

In fact, in every year since 1969, the United States Supreme Court has been controlled by a majority of Republican-appointed judges.

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6 republicans were wrong on the supreme court. I find it hypocrisy if the Supreme Court rules a ban on abortion or birth control pills.
Sorry......you've already got your abortions.
This fight is over the 2nd Amendment really.
Along with several other Amendments the Dems want to nullify.
 

Thunderbird

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Children who are unwanted, unloved, whose mothers are not prepared to mentally or materially raise a child, obviously have a greater tendency to fall into crime. The statistics demonstrate this. (Often such children have no fathers as they also did not want the child.) Of course that is not the reason the women’s movement fought for control over their reproductive life, any more than it is a reasonit fought for the vote. After abortions, women often have loved and wanted children later, when they are ready.
1) Have you ever heard of adoption?
2) Is it right to demand the death penalty for babies because you feel they may commit crimes in the future?

Look at the facts: More on the ‘Abortion Cuts Crime’ Debate | National Review
 
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SassyIrishLass

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Children who are unwanted, unloved, whose mothers are not prepared to mentally or materially raise a child, obviously have a greater tendency to fall into crime. The statistics demonstrate this. (Often such children have no fathers as they also did not want the child.) Of course that is not the reason the women’s movement fought for control over their reproductive life, any more than it is a reasonit fought for the vote. After abortions, women often have loved and wanted children later, when they are ready.
Bottom line, can't feed them don't breed them, can't accept responsibility taking care of them then be be responsible before conceiving them

It's REALLY that simple
Stop BSing. Being responsible before conception is what birth control is all about. From what you say, people who don't want another child or don't want a child yet should just give up on their marriages and long-term relationships and live celibate lives.
I never said that..you did.

Good freaking grief.
 

Thunderbird

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Paine do you deny Sanger favored coercion and eugenics?
See my comment # 16.
You call Sanger “heroic” even as you acknowledge “she at times worked with racists like the KKK or spoke sympathetically about eugenics programs in Germany”!

Do you deny Sanger favored coercion and eugenics? A yes or no would be great.

Why not show basic humanity and condemn Sanger?
 
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Quasar44

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The abortion-rights movement did work with population controllers and borrow from their argumentative strategies. Some population controllers did have ties to the eugenic legal reform movement, and population programs at times focused on the fertility of poor, non-white individuals. Nonetheless, arguments conflating the movements for legal abortion, population control, and eugenics are misleading. Indeed, as we shall see, Zero Population Growth, Inc. (ZPG), the only major population-control organization to lobby for abortion reform before Roe, tended to focus on population control within the white American middle class.

Snip


Similar claims found favor with a broad spectrum of politicians, judges, and members of the public, and influential members in the population-control movement endorsed the repeal of abortion bans.78
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The crime rate was again blamed on the blacks and less of them would seem to be ok.
I support abortion only in the black community
 

Tom Paine 1949

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Why not show basic humanity and condemn Sanger?
Because Sanger was trying to give women the tools they needed, the tools poor and abused women in particular needed, so they and their children could live lives that were more human.

You are like the fools who say I must condemn all our Founding Fathers because some of them were slave owners and others made an alliance with slaveowners for the greater good. I stand in the tradition of Thomas Paine, but will even defend from cheap slurs and out-of-context calumny a great and heroic slaveowner and Indian fighter like George Washington, because I understand what he was ... and what he was not.

I know you are used to asking stupid “gotcha” questions. I usually just ignore them.
 

Coyote

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Children who are unwanted, unloved, whose mothers are not prepared to mentally or materially raise a child, obviously have a greater tendency to fall into crime. The statistics demonstrate this. (Often such children have no fathers as they also did not want the child.) Of course that is not the reason the women’s movement fought for control over their reproductive life, any more than it is a reasonit fought for the vote. After abortions, women often have loved and wanted children later, when they are ready.
Bottom line, can't feed them don't breed them, can't accept responsibility taking care of them then be be responsible before conceiving them It's REALLY that simple
It may be that simple today for you, but it certainly wasn’t true for poor Irish women before the sale of birth control was legalized and made widely available. Poor working-class women in those days, whether in marriage or not, were regularly raped and/or forced to bear children, whether they wanted them or not.

This may be too personal a question, in which case I apologize beforehand, but have you or your female friends ever used birth control? Are you opposed to their sale? If not, you (like all of us) should show a little appreciation for the struggles and sacrifices of women like Margaret Sanger.
Birth control ≠ abortion on demand.

Sanger was a fucking eugenicist ghoul.
Sanger did not support abortion.
 

Coyote

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Margaret Sanger was not pro eugenics or abortions.
That is absolute and utter BS.

I suspect you know that and are intentional posting misleading information.
Do some research. Sanger felt birth control would reduce the need for abortions, which were both dangerous, and a common means of birth control in her era.
 

John T. Ford

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Do some research. Sanger felt birth control would reduce the need for abortions, which were both dangerous, and a common means of birth control in her era.
Sanger was a Leftist Racist.

Sanger supported Eugenics.

Sanger wanted to rid the world of Black folk as much as Hitler wanted to rid the world of Jews.

It does not surprise anyone that you would defend that kind of insanity.
 

Tom Paine 1949

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Mod Edit -removed non-CDZ sentence.

John T. Ford has just been nailed by Coyote in comment #54 for reprinting a meme attributing a quote written by White Supremacist Tom Metzger to Margaret Sanger.

Does he apologize? No.

Does he say he simply made an unintentional error? No.

Mod Edit -removed non-CDZ sentence.

But there is nothing to be done. Just remember ... learn ... and think.
 
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Coyote

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Do some research. Sanger felt birth control would reduce the need for abortions, which were both dangerous, and a common means of birth control in her era.
Sanger was a Leftist Racist.

Sanger supported Eugenics.

Sanger wanted to rid the world of Black folk as much as Hitler wanted to rid the world of Jews.

It does not surprise anyone that you would defend that kind of insanity.
That has been refuted.

...more to the point...her movement made birth control legal, available and affordable.

Why do you oppose that?
 

John T. Ford

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This is CDZ, or else I would call John T. Ford exactly what he is.

John T. Ford has just been nailed by Coyote in comment #54 for reprinting a meme attributing a quote written by White Supremacist Tom Metzger to Margaret Sanger.

Does he apologize? No.

Does he say he simply made an unintentional error? No.

Instead he doubles down with more slander, calumny and lies.

This is the sort of crap that makes a decent human being sick to his stomach, and vitiates the purpose of the CDZ.

But there is nothing to be done. Just remember ... learn ... and think.
No ....

I don't apologize.

I will give ... now ... that that is probably not a quote from Sanger.

But, it does not change the fact about who Sanger was.

So celebrate your little victory.

It does not change the fact that Sanger was a Racist who supported Eugenics and wanted to wipe Black people off the face of this planet.

Misquoting Sanger does not change this fact ...
 

John T. Ford

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That has been refuted.

...more to the point...her movement made birth control legal, available and affordable.

Why do you oppose that?
Why do you ignore her Racist motives ....

You really don't have to answer that.

We know who the Racist Left is and what they support.
 

John T. Ford

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Ok, let’s switch this around a bit, going by what Thomas Paine said in an earlier post, since no amount of evidence will change your mind.

Do condemn and hate George Washington?
Sorry Coyote ...

I'm not interested in your Lil' Rabbit Holes ....

The reality is you guys are supporting one of the biggest racists of the 20th Century.


Right up there with Hitler .....
 

Tom Paine 1949

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Sanger was a Racist who ... wanted to wipe Black people off the face of this planet.
This lie is truly Orwellian in scope. Even the slightest acquaintance with Margaret Sanger’s life history would show this to be false and slanderous:


W. E. B. Du Bois served on the board of Sanger's Harlem clinic

Sanger worked with African American leaders and professionals who saw a need for birth control in their communities. In 1929, James H. Hubert, a black social worker and the leader of New York's Urban League, asked Sanger to open a clinic in Harlem. Sanger secured funding ... and opened the clinic, staffed with black doctors, in 1930. The clinic was directed by a 15-member advisory board consisting of black doctors, nurses, clergy, journalists, and social workers. The clinic was publicized in the African-American press as well as in black churches, and it received the approval of W. E. B. Du Bois, the co-founder of the NAACP and the editor of its magazine, The Crisis. Sanger did not tolerate bigotry among her staff, nor would she tolerate any refusal to work within interracial projects. Sanger's work with minorities earned praise from Martin Luther King, Jr., in his 1966 acceptance speech for the Margaret Sanger award.[79]

 
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Turtlesoup

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Do some research. Sanger felt birth control would reduce the need for abortions, which were both dangerous, and a common means of birth control in her era.
Sanger was a Leftist Racist.

Sanger supported Eugenics.

Sanger wanted to rid the world of Black folk as much as Hitler wanted to rid the world of Jews.

It does not surprise anyone that you would defend that kind of insanity.
No she wasnt...she and her family were activists............they saw women especially black women trapped literally by their kids into bad abusive marriages. Having a bunch of kids kept the women, especially black ones, in bad relationships and kept them in poverty with no chance to get out. Remember her time was before welfare-----and before women could leave abusive relationship which lead to the women and the kids being abused. She and the others reasoned that if a woman had fewer children---that she would stand a better chance of being able to get out of a bad marriage and finding a job that would pay enough to feed her and her fewer kids. It is much easier to leave a bad relationship if you have 0,1, or 2 kids verses having 4, 5, 6, 7 or more kids.
 

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