Gaza Genocide: 67% Gap Between What Elected Democrats and Their Voters Believe

[JoeB131]

Notice he doesn’t mention the Palestinians who were shot to death in front of their family Wait… I’m wrong. I remember their trials

Well, that's what the Zionists claim happened.

Not sure why you think that we are responsible for what Hamas does. We aren't funding Hamas like we fund Israel.

 

[Shusha]

Um, most Western governments have condemned what Israel does.

Ironic, since most Western governments have the same or similar laws. They just aren't currently under the constant threat of, and actual commission of, terrorist attacks. If they were, I'd imagine those laws would swiftly be enacted.

 

[USAF 2023]

they don't sound like Americans to me. I specifically asked you to name AMERICANS who have been arrested and put on trial without any charges or evidence.

But just for fun.

Imad Qawassmeh

Qawasameh tribe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Qawasameh tribe (Arabic: القواسمة, also spelled: Qawasmeh or Kawasmeh in English), is a major clan primarily based in Hebron, with roughly 10,000 members. Although many of the Qawasmeh were originally pro-peace moderates and supporters of a two-state solution, they were radicalised. One tribe faction, numbering several hundred, dominates Hamas in Hebron and is a radical opposition faction within Hamas, which frequently sabotages Hamas cease fires with bombings and attacks, provoking Israeli retaliation.

On October 13, 2004, Imad Qawasameh was arrested by IDF forces, after intelligence was provided by the Shin Bet. According to witnesses, Imad surrendered immediately after an IDF Caterpillar D9 armoured bulldozer started to demolish his house.

In 2011, the IDF broke into Omar Qawasameh's home, put a gun to his wife's head and shot him dead in his sleep. Subsequently, the Israeli army released a statement acknowledging the Qawasameh killing was unintended. An Israeli military spokesman told the AFP news agency: "There is no indication that [al-Qawasmeh] was involved in any terror activity at any stage and therefore we regret the incident."

That ‘s not true. He killed 16 People
If these guys were so ******* dangerous, why exchange them for hostages?

Now you know why there was an exchange There are many others

 

[Shusha]

without charges? Without legal representation?

Yep. Under judicial review.

 

[USAF 2023]

Well, that's what the Zionists claim happened.

Not sure why you think that we are responsible for what Hamas does. We aren't funding Hamas like we fund Israel.

You’re the one who mentions how “ unjust “ the Israeli legal system is. Maybe that’s what Israel should do. After all, Hamas is never condemned

 

[JoeB131]

Now you know why there was an exchange There are many others

Why are you adding text I didn't say?

Again, if the guy is dangerous, you charge him with a crime, put him on trial, and convict him.

You don't hold him as bargaining chip and trade him for hostages.

Unless throwing him in with a bunch of truly innocent people gives you plausible deniability.

 

[Shusha]

Right. So here's the problem with that. Israel is illegally occupying Gaza and the West Bank, and treating the people there like second class citizens in their own land.

Wrong. Israel is not occupying any foreign territory. She has an unsettled sovereign claim to Judea and Samaria and she is currently administrating Area C and partly Area B under the conditions of a Treaty made with the PA.

They are not "treated as second-class citizens" because they are NOT citizens of Israel. They are citizens of the PA, and under the PA's administrative control.

They are detained, with due process, when necessary, as part of counter-terrorism measures required to defend Israel and her citizens.

Israel is the only country that really engages in the kind of behavior that is in question here.

How many countries have unresolved sovereign claims where "resistance" is a constant threat and reality?

As for Hamas, the only reason why Hamas had the power it had was because Netanyahu enabled it for years to act as a foil to Fatah and allow him to whine to the West, "Scary Muslims! Scary Muslims!!!"

See? You have proven my point. Excuses and "Jews deserve it". Why don't you address the actual behaviour committed by Hamas?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Counter offer- Go back to Europe where you came from.

Did Gaza get a seat on the UN or control over its own affairs? Nope. The Zionists strictly controlled its trade and energy grid.



without charges? Without legal representation?

Look, there's a reason why Dubya Bush put all those nitwits we caught in Afghanistan and Iraq at Gitmo, and that was so they wouldn't have access to American Courts.

Of course, at the end of the day, we can't put them on trial, either, and the vast majority of them were repatriated to their home or third countries. 780 people detained, 15 remain, zero have ever been put on trial. That's messed up.

Counter offer- Go back to Arabia where you came from.

 

[USAF 2023]

Why are you adding text I didn't say?

Again, if the guy is dangerous, you charge him with a crime, put him on trial, and convict him.

You don't hold him as bargaining chip and trade him for hostages.

Unless throwing him in with a bunch of truly innocent people gives you plausible deniability.

He was traded for hostages . There are many more He’s now Innocent? Please tell us who else is “ innocent “

 

[Shusha]

Did Gaza get a seat on the UN or control over its own affairs?

They absolutely had control over their own affairs. A UN seat and recognition? No. But they could have. If they had accepted the boundaries of the State of Gaza (or negotiated different ones with Israel) and if they had concentrated the billions of dollars they received into development of their economy and peaceful relations with their neighbors (which is a prerequisite for statehood, btw).

 

[Shusha]

Again, if the guy is dangerous, you charge him with a crime, put him on trial, and convict him.

You don't hold him as bargaining chip and trade him for hostages.

This is disingenuous. Those who are charged, tried, and convicted are traded for hostages. There is no moral equivalency between arresting and detaining people suspected of, let alone charged with, tried, and convicted of committing a crime, regardless of the outcome of that arrest and detention and taking civilians as hostages.

While administrative attention has been a contentious and controversial subject, it falls within international law and is both embedded in legal structure internationally and domestically by many states. It is practiced by many states, including the US.

Taking hostages is a crime against humanity. And you should be holding Hamas loudly to account for committing such crimes.

 

[USAF 2023]

They absolutely had control over their own affairs. A UN seat and recognition? No. But they could have. If they had accepted the boundaries of the State of Gaza (or negotiated different ones with Israel) and if they had concentrated the billions of dollars they received into development of their economy and peaceful relations with their neighbors (which is a prerequisite for statehood, btw).

Ask why they didn’t accept Olmert’s plan or st the Very Least “ negotiate “ instead of rejecting it outright . Ask why there wasn’t a “ Palestinian State” after 1948 or before 1967 and there will not be a response

 

[USAF 2023]

Why are you adding text I didn't say?

Again, if the guy is dangerous, you charge him with a crime, put him on trial, and convict him.

You don't hold him as bargaining chip and trade him for hostages.

Unless throwing him in with a bunch of truly innocent people gives you plausible deniability.

Ohhh. Put him on trial the way Hamas put those “ traitors” on trial? You are really quite funny He was charged for killing 14 people just like others were charged and convicted

 

[USAF 2023]

Ask why they didn’t accept Olmert’s plan or st the Very Least “ negotiate “ instead of rejecting it outright . Ask why there wasn’t a “ Palestinian State” after 1948 or before 1967 and there will not be a response

Forgot one thing.,, He offered a bridge connecting Gaza and the W Bank on Israeli soil If Israel were to totally leave the W Bank this is off the table Israel is not under any Legal obligation to provide this which would mean giving up territory

 

[Shusha]

Ask why they didn’t accept Olmert’s plan or st the Very Least “ negotiate “ instead of rejecting it outright . Ask why there wasn’t a “ Palestinian State” after 1948 or before 1967 and there will not be a response

Gaza, specifically, and under Hamas, specifically, is guided by the principles of Islam that require all territory once under Islamic rule to remain under Islamic rule and that re-conquest is mandatory under Islamic law. It is a religious ideology placed on top of a political ideology. The concept of one undivided and indivisable territory does not mean Gaza and the PA-controlled territory. It means the entirety of the territory, as part of the all-encompassing Caliphate. (And note that this is both a general religious ideology against everyone, but also a very specific one against the Jewish people and their relationship with Gd's covenant).

Why the PA didn't accept the Olmert plan is beyond me. (Not that I don't know the arguments, just that none of them are reasonable). My guess is that they thought they could get an even better deal. They could not have been more wrong.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Can you name a case where an American Citizen was arrested and put on trial on secret evidence without charges being filed?

Oh, wait. you can't?

Also, if these people were actually guilty of something-something, then why are the Zionists often so willing to trade them for hostages or even dead bodies.

Two American citizens who were convicted and imprisoned on the basis of evidence that was never made public are Chelsea Manning and Reality Winner. To preserve the secrecy of the information, only attorneys who are specially licensed to argue such cases before US federal courts can re[resemt such defendants and they can be held legally accountable if they facilitate leaks.

Only rarely have Israeli citizens been held in administrative detention and then only briefly. Most of these cases involved Israeli settlers in Judea or Samaria.

It is nothing short of imbecilic to imagine any western democracy would allow a criminal to go free because the evidence needed to convict him is classified.

However, none of this is relevant to the issue of your lie about administrative detainees not getting due process.

 

[Lockback]

Have to consider the source. This year alone thousands of Christians have died, dozens of Churches burned and the taking of Christians especially women as sex slaves yet not ONE word because it’s being done by Islamists. That’s why you don’t hear anything

Oh, gosh. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

 

[Lockback]

Israel has been cited many times by organizations like Amnesty International for holding Palestinians without due process.

Well, if there's anything Hamas is known for, it's due process.
As long as it's murdering Jews.

 

[Shusha]

Currently reading a fascinating Supreme Court (Israel) court case regarding whether administrative detention can be used to retain prisoners solely for the purpose of keeping them as "bargaining chips" while in the midst of negotiations for release of prisoners in exchange for hostages. Guess which way the verdict went.

And, again, pointing out that the crime against humanity committed is that of taking civilian hostages and then using them as "bargaining chips". The very fact that the conversation revolves around Israel's response to the atrocities committed against her, rather than on the atrocities themselves is a significant concern.

 

[JoeB131]

Counter offer- Go back to Arabia where you came from.

Palestine is Arabia.

Wrong. Israel is not occupying any foreign territory. She has an unsettled sovereign claim to Judea and Samaria and she is currently administrating Area C and partly Area B under the conditions of a Treaty made with the PA.

A treaty they forced on a PA that they have not negotiated in good faith with, you mean?

They are not "treated as second-class citizens" because they are NOT citizens of Israel. They are citizens of the PA, and under the PA's administrative control.

Then pull all Israeli settlements and troops out of Gaza and the WB.

How many countries have unresolved sovereign claims where "resistance" is a constant threat and reality?

Um. None. Because those countries usually resolve their issues. For instance, after years of bloodshed, the UK and Ireland finally settled their issues.

See? You have proven my point. Excuses and "Jews deserve it". Why don't you address the actual behaviour committed by Hamas?

Hamas is doing what any people would do under the same circumstances.

If a bunch of Russians took over Chicago, threw me out of my home, killed my family members, darned straight I'd be out there trying to off some Russians.