Gaza Genocide: 67% Gap Between What Elected Democrats and Their Voters Believe

[toomuchtime_]

Israel has been cited many times by organizations like Amnesty International for holding Palestinians without due process.

No matter who made that claim it simply isn't true. What they are referring to is the fact that some detainees are not charged formally as criminals because the legal case would jeopardize national security. All western countries have different legal processes for dealing with such cases.

Administrative detainees in Israel do have due process in which they are represented by their attorneys and in which the state cannot continue to hold them unless it presents to the court that the individual cannot be charged or released without bringing unacceptable national security risks to the state. Legally the individual can be held for up to six months after the first hearing, but the courts usually require the state to present its case for continued detention every few weeks. The individual has the right to appeal the court's decision all the way up to the High Court of Justice.

This process clearly satisfies all the requirements of due process. The main complaint about this process is that the evidence presented is secret, but in all western democracies classified information used as evidence is always keep secret criminal trials.

 

[Shusha]

Israel has been cited many times by organizations like Amnesty International for holding Palestinians without due process.

Israel's law enforcement works the same as most other Western countries, with the exception that they deal with terrorism and national security at a much higher and more frequent level than most other Western countries. Israel's Penal Code, law enforcement, and armed conflict follows applicable international and domestic law.

There are suspects held under Israel's criminal law system (citizens).
There are suspects held for reasons of Israel's national security (non-citizens).
There are prisoners of war.

Each are handled as appropriate for the laws they are subject to and with due process.

Did you want to actually be reasonable and compare that with the Government of Gaza, which operates from terror, rather than law. Like when someone is "suspected" of "collaborating with the enemy". Where is the "due process" in beating such a person to death and dumping their body at their parents doorstep? Is there a place I should look that up in international law? Or in a report by Amnesty International?

 

[JoeB131]

No matter who made that claim it simply isn't true. What they are referring to is the fact that some detainees are not charged formally as criminals because the legal case would jeopardize national security. All western countries have different legal processes for dealing with such cases.

So they are held without due process of law, and are amazing released when the Zionists want to retreive hostages or sometimes dead bodies. Most people would call them hostages.

Administrative detainees in Israel do have due process in which they are represented by their attorneys and in which the state cannot continue to hold them unless it presents to the court that the individual cannot be charged or released without bringing unacceptable national security risks to the state. Legally the individual can be held for up to six months after the first hearing, but the courts usually require the state to present its case for continued detention every few weeks. The individual has the right to appeal the court's decision all the way up to the High Court of Justice.

Blah, blah, blah. Charge them with a crime or let them go.

This process clearly satisfies all the requirements of due process. The main complaint about this process is that the evidence presented is secret, but in all western democracies classified information used as evidence is always keep secret criminal trials.

Oohhh, Secret Evidence! The hallmark of a fascist state.

 

[JoeB131]

Israel's law enforcement works the same as most other Western countries, with the exception that they deal with terrorism and national security at a much higher and more frequent level than most other Western countries.

When half your population is declared "Terrorists" because they don't go along with your apartheid rule, then you are probably doing it wrong.

 

[EMH]

"Three weeks ago, Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) introduced a resolution titled 'Recognizing the genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza.' Twenty-one House colleagues, all of them Democrats, signed on as co-sponsors.

"They account for 10 percent of the Democrats in Congress.

"In sharp contrast, a national Quinnipiac Poll found that 77 percent of Democrats 'think Israel is committing genocide.'

"That means there is a 67 percent gap between what the elected Democrats are willing to say and what the people who elected them believe.

The huge gap has big implications for the party’s primaries in the midterm elections next year, and then in the race for the 2028 Democratic presidential nomination."

December 4, 2025

Democrats in Congress Are Out of Touch With Constituents on Israeli Genocide​

Norman Solomon

This level of denial will be tested in Democratic primaries next year when elected Democrats face an electorate "...far more morally attuned to Gaza than they are."

The GOP is 50% believe Gaza is genocide and 95% of elected GOP officials deny it.


Voting Pro Israel is voting for treason against America.

 

[USAF 2023]

Israel has been cited many times by organizations like Amnesty International for holding Palestinians without due process.

Amnesty Intl doesn’t believe Israel has the right to exist BTW Nigeria is in W Africa and Rawanda is in E Central Africa

 

[JoeB131]

Amnesty Intl doesn’t believe Israel has the right to exist BTW Nigeria is in W Africa and Rawanda is in E Central Africa

Um, yeah. I'm not the one who claimed Rwanda is an example of "Evil Muslims" (since most of the population is Christian, but still capable of genocide.)

 

[toomuchtime_]

So they are held without due process of law, and are amazing released when the Zionists want to retreive hostages or sometimes dead bodies. Most people would call them hostages.



Blah, blah, blah. Charge them with a crime or let them go.


Oohhh, Secret Evidence! The hallmark of a fascist state.

Again and again and again you demonstrate you have no idea why you hate Israel/Jews so much. Now you tell us you have no idea what the term, due process means.

Whether you are being tried in Israel or the US or UK or any other western democracy, classified evidence is never made public, not even to a jury, in the course of a criminal proceeding. In other western democracies, the state presents classified evidence to the judge who then gives a directive to the jury on how to regard this secret evidence. In the Israel system the criminal trial is delayed until all the evidence can be presented in a public trial or the court determines the detainee is no longer a threat to national security.

Clearly, you have no idea what the word, fascist, means.

 

[USAF 2023]

Um, yeah. I'm not the one who claimed Rwanda is an example of "Evil Muslims" (since most of the population is Christian, but still capable of genocide.)

It’s not the Christians who are doing the killing@toomuchtime_

Israel's law enforcement works the same as most other Western countries, with the exception that they deal with terrorism and national security at a much higher and more frequent level than most other Western countries. Israel's Penal Code, law enforcement, and armed conflict follows applicable international and domestic law.

There are suspects held under Israel's criminal law system (citizens).
There are suspects held for reasons of Israel's national security (non-citizens).
There are prisoners of war.

Each are handled as appropriate for the laws they are subject to and with due process.

Did you want to actually be reasonable and compare that with the Government of Gaza, which operates from terror, rather than law. Like when someone is "suspected" of "collaborating with the enemy". Where is the "due process" in beating such a person to death and dumping their body at their parents doorstep? Is there a place I should look that up in international law? Or in a report by Amnesty International?

Now please stop being unreasonable. Joe is right. The Israelis have NO idea what true justice is. Unlike Hamas who just shot the “ Collaborators” to death in front of their families. “ Court Dates, A Lawyer? LOL!! Now, THAT’S JUSTICE

 

[Shusha]

When half your population is declared "Terrorists" because they don't go along with your apartheid rule, then you are probably doing it wrong.

Again, you demonstrate your ignorance how law enforcement works in Western societies and what words mean. Either that or you are willfully ignoring facts and reality so you can demonize Israel.

As you are fond of pointing out, Israelis are living in close proximity to people who want to, and are actively trying to, kill them. You can't at once claim that terrorism is very real in Israel and also imply that people are falsely declared "terrorists" and detained. Which is it? Is the threat of terrorism real? Or is it just an excuse to mistreat Palestinians?

The point of counter-terrorism isn't to permit terror attacks to happen and then arrest, convict, and imprison the perpetrators. The point is to prevent attacks. That's why the administrative attention only comes into play during times of state emergency.

Such detentions still require a judicial review of evidence, which IS due process.


The charge of "apartheid" rests on the claim that there are two sets of laws operating based solely on ethnicity. There are not. Administrative detention under Israel's version of the emergency measures acts applies in Israel as well as Areas A, B and C. There is no legal distinction. And certainly not one based on ethnicity. (Obviously, Israeli citizens are much less likely to commit acts of terror, so actual detentions will be skewed a certain direction in practice.)

 

[Shusha]

Now please stop being unreasonable. Joe is right. The Israelis have NO idea what true justice is. Unlike Hamas who just shot the “ Collaborators” to death in front of their families. “ Court Dates, A Lawyer? LOL!! Now, THAT’S JUSTICE

Israel is held to a higher and different standard than any other country or people, and then demonized for not meeting that standard. At the same time, Hamas is excused for the most brutal treatment of their own citizens, as well as atrocities committed on others. And the world looks on and shrugs, "Jews deserve it".

 

[USAF 2023]

Israel is held to a higher and different standard than any other country or people, and then demonized for not meeting that standard. At the same time, Hamas is excused for the most brutal treatment of their own citizens, as well as atrocities committed on others. And the world looks on and shrugs, "Jews deserve it".

One of the many reasons the UN is nothing but a Farce

 

[JoeB131]

Whether you are being tried in Israel or the US or UK or any other western democracy, classified evidence is never made public, not even to a jury, in the course of a criminal proceeding. In other western democracies, the state presents classified evidence to the judge who then gives a directive to the jury on how to regard this secret evidence. In the Israel system the criminal trial is delayed until all the evidence can be presented in a public trial or the court determines the detainee is no longer a threat to national security.

Can you name a case where an American Citizen was arrested and put on trial on secret evidence without charges being filed?

Oh, wait. you can't?

Also, if these people were actually guilty of something-something, then why are the Zionists often so willing to trade them for hostages or even dead bodies.

 

[JoeB131]

Again, you demonstrate your ignorance how law enforcement works in Western societies and what words mean. Either that or you are willfully ignoring facts and reality so you can demonize Israel.

As you are fond of pointing out, Israelis are living in close proximity to people who want to, and are actively trying to, kill them. You can't at once claim that terrorism is very real in Israel and also imply that people are falsely declared "terrorists" and detained. Which is it? Is the threat of terrorism real? Or is it just an excuse to mistreat Palestinians?

The point of counter-terrorism isn't to permit terror attacks to happen and then arrest, convict, and imprison the perpetrators. The point is to prevent attacks. That's why the administrative attention only comes into play during times of state emergency.

Um, most Western governments have condemned what Israel does. If these people were so dangerous, then the Zionists wouldn't be so keen to use them as bargaining chips.

The charge of "apartheid" rests on the claim that there are two sets of laws operating based solely on ethnicity. There are not. Administrative detention under Israel's version of the emergency measures acts applies in Israel as well as Areas A, B and C. There is no legal distinction. And certainly not one based on ethnicity. (Obviously, Israeli citizens are much less likely to commit acts of terror, so actual detentions will be skewed a certain direction in practice.)

Right. So here's the problem with that. Israel is illegally occupying Gaza and the West Bank, and treating the people there like second class citizens in their own land. South Africa tried some similiar horseshit in the waning days of Apartheid, and the world didn't buy it, either.

Israel is held to a higher and different standard than any other country or people, and then demonized for not meeting that standard. At the same time, Hamas is excused for the most brutal treatment of their own citizens, as well as atrocities committed on others. And the world looks on and shrugs, "Jews deserve it".

Nope.

Israel is the only country that really engages in the kind of behavior that is in question here.

As for Hamas, the only reason why Hamas had the power it had was because Netanyahu enabled it for years to act as a foil to Fatah and allow him to whine to the West, "Scary Muslims! Scary Muslims!!!"

(It didn't help that Hamas was providing actual services while Fatah was stealing Western Aid hand over fist. )

 

[USAF 2023]

Can you name a case where an American Citizen was arrested and put on trial on secret evidence without charges being filed?

Oh, wait. you can't?

Also, if these people were actually guilty of something-something, then why are the Zionists often so willing to trade them for hostages or even dead bodies.

I can give you TWO names; There are many more; Imad Qawassmeh killed 16 Israelis, Mohammed Aref Samham killed 23 Sorry, that’s not enough for you b

 

[JoeB131]

I can give you TWO names; There are many more; Imad Qawassmeh killed 16 Israelis, Mohammed Aref Samham killed 23 Sorry, that’s not enough for you b

they don't sound like Americans to me. I specifically asked you to name AMERICANS who have been arrested and put on trial without any charges or evidence.

But just for fun.

Imad Qawassmeh

Qawasameh tribe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Qawasameh tribe (Arabic: القواسمة, also spelled: Qawasmeh or Kawasmeh in English), is a major clan primarily based in Hebron, with roughly 10,000 members. Although many of the Qawasmeh were originally pro-peace moderates and supporters of a two-state solution, they were radicalised. One tribe faction, numbering several hundred, dominates Hamas in Hebron and is a radical opposition faction within Hamas, which frequently sabotages Hamas cease fires with bombings and attacks, provoking Israeli retaliation.

On October 13, 2004, Imad Qawasameh was arrested by IDF forces, after intelligence was provided by the Shin Bet. According to witnesses, Imad surrendered immediately after an IDF Caterpillar D9 armoured bulldozer started to demolish his house.

In 2011, the IDF broke into Omar Qawasameh's home, put a gun to his wife's head and shot him dead in his sleep. Subsequently, the Israeli army released a statement acknowledging the Qawasameh killing was unintended. An Israeli military spokesman told the AFP news agency: "There is no indication that [al-Qawasmeh] was involved in any terror activity at any stage and therefore we regret the incident."


If these guys were so ******* dangerous, why exchange them for hostages?

 

[USAF 2023]

Um, most Western governments have condemned what Israel does. If these people were so dangerous, then the Zionists wouldn't be so keen to use them as bargaining chips.



Right. So here's the problem with that. Israel is illegally occupying Gaza and the West Bank, and treating the people there like second class citizens in their own land. South Africa tried some similiar horseshit in the waning days of Apartheid, and the world didn't buy it, either.

View attachment 1198924




Nope.

Israel is the only country that really engages in the kind of behavior that is in question here.

As for Hamas, the only reason why Hamas had the power it had was because Netanyahu enabled it for years to act as a foil to Fatah and allow him to whine to the West, "Scary Muslims! Scary Muslims!!!"

(It didn't help that Hamas was providing actual services while Fatah was stealing Western Aid hand over fist. )

Another lie! Israel left Gaza in 2005. Maybe you can tell us why their Rocket Fire immediately increased and why they did not consider Olmert’s plan?Please tell us what Coutef offers they made

 

[Shusha]

Can you name a case where an American Citizen was arrested and put on trial on secret evidence without charges being filed?

I don't know that there is a specific case that can be identified, but US law certainly permits both citizens and non-citizens to be held in administrative detention for terrorism and as enemy combatants. And also to be held in six-month periods, which can be renewed indefinitely. (Of course, it is legally much much more complicated than can be expressed in short posts like this.)

 

[USAF 2023]

I don't know that there is a specific case that can be identified, but US law certainly permits both citizens and non-citizens to be held in administrative detention for terrorism and as enemy combatants. And also to be held in six-month periods, which can be renewed indefinitely. (Of course, it is legally much much more complicated than can be expressed in short posts like this.)

Notice he doesn’t mention the Palestinians who were shot to death in front of their family Wait… I’m wrong. I remember their trials

 

[JoeB131]

Another lie! Israel left Gaza in 2005. Maybe you can tell us why their Rocket Fire immediately increased and why they did not consider Olmert’s plan?Please tell us what Coutef offers they made

Counter offer- Go back to Europe where you came from.

Did Gaza get a seat on the UN or control over its own affairs? Nope. The Zionists strictly controlled its trade and energy grid.

I don't know that there is a specific case that can be identified, but US law certainly permits both citizens and non-citizens to be held in administrative detention for terrorism and as enemy combatants.

without charges? Without legal representation?

Look, there's a reason why Dubya Bush put all those nitwits we caught in Afghanistan and Iraq at Gitmo, and that was so they wouldn't have access to American Courts.

Of course, at the end of the day, we can't put them on trial, either, and the vast majority of them were repatriated to their home or third countries. 780 people detained, 15 remain, zero have ever been put on trial. That's messed up.