Gay Relationships and What God Reveals About Them!

[PoliticalTorch]

There is Zero scientific or medical evidence that people are born homo......just a lot of theories.....but no solid concrete evidence.

Being a homo is a 'choice'......a pathetic choice.......but still a choice. ..

Doesn't matter that some are so ignorant that they believe we choose our sexuality. Its still no one's business.

Doesn't matter what some bible thumpers believe. They're welcome to believe any fiction they want. Its still none of their business.

Doesn't matter that some people, like Sunni "man", are threatened by homosexuality because they are so frikken insecure. Its none of their business what consenting adults do in their sexual lives.

MYOB

Hi Luddly, Here are some links to great scientific and medical information about this subject matter!

Study finds genes on X chromosome linked to male homosexuality

Geneticist Dean Hamer Testifies In Hawai?i On The Biological Origins Of Homosexuality | Truth Wins Out

LGBT Science ? Exploring the origins of sexual orientation and gender identity ? LGBT Science

Former Love In Action Director John Smid: Homosexuality Is Not a Choice and Can?t Be Changed | Truth Wins Out

 

[PoliticalTorch]

This is Excellent Information on what we are discussing! Thank you for your attention.

Would Jesus Discriminate? - Biblical Evidence

Anthropologist Community - When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite

The Gay Christian Network

Matthew Vines

 

[PoliticalTorch]

This is Excellent Information on what we are discussing!

How do you interpret Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, man should not lay with man? Shrine Prostitutes are never said to be homosexuals in the Bible.

What does 'You shall not lie with a man as with a woman' mean?

Archbishop Desmond Tutu: Church is "Extraordinarily Homophobic"| Gay News | Towleroad

Whosoever: Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin

 

[emilynghiem]

Here is a link that GreenBean posted
though he is not Christian and does not support that religious approach:
People Can Change - An alternative, healing response to unwanted homosexual desires.
These are Christian men and women helping other people as themselves to change unwanted homosexual attractions and behavior as part of their spiritual growth process.

This is Excellent Information on what we are discussing! Thank you for your attention.

Would Jesus Discriminate? - Biblical Evidence

Anthropologist Community - When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite

The Gay Christian Network

Matthew Vines

For those not interested in this particular application of spiritual healing,
here are links to the general process of deliverance and healing applied to cancer,
schizophrenia and other diseases that are recognized by medical science:
Home - Christian Healing Ministries
Healing Is Yours
freespiritualhealing | Resources for Healing and Forgiveness Therapy
The same natural process of restoring healthy mind, body, spirit and relations,
(which is being rejected as discrimination when applied to homosexuality),
actually works to address much broader areas of physical and mental health for all people.

I believe more focus and research should be on broader applications to save more lives
from any number of diseases, especially those that medicine alone has failed to cure,
but patients have success using a combination of spiritual healing with medical treatment.

Public attention should be directed here, not arguing over homosexuality as a political target.
=============================================

 

[Quantum Windbag]

People worldwide need to know and understand that God Does Not Condemn Gay and Lesbian Individuals. That was never His plan nor His message to mankind. Had He condemned them because He felt that they were such sinners He would have added yet another Commandment to His Ten Commandments declaring it so but He clearly did not. And Jesus Christ said not one word against them either. But some preachers have twisted Scriptures so badly such as to try to convince their gullible followers that God condemns them when, in effect, those Scriptures used for condemnation are speaking to something entirely different. Therefore, those preachers and others are being very disingenuous and dishonest in the face of God who is wanting for them to tell the Truth that there is actually No Condemnation of Gay and Lesbian people. And If God does not condemn them, why should you?

This Biblical expert explains the major misconceptions people have about this issue.

What does God really say about gay relationships?

You want a lesson in Greek to explain why the blog you cited is wrong, or would the facts confuse you?

No one with actual knowledge of Greek ever claimed that μαλακός means gay, what it actually means is catamite, which is a boy kept so that a man can **** him. It can also mean male prostitute. In other words, while it might have covered temple prostitution, that was not the primary meaning of the word.

As for ἀρσενοκοίτης, it clearly means one who lies with a man as a woman, AKA sodomite or homosexual.

The Bible might not condemn homosexuality, but it does clearly state that anyone who practices it is not going to heaven. I have no idea why you think you need God's approval, but lying is not the way to get it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Wrath of God defined
Researched by Chuckt

"(1:18) The apostle now speaks of the wrath of God inasmuch as 'the revelation of the righteousness of God (v.17) is needed in view of the revelation of His wrath, from which only God's righteousness (whether it be His justifying sentence or the righteousness He bestows on man) can deliver' (Denney). 'Wrath' is orge. The word is used of God's wrath in Matthew 3:7, Romans 1:17, 12:19, and is defined by Trench as 'a wrath of God who would not love good unless He hated evil, the two being inseparable, that He must do both or neither.' It is used of our Lord when, after healing the man with the withered hand, He observed the hardness of heart of the Pharisees, and looked upon them with anger (Mk. 3:5). Orge is an anger 'which righteous men not merely may, but as they are righteous, must feel; nor can there be a surer and sadder token of an utterly prostrate moral condition than the not being to be angry with sin--and sinners' (Trench). Vincent describes orge as God's personal emotion with regard to sin. It represents God's abhorrence and hatred of sin."1

(There is more of the definition here which supports this translation.)

"Translation: For there is revealed God's wrath from heaven upon every lack of reverence and (every) unrighteousness of men who the truth in unrighteousness are holding down."2

1 Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, Volume 1, Kenneth Wuest, Eerdmans, p. 28-29

2. "The New Testament" (An Expanded Translation) by Kenneth Wuest on Romans 1:18.

I've actually debated people who say that Romans 1 doesn't speak about Homosexuality so I researched the scholars:

What do the scholars have to say about Romans Chapter 1? They all say it is Homosexuality being discussed. Since all of my debaters are without Bible degrees, they are sadly misinformed by those Homosexuals who wish to change what the Bible says because the majority of scholars do support the interpretation that Romans 1 has to do with Homosexuality. My debaters are misinformed..

“b. Abandoned to sexual perversion (1:26-27)
1:26-27. Also God gave them over to shameful lusts (lit., ‘passions of disgrace&#8217. This involved, as the text states, both sexes engaging in homosexual instead of heterosexual relationships. Women deliberately exchanged natural relations (with men in marriage) for unnatural ones (with other women). This is the second ‘exchange’ the unregenerate made (cf. v.25). Men...were inflamed with lust (orexei,’sexual lust,’ used only here in the NT and differing from the more common word for lust in v.26).

The words translated women and men in these verses are the sexual words ‘females’ and ‘males.’ Contemporary homosexuals insist that these verses mean that it is perverse for a heterosexual male or female to engage in homosexual relations but it is not perverse for a homosexual male or female to do so since homosexuality is such a person’s natural preference. This is strained exegesis unsupported by the Bible. The only natural sexual relationship the Bible recognizes is a heterosexual one (Gen. 2:21-24; Matt. 19:4-6) within marriage. All homosexual relations constitute sexual perversion and are subject to God’s judgment. Such lustful and indecent acts have within them the seeds of punishment (due penalty).”-“The Bible Knowledge Commentary” (An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty, p.444.

“When the Bible declares that homosexual practices are ‘against nature’ (Rom. 1:26), it is referring to biological nature, not sociological nature. First, sex is defined biologically in Scripture from the very beginning. In Genesis 1, God created ‘male and female’ and then told them to ‘be fruitful and increase in number’ (Gen. 1:27-27, NIV). This reproduction was only possible if He was referring to a biological male and female.

“Second, sexual orientation is understood biologically, not sociologically, when God said ‘for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh’ (Gen. 2:24, NIV. For only a biological father and mother can produce children, and the reference to ‘one flesh’ speaks of a physical marriage.

“Thirdly, the Romans passage says that ‘men committed indecent acts with other men.’

This clearly indicates that this sinful act was homosexual in nature (Rom. 1:27, NIV).

“Fourth, what they did was not natural to them. They ‘exchanged’ the ‘natural relations’ for the unnatural ones (Rom. 1:26, NIV). So the homosexual acts were pronounced unnatural for homosexuals too.

“Fifth, homosexual desires are also called ‘shameful lusts’ (v. 26, NIV). So it is evident that God is condemning sexual sins between those of the same biological sex. Homosexual acts are contrary to human nature as such, not just to a homosexual’s sexual orientation.”-“When Critics Ask” by Dr. Norman Geisler, p438-439

“Because they exchanged the real God for false gods, by way of temporary punishment they exchanged natural sexual intercourse for homosexuality. 25. Paul breaks out of the foul atmosphere of vice and idolatry into the fresh air of a doxology. 27. Perversion is their idolatry: Gk. plane (lit. ‘wandering&#8217 is often used in the LXX.”-“The International Bible Commentary”, F.F. Bruce, General Editor, p.1320

“Long before this chapter was penned, the Lesbians and others throughout refined Greece had been luxuriating in such debasements;”-“Commentary On The Whole Bible” by Jamieson, Fausset and Brown, p.1142.

“Although today the world seeks to popularize and legitimize homosexuality, nevertheless it is despicable to God and condemned by Him.”-Liberty Bible Commentary, p.345

“Does the Bible really condemn homosexuality? The answer is yes, it does. In every place it mentions any homosexual practice it roundly condemns the practice. In no place does it speak positively on homosexuality.”-“Hard Sayings of the Bible” by Walter C. Kaiser Jr, Peter H. Davids, F.F. Bruce, Manfred T. Brauch, p.545



“What is true historically and theologically is in measure true, however, experientially. The ‘gay’ facade is a thin veil for deep-seated frustration. The folly of homosexuality is proclaimed in its inability to reproduce the human species in keeping with the divine commandment (Ge 1:28). To sum up, what people do with God has much to do with their personal character and lifestyle. Throughout the passage they are represented as actively choosing a religion and a lifestyle; they are not being taken captive against their will.”
-“Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary”, Volume 2: New Testament, p.528-529

“In my book Reasoning Through Romans, I define these sins,...”-“Thru The Bible Commentary”, Romans by Dr. J. Vernon McGeep.42

“I believe our text hints at the latter. In verse 27, Paul writes,’they receive in themselves that recompense of their error’ (verse 27). It could very well be that ‘the recompense of their error’ manifests itself in a chemical that affects the psychology of a person who practices this kind of error.

Homosexuality damages people psychologically. It changes who they are and what they could be. Knowing this, God says,’Stay away from it.’”-p.878, Jon Courson’s Application Commentary

You are quite incorrect. Please read from the link provided as these very Scriptures are discussed without error or prejudice by a Biblical scholar. By the way, I have a doctorate in Religious Education. And you are quite in error also in trying to condemn people by saying that "Homosexuality damages people psychologically." Medical and Scientific organizations for decades have revealed just the opposite that you need to embrace and understand. I'm afraid your prejudiced hypothesis cannot withstand scrutiny.

I have a ThD, which means I didn't study religion, I studied the Bible. You really aren't qualified to discuss the Bible simply because you studied religion.

By they way, where is the CV of that so called Biblical scholar? Why can't I find it on the website?

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi Luddly, Here are some links to great scientific and medical information about this subject matter!

1. Study finds genes on X chromosome linked to male homosexuality

,,,

4. Former Love In Action Director John Smid: Homosexuality Is Not a Choice and Can?t Be Changed | Truth Wins Out

Thanks for these links, [MENTION=49463]PoliticalTorch[/MENTION]

4. RE: harm caused by forced conversion therapy

Dr. Francis MacNutt author of "Homosexuality Can it be Healed" also warns that applying the wrong therapy to the wrong person can cause almost irreparable harm in his book "Healing" -- but this does NOT negative the effective therapy applied to effective cases. There is a difference.

The fraudulent dangerous approaches are the exact opposite of the natural healing.
MacNutt can explain the difference, and has used the same natural/effective methods of the successful ministries.
False "faith healing" and "forced conversion" are both fraudulent; and these have NOTHING to do with natural spiritual healing and deliverance/recovery therapy based on forgiveness.

To deny people access to healthy natural therapy, based on fear of the dangerous malpractice of frauds, is equally unethical, causing harm, and preventing suicidal people from getting help of spiritual healing methods that save lives. I had two friends saved from suicidal depression and panic attacks that otherwise pushed them to self-destruct with physical self-harm. The method used by MacNutt's healing ministry is safe, saved my friends who could have died, and works naturally with medicine and science to heal any number of diseases -- and is the SAME process of deep forgiveness people use to heal of sexual abuse or addiction connected with either homosexuality or heterosexuality.
So to ban that therapy would discriminate against people who need this separately, and whose lives and minds would be saved -- not just homosexual but heterosexual as well.

It just can't be forced on people against their will or nature or it's like religious abuse, and does not work.
You don't ban an entire religion just because of religious abuse. You get rid of the abuse. And you keep the good practices that prevent and heal that abuse.

We need to listen to the experienced experts and practictioners, like Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutt, who KNOW and can TEACH the DIFFERENCE
between the right and wrong practices; NOT the ones who only know one side and say the others are wrong because their understanding is limited.

1.

"Hamer warned that any attempt to develop a test for homosexuality would be “wrong, unethical and a terrible abuse of research”.

The gene or genes in the Xq28 region that influence sexual orientation have a limited and variable impact. Not all of the gay men in Bailey’s study inherited the same Xq28 region. The genes were neither sufficient, nor necessary, to make any of the men gay.

The flawed thinking behind a genetic test for sexual orientation is clear from studies of twins, which show that the identical twin of a gay man, who carries an exact replica of his brother’s DNA, is more likely to be straight than gay. That means even a perfect genetic test that picked up every gene linked to sexual orientation would still be less effective than flipping a coin.

While genes do contribute to sexual orientation, other multiple factors play a greater role, perhaps including the levels of hormones a baby is exposed to in the womb. “Sexual orientation has nothing to do with choice,” said Bailey. “We found evidence for two sets [of genes] that affect whether a man is gay or straight. But it is not completely determinative; there are certainly other environmental factors involved.”

Your cite on genetic region clarified these points.

I still say this is more consistent with spiritual causes and processes
which can be passed down and concentrated in families without being genetic.

Because spiritual paths and processes in life can change,
this would also explain why some people change and others do not,
while genetics alone cannot predict or explain these consistently.

The focus on genetics is created a false paradigm between trying to force
everyone to be labeled by genetics or forcing everyone to recognize choice;
this is causing harm and distress and discrimination, because people's answers
and experiences are different. To explain these things in terms of spiritual path
in life leaves it open for all people to define or decide for themselves what is
true for them, while leaving it equally open for others to have different answers.

So this spiritual approach is more equally respectful and inclusive than
forcing the argument into genetics in one corner or free choice in another.
To me, that is cruel and unfair to all people affected and involved, which is all society at this point.

Thank you PT for a great thread, and I hope more people use this opportunity
to share and heal of their past experiences that caused them suffering over this issue,
and come to a higher understanding and respect for each other in the process. Thanks!

 

[Chuckt]

gag worthy

and remember, they want all of you to STAY OF THEIR LIVES

but they don't have to follow their own demands

Hi [MENTION=1668]Stephanie[/MENTION]
Not if they are not held to the same standards.
If people keep attacking the homosexuality, that is distracting from the
standards against "adultery and coveting" that all people are held to equally.

If they want equal rights, then let's treat them and all others as equals.
And hold them to equal standards, including ourselves.

[MENTION=22295]emilynghiem[/MENTION]

I don't think it is equality though.

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Did God give me up for my sins if my sins were equal?
I bet you are going to have a hard time answering this question.
The question needs answering.

 

[emilynghiem]

gag worthy

and remember, they want all of you to STAY OF THEIR LIVES

but they don't have to follow their own demands

Hi [MENTION=1668]Stephanie[/MENTION]
Not if they are not held to the same standards.
If people keep attacking the homosexuality, that is distracting from the
standards against "adultery and coveting" that all people are held to equally.

If they want equal rights, then let's treat them and all others as equals.
And hold them to equal standards, including ourselves.

[MENTION=22295]emilynghiem[/MENTION]

I don't think it is equality though.

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Did God give me up for my sins if my sins were equal?
I bet you are going to have a hard time answering this question.
The question needs answering.

Thanks [MENTION=44368]Chuckt[/MENTION]

I have many friends who go through their own suffering
for what they refuse to give up to God through forgiveness.

Yes, I've been through some situations like this, where I just had to suffer through it.

This doesn't apply to just literally to just sex.

A friend destroyed his body with drugs and has to face all the consequences
now as he recovers. He did go through child abuse and rape, but he was
never homosexual.

I went through more political persecution and punishment, living in a cursed
district with descreated gravesites and demonic attacks, that God just left
to us to go through until such time as the curse is broken or healed or worked out.

Yes, the body and history of the community has been defiled and dishonored.

so this applies on many levels, not just the karma involved in homosexuality.

Look at the genocidal curses in Haiti and Africa, all left to suffer to the
sins of the past passed down to the fourth and fifth generations.

Look at the abortions in China and mutilations of women in other countries.

That is heterosexual populations not just homosexual suffering from
unforgiven sins until the cycle is broken by forgiveness and the people/nations healed.

Lots of people suffer from unforgiven sins/karma and generational curses/sickness.

God does not mean to punish us but to respect our free will to learn the difference between forgiveness and unforgiveness and to ask for help to be freed from the cycles of abuse.

Many people suffer, and collectively it affects us all, regardless of orientation.

The Bible says that whoever is loved shall be hated, and whoever is hated shall be loved.
And whoever is exalted shall be humbled, and whoever is humbled shall be exalted

Sometimes the people we fear or hate the most end up being the saving grace like the Good Samaritan we least expected to be our neighbor in Christ.
sometimes the people we trust and love the most hurt us the worst when we least expect it and when we needed them the most.
this is to learn forgiveness, and this current focus on homosexuality is being used to teach us forgiveness that applies and heals all people, not just gay.

This is a major lesson in humility and to trust in God's judgment.
Matthew 19:12

11But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.
12"For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men;
and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.
He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."

Only the most humble people I know are able to discern which are which,
and leave the rest to God. They do not judge, yet are blessed with wisest judgment.
And yes, they are respected for their judgment. This takes true humility and faith in God to let go of all judgment and trust in his.

 

[Chuckt]

Hi [MENTION=1668]Stephanie[/MENTION]
Not if they are not held to the same standards.
If people keep attacking the homosexuality, that is distracting from the
standards against "adultery and coveting" that all people are held to equally.

If they want equal rights, then let's treat them and all others as equals.
And hold them to equal standards, including ourselves.

[MENTION=22295]emilynghiem[/MENTION]

I don't think it is equality though.

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Did God give me up for my sins if my sins were equal?
I bet you are going to have a hard time answering this question.
The question needs answering.

Thanks [MENTION=44368]Chuckt[/MENTION]

I have many friends who go through their own suffering
for what they refuse to give up to God through forgiveness.

Yes, I've been through some situations like this, where I just had to suffer through it.

This doesn't apply to just literally to just sex.

A friend destroyed his body with drugs and has to face all the consequences
now as he recovers. He did go through child abuse and rape, but he was
never homosexual.

I went through more political persecution and punishment, living in a cursed
district with descreated gravesites and demonic attacks, that God just left
to us to go through until such time as the curse is broken or healed or worked out.

Yes, the body and history of the community has been defiled and dishonored.

so this applies on many levels, not just the karma involved in homosexuality.

Look at the genocidal curses in Haiti and Africa, all left to suffer to the
sins of the past passed down to the fourth and fifth generations.

Look at the abortions in China and mutilations of women in other countries.

That is heterosexual populations not just homosexual suffering from
unforgiven sins until the cycle is broken by forgiveness and the people/nations healed.

Lots of people suffer from unforgiven sins/karma and generational curses/sickness.

God does not mean to punish us but to respect our free will to learn the difference between forgiveness and unforgiveness and to ask for help to be freed from the cycles of abuse.

Many people suffer, and collectively it affects us all, regardless of orientation.

The Bible says that whoever is loved shall be hated, and whoever is hated shall be loved.
And whoever is exalted shall be humbled, and whoever is humbled shall be exalted

Sometimes the people we fear or hate the most end up being the saving grace like the Good Samaritan we least expected to be our neighbor in Christ.
sometimes the people we trust and love the most hurt us the worst when we least expect it and when we needed them the most.
this is to learn forgiveness, and this current focus on homosexuality is being used to teach us forgiveness that applies and heals all people, not just gay.

This is a major lesson in humility and to trust in God's judgment.
Matthew 19:12

11But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.
12"For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men;
and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.
He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."

Only the most humble people I know are able to discern which are which,
and leave the rest to God. They do not judge, yet are blessed with wisest judgment.
And yes, they are respected for their judgment. This takes true humility and faith in God to let go of all judgment and trust in his.

Thank you for working hard and trying to answer my question.
I'm going to do a lot of thinking about it.
I don't feel that it is the total answer to my question, however.
I don't think that all sins are equal.
One of my posts centered around this question got my response deleted from a Christian website / blog and I thought they were on my side.

 

[PoliticalTorch]

People worldwide need to know and understand that God Does Not Condemn Gay and Lesbian Individuals. That was never His plan nor His message to mankind. Had He condemned them because He felt that they were such sinners He would have added yet another Commandment to His Ten Commandments declaring it so but He clearly did not. And Jesus Christ said not one word against them either. But some preachers have twisted Scriptures so badly such as to try to convince their gullible followers that God condemns them when, in effect, those Scriptures used for condemnation are speaking to something entirely different. Therefore, those preachers and others are being very disingenuous and dishonest in the face of God who is wanting for them to tell the Truth that there is actually No Condemnation of Gay and Lesbian people. And If God does not condemn them, why should you?

This Biblical expert explains the major misconceptions people have about this issue.

What does God really say about gay relationships?

You want a lesson in Greek to explain why the blog you cited is wrong, or would the facts confuse you?

No one with actual knowledge of Greek ever claimed that μαλακός means gay, what it actually means is catamite, which is a boy kept so that a man can **** him. It can also mean male prostitute. In other words, while it might have covered temple prostitution, that was not the primary meaning of the word.

As for ἀρσενοκοίτης, it clearly means one who lies with a man as a woman, AKA sodomite or homosexual.

The Bible might not condemn homosexuality, but it does clearly state that anyone who practices it is not going to heaven. I have no idea why you think you need God's approval, but lying is not the way to get it.

Sorry but the source is a very valid one who obviously knows what they are talking about without prejudice.

 

[SmedlyButler]

Chuckt: The (Greek?) word for Homosexuals is “arsenokoitēs”

__________________________ ________________


I hope I'm not the only one who finds this strangely amusing.

 

[PoliticalTorch]

=Quantum Windbag;9351937]

I have a ThD, which means I didn't study religion, I studied the Bible. You really aren't qualified to discuss the Bible simply because you studied religion.

By they way, where is the CV of that so called Biblical scholar? Why can't I find it on the website?

Excuse me? You don't have any idea of my full qualifications and training that I've had but I have learned the hard way that discussing it with skeptics who are predisposed to not believe even after being shown is a complete exercise in futility. I mentioned only one of my credentials at the risk of not sounding overly pompous or ostentatious. As for knowing more about the writer of the article you should have looked for it closer. *One* such page, an earlier one of others, is at: My Coming Out - True Story of Rick Brentlinger's Spiritual Journey

Here is yet another great and expert source with the same basic information.

Dr. John Corvino (The Gay Moralist) John Corvino - The Gay Moralist

 

[Chuckt]

=Quantum Windbag;9351937]

I have a ThD, which means I didn't study religion, I studied the Bible. You really aren't qualified to discuss the Bible simply because you studied religion.

By they way, where is the CV of that so called Biblical scholar? Why can't I find it on the website?

Excuse me? You don't have any idea of my full qualifications and training that I've had but I have learned the hard way that discussing it with skeptics who are predisposed to not believe even after being shown is a complete exercise in futility. I mentioned only one of my credentials at the risk of not sounding overly pompous or ostentatious. As for knowing more about the writer of the article you should have looked for it closer. *One* such page, an earlier one of others, is at: My Coming Out - True Story of Rick Brentlinger's Spiritual Journey

Here is yet another great and expert source with the same basic information.

Dr. John Corvino (The Gay Moralist) John Corvino - The Gay Moralist

Ordained by men but not by God.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

People worldwide need to know and understand that God Does Not Condemn Gay and Lesbian Individuals. That was never His plan nor His message to mankind. Had He condemned them because He felt that they were such sinners He would have added yet another Commandment to His Ten Commandments declaring it so but He clearly did not. And Jesus Christ said not one word against them either. But some preachers have twisted Scriptures so badly such as to try to convince their gullible followers that God condemns them when, in effect, those Scriptures used for condemnation are speaking to something entirely different. Therefore, those preachers and others are being very disingenuous and dishonest in the face of God who is wanting for them to tell the Truth that there is actually No Condemnation of Gay and Lesbian people. And If God does not condemn them, why should you?

This Biblical expert explains the major misconceptions people have about this issue.

What does God really say about gay relationships?

You want a lesson in Greek to explain why the blog you cited is wrong, or would the facts confuse you?

No one with actual knowledge of Greek ever claimed that μαλακός means gay, what it actually means is catamite, which is a boy kept so that a man can **** him. It can also mean male prostitute. In other words, while it might have covered temple prostitution, that was not the primary meaning of the word.

As for ἀρσενοκοίτης, it clearly means one who lies with a man as a woman, AKA sodomite or homosexual.

The Bible might not condemn homosexuality, but it does clearly state that anyone who practices it is not going to heaven. I have no idea why you think you need God's approval, but lying is not the way to get it.

Sorry but the source is a very valid one who obviously knows what they are talking about without prejudice.

Do you know that because you have a copy of their curriculum vitae that is unavailable to anyone else, or i it because you found someone that supports your uneducated opinion? I can provide a list of actually Bible scholars that all disagree with his "unbiased" opinion if you are actually interested in what the Bible actually says.

Romans 1 - Matthew Henry?s Commentary - Bible Commentary

Romans 1 - Wesley?s Explanatory Notes - Bible Commentary

 

[Quantum Windbag]

=Quantum Windbag;9351937]

I have a ThD, which means I didn't study religion, I studied the Bible. You really aren't qualified to discuss the Bible simply because you studied religion.

By they way, where is the CV of that so called Biblical scholar? Why can't I find it on the website?

Excuse me? You don't have any idea of my full qualifications and training that I've had but I have learned the hard way that discussing it with skeptics who are predisposed to not believe even after being shown is a complete exercise in futility. I mentioned only one of my credentials at the risk of not sounding overly pompous or ostentatious. As for knowing more about the writer of the article you should have looked for it closer. *One* such page, an earlier one of others, is at: My Coming Out - True Story of Rick Brentlinger's Spiritual Journey

Here is yet another great and expert source with the same basic information.

Dr. John Corvino (The Gay Moralist) John Corvino - The Gay Moralist

I don't give a **** about your so called journey because it is 100% irrelevant.

And I still want to see the curriculum vitae of that so called Biblical scholar you think is an expert. One would thing that a guy who holds an actual degree would know what that means, but apparently you think me asking for it is a personal attack.

By the way that other great source for info on what the Bible says is a philosopher. Philosophers specialize in rationalizing things that have no evidence to support them, which does make him an expert on your position.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Since this thread is supposed to be about what the Bile says, and you are resorting to quoting experts on everything but the Bible, I suggest that you need to rethink your position that you know what the Bible says.

 

[emilynghiem]

Since this thread is supposed to be about what the Bile says, and you are resorting to quoting experts on everything but the Bible, I suggest that you need to rethink your position that you know what the Bible says.

Your statements seem clear to me, and are consistent with the Bible.

PT's interpretation may be skewed if there is any conflict accommodating both
* people born/made from the womb as eunuchs/not meant for child-bearing marriage
* people made that way by man
* people made for spiritual purposes of God

If this was only meant literally as eunuchs/castrated people,
then what mystery would there be that some may not receive it but only
those to whom it is given to understand.

The deeper meaning is to be careful not to judge which
conditions are born from the womb
made that way unnaturally by man
meant for spiritual reasons as part of God's plan or purpose

so even if people are made that way unnaturally
it could still be part of God's plan and not for us to judge or condemn

(I check if people are happy healthy or not.
If they have any unforgiven issues I try to help them work them out
so their minds and relations function better especially communications.)

here QW I see nothing wrong with your credentials or your assessment/interpretation
of data and the Bible.

if PT has an issue with some people going through a spiritual process
and either changing or not changing, and either way it is by their spiritual path

that conflict or doubt should be resolved first, where there is no doubt or issue
that both types of cases are equally possible and part of the spiritual path or plan

if QW has issues forgiving such different cases, too, that should be resolved

After both have forgiven and resolved he fact these differences exist
(as have been delineated for eunuchs in the Bible as being differently caused)

then maybe you can respect each other as speaking truthfully
without having to defend or justify what you are saying against doubts by the other

frankly I don't see a conflict, since the Bible explains there are different reasons
for eunuchs, which makes sense it applies to other conditions also.

both types of cases are going on, and both for spiritual processes and paths
that are not the same for all people. the point is to arrive at healing
forgiveness and unified understanding. people's experiences will vary along the way.

and like the eunuchs, different cases may exist and express as part of the spiritual process

this is not something to be judged as negative, while still seeking to forgive correct and heal whatever we need to reconcile in God's truth, by forgiving first and letting corrections follow

 

[Chuckt]

=Quantum Windbag;9351937]

I have a ThD, which means I didn't study religion, I studied the Bible. You really aren't qualified to discuss the Bible simply because you studied religion.

By they way, where is the CV of that so called Biblical scholar? Why can't I find it on the website?

Excuse me? You don't have any idea of my full qualifications and training that I've had but I have learned the hard way that discussing it with skeptics who are predisposed to not believe even after being shown is a complete exercise in futility. I mentioned only one of my credentials at the risk of not sounding overly pompous or ostentatious. As for knowing more about the writer of the article you should have looked for it closer. *One* such page, an earlier one of others, is at: My Coming Out - True Story of Rick Brentlinger's Spiritual Journey

Here is yet another great and expert source with the same basic information.

Dr. John Corvino (The Gay Moralist) John Corvino - The Gay Moralist

I don't give a **** about your so called journey because it is 100% irrelevant.

And I still want to see the curriculum vitae of that so called Biblical scholar you think is an expert. One would thing that a guy who holds an actual degree would know what that means, but apparently you think me asking for it is a personal attack.

By the way that other great source for info on what the Bible says is a philosopher. Philosophers specialize in rationalizing things that have no evidence to support them, which does make him an expert on your position.

Not only that but pastors have to be licensed in my state and every church doesn't have to accept his license. If the church says, "no" then it doesn't matter where he went to school or what he studied and there are a lot of churches that will still say, "no" because they are based on what God says and couldn't care a hoot about what some man says.

 

[PoliticalTorch]

Since this thread is supposed to be about what the Bile says, and you are resorting to quoting experts on everything but the Bible, I suggest that you need to rethink your position that you know what the Bible says.

The problem is not with what the Bible says. I don't have a problem with that. My problem stems from when people start taking Scripture out of context and molding it to fit what they want it to say such as to be able to discriminate against Gay and Lesbian people. They claim the Bible says it's alright and that this and that passage supports discrimination and prejudice but it does not. It actually speaks to other things and not what they want it to be saying. End of story.