fyi

[LOIE]

I’ve seen several recent posts about the fact that black people in Africa sold their own people into slavery. It’s been cited as a basis to declare that black people are also at fault and are therefore just as bad as the white people who enslaved them. I am currently reading “Slaves In The Family,” by Edward Ball. In chapter 7 he gives the most thorough explanation of this I have ever heard.

“The coast of Loango, included a port settlement, Cabinda. The Royal African Company, which brought slaves to Charleston, made the Loango coast its trading base, so much so that the company’s records from the 1720s show that all of its ships going to central Africa during that time listed Cabinda as a destination.

Whites had long ago given up making raids themselves and instead operated forts on the coast known as “factories.” These were heavily armed buying centers to which black slave-handlers delivered their merchandise in exchange for guns, rum, and fabric. The captives brought by the black middlemen to the factories had previously been held by chiefs and headmen farther interior, away from the coast. These chiefs rounded up victims in several ways – by staging raids on villages for the purpose of getting prisoners of war, by punishing people in debt through sale into slavery, and sometimes by selling members of their own tribe for personal profit. With this involvement at the source of the capture business, slavery became a shared venture.

Forced labor was practiced in West Africa before the Europeans began to carry people off, but it was not plantation slavery like that in America. West African slavery consisted of the subjugation of whole villages by invading chiefdoms, which led to arrangements that resembled the vassal societies of feudal Europe. As it was in medieval England, the vanquished were required to make oaths of obedience to a piece of land and to work it, giving tribute to the lords in services and crops but holding on to personal identity. By contrast, American slavery meant the denuding of individuals of all rights and property, one person at a time.

In the Asante kingdom of southern Nigeria, for example, a slave could own property, own a slave him or herself, intermarry with the kin of the ruling family, and be an heir to his or her master – none of which rights were held by captive American blacks. When the Europeans arrived on the African coast, this patriarchal system became rapidly more harsh, and the pace and methods of slave capture were sharpened to suit white demand.”

I have believed and am now even more convinced that American slavery was its own evil, not to be compared to or blamed on anyone else.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

1.) Portuguese, and Spaniards both started the Atlantic Slave Trade, and took the most Black slaves out of Europe too.

2.) Some Black slaves taken would have otherwise been sacrificed by African tribes as POWs.

3.) The Black slave population in the U.S.A, grew faster than Europe's population.
So, it doesn't seem that Black slaves had it quite so bad for that time period as you think.

 

[Godboy]

I’ve seen several recent posts about the fact that black people in Africa sold their own people into slavery. It’s been cited as a basis to declare that black people are also at fault and are therefore just as bad as the white people who enslaved them. I am currently reading “Slaves In The Family,” by Edward Ball. In chapter 7 he gives the most thorough explanation of this I have ever heard.

“The coast of Loango, included a port settlement, Cabinda. The Royal African Company, which brought slaves to Charleston, made the Loango coast its trading base, so much so that the company’s records from the 1720s show that all of its ships going to central Africa during that time listed Cabinda as a destination.

Whites had long ago given up making raids themselves and instead operated forts on the coast known as “factories.” These were heavily armed buying centers to which black slave-handlers delivered their merchandise in exchange for guns, rum, and fabric. The captives brought by the black middlemen to the factories had previously been held by chiefs and headmen farther interior, away from the coast. These chiefs rounded up victims in several ways – by staging raids on villages for the purpose of getting prisoners of war, by punishing people in debt through sale into slavery, and sometimes by selling members of their own tribe for personal profit. With this involvement at the source of the capture business, slavery became a shared venture.

Forced labor was practiced in West Africa before the Europeans began to carry people off, but it was not plantation slavery like that in America. West African slavery consisted of the subjugation of whole villages by invading chiefdoms, which led to arrangements that resembled the vassal societies of feudal Europe. As it was in medieval England, the vanquished were required to make oaths of obedience to a piece of land and to work it, giving tribute to the lords in services and crops but holding on to personal identity. By contrast, American slavery meant the denuding of individuals of all rights and property, one person at a time.

In the Asante kingdom of southern Nigeria, for example, a slave could own property, own a slave him or herself, intermarry with the kin of the ruling family, and be an heir to his or her master – none of which rights were held by captive American blacks. When the Europeans arrived on the African coast, this patriarchal system became rapidly more harsh, and the pace and methods of slave capture were sharpened to suit white demand.”

I have believed and am now even more convinced that American slavery was its own evil, not to be compared to or blamed on anyone else.

Slavery is something that all cultures participated in and every culture has been enslaved. The blame lies with all of humanity.

However, if we are going to be fair about it, it should be pointed out that the US only participated in slavery for a relatively short period. Meanwhile, Africa has been doing it for thousands of years and in 2017, the only place on earth where slavery stll exists is.... Africa.

If you are going to point your finger, point it at Africans. They are still doing it, so thats where you should be focusing your attention.

 

[Gracie]

Even today, albinos in africa have their arms whacked off or are outright killed because some medicine man thinks there is magic in that child. Babies. Toddlers. Most don't even live to see their teens.

Yes, blacks did sell their own. From wars, from inter tribal feuds, etc. Europeans bought what was sold and what was sold was blacks selling blacks. So this determination to change history, Delores, because you happen to be married to a black man and you are white, is not going to change history.

And they haven't changed much, nor ever will. They need to blame someone...so why not white skinned people for the fallacy of their own transgressions? There is no excuse today for what is happening. Enough excuses! Blacks that make something of themselves and try to get out of the hood/ghetto and succeed are rebuffed by their own kind. History shows that as well. And, blacks even owned blacks in the south. But..that's all whitey's fault, isn't it?

 

[Gracie]

Albinism is more common in sub-Saharan Africa than elsewhere in the world. Superstitions about the condition are rife, especially in Malawi and neighboring Tanzania and Mozambique. Some believe that having sex with an albino woman can cure HIV, which puts albino women at particular risk for rape. Others believe that the bones of albino people contain gold, or have medicinal or even magical properties. That demand, stemming from a ritual medicine revival in Malawi, is fueling the spate of murders by gangs that, allegedly, can make as much as $75,000 selling a "full set" of albino body parts, according to the International Federation of the Red Cross.

"Their bones are believed to be sold to practitioners of traditional medicine in Malawi and Mozambique for use in charms and magical potions in the belief that they bring wealth and good luck," Amnesty said. "The macabre trade is also fueled by a belief that bones of people with albinism contain gold."

Albinos are being killed in record numbers for their body parts

Now...you were talking about whities being the bad guy, right?

 

[Gracie]

How about some more history, eh?

The Story of Africa| BBC World Service

GROWING RICH WITH SLAVERY
ROYALTY
In the early 18th century, Kings of Dahomey (known today as Benin) became big players in the slave trade, waging a bitter war on their neighbours, resulting in the capture of 10,000, including another important slave trader, the King of Whydah. King Tegbesu made £250,000 a year selling people into slavery in 1750. King Gezo said in the 1840's he would do anything the British wanted him to do apart from giving up slave trade:

"The slave trade is the ruling principle of my people. It is the source and the glory of their wealth…the mother lulls the child to sleep with notes of triumph over an enemy reduced to slavery…"

 

[Gracie]

How about some more history:

The position was endorsed by Henry Bonsu, a British-born broadcaster of Ghanaian descent who examined the issue in Ghana for a radio documentary. He said some chiefs had accepted responsibility and sought atonement by visiting Liverpool and the United States.

"I interviewed a chief who acknowledged there was collaboration and that without that involvement we wouldn't have seen human trafficking on an industrial scale," said Bonsu, the co-founder of digital station Colourful Radio.

"An apology in Nigeria might be helpful because the chiefs did some terrible things and abetted a major crime."

The non-government organisation Africa Human Right Heritage, based in Accra, Ghana, supports the campaign for an apology. Baffour Anning, its chief executive, said: "I certainly agree with the Nigeria Civil Rights Congress that the traditional leaders should render an apology for their role in the inhuman slavery administration." He said it would accord with the UN's position on human rights.

But the issue was not a high priority for most African citizens, according to Bonsu. "In my experience it's mainly the African diaspora who want an apology. People aren't milling around Lagos or Accra moaning about why chiefs don't apologise. They are more concerned about the everyday and why they still have bad governance."

Fred Swaniker, the founder of the African Leadership Academy, said: "I'm not sure whether an apology is needed, but it would be worth looking at and acknowledging the role Africa did play in the slave trade. Someone had to find the slaves and bring them before the Europeans."

African chiefs urged to apologise for slave trade

 

[Gracie]

And one more. Great read. DO try, unless you are still going to battle for your own sense of..whatever the heck it is.

Many black apologists and their white enablers will outright deny that Africans sold Africans into slavery. The always interesting Nation of Islam argues that these treacherous go-betweens weren’t truly “African” anyway—they were instead Portuguese Jewish half-breeds known as lancados who’d deliberately interbred with indigenous Africans in order to swindle and kidnap them before handing them over to Jewish slave traders who’d shlep them to the Americas.

To many others for whom the overwhelming evidence of African collaboration in the slave trade becomes impossible to deny, they’ll leap through flaming poodle hoops trying to make excuses. They’ll allege that African slavery was more benign than all other forms…or that Africans who sold other Africans to Islamic and European slavers had no idea how brutally the victims would be treated…or that they didn’t consider one another “black” but rather enemies from warring tribes, as if that makes it any better ethically…or that it was only a handful of African Judases and Uncle Toms who sold their continental kin into New World bondage and was not in any way an established, officially mandated, and integral part of several sub-Saharan economies.

Nearly all modern historians agree that the scenario depicted by Alex Haley in Roots—that of white raiders penetrating the African interior to rout African villages for slaves—is fraudulent. Instead, European slave traders nearly always bought slaves from African vendors at coastal markets. We hear much about the brutal “Middle Passage” across the Atlantic Ocean, but almost never about the estimated 10 million or so indigenous Africans who perished while being marched to the sea in chains and yokes by their African captors.

We don’t hear that according to Boston University’s Linda Heywood and John Thornton, about 90% of Africans transported to the New World had initially been enslaved by other Africans. We don’t hear about Tippu Tip, who was once a world-famous black slave trader in Zanzibar. And we certainly don’t hear much about how Barack Obama—who has no ancestral ties to African slaves in America—is descended from the Luo peoples, who routinely captured other Africans in war and sold them into slavery.

But when the Transatlantic Slave Trade was still active, what did African blacks and their American descendants have to say? Glad you asked:

“…I must own, to the shame of my own countrymen, that I was first kidnapped and betrayed by some of my own complexion, who were the first cause of my exile and slavery…If there were no buyers there would be no sellers.”
—African abolitionist Ottobah Cugoano (1757-1791)

“The savage chiefs of the western coasts of Africa, who for ages have been accustomed to selling their captives into bondage and pocketing the ready cash for them, will not more readily accept our moral and economical ideas than the slave traders of Maryland and Virginia….We are, therefore, less inclined to go to Africa to work against the slave trade than to stay here to work against it.”
—Frederick Douglass

And here’s what several prominent modern African leaders have to say about the subject:


“African chiefs were the ones waging war on each other and capturing their own people and selling them. If anyone should apologize, it should be the African chiefs. We still have those traitors here even today.”
—Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni, 1998



“I want to apologize for the role my ancestors played in the slave trade….I knew one day I wanted to come to this land and ask forgiveness of my black brothers and sisters. I wanted to cross the ocean to see the land where my ancestors suffered.”
—King Kpoto-Zounme Hakpon III of Benin to a black audience in Alabama, 2013

“We cannot continue to blame the white men, as Africans, particularly the traditional rulers, are not blameless….In view of the fact that the Americans and Europe have accepted the cruelty of their roles and have forcefully apologised, it would be logical, reasonable and humbling if African traditional rulers…[can] accept blame and formally apologise to the descendants of the victims of their collaborative and exploitative slave trade.”
—Civil Rights Congress of Nigeria, 2009

“I believe there is a great psychic shadow over Africa, and it has much to do with our guilt and denial of our role in the slave trade. We too are blameworthy in what was essentially one of the most heinous crimes in human history.”
—Former Ghanaian diplomat to the UN Kofi Awoonor, 1994



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Did Africans Sell Africans Into Slavery? Let’s Ask Some Africans

 

[Gracie]

And in closing..there were plenty of european slaves as well. And Hebrew. And native american. And indian. And asian. I don't see any of them whining about it. They moved on..made something of themselves. Went to school. Didn't have numerous "baby daddies". Didn't blame someone else for what they experienced. Including my own family, who were poor when they first stepped into the Americas from Germany, Ireland, Scotland, England. They came...they conquered, they persevered. Blacks today mostly sit around the hood and complain..or shoot each other.

 

[Eloy]

1.) Portuguese, and Spaniards both started the Atlantic Slave Trade, and took the most Black slaves out of Europe too.

2.) Some Black slaves taken would have otherwise been sacrificed by African tribes as POWs.

3.) The Black slave population in the U.S.A, grew faster than Europe's population.
So, it doesn't seem that Black slaves had it quite so bad for that time period as you think.

Your post is false; The Spanish did not begin the trans-Atlantic slave trade. All the major European powers were involved in this enterprise, but by the early 18th century, England became the world's leading slave trading power. It's estimated that English ships were responsible for the forced transportation of at least 2-3 million Africans in that century.

So dominant were English ships and merchants that they carried away African captives not only to English colonies in North America and the Caribbean but even to the colonies of their main economic rivals, the French and Spanish, as well as to others.

The Spanish were the first European country to ban slavery while the descendants of the English in the USA continued slavery until they had a war to stop it between 1861 and 1865.

 

[Cossack1483]

The first legal slave holder in the US was a negro. It took White ingenuity and common sense to free these critters. Now what?

 

[Eloy]

The first legal slave holder in the US was a negro. It took White ingenuity and common sense to free these critters. Now what?

People are not "criters" and many Whites died to preserve slavery in the southern states of the USA.

 

[WinterBorn]

I’ve seen several recent posts about the fact that black people in Africa sold their own people into slavery. It’s been cited as a basis to declare that black people are also at fault and are therefore just as bad as the white people who enslaved them. I am currently reading “Slaves In The Family,” by Edward Ball. In chapter 7 he gives the most thorough explanation of this I have ever heard.

“The coast of Loango, included a port settlement, Cabinda. The Royal African Company, which brought slaves to Charleston, made the Loango coast its trading base, so much so that the company’s records from the 1720s show that all of its ships going to central Africa during that time listed Cabinda as a destination.

Whites had long ago given up making raids themselves and instead operated forts on the coast known as “factories.” These were heavily armed buying centers to which black slave-handlers delivered their merchandise in exchange for guns, rum, and fabric. The captives brought by the black middlemen to the factories had previously been held by chiefs and headmen farther interior, away from the coast. These chiefs rounded up victims in several ways – by staging raids on villages for the purpose of getting prisoners of war, by punishing people in debt through sale into slavery, and sometimes by selling members of their own tribe for personal profit. With this involvement at the source of the capture business, slavery became a shared venture.

Forced labor was practiced in West Africa before the Europeans began to carry people off, but it was not plantation slavery like that in America. West African slavery consisted of the subjugation of whole villages by invading chiefdoms, which led to arrangements that resembled the vassal societies of feudal Europe. As it was in medieval England, the vanquished were required to make oaths of obedience to a piece of land and to work it, giving tribute to the lords in services and crops but holding on to personal identity. By contrast, American slavery meant the denuding of individuals of all rights and property, one person at a time.

In the Asante kingdom of southern Nigeria, for example, a slave could own property, own a slave him or herself, intermarry with the kin of the ruling family, and be an heir to his or her master – none of which rights were held by captive American blacks. When the Europeans arrived on the African coast, this patriarchal system became rapidly more harsh, and the pace and methods of slave capture were sharpened to suit white demand.”

I have believed and am now even more convinced that American slavery was its own evil, not to be compared to or blamed on anyone else.

Let me see if I have this right. You think, because slaves in Africa were allowed to own other slaves or marry, that their slavery was ok? You think that being owned as property is fine, if you get to own someone too?

It was all evil. No major culture is innocent.

 

[IM2]

The first legal slave holder in the US was a negro. It took White ingenuity and common sense to free these critters. Now what?

No the first legal slave owner in the US was not black. Hugh Gywnn made John Punch a slave some 15 years before Anthony Johnson purchased his wife. Second blacks did not make slavery legal here. Whites did.

 

[Cossack1483]

While negros bartered each other ; the joo was more than happy to oblige and provide trans oceanic brokerage. Only 3% of Caucasian American households have ever owned a negro. Too expensive and not cost effective. As usual inefficient. Not only immoral but unprofitable. For all practical purposes the evil was dismissed by European Americans in 1865. Slavery is still being practiced on the african continent. And , Yes , the jew is still profiteering from both White and colored indentured servitude.

 

[Cossack1483]

The first legal slave holder in the US was a negro. It took White ingenuity and common sense to free these critters. Now what?

No the first legal slave owner in the US was not black. Hugh Gywnn made John Punch a slave some 15 years before Anthony Johnson purchased his wife. Second blacks did not make slavery legal here. Whites did.

Links? Historical documentation shows negros were more than willing to sell each other to servitude.

Anthony Johnson? I thought that you meant DeMarcus Washington.

 

[IM2]

I’ve seen several recent posts about the fact that black people in Africa sold their own people into slavery. It’s been cited as a basis to declare that black people are also at fault and are therefore just as bad as the white people who enslaved them. I am currently reading “Slaves In The Family,” by Edward Ball. In chapter 7 he gives the most thorough explanation of this I have ever heard.

“The coast of Loango, included a port settlement, Cabinda. The Royal African Company, which brought slaves to Charleston, made the Loango coast its trading base, so much so that the company’s records from the 1720s show that all of its ships going to central Africa during that time listed Cabinda as a destination.

Whites had long ago given up making raids themselves and instead operated forts on the coast known as “factories.” These were heavily armed buying centers to which black slave-handlers delivered their merchandise in exchange for guns, rum, and fabric. The captives brought by the black middlemen to the factories had previously been held by chiefs and headmen farther interior, away from the coast. These chiefs rounded up victims in several ways – by staging raids on villages for the purpose of getting prisoners of war, by punishing people in debt through sale into slavery, and sometimes by selling members of their own tribe for personal profit. With this involvement at the source of the capture business, slavery became a shared venture.

Forced labor was practiced in West Africa before the Europeans began to carry people off, but it was not plantation slavery like that in America. West African slavery consisted of the subjugation of whole villages by invading chiefdoms, which led to arrangements that resembled the vassal societies of feudal Europe. As it was in medieval England, the vanquished were required to make oaths of obedience to a piece of land and to work it, giving tribute to the lords in services and crops but holding on to personal identity. By contrast, American slavery meant the denuding of individuals of all rights and property, one person at a time.

In the Asante kingdom of southern Nigeria, for example, a slave could own property, own a slave him or herself, intermarry with the kin of the ruling family, and be an heir to his or her master – none of which rights were held by captive American blacks. When the Europeans arrived on the African coast, this patriarchal system became rapidly more harsh, and the pace and methods of slave capture were sharpened to suit white demand.”

I have believed and am now even more convinced that American slavery was its own evil, not to be compared to or blamed on anyone else.

Let me see if I have this right. You think, because slaves in Africa were allowed to own other slaves or marry, that their slavery was ok? You think that being owned as property is fine, if you get to own someone too?

It was all evil. No major culture is innocent.

Sometimes it's just better to not try explaining things to certain types of white people.

The discussion of slavery in this manner might have validity if when slavery had ended everyone got equal rights instead of apartheid in America. Blacks did not create that.

 

[IM2]

The first legal slave holder in the US was a negro. It took White ingenuity and common sense to free these critters. Now what?

No the first legal slave owner in the US was not black. Hugh Gywnn made John Punch a slave some 15 years before Anthony Johnson purchased his wife. Second blacks did not make slavery legal here. Whites did.

Links? Historical documentation shows negros were more than willing to sell each other to servitude.

Anthony Johnson? I thought that you meant DeMarcus Washington.

Historical documentation shows no such thing.

John Punch (fl. 1630s, living 1640) was an enslaved African who lived in the Colony of Virginia during the seventeenth century.[2][3] In July 1640, the Virginia Governor's Council sentenced him to serve for the remainder of his life as punishment for running away to Maryland. In contrast, two European men who ran away with him were sentenced to longer indentures but not the permanent loss of their freedom. For this reason, historians consider John Punch the "first official slave in the English colonies,"and his case as the "first legal sanctioning of lifelong slavery in the Chesapeake." Historians also consider this to be one of the first legal distinctions between Europeans and Africans made in the colony, and a key milestone in the development of the institution of slavery in the United States.

John Punch (slave) - Wikipedia

Another historian goes back even further.

In the Spanish Caribbean colonies, some of which later became English and later British colonies (the Acts of Union between the English and Scottish kingdoms were not passed until 1707, and so it is technically anachronistic to refer to British colonies before 1707), native peoples perished readily as slaves. Hence, Spanish King Ferdinand II, he who sponsored Columbus's voyage to the New World, declared that colonists in the American sugar trade should import African slaves who had already been traded by the Portuguese to Spain. The year was 1501

.
- See more at: John Punch Wasn't the First Slave in America -- Just the First Slave in the English Colonies

Now the Spanish from Europe were white so lets get that one straight right now.

As for Anthony Johnson,

On 24 July 1651, he acquired 250 acres (100 ha) of land under the headright system by buying the contracts of five indentured servants, one of whom was his son Richard Johnson

Anthony Johnson (colonist) - Wikipedia

Anthony Johnson wasn’t the first slave owner in America, legal or otherwise. He wasn’t the first in North America, he wasn’t the first in the original 13 colonies, he wasn’t the first in the US, he wasn’t the first made a slave owner by a court of law.

http://www.beingfactual.com/first-slave-owner-african-american/

You're wrong.

 

[IM2]

While negros bartered each other ; the joo was more than happy to oblige and provide trans oceanic brokerage. Only 3% of Caucasian American households have ever owned a negro. Too expensive and not cost effective. As usual inefficient. Not only immoral but unprofitable. For all practical purposes the evil was dismissed by European Americans in 1865. Slavery is still being practiced on the african continent. And , Yes , the jew is still profiteering from both White and colored indentured servitude.

This is why you do not try explaining such things to ignorant low rent white trash.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

1.) Portuguese, and Spaniards both started the Atlantic Slave Trade, and took the most Black slaves out of Europe too.

2.) Some Black slaves taken would have otherwise been sacrificed by African tribes as POWs.

3.) The Black slave population in the U.S.A, grew faster than Europe's population.
So, it doesn't seem that Black slaves had it quite so bad for that time period as you think.

Your post is false; The Spanish did not begin the trans-Atlantic slave trade. All the major European powers were involved in this enterprise, but by the early 18th century, England became the world's leading slave trading power. It's estimated that English ships were responsible for the forced transportation of at least 2-3 million Africans in that century.

So dominant were English ships and merchants that they carried away African captives not only to English colonies in North America and the Caribbean but even to the colonies of their main economic rivals, the French and Spanish, as well as to others.

The Spanish were the first European country to ban slavery while the descendants of the English in the USA continued slavery until they had a war to stop it between 1861 and 1865.

Funny how you left out the Portuguese, who were the biggest slave traders, and who ended slavery in Brazil after the U.S.A had.